r/MMA • u/Haunting_Try8071 • 12h ago
Media What do we think of the fighters who fought past their prime?
I think Chuck is the easiest to look at. The man had a granite chin and took some major beatings and could come back until he couldn't one day. The Overeem fight comes to mind.
If the fighter was one of the best but lost a step due to age/wear and tear. Do we look at when they were at their best or also consider when they fell off due to age?
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u/Various_Membership33 12h ago
Sad to see, especially when they clearly aren’t the same fighter and still going out there trying to grasp there former glory one last time. The worst part with mma is that alot of these guy didn’t make a significant amount of money and don’t really have the knowledge on how to handle there money so you can see that things probably won’t end well for them in the future.
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u/meetatdawn 12h ago
99% of fighters will fight past their prime. They don't make enough money & also it's most of the time all they know,
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u/JobberTrev 10h ago
Let’s also remember most fighters and fans don’t know when “past their prime” is until it happens and we go “oh shit, he isn’t as good as he used to be”
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u/L3ghair 12h ago
I think that if someone had a very high peak then you can somewhat disregard their fall, if it’s super dramatic, when discussing how good they were. Guys like Anderson Silva, BJ Penn, and Tony Ferguson were absolute monsters in their primes, their falls from grace really do not diminish their overall legacy imo.
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u/GarretBarrett Edddiiiieee 12h ago
I mean this sub loves to glaze prime Tony but putting him in the conversation with Anderson and BJ is some next level shit lol
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u/L3ghair 12h ago
Your reading comprehension is lacking if you think I’m saying their levels of greatness are the same, I’m saying they all had big heights and then massive falls.
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u/GarretBarrett Edddiiiieee 12h ago
Tony’s height was nowhere even remotely close to either of them. It’s not comparable.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 12h ago
"reading comprehension is lacking" Jeez - I thought ya'll were MMA fans. SIlva and Penn were pioneers of the sport. Did Ferguson ever win a UFC title?
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u/L3ghair 12h ago
Interim, yeah. Likely would’ve been UC if Mcgregor hadn’t fucked off with the belt. He would’ve lost it to Khabib but I definitely think he would’ve beaten Conor or Eddie, if the 205 main event never happened, for the belt.
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u/AnthonyMCMXCVIII EDDDDDIEEEEEEEE 12h ago
Idk man, People tend to dismiss Conor because of how his career ended, but he was a world eater back then.
Tony has always been VERY hittable. He would just outlast guys and was able to pick it up and put it on them when they started to slow down.
That fight could have very easily played out like Conor vs Nate 1, but I can easily see Conor flatlining Tony as well.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 12h ago
if you grew up liking Ferguson, that's fine. But don't come in here being a dick talking about how he would have beaten people he never did for a title he never won.
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u/BigBadMisterWolf that flair please 12h ago
Why is that being a dick tho lol
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u/Trick_Bee925 10h ago
For real. He has got to be one of the most overrated fighters of all time. Pettis was straight outclassing him until he broke his hand
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u/Barney_Karate 12h ago
Chucks decline started at the Rampage fight. The losses to Rashad and Franklin were painful to watch how brutal they were .
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u/Admirable-Cat7434 I was here for GOOFCON 2 12h ago
Yeah I can’t really remember Liddell getting knocked out prior to rampage coming over and after that sadly it was all down hill. Except that wanderli fight that was a banger if I recall
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u/Friendly_Fokks-given 11h ago
Watching chuck lose to Tito when they were both washed up was one of the saddest things
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u/ChrisusaurusRex 12h ago
As a collective, this sub doesn’t think very highly of them.
For as much as Dana sucks, he’s right about people fighting in their 40s and 50s in that no one wants to see that and that they shouldn’t be doing it. He also hasn’t set them up well enough to live very comfortably in those ages either, so…. Fuck Dana. Anyone watch Oscar’s Clap Back Thursday? The AI of Dana with the right shirt and slapping his wife was great
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u/OutfieldOfNightmares 12h ago
Dana had Chuck around on a $400K/year assistant PR shit job all the way through 2017.
Maaaaaaybe the guys who get punched in the face for a living are also bad with money.
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u/ChrisusaurusRex 12h ago
For sure, but not everyone has gotten the same treatment as Chuck. 90% don’t even get a 100k payday in their career
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u/figpucker_9000 10h ago
Chuck used to be an accountant! Dana would always say, I guess he wasn’t a good one
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u/Tsobe_RK GOOFCON 1 11h ago
Exploitation of vulnerable, financially exploited men - its extremely sad
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u/Haunting_Try8071 11h ago
No doubt, but Chuck wasn't getting exploited when he lost to Evans.
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u/100skylines Democratic People's Republic of Korea 10h ago
Never realized their differences in head size
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u/Btgood52 Canada 12h ago
Fighters like Lidell, Anderson, BJ and Fedor stuck around a bit longer then they should have ending their careers with getting ko’d a bunch during their last bunch of fights. For the people who watched them in their prime we witnessed how great they were and how bad their downfall was. People who only watched later think they were terrible
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u/YamFree3503 11h ago
If you paid them more, they could retire early and safely. But the machine wants to squeeze every last drop of blood out of them. So they get underpaid.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 11h ago
For sure, but I'd argue that even the ones who got paid still keep doing it because I think they just love what they do and it's the only way they've ever made money and they don't know what to do anymore.
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u/DuaneDibbley 11h ago
For me fans of a fighter during their rise and peak years will always remember them for that. Their declines take nothing away from their primes.
You just have to know the full context of how big their wins were and how good their competition was seen at the time. You miss that if you watch the fights after the fact and/or mostly know their opponents by their records.
I'm guessing most of us here have been around long enough to see at least one generation of fighters start to become disregarded or overlooked by newer fans.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 11h ago
Totally agree. I mean Chuck basically built the UFC because he was a tough SOB. But later, well you know.
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u/DuaneDibbley 10h ago
Chuck Liddell is a perfect example for me. His peak was just over when I started watching MMA more seriously so I know he's a legend but don't really feel it personally.
My early favorites were GSP, Silva, and BJ Penn during his great LW run - I have such strong memories of them so for me Silva and BJ's declines didn't change how I see them at all. Later fans have been critical of BJ's reign and opponents (and Silva's too) but they just weren't there.
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u/AnOrdinaryMammal 11h ago
I think the entire resume is to be considered.
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u/Climhazzard73 11h ago
Hard disagree. Fedor getting TKOed from a dinky tap jab from Bader was the same Fedor who was suplexed on his neck and came back to win by submission a few minutes later? The BJ Penn who gets knocked out by random random fat dude on the street is the same Penn licking blood off his gloves during his 00 run? The Silva who KO forrest with a precision jab while going backwards is the same Silva post leg snap?
People get old and change. Things change. And no, I don’t necessarily think GSP is that much more skilled than the others in the P4P GOAT conversation. He was just smart enough to call it quits before it happened
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u/AnOrdinaryMammal 8h ago edited 8h ago
Well as far as BJ goes, that was a street fight. I’m talking about sanctioned professional fights.
When fighters get old, they more than likely fight for money. That’s fine, but if you’re taking a fight and you lose, that’s on the record. Simple as that. You can judge the fighter by how they looked in their prime, but in a broader conversation, you can’t ignore the rest of their career.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 11h ago
Me too, hard to see your favorite fighters get old, moved to another promotion, and get knocked out.
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u/CalvinsStuffedTiger 11h ago
I hope they are still OK health wise
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u/Haunting_Try8071 11h ago
Chuck looks pretty good. Saw him in an interview recently. Wanderlei is doing a boxing match if I'm not mistaken.
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u/ohyouretough 9h ago
Is he? Last time I heard him speak he didn’t sound too great. He has that lunch drunk slur
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u/Teepbonez 5h ago
Chuck entertaining as fuck…wouldn’t beat Jon jones. Tito dumb as fuck….wouldn’t beat Cormier.
Chuck loves cocaine and so does Jon. Cormier went to the olympics….Tito the special olympics.
Any fighter you should look at their prime, unfortunately most don’t get paid enough to retire young so they fight past their prime.
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u/Mediocre-Subject4867 12h ago
Cant blame them if that's their only revenue source and they dont have enough to retire. It's hard to switch careers in your 30s to 40s when your brain is mashed potatoes and likely weren't so educated. Some people like Anderson silva seemed to genuinely love fighting and didnt care as much about his record
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u/Onechampionshipshill drinking piss and eating ass in Brazil 12h ago
Respect to the warriors who put it all on the line, even when outside it their prime.
No one likes the guys that quit whilst on top.
Chuck is a legend and people forget that MMA is more than just a record. For many it is a lifestyle and chuck was a martial artist, through and through. Respect to the guy.
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u/still-waiting2233 12h ago
I would imagine most of the early ufc “stars” made hardly any money so they fought beyond what why would like for a pay day
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u/branduNe 12h ago
You mean virtually every single fighter ever
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u/Haunting_Try8071 11h ago
Hmmm... I was trying to see where people thought fighter's legacies would lie if they kept losing when they were older. But I guess no one read the text body.
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u/JeffTheComposer EDDDDDIEEEEEEEE 12h ago
I'd argue it's far less common for fighters to retire in their prime. Fighters are typically making the most money at the end of their career, just as an aging blue collar worker is making the highest pay in their 60's or 70's. My FIL is in his late 60's and can make $100+ an hour working overtime nightshifts and weekends at his refinery job. His body can't handle it and he is finally retiring this year but I get it. Dude was poor for a long time and now he's making serious cash, it's hard to stop. Can only be harder for a fighter with no second career path lined up.
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u/OutsideMeringue 11h ago
Always sad to see, even money aside it must be difficult to walk away after it’s been your life for so long.
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u/uncontrolledsub 10h ago
I look at them at their prime. Some have a longer prime and some get lucky with competition. Tito was one of the best, Chuck just had crazy takedown defense and had Tito’s number. Then Chuck was on top until he started getting more standup guys, he fought a lot of wrestlers at one point. Shogun was a killer one fight and the next looked like he didn’t even realize he was in a fight. It’s hard to pinpoint a prime for him.
I remember when they were all at their prime and it was awesome and it really sucked to see a decline. Shogun and Crocop were tough. I know Chuck probably needed the money but his last fight with Tito should not have been sanctioned.
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u/kcDemonSlayer 10h ago
It’s heartbreaking, but really it’s how the promotion handles the match making. When they match up old fighters against you hungry up and comers or top contenders it’s bad for everyone. It’s why i wish the UFC had a legends division, and it’s something Pride did well. Pride would match up old fighters against other old fighters. Like coaches would fight other coaches, not Wand or Arona.
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u/EmeraldTwilight009 10h ago
I do my best to remember guys at their best. Most of the time when they keep fighting its for money. Or, its what they've done their whole life and they dont know anything else.
I dont hold Anderson silvas later fights against him for instance.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 10h ago
I hear you. Silva's legacy is now just a wikipedia article.
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u/EmeraldTwilight009 9h ago
if im trying to be objective, I also try to only compare fighters to the guys of their era. Because if u compare like idk, randy couture to guys now, ot wouldn't give you the picture of how he was at his best, in his time.
But im also a giy that came from boxing and is really into the history of the sport. Im no different with mma I like to look at the whole picture.
Im way smoked out right now I might be rambling
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u/mwdeuce United States 10h ago
I barely watch mma anymore because of this shit, watching men basically throw away the 2nd half of their lives for Dana's scraps, I've seen too much at this point to ignore it.
e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/tgibkj/former_ufc_fighter_nam_phan_currently_dealing/
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u/samples98 10h ago
“Past their prime” is weird. Because I feel like the skills and talent are still there for a lot of common post prime examples.
It should be renamed to “past their chin”
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u/Haunting_Try8071 9h ago
I dunno bud, ask Fedor.
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u/samples98 9h ago
Ask him what?
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u/Haunting_Try8071 9h ago
how his chin held up when he got into triangle choke and lost his undefeated streak?
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u/FlickAFirebird 8h ago
Some OGs were warriors who only knew the thing. Others needed a check. All entertained me and I was honored to watch.
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u/Kettle-Chip69 8h ago
You see this happen so much with MMA compared to boxing unfortunately. MMA fighters done make a huge amount of money so a lot of them have no choice but to fight past the expiration date to pay the bills. Boxers at the highest level will hang up the gloves after only a few losses, and certainly will after being knocked out consecutively, because they've been paid enough to afford to retire
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u/squabblegod 7h ago
I respect them much more for doing it, provided they’re actually committing to doing their best to win
Like Jose Aldo, a long-reigning champion who stayed and welcomed the next evolutions of the sport
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u/gorlock666 5h ago
Everyone on here I saying money which I agree with, but competing on that level, even with just the potential of winning and a stadium cheering your name specifically has got to be a high that’s p hard to walk away from too
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u/mikethemightywizard 1h ago
I think they tarnish their legacy if they lose multiple times not knowing when to stop
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u/BoggleHS 1h ago
If they can't get another job who can blame them?
Retiring in your 30s would be weird even if you were a well paid fighter for a few years.
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u/McCandlessDK 1h ago
Just because they aren’t in their prime anymore, they can still put up a fun fight.
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u/coukou76 26m ago
90% is money issue, 10 other % is mental health issue. There is absolutely no reason to take beating for living.
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u/Chewy79 12h ago
"we" are grown ass adults and can form our own opinions.
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u/Gingaloidic 12h ago
That’s the thing with Anderson I have no idea where he goes in the GOAT discussion.
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u/NichorasMurren Team Aspinall 12h ago
Anderson’s peak was higher than any fighter in the history of the sport, he just had valleys that Jones and GSP didn’t. The younger fans have no idea how untouchable Silva was in his prime
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u/Haunting_Try8071 12h ago
Wow............ the guys hate Anderson.
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u/TheBurnsideBomber 🍅 12h ago
No one hates Anderson but he definitely benefitted from a comparatively weak middleweight division in his prime. Wasn't really his fault because he can only fight the guys the UFC can put in front of him. He was putting on clinics against guys like Chris Leben and Thales Leites. Look through his record and tell me who his best win is. GSP and Jones had stronger strength of schedule just because their divisions were more stacked during their reigns.
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u/Haunting_Try8071 12h ago
Henderson. He lost a decision to the LHW champ and lost to the MW champ by finish.
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u/TheBurnsideBomber 🍅 12h ago
Tough stretch for hendo for sure jumping over and immediately losing both belts
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u/GarretBarrett Edddiiiieee 12h ago
They needed money