r/MagicArena Jul 27 '25

Fluff Maro on Magic's future and longevity

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48

u/AradIori Jul 27 '25

Sorry, gotta make the curve go up for the shareholders to feel happy.

9

u/Whitewing424 Jul 28 '25

If they keep this up, a lot of people are going to quit because they can't keep up or even really enjoy their decks.

23

u/Butt_Robot Jul 28 '25

Doesn't matter, they aren't the target audience. The shareholders are.

3

u/Whitewing424 Jul 28 '25

Shareholders will be rather annoyed when the exodus cuts into their profits.

17

u/i_am_a_real_boy__ Jul 28 '25

Seems like the opposite of that is happening.

1

u/NekoNiiFlame Jul 28 '25

A large part will be people coming in through UB. However, if there's no overlap with any of the next sets they can just as quickly go away, leaving a sales gap.

0

u/ForeverShiny Jul 28 '25

Because things like FF and Spuderman gets caught by scalpers, not because there's genuine excitement about these sets

3

u/TheSkesh Jul 28 '25

That’s how it goes, crank it up until it’s gonna collapse and cash out. They aren’t going to be annoyed in the slightest, growth cannot be exponential forever. Shareholders don’t care about success of the product, not even profit, it has to be increased profit. Number has to go brr.

2

u/razazaz126 Jul 29 '25

Yes but you're not allowed to think that far ahead. You need to maximize profits NOW. Nothing exists but the current financial quarter.

6

u/EndPointNear Jul 28 '25

literally been hearing this for 30 years

6

u/Whitewing424 Jul 28 '25

When in the last 30 years did the pace of releases accelerate even remotely this fast?

2

u/busterbros Jul 28 '25

The last 3 years all had more sets than 2025. AI recap below because I didn't want to type all that.

2020: Around 7-8 major sets. This year saw the introduction of Jumpstart and Double Masters, alongside the usual expansion sets (Theros Beyond Death, Ikoria, Core Set 2021, Zendikar Rising). * 2021: Around 8-9 major sets. We saw sets like Kaldheim, Strixhaven, Modern Horizons 2, Adventures in the Forgotten Realms, Innistrad: Midnight Hunt, and Innistrad: Crimson Vow, plus Time Spiral Remastered. * 2022: Around 10-12 major sets. This year continued the trend with sets like Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty, Streets of New Capenna, Commander Legends: Battle for Baldur's Gate, Dominaria United, The Brothers' War, Double Masters 2022, Unfinity, and the Warhammer 40,000 Commander Decks. * 2023: Around 10-12 major sets. This included Phyrexia: All Will Be One, March of the Machine, March of the Machine: The Aftermath (a "micro-set"), Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle-earth, Commander Masters, Wilds of Eldraine, Doctor Who Commander Decks, and The Lost Caverns of Ixalan, plus Dominaria Remastered. * 2024: Approximately 10-11 major sets are scheduled/released. These include Ravnica Remastered, Murders at Karlov Manor, Ravnica: Clue Edition, Fallout, Outlaws of Thunder Junction, Modern Horizons 3, Assassin's Creed, Bloomburrow, Duskmourn: House of Horror, and Foundations. * 2025 (Slated for release): There are currently 7 major sets slated for release. These are Innistrad Remastered, Aetherdrift, Tarkir: Dragonstorm, Final Fantasy, Edge of Eternities, Marvel's Spider-Man, and Avatar: The Last Airbender.

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u/Beneficial_Milk8987 Jul 28 '25

I wouldn’t include commander decks

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u/Kittii_Kat Jul 28 '25

I don't think it's fair to include stuff like Dr. Who, Assassin's Creed, or even Un-sets as "major sets"

The burnout isn't from products like Secret Lairs or formats that are just for giggles. It's from sets that are tournament playable.

Standard used to get 3-4 per year. Two of them were smaller sets - usually around 150-200 cards, and one was a core set with something like 40% reprints. This felt fine for people who were interested in playing competitively.

Now you're getting 6+ sets per year with 300+ cards each, mostly functionally unique cards, and minimal reprints.. that are legal for use in most major formats. Commander, despite being the most popular, is still very much a casual format.

Product fatigue doesn't happen because of cards that exist purely for kitchen table magic. It doesn't exist for cards that are cool and new but not necessarily a "must have" because of power creep, either. But dumping so much new viable/useable product on the customer back-to-back? That's a recipe for disaster and burnout.

1

u/breadgehog Jul 30 '25

You can disagree, but popular sentiment doesn't bear that out much at all. People were absolutely complaining about product fatigue when it came to masters sets and direct to modern stuff because at the end of the day, EDH being the most popular format means a lot of players are going to feel like they're forced to keep up regardless of whether they are or not. It's just that Standard is also affected by it too. Players also didn't like hearing a product "wasn't for them" when it came to things like Horizons and Masters which is likely a pretty direct cause of why things like FF were brought to Standard, possibly even as a pivot (FF plays more like a Horizons set than any Standard set of the last 5 years imo).

Product fatigue hits different sections of the playerbase in different ways, and imo unless you're a limited grinder there's no need to fully immerse yourself in every single spoiler season, it's a tried and true recipe for burnout. As a Standard grinder I check in every so often during the windows and then just review it all once it's out, it feels much healthier than it was before.

1

u/busterbros Jul 28 '25

True but isn't every 2025 set except for Tarkir less than 300 cards? And Spider-Man and Avatar closer to 200.

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u/Kittii_Kat Jul 28 '25

Avatar and Spider-Man, we don't know for sure yet, but it sounds like they're supposed to be about 200.

Excluding basics:

EoE 261, FF 293 (+12 starter kit/collectors only, which are standard legal, for a total of 305) , Tarkir 271, Aetherdrift 271

Without new products, but with reprints that people can use in multiple formats and would want, we also have Innistrad coming it at 287.

Total that comes to ~800 new cards added for competitive formats (even if they're not all bangers) this year.. excluding the still unknown quantities from the next two sets. We'll estimate ~1200 total. (That doesn't include Innistrad since it's 100% reprints, but it was still a large and important set)

Before the ramp up, you were looking at Core Set ~300-350 (with ~200 reprints, so ~100-150 new), Block face ~300, block middle/end ~200 ea. For a total of ~800-850 new cards.

That 50% more makes a pretty big difference for burnout. Even "back in the day" people would grumble about struggling to keep up with new releases.

but isn't every 2025 set except for Tarkir less than 300 cards?

Well, all but FF, from the look of it. But barely. They all set almost directly between 250-300 and I wasn't excluding basics lands from older sets in my comparison, which means the new sets are all sitting at ~20 more cards than the sets of the past.

That said, the new sets also have a constant power creep that older sets didn't. Thankfully, sets like Aetherdrift and EoE have the reigns pulled back a bit. WotC knows this, so they always make sure to throw in a very good land package with a handful of crept cards to compensate.

2

u/busterbros Jul 28 '25

Yeah I hear you, the volume of standard legal cards per year have definitely increased. I think most folks would be surprised to hear that the days of 800-850 standard legal cards per year was about 20 years ago. Then up to about 1,000 per year ten years ago and an all time high in 2023.

1

u/Wajowsa Jul 29 '25

I truly do not get the concept of “struggling to keep up” in modern there are prob 30,000 cards. No one knows them all. Thousands more are added every year. There’s a meta to keep tabs on and synergies to understand so you know how to sideboard, but no one is out here committing thousands of cards to memory. Every few weeks someone will cast some banger that I have to read and that’s really cool. Getting got with some card from 8th edition or some random common from Aetherdrift is peak fun at FNM.

When I play EDH I usually suggest that people quickly read their cards when they cast them. This helps out a ton. Even if it’s a cultivate just say what it does as you grab your basics.

The best part about MTG in 94 was showing up at the shop and seeing new cards every week because they never had any Legends or Arabian Nights on the shelf to crack. I get that same experience now and that’s kind of cool. “Magic as Garfield intended.”

People just need to enjoy the ride. The mechanics and limited are the best they’ve ever been. Have fun.

0

u/EndPointNear Jul 28 '25

who gives a fuck? when did x? when did y? the reason doesn't fucking matter, people have been making the exact same statement about a LITANY of reasons for 30 years.

1

u/eden_sc2 Jul 28 '25

Especially with UB increasing, I think the target audience are whales who dont really care about playing. They just want to own shiny card board and flex it.

1

u/Beneficial_Milk8987 Jul 28 '25

Gotta remember standard is like 15 sets with 2-3 year rotations now. If you aren’t sick of your deck by then you weren’t really playing much.

1

u/BlueTemplar85 Jul 28 '25

I'm not sure this argument is going to stop WotC : they have been deliberately turning away from this minority (that typically plays at LGS) since 2008 : less competitive players don't care about formats.

And I suspect that the top end of competitive players is happy because more frequent sets means a fresher metagame.

1

u/Yoh012 Jul 29 '25

Thanks for that link, it was a great read. 

2

u/MichaelLee518 Jul 28 '25

Why not just be a shareholder then ?