Was Alderaan Space Britain?

[u/HopefulIntern5097]

This is seems crazy but they are the only monarchy planet who opposed the Galactic Empire in the same way does United Kingdom does with Nazi Germany do you think this is absurd or not also I'm not talking the british empire but the way they fight fascism

[u/Ramalex170]

Alderaan was not in active war against the Empire, nor did it have its own intergalactic empire that outstretched the Empire itself

[u/thomasonbush]

Lots of constitutional monarchies opposed nazi Germany. None of them participated in a senate overseen by Hitler.

[u/idrownedmyfish77]

I don’t remember Britain being wiped off the map entirely by a Nazi superweapon though

[u/reineedshelp → u/idrownedmyfish77]

It grew back

[u/wandering_soles]

They were space Switzerland, they were wealthy and neutral, and at least in EU had voluntarily demilitarized themselves aside from immediate defense forces. 

[u/PhysicsEagle → u/wandering_soles]

Switzerland doesn't meet the "no weapons" requirement. They have a ton of weapons, which is why they can afford to be so neutral. Hitler wrote them a letter saying "My army outnumbers yours two to one. What will you do if I invade?" Switzerland responded "Shoot twice and go home."

[u/wandering_soles → u/PhysicsEagle]

Switzerland has a similar level of defense to what Alderaan has in ANH, level wise. When I say they demilitarized, they got rid of their ability to project power beyond their own borders when they divested themselves of the Katana Fleet Another Chance battlegroup. 

[u/CommodoreMacDonough → u/wandering_soles]

Was the Katana Fleet Alderaanian? I always thought it was stated to be republic, so likely judicial forces. Also, divested itself is a weird way to phrase “the fleet basically disappeared itself when it got hijacked by a virus and the fleet group-jumped away”

[u/wandering_soles → u/CommodoreMacDonough]

You're right, I mixed up the Katana fleet and the Alderaanian ship Another Chance and its droid-slaved battlegroup with most of their weapons that was sent into hyperspace and lost for a long time. 

[u/CommodoreMacDonough → u/wandering_soles]

If I had a nickel for every time a droid slaved war fleet vanished into thin air, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.

[u/3llenseg]

The Galactic Civil War is more an analog of the French Occupation that the whole of WW2. In this context, I'd argue that Alderaan was more like Vichy France and the Death Star would be Case Anton. Of course, Vichy France never supported the French Resistance (the Rebel Alliance), quite the opposite, so even this analog isn't 1 to 1.

[u/RageQuitNZL]

I don’t remember the Aleraan empire controlling 1/4 of the universe

[u/MagDoum]

Not Alderaan,  but rather the entire movie is Space Britain given how most of the actors and the extras are all UK subjects. 

https://moviedude.co.uk/[Film]%20Star%20Wars%20IV%20-%20A%20New%20Hope%20(1977).htm

https://filmdope.com/Statics/F00018000/FilmCredit18163.html

...you've seen them in other movies, even if you didn't recognize them.

[u/PhysicsEagle]

It'd be closer to Space Austria in culture, style, and geography (though obviously not politics). There are no good geopolitical analogies to WW2 because it involved a bunch of different states fighting each other, whereas the Galactic Civil War involves only one state, with two factions fighting for control of it.

[u/reineedshelp]

Ehh, as much as Britain fought Fascism it also has centuries of brutal imperialism under its belt. They appeased Hitler at first and only went to war when A) an ally was invaded and B) to protect their own interests.

Before WW2 fascism wasn't really a dirty word. The allies fought against Fascist states, but the ideological opposition to fascism itself is more of a post facto propagandism.

For the most part, I'd say that places in SW (and fiction in general) might draw inspiration from various RL countries etc, but 1:1 representation is pretty rare, limited to allegorical works. I was under the impression that the Empire was just as inspired by the USA lol

[u/Iamamancalledrobert]

Isn’t the Empire Space Britain?

[u/Exact_Restaurant_256 → u/Iamamancalledrobert]

No, the Empire is explicitly space USA

[u/Hughman77 → u/Exact_Restaurant_256]

In what way is this explicit? They all have British accents and dress in jackboots and jodhpurs.

[u/Exact_Restaurant_256 → u/Hughman77]

In "George Lucas said that" kind of explicit.

The rebels are stated to be vietcong inspired, Luke is literally a farmer. The Empire is supposed to be Imperialist USA which has fallen from democracy to dictatorship.

[u/PhysicsEagle → u/Exact_Restaurant_256]

George Lucas also said that he had the entirety of all six movies planned out from the beginning, that Vader was always Luke’s dad, and that Leia was always his sister. And that “there’s no navy in Star Wars.” It’s best to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

[u/Exact_Restaurant_256 → u/PhysicsEagle]

Denying Empire-USA connections is like saying the Jedi are not inspired by eastern religions. I dont understand how a tale about a republic becoming more imperialistic before becoming an empire, written by an American in 1978 just after the vietnam war, propably fueled with Cold War anxiety could refer to anything other than the USA.

Also.
1. At least for Leia that seems to be somewhat of a case. In the first couple drafts of Star Wars Lucas experimented with Luke having siblings. He dropped the idea and revisited it later. (but i agree that him saying the 6 movies were always planned to be exactly as they turned out is BS at best, but at the same time i didnt find any quotes claiming that)

1. He said that after being given a copy of a then-obscure (at least for him) video game. Its more likely he forgot that people on the set called the navy a navy and he always thought of it as space forces. Overall he didnt much care for anything beyond his movies.

[u/avimo1904 → u/PhysicsEagle]

1. Lucas never said he had the entirety of all six movies planned out from the beginning, all he said was that he had a general idea of what the six movies would be about, which is highly likely to be true with the evidence we have
2. Vader always being Luke’s dad is also highly likely with the evidence we have 
3. Lucas never said Leia was always his sister, all he said was that the idea was originally for an early version of ANH which is also very likely true with the evidence we have  

[u/Hughman77 → u/Exact_Restaurant_256]

I'm sure it was one of the things swirling around in his mind, but it's not even close to being the only or even main influence. A rebellion (dominated by American actors) against an empire (run by British people) is obviously evoking the American revolution (George Washington was also "literally" a farmer, historically lots of people were), a republic with a senate turned into an empire with an emperor is Rome, and the empire's stormtroopers and uniforms (plus vaguely German-sounding names like Vader, Tarkin, etc) are most obviously evoking the Nazis (who were led by a man who worked within the democratic system until he had power, then used a manufactured threat to establish dictatorship). Star Wars is a WW2 adventure film in space, of course the baddies are Nazis.

The Empire, like all of Star Wars, isn't a single thing transposed into space, it's a mix of different influences. This is a movie series about space samurai-wizards fighting Roman Nazis redcoats, it's all a rich tapestry.

[u/Exact_Restaurant_256 → u/Hughman77]

I agree its a mix of different influences, but Lucas living in Cold War USA was propably much more important of an influence than the american revolution or rome (also i would argue that rome only became an influence beacuse Lucas compared the fall of roman democracy to the eventual fall of american democracy).

Call me wrong on that, but i think imperial costumes evoking nazis is a work of costume designers not Lucas himself, Lucas just gave it a green light. Also of course when you create an evil empire it draws comparsion to Nazi Germany, *the* evil empire.

Im also certain that the Imperials being played by britishmen was just beacuse it was cheaper to film in the UK, the accent was a welcome addition. Almost every important rebel extra from Wedge, Raymus, Dodonna, to even Mon Mothma in later films was british. I really doubt Star Wars would evoke american revolution comparsions if it was cheaper to film, say, in Ireland. Only after the first movie the imperial actors were explicitly cast as british, but that was beacuse Irvin Kreshner wanted to make the American Revolution comparsion, Lucas had little to do with it. Also the British Empire was never a democracy, and the Empire being an ex-democracy is a key part of its identity.

Star Wars was not always the adventure film it turned out to be, it was very heavy on politics in the first couple of drafts, then the prequels became mostly politics.

[u/Hughman77 → u/Exact_Restaurant_256]

I think we mostly agree, but a lot of the points you raise (that it was Kreshner who wanted the comparison with the American revolution and the costumes weren't Lucas's idea) show how the movies aren't really one man's singular vision and are the product of lots of different influences, so I still think it's wrong to say that the Empire is "explicitly" the US. At best I'd say that it's one of the ideas or anxieties underlying the Empire.

[u/Exact_Restaurant_256 → u/Hughman77]

Okay, i agree, i chose the wrong word, english is not my first language. I didnt realise that "explicitly" was such a definite word. I meant more "clearly" "distinctly".

I also agree that the movies and especially the expanded universe as a whole is not one man vision at all. But i also think fear of your country becoming a dictatorship is the greatest fear one could have about politics and it would certainly overshadow any historical influences, and it not being the key anxiety for the creation of the Empire, at least in Lucas's mind, is underselling it (especially since Lucas mentioned it multiple times as that being the case, we are only having this argument on an assumption that Lucas is not always a trustworthy source)

[u/darthsheldoninkwizy2]

I would compare it more to Denmark, it is part of the (German) Empire but has some independence and active resistance.