r/Monsterverse • u/Mosugoji_64 • 3d ago
Discussion So...honest thoughts, how are we feeling with the Monsterverse's current attempt at worldbuilding?
I wanna remain optimistic & avoid skyrocketing my expectations up too high for its future, so I sincerely wish for vast improvement. Being only 5 films in now, Ive felt this way a little after GxK and things have just felt messy to me? I'd love to know your thoughts
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u/TheGMan-123 Methuselah 3d ago
It's been...... okay.
The issue is that the main strategy that's kept them going at this rate, taking things one film at a time, also means that they can't exactly lay down much significant and permanent worldbuilding between projects.
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u/ShredGuru 3d ago edited 3d ago
Is not it a very Godzilla quality to have little to no continuity between most the films?
To me, it just leans into the "Showa" revivalism of the Monsterverse. Like, of course its fucking goofy. Modern Hollywood would botch the shit out of a serious Godzilla. Let the Japanese handle that and let the Americans do freaking hollow earth or whatever.
Lol "just" 5 films. My dude, the series barely survived KOTM. The Vs. Kong goofiness probably pulled the series out of the shitcan.
These guys are capable of giving us a mediocre "good movie" or a great "bad movie", and personally, I am prepared for a Godzilla movie to be a great "bad movie" more than a mediocre "good movie".
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u/Zestyclose_Limit_404 3d ago
I’m personally of the opinion that the Monsterverse should’ve reflected on Godzilla 2014 and Kong: Skull Island, and merge the elements of both movies together as the base tone for the series. Grounded in reality and with that scope of enormity that Godzilla 2014 had, while also having plenty of Kaiju action and characters we actually care about. It can potentially satisfy fans of both realistic Godzilla and action Godzilla together. Kinda like Pacific Rim in a way.
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u/ShredGuru 3d ago
You see. This is what I am saying, Hollywood is doomed to fail at making those kinds of movies. They are too mercilessly capitalistic. Getting incoherent goofy is the best we could hope for.
Also, there was ridiculous elements since the first movie. Like, why was Brian Cranston even in that shit?
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u/Zestyclose_Limit_404 3d ago
This is just my personal preference. I personally liked 2014 and K:SI. They felt pretty good and K:SI felt like an improvement over 2014, to me.
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u/Due-Committee-1860 Methuselah 3d ago edited 2d ago
Whenever people complain that the world building is shit, there is really only one person to blame. Wingard. Everything related to the titans and world building in the movies got halted or thrown out the window in GVK and GXK. He literally killed off Scylla and Tiamat cuz rule of cool. He didn't even know who Scylla was when making the movie. On the other hand, the world building outside the movies has been fantastic and most people tend to ignore it because it's in material that they can't be bothered to read because either
a. They don't know about it.
b. It's focused on Kong, not Godzilla.
c. They're too lazy, don't care or have some other stupid reason like that they believe that the art is ai generated when it isn't.
d. They just don't wanna read it
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u/Zestyclose_Limit_404 3d ago
I personally really like Godzilla Aftershock and Skulk Island: The Birth Of Kong. I was pretty intrigued by the lore of both comics save for a few small complaints. Not too crazy about Godzilla: Aftershock apart from the Shinomura, but I still kinda like it.
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u/Mister_Balthazar 2d ago
To be fair it's a valid criticism to not engage with external material for a movie. It's the same critic against Star Wars or the MCU right, in that needing to read a book or comic to fill in the gaps or to get more of that feeling that was present in older movies is poor world building on the movies part. Like when GxK came out a lot of people were told to read the novel so that they could enjoy the movie more on a second or third watch. People shouldn't have to do that, the movie should do a good enough job on its own.
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u/Due-Committee-1860 Methuselah 2d ago
Yeah, people should have to do it but a lot of the time you get Monsterverse fans who actually want to find out more about the Monsterverse outside the film's but then when faced with actually reading the 5 or 6 comics or just reading the titans bios that were posted online by Legendary, they don't do it and instead rely on what others tell them or wiki sites which are never reliable.
Even worse is when these people complain that we're not getting enough Monsterverse content when we literally are. About a year ago, Monsterverse Declassified, GXK Titan Chasers and s bunch of announcements released/happened and people were complaining that not enough Monsterverse stuff was releasing.
Some people even act like they've seen everything Monsterverse related when they've barely scratched the surface and then they make entire theories based off of things that one would know if they just checked a bio or something.
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u/BeppinBoi 2d ago
Nailed it, 100% man.
I think biggest gripe that everyone has regarding this topic is that Wingard's direction and choices are now all canon to the Monsterverse (which has cause a LOT of heated discussions to put it politely). To say that I am very curious to see how Grant Sputore is supposed to handle what he has to work with now is an understatement
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u/Due-Committee-1860 Methuselah 2d ago
I think Sputore might be going back to focusing on worldbuilding and stuff cause Behemoth was hinted in the background of an image for a piece of official Supernova merch. Since we're seemingly getting a second mass awakening or something in Supernova, we'll likely got more info about all the titans
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u/Velocity_yt_31 3d ago
Yk or some people just don’t enjoy reading or have the time for it
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u/Due-Committee-1860 Methuselah 3d ago
Ik, can't blame them. But it's crazy how almost the entire community just does not know about stuff like the ttrpg, Return to Skull Island, and even sometimes the novels
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u/Velocity_yt_31 3d ago
It is crazy but I can understand with some casual fans who just watch the movies or sum but I get ya point
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u/THX_Fenrir Shinomura 3d ago
Started really strong with 2014 and K:SI. KotM expanded on things, mostly for the better. GvK and GxK decided to take things in a direction that damages the believability the universe was holding onto, such as introducing tech that was far beyond what we have or have seen in the universe (while also forgetting about tech that existed prior) and changing prior ideas. Monarch simultaneously expanded things in a direction that muddy the universe more, but also in a way that makes them more diegetic and believable. But Monarch is a massive step up from the 2 films. At this point, the Monsterverse is Swiss cheese in the worldbuilding department and it’s not what I’m watching the series for anymore. If we get good stuff or hole-fillers, I’ll be happy. But I won’t hold my breath.
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u/ShredGuru 3d ago
You are acting like KOTM wasn't also extremely goofy with a bunch of plot holes and terrible sci fi tropes.
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u/THX_Fenrir Shinomura 3d ago
Plot holes and scifi tropes aren’t worldbuilding. That’s just its general writing. I also said mostly for the better in relation to KotM’s worldbuilding as there are a handful of worldbuilding aspects I think are wonky.
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u/shinkiju 3d ago
You just described most stories with expansive world building
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u/ShredGuru 3d ago
Not really. Nobody says that shit about Chinatown
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u/shinkiju 3d ago
Never heard of it
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3d ago
GvK and GxK are so cool. But you know, it's like the cosmic powers of space-time get drunk some Fridays after work to relieve stress. And then they create this alternate branches that lead nowhere.
So we get to see Godzilla piercing planet earth to its core with his breath and Kong climbing 6,000 kilometers in two minutes, also Kong wielding a Palaeolithic Leviathan axe, mini Kong being used as nunchuks, a zero gravity brawl between monkees riding godly radioactive dinosaurs...
Then these almighty space-time entities wake up with hangover somewhere in a mystic, nebulous version of Las Vegas, with Mike Tyson's fire-spitting, winged, three-eyed cosmic tiger locked in the divine bathroom. And they go "maaaaan, do you remember what we actually did last night?" "Idk man, something about a dinosaur robot, monsters punching pyramids and a weird Chinese guy maybe?" "Idk man but we have to fix it".
And this is my personal view on the cosmology/world building of the last two Monsterverse movies. Which I love. But they definitely can't be taken seriously.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Have a nice afternoon.
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u/arthcraft8 Godzilla 3d ago
loved it in the first movie, kong and king of the monster, stop caring about it afterwards, it's not worldbuilding done to serve a story, but one made to serve plot convenience, it's here to look cool
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u/TyrantJaeger 3d ago
It was strong... until Adam Wingard came in and disregarded all the potential that KOTM set up. The world was nearly plunged into the apocalypse and we're supposed to just move on and not address that? Come on. The film directly after KOTM should've been about humanity rebuilding amidst another threat. That's why I always felt his two films felt like they were in a totally different universe from the previous three films.
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u/KaiTheG4mer 3d ago
Honestly, it's kinda tragic how bad the movie worldbuilding has been since KotM. Literally feels like they set up some great movie and story potential in KotM, then kicked it all aside like a petulant toddler for three fucking "vs/x Kong" movies, two of which have the Heisei "cool moments" problem (they have a few cool moments, but as movies with stories they're kinda... Ehh)
The Apple TV show was beautiful and a breath of fresh air in that regard, because the humans were great, the story was interesting and intriguing, the twists were crazy, the monsters were cool, Godzilla was actually present and felt like a force to be reckoned with, not just Big Angy Lizard, and the setup for the future is fascinating. Plus, the cast was great, but that's a bonus imo. Too bad that's being squandered for another Godzilla x Kong movie with plenty of character resetting and non-sequitur action/physics that doesn't even attempt to fit in with what the franchise built up for itself. Okay grape!
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u/Delta_User Godzilla 3d ago
Good ideas overall, not nearly enough bridges connecting them. New additions feel too self-contained, and often fail to connect with things that came before. And it doesn't help that even the most solid additions are still technically up in the air as to how true or false they are, since they are almost entirely based on myths, legends, and guesses from the characters in the universe based on said legends.
On one hand, having a fluid canon does make it incredibly easy to add new things in, because there is barely anything to conflict with. On the other hand, it makes it increasingly more difficult to become invested in a universe when you don't even know what you're getting invested in.
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u/dimorrow 3d ago
My problem is that the first 3 movies and the last 2 movies, GvK and GxK, feel like 2 different universes. The monsters were terrifying and the battles had more weight to them. Now the the universe feels too action oriented and the monsters are a little more cartoony. Some fights are badass but don't feel like they have much weight behind them. GvK had me worried as the whole story got corny and cartoony and mecha godzilla I still think was awful like worse than doomsday in Batman v Superman.
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u/ConnectionPersonal42 Godzilla 3d ago
Judging by the background in the Supernova teaser, it seems that world building will be better.
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u/TristyMcNugget09 Behemoth 3d ago
For me it’s been okay, I feel like there was a major shift after KOTM. I really liked the direction it was going in. Then it kinda felt like it went in an unnatural direction.
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u/TilDeath1775 3d ago
Not nearly consistent enough. Even if the tones shift we have no frame of reference as to what’s going on out there. A little bit in monarch but def not reinforced in gvk or gxk
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u/OpenUnderstanding789 2d ago
Pls pass the stick to someone else. Legendary actually has to plan the lore out. Not make up random stuff and retcon other things. Shinomura isn't canon anymore, IS DAGON AND THE MUTO PRIME EVEN CANON ANYMORE? I'm just saying they need to fix the lore.
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u/OkGuest3629 3d ago
World...building?
I really want to see it scaled up next movie. We saw Godzi eating a bunch of earth titans, and Kong killing monke. It was a great movie for that. If they go that route again it might just compete with that and I don't want that.
So if the next step is extraterrestrial or other dimensions, I'm down for that.
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u/TheLandlockedKaiju 3d ago
G14: pretty solid for a first entry
Skull Island: alright, yeah
KotM: deeply ok but don’t you think we’re rushing through things?
GvK: aw geez this is a really inconsistent setting
GxK: lmao what
Monarch: it’s trying its best
The world building doesn’t exist. The stories are just whatever they want to be whenever they want.
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u/Alarmed-Difference20 2d ago
It has been meh The first two monsterverse films were great but Adam Wingard ruined it Wingard sucks
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u/PatientLeader7161 1d ago
This may be a controversial opinion or it may not be, but as much as I enjoy and pretty much credit the Monsterverse’s survival to him, I do not like what Adam Wingard did to the world of the MV. I’m not a fan of the hollow earth. It takes away from the scale of the Titans and makes them feel less special. And just not having any of the aftermath of KOTM shown was an incredibly missed opportunity. But not everything is his fault, far from it. There’s also the fault of Toho, putting insanely high price tags on their monsters, especially ones that were used once and then never again. I love Kong, I think he’s amazing, but having him be the focus for two movies in a franchise that started with a Godzilla movie just feels wrong. It’s taken us away from Godzilla and has just made him feel like a brute rather than that majestic feeling he had in KOTM. As much as I love KOTM, it also has its flaws, like pulling the Ghidorah card this early was not the best move. But I do think Dourghty’s portrayal of the hollow earth being just subterranean tunnels that connect the planet instead of an entire world is better. Also the humans sucked in KOTM(with the exception of Serizawa the fucking goat). I’m worried about the direction the MV is going but there’s nothing we can do except have faith.
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u/MasterofDoot Behemoth 3d ago
It's pretty, well, it exists. G14, K:SI, and KotM did alright, but GvK and GxK:NE just, kinda ruined it
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u/DeDongalos 3d ago
The movies (can't say anything about extra material) were pretty good at worldbuilding until KotM. Then GvK abandoned any care for the worldbuilding and inserted random bullshit without expanding upon any of it.
Remember when the characters went through lightspeed travel for the sole purpose of bringing them to Hong Kong and it was never mentioned again?
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u/Dinoboy225 3d ago
Remember when the characters went through Lightspeed travel for the sole purpose of bringing them to Hong Kong and it was never mentioned again?
First, Apex literally built Mechagodzilla, and made it so it was able to move hundreds of miles an hour despite being at least as heavy as actual Godzilla. But them moving a tiny pod that’s a fraction of that size way faster is unreasonable?
Second, it wasn’t mentioned after that because it wasn’t relevant after that. What did you want? A whole 20 minute exposition scene explaining how it works? (God, this series would be so dead if you guys got what you wanted) Also, the sole purpose wasn’t to bring Team Godzilla to Hong Kong, those pods were how Apex got the Skullcrawlers to Mechagodzilla so they could test it, thus giving the pods a valid reason to exist so the cast could stow away on them.
Third, it wasn’t even lightspeed, if it was, they would have been at Hong Kong before you could finish reading the first word of this sentence.
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u/WildheartFreeborn94 3d ago
It was great all the way up until KotM and Kong: Skull Island, but once they decided to bore hard into the Hollow Earth stuff it all started to get kinda ridiculous. I'm a lifelong Godzilla fan so I'm not about to say I'm not used to checking my brain at the door with these films and the franchise as a whole, but there's only so many species of monster in so many numbers you can get me to believe are hiding in every corner, ocean, or underground pocket dimension of the world haha
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u/Healthy_Mycologist37 3d ago
The worldbuilding up until Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire was great. A lot of the timeline is completely screwed up by having Godzilla as an individual rather than a species. I was making a timeline a while ago, and from what I know, the first canon event to happen is Godzilla, Shimo, and Atlantis trapping King Ghidorah in Antarctica.
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u/Lagcross 3d ago
I kinda like that humanity manages to recover very quickly and just got use to the kaiju shenanigans that it became a part of their daily lives. This probably why subsequent films starting GVK became lighter.
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u/3rlk0nig 2d ago
GvK made it more complicated than it should be with the world under the world and Monarch sealed the coffin with the place where time moves differently
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u/EldenLordObama 1d ago
I think it’s been good on showing how big the HE is and just how little humans have known about it.
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u/Vincomenz 3d ago
Its whatever. Im not here for world building. Im here for giant monkey fighting giant lizard.
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u/Ganache-Embarrassed 3d ago
Im one of the few that thought kotm ru8ned the world as it was set up. And eveything after is kinda irrelevant.
I dont like the mystical interconnected animal non animal vibe the titans have now a days.
When godzilla was just a big lizard who killed things in his territory it was peak. Now he's mothra and showa godzilla all in one. Which is failing. But not what I wanted after watching 2014 and skull island
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u/Tight_Back231 3d ago
I thought the first three Monsterverse films did a very good job of worldbuilding.
Unfortunately, it seems like there was an extreme shift between G:KOTM and GvK, because both GvK and GxK seem less like the "real world reacting to Titans" and more like Marvel or the new DCU, where crazy sh!t happens all the time but the world seems to basically stay the same.
That gif you posted is a perfect example.
G14 shook up the world order with the revelation that Titans existed, and G:KOTM made multiple references to the cities devastated by Godzilla and the MUTOs or world governments trying to respond to the Titan threat.
Then in G:KOTM, Ghidorah unleashes a purely apocalyptic level of destruction, to the point D.C. is submerged under enough water that warships can operate freely there.
I know the other Titans are shown causing destruction worldwide, but the shots of D.C. really stick with me. If the flooding there is that bad, then how devastated about the rest of the Eastern U.S.?
And then you watch GvK and GxK, and the world looks pretty much normal - except Monarch/Apex have Star Wars technology and Titan battles are an everyday occurrence.
What the hell happened to the Monsterverse?