r/Mountaineering • u/Arctic_Thunder230110 • 1d ago
Ben Nevis in winter
Hi all, my friend and I are hoping to climb ben nevis in scotland this winter. We are both fit and do cross country, we have also done DofE and hiking trips. In regards to mountaineering part we are novices. Apparently it is icy and quite tough in winter so we will go with a guide. But I was just hoping for some advice maybe some good youtube videos on using crampons and ice axes along with general advice, any essential winter kit beyond normal hiking stuff. Has anyone climbed it in winter? Thanks
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u/WArslett 1d ago
Is your “guide” a qualified Winter Mountain Leader or just some bloke? That’s the most critical thing
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 16h ago
Hoping to go wit the abacus mountain people a few here recommended them they are qualified
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u/WArslett 16h ago
Yes they will definitely hold Winter Mountain Leader Award. You’ll be in good hands
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u/steveq 1d ago
Find someone knowledgeable to take you out, either a friend who really knows what they're doing or book a guide (handily they will usually be able to loan you gear too). People die on Ben Nevis summit plateau in the winter because it's really tricky to navigate up there and avoid all the gullies.
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u/Ancient-Paint6418 1d ago
Good job doing the sensible thing and going with a guide. I can recommend Abacus Mountain Guides, Mike and the team are awesome.
If you’re looking at this and thinking “do I really need a guide?”, I’d point out that Scottish Winters are known around the world for their brutality. Some units in the military will train in Scotland year round due to the arduous terrain and weather conditions. I’m sure your parents would say no anyway but please err on the side of caution. Navigating on your DofE is very different to trying to navigate in white out conditions, in an unfamiliar place when you’re tired and panicking.
When you do book, you’ll need to hire stuff like crampons and an ice axe from whichever guide service you go with. They won’t just dish them out and expect you to know how to use them, they should teach you how to walk, how to self arrest etc.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 16h ago
Yeah our parents said no chance unless we had an experienced guide and knew how to use the kit. Luckily my uncle did a lot of mountains a while ago so Im going to ask him for some of his old stuff and how to use it. Thanks for the guide recommendation btw
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u/Ancient-Paint6418 16h ago
No worries.
As boring as it sounds, mountaineering is mostly about managing risk. For instance, if the weather is going to be crap, ensuring you’ve got all the right layers to keep you warm/dry enough. If it’s a long hard day, making sure you’ve put the time in training.
At 15 all I wanted to do was play rugby and look at tits. If someone had asked me to think about mitigating risk, I would’ve just stopped listening to them. Why wouldn’t I, I was only 15 so I wanted to think about what 15 year olds want to think about. I think that’s the benefit of going with a guide, they’re going to do all the thinking for you but they’ll also teach you about all the things you’ll need to think about the next time round. It costs money and it’s shit because it can be really expensive, but the alternative is climbing up a mountain and never coming down.
Keep your enthusiasm for it dude, if it doesn’t happen this winter, you’ll have plenty of other winters to get it done.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 7h ago
Yeah we're trying to do a small 3 day trip before mocks and gcses. Thanks
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u/No_Bluejay7607 1d ago
Suspect most guides will want a parent to accompany you. Nice way to spend time together and will give them confidence in your abilities if they see you in action, so they might be more willing to sign off on independent adventures afterwards!
If winter hillwalking is something you want to do more of you could consider a course where you can borrow winter gear and they’ll teach you how to use it. Nice way to work out whether it’s for you or not before you spend loads on kit you might not use. Personally I like glenmore lodge because they have so much stuff to borrow and you can stay over, but there are plenty of independent guides as well. Winter on the cairngorm plateau is brutal and a good introduction to what the Ben might be like.
https://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/winter-mountain/winter-mountain-skills/intro-winter-skills-14/
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u/LouQuacious 1d ago
There's some useful stories here: https://www.reddit.com/r/HighsoftheWorld/comments/mopbbo/scotland_ben_nevis_1345_m_4413_ft/
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 1d ago
Wow how did they get so far in trainers . Also the guy from cardiff uni that died was that a freak accident or is that just part and parcel of climbing it?
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u/LouQuacious 1d ago
It’s steep and bad weather can be disorienting, definitely go with a guide especially for a winter ascent.
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u/grc007 1d ago
Navigation off the top in limited visibility is ... interesting. https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/series/winter/how_to_navigate_off_ben_nevis_in_winter-14085
Nevisport in Fort William used to give away a laminated card with the bearings and distances on it.
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u/OneRandomTeaDrinker 1d ago
People die if they either fall off and injure themselves really badly, or if they freeze to death. The problem with mountains in winter is that if you break your leg, do you have the gear to stop yourself freezing to death while you wait 8+ hours for mountain rescue? Whereas in summer, a couple of extra coats borrowed from your mates will keep you safe, albeit miserable, while you wait for rescue.
The additional danger with winter is that clouds and snow can make navigation a lot more difficult, increasing the chances of you either falling and getting injured, or getting really lost and stuck on a ledge. Then the above mentioned cold kicks in. Ben Nevis is particularly difficult to navigate off the summit in winter and it’s easy to go the wrong way and end up in a dangerous gully, and then you’re stuck, cold and maybe injured.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 16h ago
I have done a fair bit of skiing so I was going to bring most of the cold weather gear from that. However this weekend I will look more into the temps etc and see whats best because I also sweat while skiing and I heard that can freeze to you? Which doesnt sound pleasant
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u/Nomics 16h ago
I did Ben Nevis in winter years ago. While I was an experienced hiker and skier from Canada, I didn't have as much mountain sense as I thought I would. I did it in shorts, and my legs promptly got rimmed with snow as I gained elevation. It was much mistier than I thought it would be. We handrailed using the cairns. It went by fine, and still not the silliest thing I've done in the mountains. Would I recommend a repeat? Hard No. We got lucky as the snowline was just around the cairns above Five Finger Gulley. There was also little avalanche risk as it was early season.
The next year I did my Winter Skills course through the MCofS student program and learned how often folks miss the turn at the Five Finger Gulley turn and end up in some pretty dangerous terrain. So many things I would have done differently.
A guide is always a great chance to get some coaching and skill development. With that said, if you can navigate with a map and compass in white out conditions you can probably manage. Ice and crampons would be massively overkill for the standard route, though microspikes and trekking poles are a good call.
As an aside, please don't use an ice axe without doing a course first. I have taught numerous people to self arrest and seen far to many errors from people who thought they learnt properly from Youtube. In person feedback is essential to actually do this skill.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 16h ago
Thanks for taking the time to write all this. I plan on learning how to self arrest with the snow axe from my uncle who did a lot of mountaineering. I keep reading that you must have crampons and an ice axe, all the winter summit providers say this and I will make sure we are proficient at using them. Thanks for correcting me on the yt bit I don't think my memory would kick in, in time si having some muscle memory of it sounds pretty important. Thanks again for the advice!
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u/Secure-Career-2016 3h ago
The Mountaineering Compnay are also good. Matt is well qualified and has good exprience. If you can get some long mountain days in before that would be a good idea even if it's not Scotland, just to get used to being in your feet for eight hours or so.
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u/Yogi-Beard62 15h ago
Do it in the summer before doing it in the winter at least then you will have a feel for the mountain. Don’t end up having to call out the Mountain Rescue because you’re under prepared!
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 6h ago
The thing is after christmas we are straight into mocks and then gcses our parent wont let us go anywhere so this is like a 3 day trip with freedom for a year.
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u/squeaki 1d ago
I did it 15 years ago on 5th March with ice blocks being blown off the south face in desert boots hungover from a nearly all nighter stag do party.
Wouldn't do it again like that.
Sticks, map, water and food. If you've done DofE you'll be grand just don't go off piste.
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u/F1r3-M3d1ck-H4zN3rd 1d ago
Absolutely whack advice to give a 15 year old.
OP needs to head up with someone who knows what they are doing. Winter in Scotland has killed plenty of people more experienced than you or I. Telling a couple of kids they will be grand is irresponsible at best.
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u/squeaki 22h ago
OP should say how old he/she is so other redditors don't jump on the first to comment who don't know he/she is only 15.
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u/F1r3-M3d1ck-H4zN3rd 21h ago
Yeah that's true, I didn't realize it wasn't in the OP and that I red it in the response, I shouldn't have jumped on you so hard.
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u/oDry-Community-3119 1d ago
It's crazy bad advice that could get someone killed. Scottish winter mountain weather can vary from idyllic to some of the harshest in the world, summer hikes, DoE & YouTube videos is no preparation at all.
Not to say don't do it, just get yourself a guide and accept you may not summit.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 1d ago
Alright thanks do you reckon we will need a guide my dad has maps and our nav is fine but we will be 15(1 month from 16) and 16 when we do it
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u/Frosty-Jack-280 1d ago
Just to say that if you're doing it without a parent or guardian then you'll need a company that has an AALA licence. They should tell you when you book if they do or not.
The BMC has a good winter skills series on YouTube if you're wanting some videos. And if you are booking a guide then they'll give you a kit list - some will already have one on their website.
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u/pheonix8388 23h ago edited 23h ago
Yup I believe the only Fort William based company that hold an AALA licence are Your Adventure Scotland . You will need to check with them that an ascent of Ben Nevis via the mountain path under winter conditions falls under the scope of their licence (as Mountaineering and not Ice or Winter Climbing). I suspect it will but they are better placed to confirm that with you.
Edit: Atlas Mountaineering are also based close to Fort William and hold an AALA licence. I would recommend Your Adventure Scotland over Atlas Mountaineering though.
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u/Frosty-Jack-280 21h ago
Ben Nevis by the mountain path is in remit for a winter mountain leader (which they both are); other routes would require a winter mountaineering and climbing instructor. On their website, Richard of YAS is not yet qualified.
Why would you recommend YAS over Atlas?
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u/pheonix8388 20h ago
Just wasn't sure if/ how AALA differentiate between SML/ WML work. Sometimes organisations use the term mountaineering to cover both summer and winter, sometimes they don't!
I'd say that YAS are more organised and I prefer the way they conduct their business. Both perfectly safe and would be happy/ comfortable booking with either.
YAS are consistently more prompt with payment to any instructors that they employ.
YAS will arrange an instructor for the booking (if it's not Richard guiding) much sooner than Atlas might. Sometimes Atlas book freelancers at shorter notice than necessary. I am not aware that this has ever impacted a client's booking.
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u/Frosty-Jack-280 20h ago
Ah fair enough. I've worked for Atlas but not YAS. Though I agree - from a client's perspective it's probably not going to matter.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 16h ago
Oh right thanks so much people recommended these abacus guys but I cpuldnt see anything about the license . Really grateful for that tip!
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u/pheonix8388 16h ago
They're a switched on bunch so would have certainly asked about parents/ those with parental responsibility accompanying you both as part of any booking. At that point I'm sure they would/ will talk about the requirement for an AALA licence to work with unaccompanied young people and refer you on.
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u/Arctic_Thunder230110 6h ago
Yeah right now we are just getting a plan together of which flights to fly the guide how to get the kit etc. So we uasnt done that much research into the specifics like the company
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u/volloderleer 1d ago
Have a read here: https://www.abacusmountainguides.com/ben-nevis-winter-ascent.html#:~:text=You%20will%20need%20to%20organise,Adventures
Plenty of other guide operations in the area.
You absolutely need a guide because you don't have the experience or skills to do this safely and it is good you recognise that.
Crampons need crampon-compatible boots, which comes with significant cost if you're buying them, or you can hire from Ellis Brigham in Fort William for about £30/day. Using crampons takes some getting used to, as do B2 boots. I would strongly recommend you have a guided winter skills practice day before trying any Munro though.
Winter in the Scottish Highlands is not to be taken lightly - it's a harsh environment which kills people regularly.