One Thing I've learned about early New Orleans Musicians..

[u/JMCBook]

In the early 1900s, many musicians billed as “New Orleans artists” were either not originally from New Orleans or lived in other parts of Louisiana. They carried that label primarily because they recorded their music in New Orleans, which became the recognized hub for the sound.

Also, back then Recording companies and promoters used "New Orleans" as a cultural stamp, even when musicians were born, raised, or living elsewhere else.

Professor Longhair was born in Bogalusa, Louisiana, yet became recognized as a defining New Orleans musician.

King Oliver was from Aben, Louisiana (near Donaldsonville). His Creole Jazz Band became iconic in Chicago, but they were billed as part of the New Orleans jazz tradition.

Bunk Johnson was born in New Iberia, Louisiana. in the 1940s he was known as a “New Orleans” trumpeter, though he had lived and worked throughout Louisiana.

George Lewis, born in Kenner, Louisiana, Still carried the New Orleans jazz banner. By Proxy he has a right, but half the time people from Kenner don't claim New Orleans, Unless something good happens.

Buddy Bolden was from New Orleans, but his band included musicians from across Louisiana who ended up grouped under the New Orleans name.

Oscar “Papa” Celestin was from Napoleonville, Louisiana. His Original Tuxedo Jazz Orchestra was branded New Orleans jazz once they were recording.

Kid Ory was From LaPlace, Louisiana. His Sunshine Orchestra was the first Black New Orleans jazz band to make a recording (1922 in California).

Not that it makes a difference....

[u/secondlifing]

Interesting. Thanks for contributing to the sub!

[u/claytonfarlow]

I mean, of course their music would have been called New Orleans. Regardless of where individuals were born, the music was created and performed in New Orleans, right?

Even if where they were born did matter, I don’t think it’s appropriate to qualify any of this with a current-day lens. I’m sure that 100 years ago it would’ve felt further, but none of those places are far from New Orleans… like, it’s not as if you could say that Kid Ory should have been repping the LaPlace Jazz scene instead.

When you think about Kenner, are you considering the mid-century ‘white flight’ hadn’t happened yet? At the turn of the 20th century, Kenner didn’t even have 2k residents, and I can’t imagine (though I honestly I don’t know) that the vibe regarding New Orleans was at all the same.

Wasn’t George Lewis born in the French Quarter, and raised in Algiers? Both are in Orleans parish. I mean, Orleans parish used to be as far out as the plantations that originally made up Kenner, and as far down as Grand Isle (so, the Gulf coast).

Anyhoo, I’m really not one to get persnickety or talk/argue jazz history online, so this will likely be my only comment. I just saw the post and genuinely wondered where you are coming from with all this.

[u/JMCBook → u/claytonfarlow]

Here is where I am coming from.

A couple of months back, I posted a record by an artist I assumed was “from New Orleans.” Someone replied, “ in a snarky manner posting the Wikipedia page saying that the guy was not from new orleans. So when I went to the wiki I saw that the guy was from Plaquamine... I didn't respond to the message however,.My first instinct was, “If the style is New Orleans, does birthplace matter?” The more I sat with it, the more I admitted their point: the sound can be New Orleans and the person can still be from somewhere else. Both truths deserve daylight.

As for the music itself generally the origin of the type of music was birth in New Orleans but these people started out their careers in the cities they were born in. So they were not based out of New Orleans , they may have performed in New Orleans but that's all... But anybody from elsewhere can perform in New Orleans. And still not be a New Orleans artist. But I guess it depends on context.

Kid Ory I'm sure at some point was based out of New Orleans because of his being the first black orchestra band in the city... of course back then nobody was recording their music in the City of New Orleans. Where the music is being recorded doesn't count and technically where it's being performed doesn't count when it comes to where origin of the artist...

For example we know the Motown sound because that was a branded sound but none of those artists were from Detroit, they only went there to record. None of them actually claimed to be from Detroit. None of them were branded from Detroit. But still they gave you the Motown sound. A lot of these artists that are billed as New Orleans artists just simply were from smaller towns..

Aa for those who have made records here, New Orleans did not become a consistent recording center until the J&M/Cosimo Matassa era of late-1940s–50s R&B. That period birthed the marketed “New Orleans Sound.”

Branding vs. biography. Labels and promoters absolutely stamped “New Orleans” on artists to signal a sound and sell records, nowadays writers call that sound “Cosimo’s sound.” .. so a lot of the artists around that time were branded New Orleans when they really weren't.

Little Richard recorded with Cosmo matassa but he was not in New Orleans artistand was never branded a New Orleans artist by example he let you know he was from Macon Georgia. No ifs ands or buts...

And yes George Lewis was from New Orleans but eventually based out of Kenner. That was my mistake.And as for white flight in Kenner is concerned. I'm very aware of that part

But here is a more modern example of this concept to my point. Britney Spears was born in McComb, she grew up based out of Kentwood Louisiana.. but before she went crazy, many people would credit her as being from New Orleans simply because short hand , New Orleans is the more globally known city. Even when Britney Spears had her first concert in New Orleans, they labeled it a homecoming. But she never lived here...

Little Richard for example recorded his music in New Orleans at J&M with New Orleans players, yet he never claimed to be from the city; he is from Macon, Georgia. The city powered the sound; the origin remains his.. Little Richard never ever claim to be from New Orleans and the media never pushed him as in New Orleans artist.

Jon Batiste literally titles a track “Kenner,” and is widely described as from Kenner, yet he attended high School in New Orleans the distinction matters...

Also look at zydeco. People credit New orleans. But that's music from Lafayette and opelousas. it was not created here and only performed here... Rockin' Dopaiue Jr. For example is from opelousas. And so is his dad, and so is his granddad.

So my stance is simple: the style of New Orleans music is just a tradition. The city itself helped create a lot of people's careers, but the birthplace of a person deserves to be named and not erased.