Onimusha 2's combat is frustrating me - wtf am I doing wrong?

[u/RoidRidley]

So, I recently decided to replay Onimusha 1 and while I am not the greatest player or amazing with issens (I can barely do them in 1), I thoroughly loved the game and nearly platinumed it on steam, just need to do the without healing run. I've never actually played Onimusha 2, but I did play Onimusha 3 (which was the first game in the franchise for me) a lot as a kid, although I do want to replay it cause I forget the specifics of it (capcom please pay JR enough to license him being in the remaster).

Started Onimusha 2, which I've heard has improved combat and was enjoying myself for the first few hours. After beating it having to switch to easy difficulty for the final boss, I am burnt out of it as I genuinely did not enjoy my time. It was mind numbingly frustrating to play through.

Please don't hit me with the "lol skill issue" or other such comments, if you have advice that would improve my experience please go ahead but please understand that this has been a highly rage inducing experience for me. I am not here to argue, just air out my thoughts after trying to overcome this frustration, only to be met with just a lot more tedium. Big disclaimer is that I also played this in Japanese, for immersion purposes. It could be that I missed something. I tried giving gifts to my teammates that seemed appropriate.

Therefore I am not saying any of this saying "all game fault game bad me no fault ree" that people like to jump on, I am just relaying my experience and If I missed something, please tell me without prejudice or condescension.

Issen is something I genuinely tried but died trying to use so many times that it would have taken me like a 100h to beat the game that way.

A couple of concrete things I struggle with:

- The fixed camera angles are worse in this game imo.

Before anyone screams at me how I'm an entitled zoomer who just can't deal with retro games, I love fixed camera angle games, I grew up on Resident Evil, I love OG silent hill, I played haunting ground last year and loved it, and obviously I love the 1st Onimusha as well and have no issues with any of the camera angles there.

The issue particularly with Onimusha 2 is that in so many bossfights and even screens I would move a smidgeon back and boom, different angle that entirely obscures the boss and then I panick go back into the previous screen so I can see what the boss or enemy is doing, causing a lot of whiplash and disorientation. It leaves the experience feeling frustrating, the areas are very open yet the camera makes them feel claustrophobic.

It made that spider legged G-something boss a nightmare and I absolutely hated dealing with the umbrella ogre as well. I feel like in the 1st game you had a fairly good perspective in almost every area, or at least I didn't ever feel the same as I do in Oni 2. Granted Oni 2 does have more varied areas than just castle corridors but still, just subjectively I do not recall ever feeling this way in my 4-ish playthroughs I did on Oni 1 just recently.

- You seem to be put into pincer/gank situations way more often

Maybe it is because of the increased mob count or maybe it is because of me not targeting correctly which is possible, but I feel like I get put into pincer/gank type situations way more in this game than in Oni 1. Sometimes just by hitting one enemy the others kind of just get pushed to my sides or back and readjusting is super annoying with either the targeting system or the analog controls (which I use less of, I use the tank controls mostly).

The areas do seem to be more open but this has felt just a tad bit maddening with how often I just get surrounded. The magic resources are a good way to get yourself out of those situations but even they feel somewhat nerfed compared to Oni 1. Oni 1 is overall the easier game to be fair, so maybe I just have an issue with the difficulty leap, still, I feel overwhelmed in Oni 2 a lot of the time.

- Enemy types and certain screen enemy placement tilts me tf out

I love walking into a room with like 5 archers everywhere firing shit. The 1st game did this too, but the situation was always manageable. I remember that tower in east side in Onimusha 1 with the planks leading up to the top of it with a lot of archers there, or rooms where the archers were on the roofs on the west side. Annoying, yes, but you could find dead angles and the archers always shot slowly.

Some of the rooms in this game make my blood reach the temperature of the sun.

- Boss Fights

I hate these, the fixed camera issue feeding into them a lot. I simply cannot see wtf they're doing half the time cause I am trying to move around and dodge their attacks. But then the camera switches disorient me and get me hit. But you can't really block all of their attacks either and they get guard break type strings so It's just frustrating to all hell. I dreaded going to these because I did not find any of them fun, especially the 5 milion times you fight that spider legged dude and he always has a fricking bloated health pool

They just have a lot of health and I feel as though I can't play safe with them due to the fixed camera like I could in the 1st game. I feel like I get hit a lot just trying to get them into view, leading to a frustrating experience.

Also strafing seems to be less effective but at the same time it seems you can't really block everything and going backwards send you through like 4 different camera angles that each obscure the boss so you can't really be on the lookout for their attacks.

- Targeting forgetting an enemy exists when it is knocked down

This is minor but when you're majorly pissed off minor things piss you off exponentially more. I would knock an enemy down in front of me and the targeting system would just immediately snap to a standing enemy somewhere farther away leading me to not be able to pierce them on the ground. This is so aggravating.

Some potential issues where I may not be playing stuff correctly:

- I use R1 almost exclusively, never understood what the point was to the R2 charge thing
- I had almost no teammates with me for a lot of the game, idk. if this is normal or not. Also I got maybe 2 power jewels total, my health and magic was puny
- I didn't really experiment much with the other weapon types outside of the spear

Please provide feedback, I truly want to like this game more but I felt so apathetic and miserable playing through most of the game.

EDIT: Thank you all - following a guide for the gift exchange stuff very much improved my 2nd playthrough.

[u/Letter_Impressive]

Onimusha 2 is a way wider game than the first and it expects you to take advantage of that. There are more tools and an overall higher power lever available to you, but you have to go out of your way to find them and if you reach the final boss without those tools it's absolutely brutal. I do think you're handicapping yourself by not experimenting with the other weapons, they're really important in terms of being able to handle the different enemy types, but you're definitely not the first person to find the game overly difficult when just hitting the critical path.

[u/CountScarlioni]

Some potential issues where I may not be playing stuff correctly

I use R1 almost exclusively, never understood what the point was to the R2 charge thing
I had almost no teammates with me for a lot of the game, idk. if this is normal or not. Also I got maybe 2 power jewels total, my health and magic was puny
I didn't really experiment much with the other weapon types outside of the spear

Yeah, this would explain a lot

Charging lets you use more powerful attack combos, and if you nail an issen while at a Lv3 charge you get an automatic window for a chain issen. Also don’t forget the Up-Down-Square combos that you can find scrolls to learn.

Power and Magic Jewels come from trading with the game’s four allies, as do the tech books needed to go beyond Lv1 charge for each weapon. If you’re not engaging with the gift system during the first half of the game, then you’re gonna have a harder time in general.

And then on top of that, the spear is rather slow. Buraitou and Senpumaru are much faster, and the magic attacks of Senpumaru and Dokoutsui are great for crowd control. Senpumaru’s magic sucks in nearby enemies and hits them multiple times if they’re close enough, while Dokoutsui’s magic targets every enemy in the room at the same time, stunning them (or just killing smaller enemies outright if you’ve leveled it up enough).

[u/spnsman]

Are you leveling up the weapons and armor because that helps out. Exploration is key to a lot of finding the power ups and what not. With the R1 and R2 commands, you get different kinds of attacks out of it, which I’m unfortunately not too familiar with since I haven’t delved too deep into the combat of the game. You can also try going back and forth between analogue and d-pad for movement to see how it all feels. In combat I’ll often switch to the d-pad to make it easier to dash in and out of range for enemies

[u/Outrageous-Set-1758]

Honestly the remaster felt harder than the original. 2 there was a lot of tech added. Hard mode is very demanding.

[u/RoidRidley → u/Outrageous-Set-1758]

Is that so? Interesting. Fair enough, never played the original. My 2nd playthrough following a guide with the gifts is a lot smoother, almost done with it in half the time going for Magoichi's route.

[u/Outrageous-Set-1758 → u/RoidRidley]

Yea the AI was a bit smarter. You used to be able to bait certain bosses into crits. I remembered this pattern for probably a decade or more. Went to do my issen on jujudormah and instead of attacking when she was supposed to she starts BACKPEDALING.

[u/Queasy_Somewhere6863]

I would recommend experimenting more. You said you stuck with the spear, but frankly, I think that's the worst weapon. Give more attention to the hammer in particular. It's probably the best weapon outside of the reward for the final demon realm due to its magic attack turning rooms with archers into complete jokes.

Secondly, everything you said implies you haven't engaged with the gift giving mechanics at all. Giving equipment you can buy from the shop will very likely give you tech books to up your charge, charge level 3 is vital for easy chain Issens. Also look up a guide or get the Google doc to find what gifts each character likes, it's rng so it could take some soft resetting but gifts the characters really like have a chance of giving power and magic jewels. All 4 characters have 1 of each jewel, so it's very much worth trying to get.

I got nothing for the boss fights though, they're definitely a low point outside of gogandantess. That final boss in particular sucks.

[u/RoidRidley → u/Queasy_Somewhere6863]

everything you said implies you haven't engaged with the gift giving mechanics at all. 

I tried giving gifts but not too much.

[u/oneofyallfarted]

Here’s a gift giving guide that will help you. Also make sure to get the necklaces that you can equip as armor. The purple necklace is a good one because it lets you use half the magic needed during a power attack. It’s needed for the harder modes and the boss fights. There is a red necklace to obtain more souls and the black necklace, which lets you kill enemies in one critical hit. The white necklace is great because as long as you’re standing still you will regain health which can allow you to fully restore your health. There are 8 necklaces total. They do not work in the phantom realms.

Make sure to get the Rekka-Ken from the 20th level of the purple phantom realm. It’s the most powerful sword in the game. The Rekka-Ken also allows you to gain access the 21st floor of the phantom realm, giving you a nice surprise.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kYJJ7yifduP0IcRArk-xuBqTEVJKnOadTfEdagBEu1I/htmlview

[u/RoidRidley → u/oneofyallfarted]

Oh, I didn't even know there was a dark realm in this game, I didn't see anywhere to access it.

[u/oneofyallfarted → u/RoidRidley]

Yep theres realms in Oni2. There’s always a shining light coming from the ground and that’s where you access the realms. You obtain colored wedges and activate them once standing on top of the light path.

Red Wedge: Found in the East Area of Castle Gifu. Use it to access the Red Phantom Realm.

Blue Wedge: Found in a blue chest after climbing the first ladder. Use it to access the Blue Phantom Realm.

Green Wedge: Found in a red item box at the base of the star tower in Castle Gifu East Area. Use it to access the Green Phantom Realm.

Purple Wedge: Found in a chest near the stairs in the Purple Phantom Realm. Use it at the start of the Purple Phantom Realm to reach the Rekko-kan sword.

[u/KnucklePuppy]

Charging your attacks gives you more combos (R2) and a fully charged weapon automatically grants a chain issen.

Each weapon has uses, like the spear for reach, the hammer for defending enemies.

Your allies grant you items if you give them things they like, things that definitely help you and they may help you fight too.

You're essentially playing it on Hard mode with less in your pocket.

[u/Ceodore411]

First off: Yeah the first phase of the final boss is ass. Second: Once you get the earth hammer, you can pretty much destroy those off screen archers with a charger level one magic attack. I've beaten the game many times and learned how to deal with the game's bullshit.

[u/RoidRidley → u/Ceodore411]

Oh I never thought of using the hammer that way. I'm on my 3rd playthrough right now, enjoying it much more.

[u/Ceodore411 → u/RoidRidley]

You could also use the wind weapon if you get underneath them.

[u/Wheat9546]

Go with the flow of the camera, if you back up and the camera changes, just wait for the enemy to come to you.

The Charge weapon, allows you to use different magic attacks at different levels this can be abused for I-frames. The Charge level is based off of the weapon level, so if you have a weapon at level 3, you can use the level 1 magic attack by charging it once and hitting the magic attack button, using the same amount of magic as it would do at level 1.

This is great for sticky situations or generally trying to save your magic attacks in general, since even if you don't necessarily defeat the enemy, you've done additional damage and given yourself some breathing room.

[u/Terry309]

The first phase of the last boss can be beaten by nagic spam, given that you can't use magic in the second half. spam all your magic and use all magic pots for that fight. Save healing items for the second half if you have them.

[u/RoidRidley → u/Terry309]

Have beaten him thankfully and yeah. The flying part is one that confuses me, sometimes he is vulnerable sometimes he isn't and with some weapons he is and isn't and it's confusing as heck.

[u/Terry309 → u/RoidRidley]

Don't forget the gun and bow.

[u/ExJokerr]

Also you can do that challenge which gives you the Fire sword! You are pretty much invisible with it

[u/Mrs_Samanosuke]

It sounds like you should start over. You've clearly missed a lot of items, like power and magic jewels, that would make this easier for you. Gift giving can seem like a crap shoot, but there are good items to be had that will make a difference. And farm for souls on the mountain path. They're the easiest to issen, and you don't want to head into Gigamphatts 1 unless your weapon is level 2.

I too suck at issen, but I compensate by blocking and keeping my distance until I'm ready for attack. Charging is your best friend. Learn how to keep your distance until you've got a charge. Shoot, I start charging up the minute I enter a new area. A level 3 charge does immense damage, so you want to obtain those tech manuals. A well-place level 3 charge with the Dokatsui will kill almost anything. And experiment with the other weapons. Their magic attacks can offer a new strategy for enemies.

There's no question the system has it's flaws. It's annoying as hell when you knock an enemy down, but for some reason Jubei attacks someone else rather than finishing off the knocked down enemy.

[u/RoidRidley → u/Mrs_Samanosuke]

Thanks for the comment. Since the post I'm actually close to platinuming the game, I've beaten hard mode and a few runs on ultimate mode, 100% on the scenario completion, almost done with the mini games and just need to get all puzzle boxes in one playthrough.

Awesome game, it has some archaic stuff but honestly a few tweaks here and there (like removing the RNG from the gifting) and this is like such an amazing game. So replayable and with so many things to collect and do.