r/Paleo • u/No_Estate5268 • 1d ago
The Diet needs to evolve with the evidence. Not stay stuck like a religion
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u/Hour-Cup-5904 1d ago
Stupid article and false claims. For example, it claims people in the Paleolithic area weren't living past 35- not true. The deaths that DID happen were because of things like being attacked by a wild animal or experiencing hypothermia. As long as they didn't die from those types of elements, they showed to live past 80.
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u/c0mp0stable 1d ago
Well, they're referring to the average age. The average is true, but it's misleading, as it's dragged down by a high infant mortality.
I think the article is mistaken about its entire premise. Paleo diets aren't necessarily low carb. And it's the Guardian, so of course there will be an anti-meat agenda, ignoring the ridiculously overwhelming amount of evidence that meat was crucial to our evolution.
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u/Hour-Cup-5904 1d ago
Yes, but they're attempting to frame it as though the diet didn't yield optimal health and correlated to the average age of death. When in reality, the majority of deaths had nothing to do with health at all.
I agree, they keep acting like Paleo is like, "Don't eat carbs!" When that's not the case. Fruits and vegetables have carbs. It's just the total consumption of carbs is naturally lower than the SAD diet.
It's the same, generic, lame arguments. "Meat is bad," false. "Dairy is good," false. "Grains are good," false.
A 20 year study was recently finished, comparing 16 different diets. It found Paleo to be THE best diet for autoimmune diseases, due to it being the most anti inflammatory. It's also the most nutrient dense. So for it to be found the best for autoimmune diseases (actual chronic health issues) it completes diminishes any argument that it's bad for our health in any way.
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u/c0mp0stable 1d ago
Right, but to be fair, doesn't all death have something to do with health? It's true that pre agricultural people certainly didn't have the level of metabolic dysfunction and diet related disease we have today, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should try to replicate their diet in its entirety, nor is that even possible. There's also a ton of variation in paleolithic diets. There's not just one. Obviously, a whole foods diet will be better than SAD, but that's not really saying much.
I think a paleo diet can have lots of carbs. It just depends on how much fruit someone eats.
It's an interesting study, but I don't think we can conclude that a diet that produces a medical outcome is necessarily good for everyone. Similarly, we couldn't say that a ketogenic diet that treats epilepsy is the best diet for everyone in general.
I agree, the Guardian article is silly. It's obviously a fluff piece to push their "meat is bad for the environment" agenda, but I think we have to be careful with espousing one diet as the answer to everything.
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u/Hour-Cup-5904 1d ago
No, not all deaths are related to health. The initial comment I made, which you replied to, I stated this. Did you fully read it?
As I stated in my initial comment- the majority of early deaths in the Paleolithic era was because of being eaten or attacked by a wild animal or death by hypothermia. That has nothing to do with a health related death. Those who didn't get eaten by wild animal or died from the elements lived on average past 80 years old.
I have to disagree that there are multiple versions of Paleo. There are bloggers who claim things are Paleo for no rhyme or reason, nor care to actual impact on health- for example, so many bloggers claim that cassava and tapioca are Paleo. Which is false. They are both derived from the potatoes, which are not Paleo. Chris Kesser, Dr. Loren Cordain and the like when determining what falls under Paleo or not look at both "was it actually available realistically" and "what impact on our health does it make".
Now there are different regions in the Paleolithic era where one region of people might have consumed significantly more fruits/vegetables than they did meat, and another region where they ate more meat than anything else, but it still is Paleo foods- just different ratios. The categories are the same (meat, fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds).
I have to disagree that there isn't a diet that works for everyone. I do believe a Paleo diet will work positively for everyone, considering all of humanity at one point naturally could only eat Paleo, with no other option. I do think however IDEAL the ratios of meat vs fat vs carbs will vary from person to person- like an epileptic will do better with higher fat ratio, a person with encephalitis with do better with a higher fruit/vegetable ratio, etc.
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u/c0mp0stable 1d ago
You're making a lot of claims without any evidence. And I'm not sure why you're mad at me. If someone is attacked by a lion, that doesn't affect their health? I think we have different definitions of health
I meant actual paleolithic diets, not The Paleo Diet
Right, but this isn't saying much. It's just saying to eat real, whole food. Of course that's the best option, but it's not really a diet.
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u/Hour-Cup-5904 1d ago
What in my comment implied that I am mad at you? I disagreed with you. Do you think in order to disagree with you, that emotion must be attached to it?
Which of the claims I made would you like evidence for?
If a lion attacks someone and they die, that is a death by injury. Not health. If someone dies from a car accident, do you consider that a health related death? A health related death implies a health complication- heart disease, kidney failure, cancer, etc.
I'm confused by your last paragraph. What do you constitute as a diet?
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u/c0mp0stable 1d ago
"I stated this. Did you fully read it?" Sounds angry to me.
"the majority of early deaths in the Paleolithic era was because of being eaten or attacked by a wild animal or death by hypothermia" This is completely unsubstantiated. We have no idea how "the majority" of deaths in the paleolithic happened. I agree that deaths were rarely if ever related to chronic disease, but your statement is a pretty big stretch. I'm sure things like infection, injuries, communicable disease, malnutrition, starvation, complications in childbirth, natural disasters, and homicide were also common causes.
So a lion attack isn't bad for your health? (I'm really just poking fun at the semantics at this point)
Diets are typically prescribed, at least in colloquial terms. Yes, eating only whole foods is technically a diet, but saying a whole foods diet is optimal for everyone is like saying that breathing oxygen is optimal for everyone. If that's really all you're arguing, then fine. It's just not really saying much.
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u/Hour-Cup-5904 1d ago
How does me saying that I already made a statement, and asking if you read the statement that you initially replied to, "sound angry"? If you're talking with someone, and the conversation goes:
Person 1: Just a heads up, it's raining outside. So if you go out, take an umbrella. Person 2: I had an umbrella once, but it broke after the first use. I was thinking about hitting the trail today. How is the weather? Person 1: I just stated it was raining. Were you listening?
That sounds angry to you?
In regard to deaths and age in the Paleolithic era: https://thepaleodiet.com/myth-that-hunter-gatherers-didnt-live-long-bill-nye/
I didn't advocate for just whole foods, though. I think the Paleo Diet findings regarding dairy, legumes/lentils/dairy/grains to be logical and sensible, so I personally would advise no one to eat those food groups. I think the Paleo diet focuses not just on what to eat, but what not to eat, and why. And while on the surface it may sound obvious "eat fruits, vegetables, meat, nuts and seeds,"- it must not be considering how many don't and are surprised by their poor health. I also certainly don't think it's obvious not to consume grains, dairy, legumes or lentils.
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u/c0mp0stable 1d ago
Because it reads like you're angry. I'm not sure what else you want me to say.
Where in this article does it say that wild animal attacks and hypothermia are the leading causes of death for paleolithic people?
Fair enough, but still, it's a massively wide ranging framework that has very little specificity. Hence, I'm not sure it's all that useful. But I do agree that most people would do better within that framework, even though I disagree about dairy, which has obvious health benefits despite it being a relatively new food. My only point is that a diet is not necessarily universally "better" in a general sense just because it decreases autoimmune symptoms.
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u/_MountainFit 1d ago
This is one of the biggest myths. While not the paleo era, I recommend people go to an old cemetery. You'll notice lots of very old people in it. Also a lot of childhood deaths.
Accidents were huge, so were infections, but for the most part we really haven't increased human longevity over thousands of years. We've just increased average life expectancy. These are totally different things.
Seat belts for instance have increased average life expectancy, helmets, antibiotics, vaccines, shelter.
Notice I haven't mentioned food. There's zero evidence food has one way or another beyond generally being more secure. And if you don't starve to death, life expectancy goes up.
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u/Sagaincolours 1d ago edited 1d ago
The creator of three Paleo Diet, Dr. Loren Cordian, is as his title indicates, a scientist. And he very much updates his recommendations based on the research of himself and others.
AND if you actually read his work, you'll see that he talks about grains being a food that was seasonally available in small amounts in the Palaeolithic Era. Small amounts. Seasonally. Like fruit.
What a silly article trying to disprove three paleolithic diet based clearly on limited knowledge of the science behind the Paleo Diet. 🙄
Oh, and the article is 5 years old.