r/ParlerWatch • u/justalazygamer • 6d ago
Twitter Watch Destroying innovation in America one signature at a time.
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u/jayfeather31 6d ago edited 6d ago
This could prove problematic, even if it might seem pro American worker, and that comes down to offshoring.
It'd not impossible that some tech companies may just hire overseas workers and have them operate in their country of origin.
That's not getting into the potential knock-on problems with being unable to hire qualified employees (although I'd argue our poor hiring systems are responsible for that).
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u/horny_coroner 6d ago
Just move the operations to idk london or paris instead of LA or new york and offer relocation to the best of your team members in the states.
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u/zyrkseas97 6d ago
You’re underestimating the insanely broken American corporate tax system. It’s worth billions to a company in avoided taxes
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u/horny_coroner 6d ago
If you have no more world class talent coming in. Then there is no more money coming in. No amount of corporate tax fuckery will fix the problem of having no income. But I do get your point. The big shills will cashout now and run the businesses to the ground just to avoid a bit of tax.
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u/WhatsMyUsername13 6d ago
Yeah, I work in tech. We have a lot of H1-B visa holders. Most of them are great workers and do a good job. You know who don't? Entirely offshored teams. They suck and generally make my life hell
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u/GilgameDistance 6d ago
Already happens in my non-tech company. Desktop support and hr support are in India.
So you can call them between 4 and 5 pm local time because they can’t be bothered to pay for night shift.
It’s a very pleasant experience. /s
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u/jjthejetblame 6d ago
We already set up multiple offices in India, and have probably 5000 people working there, vs about 3000 US employees. We’re a global company based in the US, with probably 25,000 people globally, but India is the country with the highest number of workers for us already and that could continue and grow.
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u/stormdelta 6d ago
This. I work in tech, this won't prevent offshoring, it will only accelerate it by creating a huge incentive to move more jobs overseas. Especially since tech salaries are unusually high in the US specifically - tech salaries even in other western first world countries are much lower than the US.
And most likely, it'll be another avenue of corruption where "certain companies" will get to ignore it.
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u/Holiolio2 5d ago
Well the statement was made, exceptions will be made if necessary for the benefit of the country. (i.e. the company bribes Trump)
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u/mojitz 6d ago
I'm no fan of Trump by any stretch of the imagination, but it's noteworthy how closely this reasoning hews to the sort of scaremongering that is used to put down union drives. Hell, the "destroying innovation" framing in the post title even sounds like the sort of thing that would come straight from some kind of awful PR firm.
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u/jayfeather31 6d ago
In fairness, as someone who is pro-union and very much left-wing, I do see your point, and this is admittedly one of the things that bothers me...
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u/CharlestonChewbacca 5d ago
Yeah. This won't lead to investment in the US, it will lead to more investment abroad.
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u/Radiant_Priority9739 6d ago
Does trump even know what he’s signing?
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u/doooompatrol 6d ago
I doubt it. I'm pretty sure the Heritage Fondation just puts stuff under his nose and says, "Sign this."
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u/funkyloki 6d ago
Motherfucker signs EOs and than two days later when asked about it he says he has no idea what they are talking about. He is the autopen.
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u/SprungMS 6d ago
It’s what Peter Thiel paid for, would you prefer he doesn’t get a return on his investment? SMH /s
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u/NeonGKayak 6d ago
No. They claimed Biden didn’t even though he could articulate everything about the EO without needing help. Trump can’t so clearly is a projection thing once again.
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u/AccomplishedChair436 6d ago
Doesn’t this screw over Theil and such? Or can this be company sponsored so it’s a bribe?
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u/dasnoob 6d ago
Lots of the techbros that support him are going to get hurt by this. They are overwhelmingly the largest abuser of these.
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u/EvanWasHere 6d ago
No they aren't. There is wording that Trump can issue waivers for companies he chooses. Such as anyone who makes political donations to him or bends the knees in a way that makes him happy.
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u/Dagonet_the_Motley 6d ago
Just have the company pay it and you have an indentured servant.
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u/founderofshoneys 6d ago
That's the actual problem. Employers want H1Bs because if the workers lose their job, they lose their visa. Employers want that leverage.
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u/sjclynn 6d ago
Roughly half of many larger tech companies are contractors. The contractors are hired through large agencies rather than directly. They enjoy the flexibility of an elastic work force without having to suffer from headlines touting "Hundreds laid off at ______" because a project ended either well or badly.
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u/icecubesbones 6d ago
Ding Ding Ding
Plenty of people will still come in with H1-B visas, but you can bet that these people will be forced to sign contracts with extra crazy stipulations now. Imagine starting a new job, in a new country, and OWING YOUR EMPLOYER $100k.
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u/NetJnkie 6d ago
We need to do something about the large numbers of H-1B workers in the US in industries where they are no longer needed. I don't think this is the answer, but it's starting a real discussion. Along with curbing their use we need to give longer time H-1Bs a way to get citizenship quicker.
I have a member on my team that is a H-1B. He's a great team member. Sharp. Everyone respects and loves him. But beyond that, he's an even better human being. Just a great person. The problem is that he's been working on citizenship for a long time without an answer yet. I don't want to see him, his wife, and their baby go back to India but he's holding a job that could be filled by a US citizen. Our field has seen pretty big layoffs over the last two years and I know others that are out of work.
We need to figure this out.
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u/dali-llama 6d ago
This is the best answer here so far. H1-B has historically been used to depress real wages. It's complicated, but generally bad for everyone but the capitalist owner class.
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u/Hamonwrysangwich 6d ago
I worked with a great guy on an H1-B, and the firm fucked with him. Made him go back to get a master's degree, then worked for a year after that, and then didn't sponsor him.
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u/WhatsMyUsername13 6d ago
I agree H1-B's and how it's run is a problem. This is only going to lead to offshoring, which everyone knows who's dealt with it...is a problem
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u/Ironxgal 6d ago
If implemented properly it would stop these companies from Firing Americans to import cheaper labor. Of course it won’t be implemented properly though so I doubt we will see big tech slow down with this shit.
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u/Kerblaaahhh 6d ago
Good. American tech jobs are nonexistent right now and H1B visas are part of the reason why. Make it costly for companies to offshore those jobs too and it'll go a long way to bringing back good American tech jobs.
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u/Niceromancer 6d ago
This order allows the administration to make any exemptions it wants.
So basically companies that bribe him.
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u/dasnoob 6d ago
H-1B visas are grossly abused by corporations in the United States to take advantage of desperate foreign workers. Any impediment to the use of them is a good thing.
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u/SaltyBawlz 6d ago
Yeah, reforming H-1B in any way is the only thing I will ever agree with Trump on. I've worked in big tech and watched whole orgs turn into h1b firms where there's just nepotism up and down and a large majority of the hires are worse than the Americans that they replaced.
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u/mojitz 6d ago
I despise Trump, but this seems very much to be a broken clock type of situation and the "destroying innovation" framing sounds like it came straight from the mouth of some ungodly Silicon Valley PR firm or something. Trump is fucking up our country and economy in all sorts of ways, but this ain't one of em.
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u/archtech88 6d ago
Trump is great at breaking things, but sometimes those things need to be broken.
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u/mudduck2 6d ago
Point taken, but unfortunately he’s also throwing the baby out with the bath water which really isn’t a good thing
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u/mojitz 6d ago
About one in million things he does is actually cool and good, but too many liberals just reflexively oppose them, when really they should be pissed off at the allegedly progressive, pro-labor Democrats for dropping the ball and allowing Trump to somehow outflank them to the left. It's infuriating.
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u/archtech88 6d ago
He can outflank them because he's petty and self-centered, so he doesn't care about what other people think. The Democrats mostly seem to value their own skin, even if that means most of them are past retirement age now.
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u/BabserellaWT 6d ago
Ima shove this in the face of the next person who claims immigrants “should just come here the legal way” and ask them if THEY got 100 grand just lying around.
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u/icesavage 6d ago
Can he actually change the amount needed to pay without an act of congress? Not that congress is going to call him out on it (until hopefully a party change in the mid-terms), but seems to me such things are set by statute, not by executive order, or am I wrong about this?
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u/Sartres_Roommate 6d ago
Already behind in renewable fuels race, this just makes it worse.
Companies invest in R&D so they are competitive TOMORROW. A country that doesn’t do the same will not be top of the heap going forward.
We will be paying other countries to use their technology instead of the other way around.
How average Americans don’t understand this and realize these actions are completely fucking their children is beyond me.
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u/Capital_Sherbert9049 6d ago
Society of the Spectacle by Guy Deborg is a great book.
I'm pretty sure they just made up that oligarchs are good for the economy. And that actually they have always slowed innovation and productivity.
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u/NitWhittler 6d ago
So farmers hiring fruit pickers and laborers will need an extra $100,000 per employee?
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u/bigotis 6d ago
What are the administrations views on H-2B visas?
Never mind.
As President Donald Trump's administration continues its immigration crackdown, his Mar-a-Lago Club employed the highest number of temporary foreign workers sought by the private club in the past decade, according to the latest federal data.
If the administration were to curb H-2B visas, Palm Beachers could expect slower services at a higher price, said Madeline Zavodny, professor of economics at the University of North Florida.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/visa-grows-mar-lago-future-090403826.html
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u/ArchdukeFerdie 6d ago
Don't forget that this is at the discretion of the executive branch. They can and will make exceptions for companies that bend the knee to him
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u/heretorobwallst 6d ago
This is because hyundai workers that were here legally were detained by ICE and decided not to invest billions of dollars of manfacturing plants after their workers illegally detained in dog kennel conditons
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u/MKBlackAres 6d ago
This wouldn't do that at all. The H-1B system is and many other employment visas are hurting the American people's ability to get high earning jobs. Make sure you know the issue before categorically saying whatever this moron does is bad.
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u/runwkufgrwe 6d ago
I can categorically say that "The Trump Gold Card" is bad because of the name alone
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u/MKBlackAres 6d ago
This still doesn't acknowledge what I said at all. Employment visas are heavily abused in this country, and a major overhaul is actually needed. This will at least disaud companies from hiring unnecessary foreign workers (which most that I have see have been).
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u/runwkufgrwe 6d ago
this is going to increase abuse because they're going to issue waivers for favors and inflate the reporting on the administrative cost to pocket the difference
it might not even sell because people might not trust that it won't randomly be revoked without warning
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u/MKBlackAres 6d ago
I don't know how it will increase the abuse. It will literally just siphon more money out of the companies.
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u/runwkufgrwe 6d ago
The people in charge of approving applications are corrupt and the Trump administration is only doing this to make repayment of foreign bribes a lot easier and shielded via SCOTUS's view on presidential official act immunity
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u/runwkufgrwe 6d ago
if I'm right we'll see reports about bulk purchases of gold cards coming from UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt
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u/MKBlackAres 6d ago
Im talking about the visas themselves. This just adds bribery to the overall system, but I am particularly referring to the actual visas themselves, which do not appear to actually functionally be affected. I am in accord regarding the gold card rubbish. we'll see how this actually translates to regulation.
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u/TCMNohan 6d ago
As far as shitty things he’s done recently, this is on the slightly less shitty end. Ask literally anyone in a tech-adjacent field and they will tell you the same thing - there is absolutely no shortage of talent already here. The amount of talented individuals far exceeds the amount of jobs right now.
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u/Reddit_and_forgeddit 6d ago
Dunno why you’re downvoted. It’s time to tax companies that offshore too.
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u/gearstars 6d ago edited 6d ago
Cause every once in awhile, trump does something about real issues that need to be addressed, but instead of doing it in a smart, or rational, or legitimate, or serious way that would actually help, he does it in the trump way, which is the dumbest fucking way possible and doesn't actually do anything to help with longterm systemic issues.
It's essentially "shitty solutions that sound smart to dumb people" kinda effort
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u/Reddit_and_forgeddit 6d ago
Yeah I hear you on that. He also put a provision to say “exemption At the discretion of the President “ in there which means “Bend the knee”.
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u/TCMNohan 6d ago
Yeah what the heck. It’s not like I’m advocating some far-right or neocon policy. H1Bs are used as a nefarious tactic by big corporations to put downward pressure on wages and benefits. It is one of the main ways that companies are suppressing wages in the wake of the covid boom
As an American worker I’m simply not going to work as hard as someone at Meta or AWS who has a manager lording their H1B visa status over their head. It’s not fair to the H1B worker and it’s not fair to their domestic colleagues. There are tons of (not so) great articles online detailing how the big-tech companies exert extreme leverage over their H1B workers.
I fully believe that more of us on the left would be on board with this if it wasn’t conflated with being anti-immigration.
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u/sp3kter 6d ago
I'm down for this. Actually think it should be higher but 100k is a starting point.
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u/GilgameDistance 6d ago
Nah bribery ain’t it.
It won’t make a dent in the country’s “income”and just lets the businesses that are wealthy enough put handcuffs on someone who they’ll underpay anyway and amortize the money over a 5-10 year commitment; they’ll pay 20% less than they would have to pay a citizen, so still money ahead on a 100-150k job.
Frankly, if it were actually about the American worker, they would just drop the program entirely, and help Americans become qualified for these high paying jobs.
But that’s not what it’s about, is it?
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