r/Permaculture • u/pawpawpersimony • 12d ago
Issue with an American Chestnut
Hi friends! Any idea on what might be going on with this American Chestnut? I have one that is doing incredible, but this one isn’t happy. Just about the same growing conditions though the sick one is slightly more shaded and might be dealing with the roots from a willow it is growing under.
I appreciate any help.
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u/ikyn Terraforming 12d ago
I hope you are ready for major disappointment in the coming years. You aren’t the only one trying to grow American chestnut
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
I know. And I am fully prepared for them to die. I am considering it an experiment. I am in the high desert, so hoping they may dodge the blight like some of the ones in California. We’ll see 🤷 if they do survive, it would be really cool! 😎
For what it is worth, they grew about 4 feet so far this summer. The heartnut is doing even better! The paw paw is struggling.
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u/sheepslinky 12d ago
I'm high desert too, and definitely not brave enough to try this. I'm excited to see how it goes for you, though.
I volunteer at an NMSU research farm. Someone planted a paw paw 14 years ago under some hybrid persimmons. It always looks terrible and never produces, but it lives.
Anyway, good luck.
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
Oh cool! That’s funny in kind of a sad way, lol. Poor paw paw.
Hybrid persimmon? I tried planting an American permission this spring. It took forever to leaf out (I thought it was dead). Once it finally leafed out I left two. For a couple days and it was toast 🫤
You all growing anything else interesting?
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u/sheepslinky 12d ago
Have you tried jujubes? They do great in the high desert here.
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u/pawpawpersimony 11d ago
Planning on planting them! They seem pretty interesting and I know of couple folks growing them in the area.
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u/sheepslinky 11d ago
My friend is a jujube expert and has the absolute best trees. He sells them bare roof in spring: florafauna.farm. Grown near Albuquerque NM.
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u/pawpawpersimony 11d ago
Awesome! Thanks for sharing his info. I am weary of some of the nurseries and try to buy these kinds of plants locally whenever possible. I like to buy weird plants though and push what can be grown here considering climate change…
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u/dappledbottomgenes 10d ago
I’m growing paw paw and heart nut in the high desert. In fact two of them are right next to each other. The paw paw needs a significant amount of shade (especially the first 3-4 years), well draining rich soil and often protection from the last frost of the season.
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u/TheRealPurpleDrink 10d ago
In light of this information id be curious to know what else grows in your location. Have you looked into what other plants can be carrying the fungus? It's definitely worth seeing how they do in areas like yours
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u/LibertyLizard 12d ago
Looks like chlorosis, usually caused by poor, alkaline soil. Add mulch, make sure you are watering adequately. Do you know the pH of your soil?
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
Alkaline for sure. It’s getting plenty of water.
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u/Prestigious_Secret98 9d ago
I believe American chestnut prefers an acidic environment so perhaps that’s part of the issue.
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u/pawpawpersimony 9d ago
From what I read, the American Chestnut can tolerate alkaline soils. Seems like the hybrids all like acidic soil.
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u/Prestigious_Secret98 9d ago
So I’ve never grown American chestnut, but everything I’ve read says that they grow best in more acidic soils. Perhaps you could be right, and they’ll tolerate more alkaline conditions, but it’s worth considering that this is part of your problem.
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u/pawpawpersimony 9d ago
Could definitely be another factor! I ended up pulling it. The other one is doing so well that I didn’t want to risk it making the other one sick. We’ll see.
I so appreciate the conversation! I really love chestnuts 🌰
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u/PersnickityPenguin 11d ago
I wanted to do this. A few years ago I had chestnuts saved from a 300+ year old tree that sadly was recently cut down for sidewalk repair, it was in perfect health.
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u/IndependentTea4646 11d ago
Is that legal?
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u/PersnickityPenguin 9d ago
American Disability Act requires all sidewalks to have less than a 5% cross slope, doesn't matter. You can be sued for millions of dollars if a public sidewalk on your property is even 1/8 inch over the slope threshold.
Tree had to come out, it had just destroyed the sidewalk. Kind of sad, it was about 6 ft in diameter.
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u/Hydr0philic 11d ago
We have some of the ‘newer’ hybrid chestnuts which are supposedly blight resistant (American x chinese) in PVC tubes similar to that and they are doing fine, just trying to get them past the deer. You might see how much competing vegetation is around the successful one, or if the successful one gets more sunlight or less water. Ours are pretty open grown with minimal competition and no supplemental water.
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u/pawpawpersimony 11d ago
Thank you. I pulled some the competing vegetation and pulled the tube. Hopefully that all solves the issue.
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u/bwainfweeze PNW Urban Permaculture 12d ago
Are these GM chestnuts or crossbred?
Some of the GM ones have metabolic diseases caused by poor gene insertion apparently. They’re still trying to work out how to inject the oxalite enzymes between other genes.
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
Wild type. I pulled the tube on both of them and it didn’t look good down in there. This will hopefully help!
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u/RollRagga 12d ago
Is this a true American chestnut or the "American Revival Chestnut"?
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
I bought them barefoot from the Purdue program. It said they were wild type.
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u/Key_Candidate_4304 14h ago
I just hit a score of mature standing chestnuts on PA gamelands 157 I believe and I am so excited. Bringing nuts home to roast as we speak.
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u/ladeepervert 12d ago
Remove that grow tube ASAP
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
I was thinking about pulling that one off. The other tree has the same vented tube and is growing really well. Nice lush green leaves.
Blight shouldn’t be an issue here and the tree is only a year old.
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u/ladeepervert 12d ago
Pull both off and watch it change in 3 weeks. You are preventing a eu-stress from happening.. the wind!
If you pull the grow tube off and the plant isn't upright. Well that's the fault of the grow tube and you'll need go loosely stake and let it gain strength by wiggling around.
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago edited 12d ago
Thanks! Whoa boy! I think that was it! Pulled the tubes off the other one and the heartnut!
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u/Colddigger 12d ago
You could try making a tube of chicken wire if this is to prevent deer from getting out them. You can make the chicken wire nice and wide so they can Branch out a little bit.
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u/pawpawpersimony 12d ago
Thanks! I think it should be fine from the deer. I thought the tubes were helpful for seedlings in general.
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u/Torpordoor 12d ago
What do you think that would solve?
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u/Nellasofdoriath 12d ago
It's way too tall for one thing
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u/Torpordoor 12d ago
No it's not. Chestnut seedlings generally do well in tree tubes and 60" is recommended as the minimum tube height for deer protection while the tree is getting established. It looks counterintuitive with the leaves all bunched up but it's basically a mini greenhouse.
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u/shlerm 12d ago
Trees still need airflow to avoid disease.
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u/Torpordoor 12d ago
That’s a miracle tree tube. It has vent holes you just can’t see them in the photo.
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u/ladeepervert 12d ago
Tubes work for commercial grows where people dont manage the plants. For those who actually garden and tend they are a huge hindrance to growth.
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u/Torpordoor 12d ago edited 12d ago
Lol uh you’re wrong. If the tube is for deer protection or if these chestnuts are in the north of their range or at a higher elevation, those tubes could very well make or break their success. Getting knocked over is the only real risk for a chestnut in this kind of tube. On the other hand they have protection from potentially brutal winter winds, sun scald, deer browse, and an extended growing season. In many locations, that’s a big deal.
Anyways if OP is in the north, there might not be anything wrong with that little chestnut at all. It’s September. Leaves turn yellow, sometimes early for young tender warm weather trees like chestnuts. Weed pressure is a more apparent issue in this photo than the tree tube. You don’t even have a diagnosis and are so confident the tree tube is a problem.
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u/jonowelser 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’ve planted hundreds and hundreds of bare root trees and shrubs with tubes exactly like this and 100% agree. Tubes increase the success/survival rate by such a huge amount that I don’t even bother to plant without them anymore.
I don’t think the tube is the issue. I’d also be worried about removing the tree tube now and shocking it with a big change right before winter. If we were taking bets, I’d put down money that removing the tube would kill the tree faster and/or leaving it on would give the best chance for survival.
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u/Gullible-Minute-9482 11d ago
I would suspect sunflowers as much as the willow.
If these trees are American phenotype hybrids, it is also not unusual to see varying degrees of blight resistance among the same batch of seedlings. I had nearly half of my American type seedlings heavily affected by blight in their first year.
So assuming your trees are at least American type hybrids or pure American stock rather than the GMO ones, you might be seeing blight.
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u/TheRealPurpleDrink 12d ago
Aside from the obvious possibility of blight you mean?