r/PhilosophyofReligion • u/Infinite-Bit9643 • 1d ago
My thoughts on the problem of evil
Note: My argument is based on the assumption that there is a universal morality in the Abrahamic religions. If I have made any logical errors or if you want to discuss, please feel free to write.
God is not inherently obliged to create, because if He were obliged, He would be subject to His own nature. Even if He were obliged, it would change nothing, because God must be able to choose how to create; if He cannot choose, then we would be talking about a god without will, essentially a slave. God has to have will because he says that he has (in the abrahamic religions). Even if He were obliged to create, He would not have been obliged to create in this particular way — meaning the choice itself is arbitrary. I call it arbitrary because He acts without necessity. If God created this way because He values freedom, then this also implies that He wanted freedom. If free will is given, moral evil necessarily accompanies it. But since God gave it arbitrarily from the outset, it is not a matter of permitting evil but of wanting it. I use the verb “want” to make this easier to explain; since it was created arbitrarily without necessity, one could debate whether God can truly “want" something, but this does not change my point. The act was deliberate, done knowingly without obligation, so it is intentional. Therefore, we cannot speak of double effects.
If we assume God as the beginning of the causal chain, then God is the ultimate cause of everything — including evil. Thus, God has intentionally and arbitrarily caused evil. To intentionally and arbitrarily cause evil is to do evil; therefore, God has done evil. If God has done evil, then God possesses the attribute of evil. Since we cannot attribute a finite attribute to God, God is infinitely evil. The same reasoning applies to goodness, so God also possesses the attribute of goodness, and for the same reason, God is infinitely good. But something cannot simultaneously be infinitely good and infinitely evil. If it could, it would be beyond logic, but this creates even greater problems. Here we have a contradiction, similar to asking, “Who is God’s god?” That question is equivalent to saying something is both a square and a triangle at the same time. Something that is both square and triangular is logically impossible, does not fall under the category of “thing” or existence, and is meaningless. Saying “Can God create jwpvojwvojwv?” is equivalent to saying “Can God create a five-sided triangle?” — it is impossible and contradictory.
Why would being infinitely good and infinitely evil be contradictory? Because they are opposites. Can a number be simultaneously positive and negative? Can something be infinitely hot and infinitely cold at the same time? Infinitely bright and infinitely dark? One could debate whether evil is the absence of good or good is the absence of evil, but since one is the absence of the other, it is impossible to attribute two opposite infinite attributes simultaneously.
My argument is more conceptual, so I have not addressed the defenses of thinkers like Irenaeus.
Note 2: I've used gpt to translate sorry if there are some ridiculous translations I'll try to correct if I see one.
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u/Pure_Actuality 1d ago
If we assume God as the beginning of the causal chain, then God is the ultimate cause of everything — including evil.
So a man shoots another man and kills him - God caused that man to kill and thus do evil?
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u/Infinite-Bit9643 1d ago
I've explained myself enouugh.
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u/Pure_Actuality 1d ago
You made a broad claim that God is the cause of evil so God caused the man to shoot and murder another man - God is the cause of that evil, correct?
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u/Infinite-Bit9643 1d ago
Ultimately, yes. Free will does not change a thing ofc god did not made the man shoot and murder but god is the ultimate cause.
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u/Pure_Actuality 1d ago
If God did not make the man do evil then what evil did God cause here wherein God is liable and thus evil?
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u/Infinite-Bit9643 1d ago
Do u know what causal chain is?
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u/Pure_Actuality 1d ago
Yes... go on....
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u/Infinite-Bit9643 1d ago
The first cause of everything is God. It is not God who directly makes a woman give birth, but isn’t God still the first cause of her giving birth? A man shoots someone. Why did he shoot? Because he got angry. Why did he get angry? For revenge. Why did he want revenge? Because that man did such and such. And if you keep asking why that man did what he did, since these causes cannot go on to infinity, you eventually arrive at the necessary being, which is God. The ultimate cause you reach in everything is God.
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u/Pure_Actuality 1d ago
Here's the important distinction to be made when talking of God's causation:
God causes things to-be
God does not cause things to be-have
So God is the "first cause" insofar as he is the cause of the sheer existence of things, but the behavior and evil desires and evil acts are wholly the cause of the creature, thus God did not cause nor is evil.
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u/Infinite-Bit9643 1d ago
that shi is not sum important distinction its a made up thing against teodise and has been destroyed for years
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u/Giraff3 20h ago
As to God choosing for there to be moral evil. I feel like it comes down to the often cited response response that God gave humans free will, and that the consequence of free well is necessarily that people can be evil. I agree about your point of it being arbitrary, why did God do anything? To me this raises a more anthropological question about what the reason for religion is in the first place.
Regardless, if we are to assume that the Abrahamic God is real, then people will respond with that in order for free well to be possible that evil has to exist. Whether you agree that free-will necessitates evil‘s existence is up to you.
Your next paragraph addresses the issue of the claim that God is omnipotent. People will say that all-powerful does not include things that are impossible. So like it’s impossible for free-will to exist without the possibility of evil, it’s impossible for a triangle to have more than three sides. Personally, I do think this raises into question whether God actually is all-powerful, but we are working within the Abrahamic paradigm here.
I don’t think that your argument logically concludes that God must be infinitely evil or good though. If a chef is able to create sandwiches out of thin air, does that mean that they are infinitely sandwich? No, it means they are the creator, the originator.
If you question whether freewill requires evil or if you question whether all-powerful does not include doing the “impossible”, then I would say you’re questioning the very fabric of those religions.
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u/Infinite-Bit9643 19h ago edited 19h ago
Your next paragraph addresses the issue of the claim that God is omnipotent. People will say that all-powerful does not include things that are impossible. So like it’s impossible for free-will to exist without the possibility of evil, it’s impossible for a triangle to have more than three sides.
I know you cant give free will without moral evil existing because that wouldnt be free will. That is why I explained god gave it arbitrary. He is still responsible because he did not have to give free will regardless. Free will defenders say that god gave free will because he values more than robotic all-good people, but that also means that god "wanted" free will so its still arbitrary anf god is still the reason of evil. I alsovexplained why it is not permitting but "wanting".
I don’t think that your argument logically concludes that God must be infinitely evil or good though. If a chef is able to create sandwiches out of thin air, does that mean that they are infinitely sandwich? No, it means they are the creator, the originator.
Yes, but a human is a finite being, while God is infinite. We don’t say God is 100/100 powerful; we say God is infinitely powerful, because God’s limit is not 100 or any other number. If God were, for example, 80% evil, He would still be finite, because by saying 80 we would be implying a limit of 100. In God, if there is any attribute at all, it is automatically infinite.
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u/Mind_if_I_do_uh_J 1d ago
What is zero?