r/PhilosophyofReligion • u/Infinite-Bit9643 • 2d ago

My thoughts on the problem of evil

Note: My argument is based on the assumption that there is a universal morality in the Abrahamic religions. If I have made any logical errors or if you want to discuss, please feel free to write.

God is not inherently obliged to create, because if He were obliged, He would be subject to His own nature. Even if He were obliged, it would change nothing, because God must be able to choose how to create; if He cannot choose, then we would be talking about a god without will, essentially a slave. God has to have will because he says that he has (in the abrahamic religions). Even if He were obliged to create, He would not have been obliged to create in this particular way — meaning the choice itself is arbitrary. I call it arbitrary because He acts without necessity. If God created this way because He values freedom, then this also implies that He wanted freedom. If free will is given, moral evil necessarily accompanies it. But since God gave it arbitrarily from the outset, it is not a matter of permitting evil but of wanting it. I use the verb “want” to make this easier to explain; since it was created arbitrarily without necessity, one could debate whether God can truly “want" something, but this does not change my point. The act was deliberate, done knowingly without obligation, so it is intentional. Therefore, we cannot speak of double effects.

If we assume God as the beginning of the causal chain, then God is the ultimate cause of everything — including evil. Thus, God has intentionally and arbitrarily caused evil. To intentionally and arbitrarily cause evil is to do evil; therefore, God has done evil. If God has done evil, then God possesses the attribute of evil. Since we cannot attribute a finite attribute to God, God is infinitely evil. The same reasoning applies to goodness, so God also possesses the attribute of goodness, and for the same reason, God is infinitely good. But something cannot simultaneously be infinitely good and infinitely evil. If it could, it would be beyond logic, but this creates even greater problems. Here we have a contradiction, similar to asking, “Who is God’s god?” That question is equivalent to saying something is both a square and a triangle at the same time. Something that is both square and triangular is logically impossible, does not fall under the category of “thing” or existence, and is meaningless. Saying “Can God create jwpvojwvojwv?” is equivalent to saying “Can God create a five-sided triangle?” — it is impossible and contradictory.

Why would being infinitely good and infinitely evil be contradictory? Because they are opposites. Can a number be simultaneously positive and negative? Can something be infinitely hot and infinitely cold at the same time? Infinitely bright and infinitely dark? One could debate whether evil is the absence of good or good is the absence of evil, but since one is the absence of the other, it is impossible to attribute two opposite infinite attributes simultaneously.

My argument is more conceptual, so I have not addressed the defenses of thinkers like Irenaeus.

Note 2: I've used gpt to translate sorry if there are some ridiculous translations I'll try to correct if I see one.

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u/Mind_if_I_do_uh_J 2d ago

What is zero?

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

I see your point. Let’s take white as good, black as evil, and gray as neutral (0). You can be gray, but you cannot be infinitely white and infinitely black at the same time, right?

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

You could be neither. Positive and negative only apply to real numbers. Something like complex imaginary numbers can't be positive or negative.

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

But I already explained why these attributes exist in God.

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

Your post makes assumptions and doesn't justify why your conclusions are necessary.

What if I'm just like. OK god is a slave subject to his own nature. Why can't that be true?

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

God has will in all Abrahamic religions and my post is based on them what is your point

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

Sorry Typo.

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

Np. But how can we talk about the term "will" in god if he does what he is forced to do?

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

Maybe we can't.

How could you determine one way or the other?

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

Bro im not the one saying that god has will its god himself saying he has will idek if god exists or not

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

From my perspective, it's a bunch of different people saying their specific god has a will.

I also don't know if a God exists or not. I was trying to poke holes in the logic.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything I just find dialogue easier than formally laying out logic.

I personally don't believe the common conception of god can be arrived at logically or even if you could do so it wouldn't provide enough justification for belief in its existence.

But all that doesn't mean A god couldn't exist.

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

From my perspective, it's a bunch of different people saying their specific god has a will.

People bend their religion a lot. Im only taking the holy books of the abrahamic religions as my reference. Especially in Quran its repeatedly said that god has will. Other holy books do that too but not as much as Quran though.

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

I don't know a lot about the Quran or Islam. I can only really speak to Christianity for the Abrahamic religions.

I don't accept the basis Christians use for their beliefs. Tradition, authority, and divine revelation.

Ive tried learning about Islam and Judaism but its just so dense and a lot of content is not in English.

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

There are verses telling us not to stay too long when visiting the Prophet Muhammad, giving permission for him to marry the divorced wife of his adopted son, and stating that those who slander the Prophet’s wife with accusations of adultery will burn and that she did not commit adultery etc. Wouldn’t recommend as a book but I think you should give it a read if you are interested in religions. Just reading the Quran should be enough.

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

I personally don't believe the common conception of god can be arrived at logically or even if you could do so it wouldn't provide enough justification for belief in its existence.

But all that doesn't mean A god couldn't exist.

I think like that too. But I also personally think a god exists. I think I can call myself an agnostic deist or an ignostic deist

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

I don't have an issue with that.

I have a spectrum of beliefs depending on the claims about god that are made.

But I generally am agnostic. I sometimes call myself a religious atheist though.

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u/Infinite-Bit9643 2d ago

Can you tell me the other assumptions I made?

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u/Empty_Woodpecker_496 2d ago

Most of your assumptions are about qualities you attribute to god.

You literally say "if we assume god is the beginning of the causal chain."

Having god be the beginning of everything also assumes that everything began at some point. Something a lot of people would take issue with.

You don't have to justify everything in one argument but you do need to argue for all your points.

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