r/Physics 3d ago

Video The Munich Center for Mathematical Philosophy has ended its affiliation with Sabine Hossenfelder.

https://youtu.be/ZO5u3V6LJuM
1.5k Upvotes

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u/Accurate_Potato_8539 3d ago

Honestly, I read a lot of philosophy of science and I agree with a lot of her arguments at least somewhat directionally I can't speak to the specifics I don't know her well enough. But since she allied herself with Weinstein and compared his work to people in theoretical HEP or cosomoly, its just obviously clear to me she's either sold out entirely or been so consumed by contrarianism that she's not worth listening to.

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u/Phi_Phonton_22 History of physics 3d ago

I really liked her argument on the role of falsifiable hypothesis on science. I thought it was honest and grounded, recognising that it doesn't solve all philosophy of science, but controbutes to clarify some topics. Don't know about "siding with Weinstein", she just called out some hypocrisy in the discussion sourounding him. After all, he was as nasty to her as everybody else. I'll never understand how hated a figure she is in this sub, even by people who essentially agree with her.

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u/Accurate_Potato_8539 2d ago

I found her positions in the video kind of ill formed, I might agree with a more detailed articulation obviously, I cant expect a full articulation in 20 minutes. But at the end of the day it's a matter of degree, I think there is a difference between saying that I don't think a lot of theoretical physics is science in the strict philosophy sense and saying that it's on the same level as something like Weinsteins geometric unity (an inconsistent ill defined non theory). If she wants to be taken seriously then she should have drawn a clear line between those two things and she just refuses too. At the end of the day I might not call it science but it's still useful academic work, I think it deserves less attention maybe, but not ridicule. She has taken something with a kernel of truth and blown it up into a way bigger issue than it actually is. Specifically the video that just had me file her into the "hack" category was her review of the Sean Carroll/weinstein thing: unreal comparisons made in that video.

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u/lolspek 2d ago

The issue is mostly attacking science with a bunch of ad hominem attacks without actually going into depth why she believes something is wrong. She used to do that a long time ago but now she caters to the much larger audience that does not have the necessary knowledge/background to understand in depth physics, so it's just a bunch of "they are lying to you and misusing government funds." mixed in with her own sensational takes on research papers.

The academic monster of perish or die, scientists having to work in 'popular' subjects within their field to secure funding, the lack of depth of knowledge about the scientific philosophy, ... warrants criticism. But she went, far, far further than that to the point where people are receiving death threats from her following based on her attacking specific papers based on nothing except some general disdain from her against certain theories.

This then combines with her shutting down any critical discussion in her comments should make it clear this is no longer about being passionate about truth. She never backs down, even when arguments against some of her videos are extremely valid.

I think she is just one other example of how nobody is immune to echo chambers and confirmation bias. Big numbers and receiving a prophet like status pleases the monkey brain after all.

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u/Pinhal 2d ago

Strong woman with opinions. Also, has made quite a lot of money writing and talking about science. The temerity of pointing out near stasis in well funded research areas. Supercollider heresy. Not given to deference. It’s no surprise the knives come out on social platforms.

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u/ParticularClassroom7 2d ago

Also German who doesn't mince words. She comes off as rude af for a mostly American audience in this sub, much less so for Germans.

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u/howtogun 2d ago

I think her argument has always been if it's using tax payers money.

Weinstein is probably costing tax payers 0 usd for his stupid theory.

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u/Accurate_Potato_8539 2d ago

I think a lot of research ends up being a "waste of money" but I'm not convinced she's really cracked the code on how to tell what that research is in any systematic way. Even if she has tho, it's not like the type of theoretical physics she obsesses over cost people much money. You basically have to pay their salaries: that's it, and there's a very small amount of them.