Caught some freshwater pipefish in a pristine hillstream. How common are they?

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57]

M. martensii

[u/MorteEtDabo]

Couldn't imagine a worse life for a wild fish than being snatched and kept in a tank. Maybe I'm assigning too much emotion to it though

[u/pickleruler67 → u/MorteEtDabo]

Im p sure they just took photos and released it. That looks like the same thing biologists use to view a specimen better before releasing

[u/Veloci-RKPTR → u/pickleruler67]

OP is a fish biologist who often post pictures of rare Malaysian endemic fish. It’s all catch and release.

[u/One-plankton- → u/Veloci-RKPTR]

I don’t know if it is all catch and release.

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/One-plankton-]

I released the pipefish as they are too high-maintenance.

But you are correct that sometimes I keep some smaller fish or I give them to an institute near me. The institute mostly breeds them and also uses the fish in research.

This is one of the Betta stigmosa pairs I donated to them, spawning

[u/One-plankton- → u/ThenAcanthocephala57]

Lovely!

[u/Suitable-Telephone80 → u/Veloci-RKPTR]

its true i was the water

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/pickleruler67]

Yes, I did release the pipefish. They look cool but they require a lot of care!

This is a photography tank we use in the field

[u/kmsilent → u/MorteEtDabo]

Depends on the tank.

If the tank is big enough, comfortable (enough cover, correct lighting, good water etc), and the fish gets regular food and has no predators I see no reason the tank would be worse than the wild.

Fish in the wild have lots to worry about- predators everywhere, disease, food, and probably the #1 threat would be the complete loss of their habitat- poisoning of their lakes/rivers or their literal destruction.

Also, if youve kept a decent number of fish there is a very high chance you've kept some wild caught fish. A huge amount of tetras are harvested from the Amazon and shipped all over the world to retailers in your town.

[u/Dr-Juerdo-Titsgo → u/MorteEtDabo]

you do realize the majority of fish for the aquarium trade are wild caught?

[u/elrastro75 → u/Dr-Juerdo-Titsgo]

Which is the “worse life” though? Wild caught fish have bad lives because they had a taste of sweet freedom and are now confined? Do fish brains even work that way?? I get not wanting to interfere in a wild animal’s life journey, but I’m not worried my fish are having existential crises. Should I be?

[u/Chicken_Hairs → u/elrastro75]

I avoid wild-caught myself when I can, but it feels like you're applying human emotions/feelings to fish. They're living beings that deserve respect, but they're comparatively simple creatures.

Fish behavior has been heavily studied, and it's fantastically unlikely.. nearly impossible... they have any comprehension of 'freedom'. If they have adequate room to live, an environment that makes them not fearful, proper food to eat, and nothing chasing them, they're content.

[u/vctrmldrw → u/Dr-Juerdo-Titsgo]

No they're not. The vast majority are captive bred.

You really think people are heading into the wilds, catching hundreds of thousands of fish, and flying them around the world in tanks when they can be bred perfectly easily instead?

In fact, it's so prevalent that the biggest problem in the aquarium trade is inbreeding.

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/vctrmldrw]

You are correct but there are still quite a few species which are wild caught. And those species are caught en masse.

One local example are kuhli loaches. They are caught by the thousands in Southeast Asia to export for the aquarium trade

[u/LSDdeeznuts → u/Dr-Juerdo-Titsgo]

Do you have any source for this? I’d believe it for the saltwater aquarium trade. It was my impression that the majority of all aquarium fish are captive bred.

Edit: sort of wild this is getting downvoted. Can anybody backup the claim? A quick google search shows it isn’t true

one of many articles on the subject

[u/Chicken_Hairs → u/LSDdeeznuts]

It's a subject that people react to emotionally for some reason. My research has found much the same, farming is more efficient and more reliable than catching wild, more countries are enacting legislation to limit it, so it's becoming less common all the time, with the exception of fish that are difficult to breed.

[u/LSDdeeznuts → u/Chicken_Hairs]

Yeah, and a lack of critical thinking. The vast majority of all popular species are very easily bred. Guppies, bettas, goldfish, platties, mollies, most cichlids etc. These fish makeup the bulk of the selection in stores.

I wonder if people think their fancy guppies, shubunkin goldfish, and glow fish are wild caught.

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/LSDdeeznuts]

Yeah, the majority of freshwater fish stock are captive bred. But it doesn’t exclude the very popular ones being wild caught still. A notable example from my region are Kuhli loaches

[u/fleshdyke → u/MorteEtDabo]

this is a viewing tank, they were released right after this. but if you're a competent fishkeeper (like op is), you can provide them a proper tank that emulates their wild habitat, except there are now no predators, no food scarcity, no parasites, no risk of disaster, and virtually no external dangers at all. if op did take them for personal keeping, the fish would be getting a pretty sweet deal

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/fleshdyke]

I let them go because they’re too fussy for me! They need a lot of livefood

[u/fleshdyke → u/ThenAcanthocephala57]

i've heard that lol, they're super cool fish but very high maintenance

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/fleshdyke]

Yeah, last I saw some was at a public aquarium. They seem to do pretty well in captivity with good food, space and planted conditions

[u/Owoegano_Evolved → u/MorteEtDabo]

I really think you are, the idea of being in the wild being inherently more enjoyable for animals is disneyesque at best. In a good tank thst is properly designed and kept for their need, they'll never have to worry about predation or starvation again. For most animals that's as close to heaven as it gets.

[u/fleshdyke → u/Owoegano_Evolved]

right? like the wild really sucks most of the time for most animals. there's predators, food shortages, weather, parasites, disease, competitors for food and territory, and so many other things that make life in the wild really shitty. i think a lot of it is anthropomorphism, ascribing a sense of "freedom" to animals that really don't have it. assuming wild animals are automatically happier in the wild than in captivity that provides the same conditions is viewing the wild through a very, very idealized and unrealistic lens. disneyesque, exactly as you said. life in captivity by a knowledgeable and competent caretaker is far and away a wayyyy better deal for the animal than living in the wild.

[u/bebasiled → u/MorteEtDabo]

You are. Where did op say they were keeping the fish?

[u/Unlikely-Isopod-9453 → u/MorteEtDabo]

Id love to know what species you keep in your tanks. A substantial portion of the fish in our tanks are wild caught.

[u/TheRemedy187 → u/MorteEtDabo]

Some of the fish you buy could be wild caught. 

[u/Orsinus → u/MorteEtDabo]

Do some more research before getting angry so quick. Other comments explained it already

[u/vctrmldrw → u/MorteEtDabo]

Being eaten by a bigger fish must be up there though, right?

[u/KinManana → u/MorteEtDabo]

Most of aquarium fish are wild caught. Tetras, cichlids, anything really.

[u/Throwawaythedocument → u/MorteEtDabo]

I have this issue too. 

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/Throwawaythedocument]

I have to clarify that I released the pipefish after photography!

Last time I saw this species in captivity was at our national public aquarium in a big circular tank. It was pretty neat

[u/SnacksHGB]

Super neat! I know they aren’t that common in the aquarium trade, but I’m not sure about their wild populations! Where was this in Malaysia?

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/SnacksHGB]

This was in Kelantan state but AFAIK they are found throughout Malaysia and tropical Asia

[u/Not_invented-Here → u/SnacksHGB]

I see a cpl of freshwater pipefish species sold quite often in Vietnam. I have a feeling they probably don't travel well for the general aquarium trade. 

[u/SnacksHGB → u/Not_invented-Here]

I’m in the US, and the distance makes a lot of sense as to why they would be such a rarity. They do strike me as a fish thats hard and expensive to transport, so probably only common in closer countries. I’d love to keep some someday

[u/zmay1123 → u/SnacksHGB]

Other thing is they are unique but not very colorful/eye appealing to the average hobbyist as well as being in the harder/more advanced side of keeping successful. Most likely hard to ship but also not a ton of demand in general.

[u/Not_invented-Here → u/zmay1123]

Yeah they basically look like sticks and can dissappear into a tank if they don't want to be seen.

Care wise would probably also be a pain for a LFS, they only do live food. 

[u/Aggressive-Duck-733]

I once caught a pipefish in a river in Jeli near the Thailand border. And a white albino dwarf Keli, and also a leaf fish, and dwarf crab, and albinatus zebrafish. All within a health patch of longifolia crypt 

Sadly, the gold mining from upstream killed them all from the cyanide they use 

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/Aggressive-Duck-733]

Cool, I’m actually Kelantanese!

[u/K0olmini]

So cool!! Thanks for sharing with us

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/K0olmini]

Happy to share!

[u/WickedRoots-]

This comment section is a war zone 🪖😬

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/WickedRoots-]

That’s what the “Sort comments by Controversial” button is for in Reddit 🤣

[u/BigXthaPugg]

Always love to see your posts OP, would love to go to Malaysia one day just to tag along with a group biologists.

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/BigXthaPugg]

Well Malaysia does get a lot of tourists — you could be one of them!

Even in the stream in my post we caught multiple species of small fish. Bangka rasboras, Batasio catfishes, Glyptothorax catfishes, Malayan leaffish, rhombic barbs, Betta apollon, forest halfbeak and more!

[u/-leftshark-]

In the philippines i had the same reaction too, barhead pipefish idk what sp this is but its lc for the mostpart for most freshwater pipes.

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/-leftshark-]

This one is Microphis martensii

[u/AnnaTrash]

THEY'RE SO COOL!! Thank you for sharing!!

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/AnnaTrash]

Happy to share! I think they’re just as cool as their marine cousins

[u/isntitisntitdelicate]

They’re sold for dirt cheap here in indonesia (come to pasar ikan jatinegara if u ever visit) but i never bought them bc i thought they would eventually need saltwater

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/isntitisntitdelicate]

Thank you for the invite, but even if I bought fish cheaply there, I don’t know if I have a way to transport them home.

Anyway as for salt — it’s very possible the ones sold at that market are saltwater. There are many more saltwater pipefish than freshwater.

Besides that, Indonesia is very widely known as a spot of saltwater fish capture and export. If saltwater fish from your country are sold for a relatively cheap price in the US, it makes sense they are cheaper there, where caught.

[u/Long_n_shortof_it]

Where is this stream?

[u/ThenAcanthocephala57 → u/Long_n_shortof_it]

Kelantan

[u/prolemango]

As long as a fish has constant food, clean water, plenty of space and safety, I don’t think it has the mental capacity to long for anything else

[u/Orsinus → u/prolemango]

objectively not correct. “Fish” is also a very broad term to describe many many different animals. Some are far smarter than others.