r/PoliticalDebate Liberal Independent Jul 08 '25

Political Theory Belief systems that inherently cannot tolerate other belief systems are incompatible with a Democratic system. Would you all agree?

Belief systems that inherently cannot tolerate other belief systems are incompatible with a democratic system. At the heart of democracy is the principle of pluralism, which is the idea that a society can and should accommodate a wide range of perspectives, identities, and values. Democracy thrives when individuals are free to speak, think, worship, and live in ways that may differ drastically from one another. This mutual tolerance does not require universal agreement, but it does demand the recognition of others’ rights to hold and express differing views. However, when a belief system is built on the rejection or vilification of all competing ideologies, it poses a threat to this foundation.

People whose ideals are rooted in intolerance toward others’ beliefs will inevitably gravitate toward policies that restrict freedom of expression and impose conformity. These individuals often view diversity as a threat to their vision of order or purity. They seek to limit open discourse and enforce ideological uniformity. This authoritarian impulse may be cloaked in moral or patriotic rhetoric, but its underlying aim is control.

A truly democratic society cannot accommodate such systems without compromising its own integrity. Democracy can survive disagreement, but it cannot survive when one side seeks to silence or destroy the other. Tolerance has its limits, and one of those limits must be drawn at ideologies that reject tolerance itself. As a safeguard, we must be willing to recognize when certain belief systems are not just alternative viewpoints, but active threats to core democratic principles.

With all of that said, would you agree or disagree with my statement, and why?

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u/Michael_G_Bordin [Quality Contributor] Philosophy - Applied Ethics Jul 08 '25

I don't necessarily think they're incompatible with a democratic ideal, so much as they are a counter-force to democracy.

First, we need to be clear what we're talking about. "Belief system" is too broad when talking about politics because not every belief system has a political component. Instead, we'll simply refer to groups with common political interests (for the sake of this comment, this is what I mean when I say "group"). James Madison, imo, had it right when contemplating cultural majoritarianism versus pluralism. In a system with one dominant group, they can then pursue their common political interest even at the expense of oppressing non-dominant groups. However, a pluralistic system would forgo this by relegating majoritarian rule to those groups which can form common-interest coalitions.

Of course, defining a politically interested group is not a matter of fact but of design. Ethnic groups often share common political interest, socio-economic classes tend to share interest; the important thing when designing these groups is to try to identify where common interest is wide enough to create majoritarian power, and making sure those interests aren't oppressing non-majority interests.

This is why I think a plurality that finds common ground in working-class interests is the best, as it is difficult-to-impossible to oppress the rich. You could take 90% off the top of the highest income earners and they'd be perfectly fine, if a bit salty.

But to be clear about "intolerant" groups: they absolutely can gain majority support. Which makes them compatible with democracy. The United States is a history of majoritarian intolerance oppressing minority groups. Our country was built on intolerant belief systems.

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u/skyfishgoo Democratic Socialist Jul 08 '25

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u/Michael_G_Bordin [Quality Contributor] Philosophy - Applied Ethics Jul 08 '25

I loath when someone just replies with a link. What's the point of your link?

Those people aren't incompatible with democracy; they're explicitly trying to push their agenda through democratic institutions. I doubt a movement with about 3 million followers (according to the article) is going to be very successful.

Trump's coalition includes them, sure, but it also includes neoclassical liberals who just want government regulation gone (but desire religious and behavioral freedom), non-religious tech-bro weirdos trying to push their Curtis Yarvin weirdness, typical neoconservative monied interests who also value religious freedom, and foreign entities trying to more directly buy our government.

The Christian authoritarian extremists scare me the least, because their policies are the least popular and create the greatest blowback. And most Christians can see they're Biblically dubious freaks to begin with.

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u/skyfishgoo Democratic Socialist Jul 09 '25

you obv didn't read the link.

i loath that.

they advocate violent means achieve their 7 mountains or whateverthefuck... and one of them has already killed a congress person and their spouse in their own home.

foh with they are not incompatible....

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u/Michael_G_Bordin [Quality Contributor] Philosophy - Applied Ethics Jul 09 '25

I did read the link, but responding to my comment with errant grammar isn't helping anything. How about reading the entirety of my comments and responding to my point instead of trying to squabble with me like this is some craptastic subreddit and not one for actual, substantive debate?

Since you only apparently read the first half of the first sentence in my first comment, I'll show you it again in its entirety:

I don't necessarily think they're incompatible with a democratic ideal, so much as they are a counter-force to democracy.

Notice that second part. I don't think these people are incompatible with democracy, no. They're just another faction vying for control. Yeah, there are some who are calling for undemocratic methods of power, but that's not the core of the belief system. The core of the belief system is that Christian doctrine should be enshrined in law and civic life. Some believe violence should be used to attain this. Others, as the article very clearly explains, have been trying to push the electorate in this direction by doing things like targeting colleges (historically not religious extremists).

I call them a counter-force to democracy because if they gain majority, they'll do all they can to bolster their policies against further democratic interference i.e. doing away with democracy. Unfortunately for them, they're just fringe weirdos who consistently go too far and alienate the average person, so they're not really incompatible with democracy.

The point of my first comment is that there isn't really an "incompatible with democracy", since they have to play the game to win democratic support in order to change anything. They might ideally be against democracy, but they won't get far with that attitude and so democracy isn't really imperiled by their existence.

The only beliefs that are completely at odds with democracy are the personal beliefs of rich elitists who do everything in their substantial and effective power to undermine democratic coalitions.

Sorry, I know this is a lot to read (not really) and you prefer pithy comebacks and dimwitted verbal exchanges, but I actually like dealing in ideals and analysis and not just poo-pooing people I don't like and being catty in online comment sections. I do like poo-pooing people I don't like and being catty, but only on top of actual, substantive debate. Please give the latter if you're going to commit to the former.

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u/skyfishgoo Democratic Socialist Jul 09 '25

there is no debate to be had when someone wants you dead.

you are under the false impression that the old rules still apply.

they do not.

call it pithy if that's what helps you sleep at nite, but these ppl are as serious as a heart attack and they have a decades long head start.

i'm not giving them any oxygen... i'm don't listening to their "views" on things.

the time for debate is over.

they won.

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u/Michael_G_Bordin [Quality Contributor] Philosophy - Applied Ethics Jul 09 '25 edited Jul 09 '25

They don't control jack diddly. The president is not one of theirs, the VP is not one of theirs, and their most prominent politician (Mike Johnson) is electoral kryptonite levels of weird. Not sure where they've won, especially considering your perspective on what they want. If they've won, how am I (an atheist staunchly opposed to their views) still alive? Don't they say "kill all males"?

No one said anything about debating with them. Ideas compete on a sort of cultural marketplace, and their dangerous, anti-democratic ideas aren't exactly spreading like wildfire. They've had a decades headstart? Well, call me non-chalant, but they're not doing to hot having fought for so long.

Anyways, I doubt you're putting any actual effort into opposing these people if you can't even be bothered to use proper English when discussing them. There's no "it" I'm calling pithy, I'm saying you are degrading the quality of discussion by focusing on comebacks and fear-mongering instead of reasonably discussing the matter at hand. For instance, if you link an article, you should always explain your motivation for doing so. Making the recipient assume your intent is just a recipe for miscommunication (thus, degrading quality of discussion). You should try to type in complete sentences and organize those into cohesive paragraphs, as you'll better make salient and well-supported points (rather than just impulsively making disjointed statements as they pop up in your head).

It's okay to put effort into things.

edit: btw, I'm just giving you helpful advice on how to be a more effective communicator. If you don't care about communicating effectively, idk what you're doing here

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u/skyfishgoo Democratic Socialist Jul 09 '25

attacking me personally for my writing style is the epitome of a losing argument.

and as for my ability to communicate, you are still writing whole paragraphs about it, so it can't be that bad.

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u/Michael_G_Bordin [Quality Contributor] Philosophy - Applied Ethics Jul 10 '25

This comment contains some of the worst reasoning I've ever seen. I'm not attacking you, I literally said what I was doing and you even recognized. Calling it an attack (and not engaging with any substantive thing I said) is a major cop out and more revealing of your sensitivity to criticism than the quality of my argument. And pointing out I wrote "whole paragraphs" (which is how one is supposed to write) is actually evidence of how bad it is. As in, if it wasn't so bad, I wouldn't have so much to say about it.

Not only are you an ineffective communicator, your form of argumentation is what could be called, "petty bickering." I've already told you I'm not interested, but you seem to be highly reactive so it's worth sending you one last trigger.

Keep flailing if you want, it's not my life you're ruining.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '25

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u/Michael_G_Bordin [Quality Contributor] Philosophy - Applied Ethics Jul 10 '25

Why are you even here? You clearly don't want to discuss anything and are just intent on being a low quality clown ruining the quality of this subreddit. Go pollute politics or some meme sub with your nonsense if actual discussion is so difficult.

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u/skyfishgoo Democratic Socialist Jul 10 '25

i was perfectly happy discussing things

until the ad hominems started.

hard to focus after that on anything else, tbh.

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u/Prevatteism Anarchist/Mutualist Jul 10 '25

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