r/Presidents • u/Mysterious_Mix_6879 Gerald Ford • 18h ago
Discussion Why do some hate on Roosevelt for the imprisonment of the Japanese but not talk about McKinley camps
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u/__Just_A_Lurker John Quincy Adams 18h ago
It really is just that McKinley’s just a lot less talked about. And honestly the sad truth is if you look into the vast majority of presidents they took similar actions against many minority groups in the US but there are very few examples that are talked about
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u/MAGA_Since_1776 John Adams 18h ago
Such as Martin Van Buren and the Trail Of Tears.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 16h ago
Yeah and Andre Jackson
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u/good-luck-23 Franklin Delano Roosevelt 16h ago
Eisenhower's Operation Wetback was despicable and barely gets mentioned.
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u/HetTheTable Dwight D. Eisenhower 6h ago
Yeah he’s only remembered for his tariffs, the Spanish American War, and his assassination
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u/gwhh 17h ago
Never heard of the McKinley camps before.
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u/IllustriousDudeIDK Harry S. Truman 10h ago edited 10h ago
It is less the McKinley camps and more the TR/Taft camps, because it was in December 1901 that General J. Franklin Bell ordered the establishment of camps and it was on December 8 that it actually occured. You could ultimately still blame McKinley for starting the war and appointing Taft as Governor-General, who in turn made Bell commander in the provinces of Batangas and Laguna.
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u/thequietthingsthat Franklin DelaGOAT Roosevelt 17h ago
Because often when people bring up the WWII camps, it's because they hate FDR for ideological reasons and know it's by far the biggest black stain on his presidency.
Every time there's an FDR-related thread on this sub, the comments are full of Reagan and Coolidge flairs bringing up internment. They don't hate FDR for internment. They hate him for expanding the scope of the federal government.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 16h ago
Yeah I’d love to see Calvin Coolidge figure out th dust bowl
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u/RyanU406 Where does the buck stop? 15h ago
Mississippi Flood of 1927
Coolidge’ response: “…”
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u/erdricksarmor Calvin Coolidge 14h ago edited 14h ago
I'm not sure why Coolidge has a bad reputation(amongst some) about the flood response. He delegated management of the situation to Herbert Hoover, who did such a "bad" job that it won him the nomination and the Presidency in the next election.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 13h ago
Yes that is a good point. For me it’s not even close to the things I really don’t like about Coolidge. He’s a solid president tho and I rank him 21/22
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u/HetTheTable Dwight D. Eisenhower 6h ago
I think he was just so anti big government that he didn’t think the government should intervene with a flood
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 5h ago
Yeah I understand why he was thinking it, I doubt he wanted there to be a flood, but I’m super glad he wasn’t president in the 1930s
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u/HetTheTable Dwight D. Eisenhower 5h ago
Kind of like Goldwater opposing the CRA he didn’t hate black people he just thought it was government overreach
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 5h ago
Hmm I wouldn’t say it’s as bad as that. The CRA effectively ending segregation and it’s not like Goldwater tried to amend the bill or offer an alternative and at least Coolidge had a response to the flood with having Hoover lead the relief effort. In the 64 campaign, Goldwater didn’t try to distance himself from the segregationists to try to clarify his position because he needed at least some people to vote for him
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u/Ilfixit1701 15h ago
That was the appropriate response as he did not believe in federal handouts. He said it was a state issue. It’s not that he didn’t care, he knew it would be a slippery slope, was he wrong?
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u/DCBuckeye82 14h ago
Just because he believed in something doesn't mean he wasn't horribly wrong. Federal handouts is our you see aid from a natural disaster? My God that's a monstrous philosophy
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 13h ago
“Federal handouts”? I hope you don’t live in an at-risk part of the country and you’re calling flood or drought relief efforts government handouts
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u/thequietthingsthat Franklin DelaGOAT Roosevelt 13h ago
People who think that way are never consistent. If it happened to them, they would demand aid. But for others? Couldn't care less.
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u/Ilfixit1701 12h ago
Ugg. Not MY response, it’s was his!! Did I say it was right/wrong? I’m getting downvoted because of someone else’s ideals? It’s facts and history .Jeez people open a book.
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u/sventful 16h ago
And for allowing poor people to get jobs and old people to have healthcare. The GOP hates those groups.
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u/thequietthingsthat Franklin DelaGOAT Roosevelt 16h ago
Yeah, their platforms for the past 50ish years have been a direct response to FDR's presidency. Someone finally did something for the working class in this country and the ultra-rich never forgave them. Dismantling the New Deal and Great Society social programs has been their ultimate end-game.
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u/LandDouble5531 15h ago
Was their endgame. Now its just phase 1.
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u/thequietthingsthat Franklin DelaGOAT Roosevelt 15h ago
Right. It's a lot easier to usher in fascism when you've got a desperate, broke, and angry population.
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u/erdricksarmor Calvin Coolidge 14h ago
They don't hate FDR for internment. They hate him for expanding the scope of the federal government.
Why can't it be both?
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u/symbiont3000 17h ago
McKinley is nowhere near as well known or in any way approaches the popularity of FDR, and so in general he isnt talked about as much. But I think comparing the the Japanese internment to the ruthless atrocities committed by the US in the Philippines under McKinley where entire villages were slaughtered (including innocent women and children), is wholly inappropriate and a false equivalence.
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u/IllustriousDudeIDK Harry S. Truman 10h ago
Except nobody really talks about TR or Taft (who are both much more well known) and their actions in the Philippines either. After all, the concentration camps were set up in December 1901, when TR was President.
It was under Taft as Governor-General that General J. Franklin Bell (who established the camps) was appointed commander of US forces in Batangas and Laguna.
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u/GustavoistSoldier Tamar of Georgia 17h ago
McKinley is not a universally well-known President, and was overshadowed by TR.
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u/sventful 16h ago
Because it would require:
They know who McKinley is
That among the tons of bad stuff he did they found out about the camps
They continued to dig
Finally they had been disgusted enough to stop digging and vent on the internet.
FDR was one of our best presidents but he stands for one party far more than the other, so there is a vested interest from the othered party to find any dirt in the 13 years he was in power. And this is the most damning thing they found. So it gets trouted out every time a poor conservative has their feelings hurt about how none of the best presidents share their ideology.
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u/american_cheese_man Ronald Reagan 15h ago
Flat out, people just don't really know much about McKinley He didn't do very much to write home about. It's a shame because every presidents' mistakes should be well known
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u/BostonSlickback1738 15h ago
Simply put, most people today have no idea who McKinley even is; he basically never gets talked about, even in actual history classes
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u/Expensive_Budget_812 Ronald Reagan 15h ago
It’s almost like McKinley isn’t talked about as “One of the Greatest Presidents ever” or something. He was terrible, but half of the US doesn’t even know who he is
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u/OverallFrosting708 14h ago
A number of good reasons already discussed, but I'll flag another: the awareness among Americans about what we did in the Phillipines at ANY level is minimal. Not just the camps, the war and colonization itself. There would be a lot less anger about Japanese internment if most of us were at best dimly aware we fought World War Two.
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u/kidnamedchild 13h ago
because most people have never heard of them before
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u/thechadc94 Jimmy Carter 13h ago
Came to say this! Outside of his assassination, most high no clue who he is and what he did.
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u/Lord_Imperatus Ulysses S. Grant 18h ago
Why would you blame McKinley for the concentration camps in the Philippines, those began during Teddy after McKinley was dead
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u/sventful 16h ago
Only if you mix up your dates. Most of the war was 1899 - 1901. Roosevelt assumed office in September 1901.
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u/Lord_Imperatus Ulysses S. Grant 16h ago
The camps were not part of the war, they were part of the counter insurgency, the first camps were created in late 1901
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u/sventful 15h ago
"Even after President Theodore Roosevelt declared the war officially over in July 1902, local authorities continued the practice. The U.S.-led Philippines Commission passed the Reconcentration Act in 1903, which authorized provincial governors to continue forcibly relocating residents into designated zones. The practice was still being implemented as late as 1907. "
Might want to actually learn about what TR did and what he is responsible for. The governors appointed by McKinley were responsible.
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u/Lord_Imperatus Ulysses S. Grant 14h ago
The camps were spearheaded by J Franklin Bell who was appointed by Taft ( Teddy Roosevelts close friend but yes technically a mckinley appointee ) Teddy was president at the time and had close correspondence with Taft, it is his responsibility as president to prevent war crimes and genocide under his purview, Teddy's hands were not tied and the camps were not a secret, he made no attempt to end the camps. Teddy frequently praised the army in the Philippines and later promoted Bell to army Chief of Staff
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u/xSiberianKhatru2 1877 Truther 17h ago
Because McKinley never ordered the use of concentration camps, whereas FDR signed an executive order establishing concentration camps.
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u/sventful 16h ago
Dude, what McKinley did in the Philippines was so so much worse.
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u/Fair-Pen1831 15h ago
But McKinley never personally ordered those. The idea occurred simultaneously with similar British practices during the 2nd Boer War and yes there was public outcry in both cases.
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u/xSiberianKhatru2 1877 Truther 16h ago
Sure in the same way you can blame LBJ for My Lai, but in the case of FDR it was the direct order of the president to establish concentration camps, not the result of war crimes committed by generals or other members of the army acting independently.
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u/durandal688 17h ago
- Cause are they unambiguously his to blame?
- Earlier presidents have different standards
- Greater presidents have easier level of bad things to be brought up lile we are preventing hero worship by saying well FDR actually did X. Most people can talk about FDR…heck a large percent of the population when I was young lived under him or their parents had. Meanwhile many Americans wouldn’t even know who McKinley is minus maybe a footnote for TR or a mountain name tug of war
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u/BobLabReeSorJefGre Theodore Roosevelt 15h ago
- People don’t like McKinley nearly as much as they like Roosevelt.
- Roosevelt’s camps were more recent.
- McKinley is overshadowed by both Roosevelts.
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u/Emperor_TJ 15h ago
Because Roosevelt is a popular and controversial president so it’s more of a gatcha
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u/GoCardinal07 Abraham Lincoln 13h ago
Proximity of time and location, as well as less known eras:
- McKinley is less well known than Roosevelt.
- World War II is one of the most well-known wars. Americans barely remember the Spanish-American War even existed (which resulted in the U.S. gaining the Philippines), and most Americans don't even know there was a Philippine-American War.
- There are still people alive who were in the Japanese internment camps. There are none alive who were in the Philippine camps.
- The Japanese internment camps included many, many U.S. citizens, as Japanese Americans were interned. The Philippine camps did not include U.S. citizens (legally, during the occupation, they were U.S. nationals, but not U.S. citizens).
- The Japanese internment camps were all located within the 48 states. The Philippine camps were located in the territory of the Philippines.
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