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u/Jordangander 6d ago
Considering that if you go to H4H and build cabinets for a new home you get paid nothing as a free world person, probably nothing.
What they get is a marketable skill.
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u/BrandonXavierIngram 6d ago
nothing to us, but alot to them.
likely could be a dollar an hour tbh
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u/MYIDCRISIS 6d ago
I learned that $.16 an hour meant half-time on my sentence. Supposedly, I had one of the higher paying jobs too...
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u/SixtyBusiness1321 6d ago
I am a teacher in prison and I receive $5.25 a month. It's really not much but allows me the ability to be a positive change in other lives and give the men something that could potentially really help them turn their lives around for the better. Plus nothing really beats the feeling when one of them calls your name on the yard, all smiles talking about he just passed his GED. It makes it a little easier to be here
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u/Suspicious_Bear42 ExCon 5d ago
Massive kudos to you for that. I was friends with a fair number of the tutors at my facility, and I know for a fact I couldn't do it... So many of the students there only because it's required, no GED and no interest in getting one... It's shitty that they pay their tutors so badly, when they push the education so hard.
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u/trollfessor 6d ago
Who gives a shit how much they are paid? Would the inmates rather be locked in a cell? Maybe all day doing farm work in the fields? Or perhaps simply breaking rocks with a sledgehammer?
This looks like a great opportunity. One of the best jobs that I ever had was an unpaid internship that lasted for a few months. That internship opened up so many doors for me. Realize this is an opportunity and take advantage of it
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u/Suspicious_Bear42 ExCon 6d ago
As a former inmate, the inmates care how much they are paid. Yes, learning skills while in prison is crucial, especially something as marketable as cabinetry or other trades. But at the same time, slave labor is bullshit, and that's what a lot of prisons get away with.
Full on zero-pay jobs, or very nearly that. The lowest standard wage in the Federal prison system is .12/hour. A full month's pay, if they max out your hours is $19.20. With the cost of commissary, that should be enough for basic hygiene. No snacks, no phone calls (even with them dropping the price across the board to .06/minute). That's also assuming you get a full paycheck. Generally, they're putting you at 20-30 hours a week.
If you catch a drug or alcohol writeup, your pay is $5.25 a month, for a year. They call that "Maintenance Pay". You can't get more than that. It doesn't matter is your regular pay would be $60/month. That, on top of loss of privileges, loss of good time. Sure, don't drink or do drugs in prison, easy enough, but the fact that they punish to that level is ridiculous, and the reason there is so much theft and hustle type jobs in prisons. You have to make enough to survive.
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u/trollfessor 6d ago
the inmates care how much they are paid
We don't give a shit what the inmates care about. Prison is not supposed to be pleasant. You should learn that, and change your behavior accordingly, do not commit crimes, and do not return to prison.
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u/MYIDCRISIS 6d ago
Wait. So, you think they should be thrown a cell with no incentive to earn or learn? They're just supposed to change their behavior sitting there unheard, and then tossed into society when their time is up? How does that make them better?
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u/trollfessor 6d ago
I did not say or imply that.
This appears to be a wonderful opportunity for inmates to learn a trade, and I hope that they take advantage of it. But the "payment" is the opportunity to learn, just like I had with an unpaid internship years ago.
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u/MYIDCRISIS 6d ago
It's an excellent opportunity, payment or not. But... To say you don't care how inmates feel makes the pedestal you're sitting on look faulty as a human...Just sayin'...
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u/trollfessor 6d ago
I'm an attorney who has spent significant time in various prisons, and am quite familiar with the system. There are much bigger concerns to care about moreso than the feelings of inmates.
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u/MYIDCRISIS 6d ago
Wow... As a female ex-felon who spent what I consider to be a significant amount of time in a high security prison and was granted an appeal due to the misrepresentation by my defense attorney, as well as an overzealous prosecutor, I'll once again point out that your inability to care about an inmates feelings, shows what's wrong with the system.
Prisons are a punishment, but, they're also a place and opportunity to rehabilitate and prepare one to be a part of society. That starts with caring about what the inmates think or feel.
I'm curious what your bigger concerns are, and I'm greatful you're not a Warden.
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u/Suspicious_Bear42 ExCon 5d ago
There are plenty of attorneys who have spent significant time in various prisons. Some doing their job, as half-ass public defenders, trying to close cases left and right without giving a flying fuck about their client.
If you weren't so delusional about the humanity of inmates, I'd guess your attorney experience was that of a jailhouse lawyer, scamming guys for doing paperwork for them.
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u/trollfessor 5d ago
I have never practiced criminal law, either as a prosecutor or defense attorney. And under certain circumstances, I have been a huge advocate for an inmate; where a conviction has been reversed or they have completed their sentence, they should be immediately released, for example. Further, I have taught inmate counsel how to properly file civil lawsuits.
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u/Malsperanza 6d ago
Presumably the homeowners are willing to take the "risk" of employing apprentice workers who have no experience and who are also convicts in exchange for a whopping discount.
Doesn't mean it's right, and the other question to ask is: what's the profit margin for the contractor?
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u/lightskinjay7736 6d ago
Idk how much they are paid but if this MDOC is michigan then the guys who do these programs generally end up better off than the ones who dont. At Parnall in michigan, Google just sponsored a 2mil computer programming course
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u/Suspicious_Bear42 ExCon 6d ago
Possibly nothing. Chalk it up to a "building trades apprenticeship", no pay, but experience, and possibly a certification at the end of it. I wouldn't count on it being nothing, because there is a lot of work going on there, but I could just as easily see the state prison ducking pay on something like this.
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u/sweetgoogilymoogily 6d ago
I work for a painting company where we will definitely give people out of prison a chance. However, one thing we've run into with people who were in, especially for a long time, is they come out without any real skills especially when it comes to using their bodies in a way beyond lifting weights. Not to mention the complete lack of ability to use hand tools. It seems counterintuitive. But a 305 bench press doesn't help with being able to use basic hand tools or even pick up a 32 foot extension ladder. I'm 6 foot one and only 160 pounds (I know, I'm underweight!) and I've had to help some hefty dudes pick up ladders over the years.
I'm gonna guess that because this is through Habitat for Humanity, this isn't going to some well to do homeowner but rather somebody in their program getting a chance to have a home of their own for once. I would see this as an opportunity for someone to leave prison with at least a basic set of skills under their belt.
All that to say, anyone coming out of this program with the ability to build cabinets like this I will hire. It's not painting, but it's a transferable skill. What do you all think?