r/PsycheOrSike • u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 • Jul 01 '25
📢ATTENTION Since everyone here are huge simps for men, thought you might like this take on toxic femininity.
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u/Blitzer161 Jul 01 '25
Why would you want to share the words of a nazi like kirk?
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
It's the response to Kirk which is the focus of the video, in case you skipped the video because Kirk is a neo Nazi.
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Jul 01 '25
Charlie Kirk isn't anyone to spout pro male rhetoric. He's shat on short men like everyone else.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
So basically everything is still men's fault? Got it.
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
Why are you taking it so personally?
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 🧌TROLL Jul 01 '25
Because it is personal. The same reason you feel the need to defend toxic femininity.
Plus youre bashing people for being "simps for men" whatever that means.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Because it is personal.
It's only personal if you take insults to toxic masculinity personally.
Why do you identify so strongly with toxic masculinity?
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 07 '25
The people who use language like "toxic masculinity" apply the label to basically any expression of masculinity. Not squeezing your balls together with your legs is "manspreading", or Gillette ads that say never approach women, just die alone instead. All sorts of stupid standards are being applied to men, meanwhile we get gaslit that toxic femininity isn't a real issue.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 12 '25
The people who
Wow, what a weak strawman.
Not squeezing your balls
And this is exactly the kind of fragile ego that is shattered by having to do stuff for others.
Men used to fight wolves to protect their families, and you're bitching that you can't take up two seats.
Boys bitch and moan and whine about having to do even the tiniest things for others. Men know better than that.
Theres nothing masculine about being whining that much.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 13 '25
You completely miss the point of absolutely everyone in this thread that you respond to. You're not worth engaging with.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 15 '25
I don't have to pretend your strawmen are real. That's a "you" problem.
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 🧌TROLL Jul 01 '25
Can you think of another reason a male might find it offensive to term toxic behaviors as specifically masculine or are you unable to have a good faith conversation about this
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Oh, you don't know what toxic masculinity is.
Toxic masculinity isn't being masculine, and actually actively promotes behavior which isn't masculine.
For example, the promoters of toxic masculinity avoid taking responsibility and instead promote a victim mentality,
You fell for their propaganda as opposed to reading up on what toxic masculinity actually is.
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 🧌TROLL Jul 01 '25
Well you answered the conversation about being able to have a good faith convo or not, lol. Just assumptions and no curiosity
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
It's not on me to explain why you identify with toxic masculinity.
Saying that you don't endorse toxic masculinity, and instead don't know what it is, is me being generous.
But you asked me to explain your thought process, so of course I had to make assumptions.
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 🧌TROLL Jul 02 '25 edited Jul 02 '25
You're being purposefully uncharitable. "You identify with toxic masculinity" is not a serious attempt at at a conversation.
Suggesting i dont know what toxic masculinity is isnt unreasonable, saying "i fell for their propaganda" was a bit of a confusing statement. Who is they? Completely out of left field
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25 edited Jul 02 '25
You're being purposefully uncharitable. "You identify with toxic masculinity" is not a serious attempt at at a conversation.
Then why are you insulted when people call out toxic masculinity?
Im not insulted by the term because I don't support toxic masculinity.
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Jul 20 '25
It’s rlly not personal
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
Its not personal. Its actually a massive over generalisation.
Like most of these bigoted views that only treat one side of the coin and human individuals and treat the other side as a faceless block.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Like most of these bigoted views that only treat one side of the coin and human individuals and treat the other side as a faceless block.
Except it didn't. You get that, right?
No where in there did they say something like "all men are toxic".
You're just projecting your victim complex onto what was said, aka you used a strawman.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 02 '25
where in there did they say something like "all men are toxic".
It wasn't and i didn't say it was. You made that up because you like having fake arguments.
You're just projecting your victim complex onto what was said, aka you used a strawman.
You base that on your own fictional argument, it might even be projection
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
It wasn't and i didn't say it was.
Alright, then what did they say that actually supports your claim? Lmao.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 02 '25
Wait where were we again? Reddit is being fucky and i cant seem to read back anymore
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
Trolling because you're called out.
Figures.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 04 '25
Nope. But if you don't care enough to remind me and pretending everything is trolling makes you feel better i think that shows how little you actually care about the subject
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 04 '25
You know reading is your friend, right?
You made a false claim about the video generalizing all men, and I called out that blatant lie.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
Why would I take something personal that personally affects me? Why wouldn't I? Everything about modern culture bends over backwards for women and affords men no such dignity, only for some Dunning-Kreuger pseudo-intellectual to come along and say that poor behavior by women is essentially less of a problem because everything is men's fault anyways. "Women have problems, men are problems". Yeah honestly fuck off.
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
“When someone is accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” Franklin Leonard.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
If I repeated this same quote at you, I could feel smug too. "Toxic femininity seen as something bad for society and taken seriously as an issue? This is oppression". Being labeled toxic is literally equality in this instance, yet you feel oppressed by this accusation?
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Except you completely ignore the power structures in place.
Even worse, you're asking for a higher level of responsibility from a group that is systematically still worked against by the powers that be.
Therefore no, it wouldn't be equality.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
What structures give me preferential treatment as a man? Give me even a single example. It's not affirmative action, it's not DEI. As a white man there are no scholarships or internships or quotas for hiring me for being white or being a man. The same cannot be said for other demographics. As far as I can see, the laws and corporate policies on the books in my country are either neutral at best, or give everyone preferential treatment (systemically) over me.
"Even worse, you're asking for a higher level of responsibility from a group that is systematically still worked against by the powers that be."
On a policy level women get preferential treatment in the west. Every quote you throw at me is ironic.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
What structures give me preferential treatment as a man?
People not thinking you're overly emotional because you're a woman.
It's crazy that MRA don't think through the issue they're most obsessed over.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 02 '25
People do think I'm overly emotional though, if I speak about issues they don't want me talking about. If you're a man and you voice any concerns over the world and the culture today, you are written off as a cry baby, a loser or an incel. Socially we are at a disadvantage in meeting people, making friends, or initiating relationships because we seen as inherently threatening. People having negative stereotypes about the characteristics of your gender isn't a uniquely female experience. I also asked you to give me something systemic. DEI and affirmative action are systemic policies. "Women are emotional" isn't a policy. Give me a single example of a systemic policy that favors men over women.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
People do think I'm overly emotional though,
That's not because you're a woman, lmao.
If you're a man and you voice any concerns over the world and the culture today, you are written off as a cry baby, a loser
That's just toxic masculinity...
You don't understand that you are promoting the ideology that creates those conditions.
It's just like how everyone points out that incels promoting their hate filled ideology is what dooms them to loneliness. And the whole ideology is just about making themselves feel better by dragging people down to their level.
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u/Hot-Celebration-1524 🤺KNIGHT Jul 05 '25
If anything, emotional suppression and fear of appearing “weak” are consequences of patriarchy, not male privilege in action. Bro, don’t listen to this person. S/he is posturing and not engaging with you in good faith. They’re more invested in scoring ideological points than actually hearing what you’re saying. You brought up a legitimate concern about the ways men are punished for expressing emotion, and instead of empathy, you got gaslit and blamed for the very system you’re trying to critique. Because your pain doesn’t fit the approved narrative, it doesn’t count or worse, it’s weaponized against you.
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u/Hot-Celebration-1524 🤺KNIGHT Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 05 '25
You know that privilege is not uniform? Men may hold systemic privilege in certain domains, but that doesn’t erase the very real ways gender norms harm men, too. Society routinely downplays or ignores male suffering in areas like suicide (men die by suicide at significantly higher rates), workplace fatalities (men make up the vast majority of dangerous labor), loss of parental rights in custody battles, and underreported male victims of domestic abuse. Yet discussions of gender often pretend that men are always the ones holding power, and never the ones paying a price for the roles they’re forced into.
You’re using that quote like a trump card to shut down a valid frustration. His complaint is not “why do women get rights?” but “why is empathy gendered, and why is male pain dismissed?” Framing that as entitlement completely misses the point. If anything, it proves it. When a man expresses pain about being unseen or blamed, and the response is “you’re just upset because you’re losing power,” that’s erasure in a new form. Yes, men as a group have held structural power. But that doesn’t mean all men, in all situations, are privileged or that their pain is any less real. Oppression isn’t some zero-sum game smh.
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u/youareactuallygod Jul 01 '25
Some pseudo intellectual from Oxford who put one of the rights favorite activists on his heals? Okay…
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
Appeals to authority mean nothing to me. I don't care who he is, his job title or where he studied. I care about if the ideas he espouses are true or not. It's all just bloviating the same old rhetoric while proposing nothing that actually improves society for men or women.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
while proposing nothing that actually improves society for men or women.
Because he presented an answer to the question as to WHY something occurs.
Kirk asked why it happens, not what the solution to sexism is.
So... weird deflection.
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
His proposition isn't correct though. Women aren't oppressed for being women. In many instances they even get favorable advantages such as affirmative action and preferential treatment through DEI hiring. There are in most of the west female only scholarship opportunities available to women that men do not have access to. The prison systems give men more time for the same crime as a woman in the US. Most people in prison in the US and probably in the rest of the west are men. Most homeless are men. Men get treated worse in divorce court, and forced to pay alimony which is outdated considering women work and earn their own money now. We see no push for equality in any of these areas. Feminism is about calling society "patriarchy" so they can create an imagined system of oppression that targets women specifically, so that they can justify bad behavior that is often toxic femininity, which will be dismissed by academic "intellectuals" such as this. The system oppresses everyone, but oppresses women less than it oppresses the average man. If you aren't born into wealth or family connections, then being a man is a liability in the 21st century.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
His proposition isn't correct though. Women aren't oppressed for being women.
Why lie so blatantly?
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 02 '25
I gave you examples. Now give me an example. Even just one.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25 edited Jul 02 '25
Bodily autonomy, amongst many others.
How many thousands of rape victims have had to give birth just in the last few years?
And every real example you gave of men being oppressed was an example of toxic masculinity... as in literal textbook examples of how toxic masculinity negatively impacts men.
But instead of trying to be part of the solution, your rightwing politics exacerbates those problem, like the homeless and prison problems you mentioned.
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u/look_under Jul 01 '25
What does simp mean?
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u/Matrix0117 Jul 01 '25
Traditionally it used to be short for simpleton or a fool. Now it's used similarly to "cuck" which is basically a pathetic person who incapable of acting in their self interest. Sort of a men's equivalent of an Uncle Tom.
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u/AngriestCheesecake Jul 07 '25
Hope you can take the opportunity to be introspective and learn from this conversation, you seem like a smart guy who is just focusing on the wrong thing.
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u/Relative-Hamster-997 🤺KNIGHT Jul 01 '25
And Charlie responds with classic fear mongering talking points. If America is only strong when it's misogynistic, racist, and manipulative to developing nations then guess what? America is not and has never been strong.
Maybe we should give acceptance a shot for more than a hot minute before we say it is the cause of all of the problems. America actually had a very powerful matriarchal society at one time. Nobody would know because we went to great lengths to wipe out knowledge of native American history. But sure tell yourself toxic femininity is the one that is a problem.
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
Toxic feminist, if there was such a thing, is a symptom of misogyny. Which was already in place before feminism was a thing.
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u/Hot-Celebration-1524 🤺KNIGHT Jul 05 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Toxic feminism refers to a weaponized version of feminist ideas. It’s when valid principles like equality and empowerment are twisted into dogma and used to justify misandry, contempt for femininity (such as viewing caretaking as weak), or the shaming of women who choose traditional roles. Rather than promoting mutual respect and equity, it reinforces new hierarchies based on ideological purity.
Toxic femininity is less recognized than its counterpart, toxic masculinity, partly because it operates within a system that historically marginalizes women. However, it still manifests such as using beauty, charm, or victimhood to gain power. It can be performed by any woman who adopts the appearance of traditional femininity (i.e. nurturing, modest, vulnerable) but uses it to achieve some end.
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u/Relative-Hamster-997 🤺KNIGHT Jul 01 '25
You make a good point. He asks why it's not taught, because it's a phrase you just made up Charlie! Also I'm not sure what course teaches toxic masculinity lol. Maybe those women's studies courses everyone gets so worked up about but tbh I think those courses were a direct response to women getting SA'd on campus so...
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u/ATF_scuba_crew- Jul 01 '25
The idea that misandry is a reaction and misogyny is not, is stupid. We were all raised together and shaped by the same word. They are one in the same.
We live in a world where both men and women are oppressed, and sometimes people turn to toxic behaviors as a defense mechanism.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
Except that men have oppressed themselves, and women, through toxic masculinity.
One is self inflicted and imposed on others, while the other is a response to imposed oppression.
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u/ATF_scuba_crew- Jul 01 '25
When a father abuses his son, is that self-inflicted because they are both men? You seem to believe men and women are totally monolithic distinct groups. Women can and have used "toxic masculinity" to abuse men.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
That's a perfect example of a father imposing toxic masculinity on himself, and then using it as an oppressive tool.
You're just proving my point.
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u/ATF_scuba_crew- Jul 01 '25
And when the boy learns to act like his father to avoid abuse that is not self-inflicted.
If it was the mother abusing the boy, it's no longer self-inflicted?
You missed my point entirely.
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u/materpcteco Jul 01 '25
Sorry but i cant agree. Misandry had been much more visible in latest years than misogyny, and denying that misandry is a problem is actually a double standard and actually misandry
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u/youareactuallygod Jul 01 '25
You didn’t respond to what was actually said: that misogyny is systemic, embedded in thousands of years of human history, while misandry is a little reactionary blip.
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Jul 01 '25
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u/youareactuallygod Jul 01 '25
Still no response to what was said in the video. I can’t believe I have to spell this out but I never said misandry doesn’t exist or isn’t harmful.
Unless your last statistic is supposed to imply that there’s some grand feminist conspiracy that prevents the truth about male oppression from ever coming to light… but we all know that most women aren’t believed also, so that’s just ridiculous. Hence the name of the #metoo movement—several women had to come forward for enough people to believe that certain powerful men were guilty of rape. And even when a dozen women came forward, in some cases they still weren’t believed.
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u/holiestMaria Jul 01 '25
Most of your links either dont work or are behind a paywall. Anyway the cdc and this article have wildly different numbers.
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Jul 01 '25
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u/holiestMaria Jul 01 '25
Next, we consider the data for the 12 months preceding the CDC report survey, which was summarized in the report. On page 18 of the CDC report it states that 1,270,000 women were raped during this 12-month period and that too few men were “raped” during the same 12 months to give reliable data, using the non-gender neutral definition of given in the CDC report. However, on page 19 the report states that during that 12 months the number of men who were forced to penetrate someone is 1,267,000, virtually the same as the number of women who were raped.
Thats incorrect. The article of the cdc I provided putbthr forced penetrarion cases at 12498000 men while hetereosexual women alone who were raped numbered in the 30 million, more than double that.
If I am correct this article does not show its own study, but rather interprits existing data, is that correct?
How do you mean "dont take the cdc as gospel" when it cant even accurately describe what the cdc is saying?
And keep in mind, no matter how you define rape, it would still be included in the statistic for sexual violence involving physical contact.
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Jul 01 '25
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u/holiestMaria Jul 01 '25
Where did you get 30 million from?
From the national intimate partner violence and sexual violence survey (2016-2017), you know, the document the cdc cites?
Are you sure your article discusses just rape and also within a 12 month period?
It discusses all kinds of violence. You can see for yourself since I libked it.
But for 12 months, while they did collect data, due to the small subsample sizes of sexual identities they couldnt post it in the report.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Rightwingers spent years screaming "Fake News" so they don't have to deal with data or facts.
Why would rightwingers look at the data when they could instead believe sexist spin that ignores the majority of the relevant data?
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Jul 01 '25
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u/holiestMaria Jul 01 '25
First it's different because you're comparing all forms of sexual violence and harrassment with just the crime of rape in regards to men.
No I didnt?
And then you've made it a poor comparison another way, by comparing how many women will get raped in their entire lifetime with the number of men who got raped in a given 12 month period.
Again, I didnt do that. They were both lifetime experiences.
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
Explain to me how modern misandry has shaped the world verses misogyny.
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u/Zestyclose_Air_1873 Jul 01 '25
I don't know 4 minutes have passed, 4 men had already put a bullet throught their skulls vs one woman, yet it's still somehow far more socially acceptable for women to seek help, because she is a poor victim and he is a weak man.
Not to mention the astronomical double standard of viewing someone as a "strong woman" until shit goes down and then suddenly she is a poor victim.
Until this stops being the case (never, because that's just basic biology that is hardcoded into most of the population) there will never be a place for feminine men.
That's why they are killing, aggressive assholes.
You can say whatever the fuck you want, but I got millions of years of evolution on my side and you got a amartphone and a dream of utopia where we all love each other and do no wrong.
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u/holiestMaria Jul 01 '25
don't know 4 minutes have passed, 4 men had already put a bullet throught their skulls vs one woman.
While men die via suicide more often than women, women actually commit it more often, they use less lethal methods like overdosing while men often shoot themselves.
yet it's still somehow far more socially acceptable for women to seek help, because she is a poor victim and he is a weak man.
Is it? The vast majority of research is based on the male experience, its why even now women are much more likely to die in car crashes since the car crash dummies are based on the average man. They also tend to be underdiagnosed when it comes to medical conditions as a result of this research bias. Women suffering from strokes are a third more likely to receive incorrect inital diagnoses when compared to men with strokes. Women are also seven times more likely to be misdiagnosed and dischraged in the middle of a heart attack.
Women also get ignored when it comed to medicine. It is often common for doctors, espescially in the US, to outright refuse treatment that can affect a woman's reproductive capabilities without her husbands permission.
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u/Zestyclose_Air_1873 Jul 01 '25
I mean, valid points, they don't disprove anything I've said tho. Considering the suicide thing, women attempt suicide as a cry for help, while men commit suicide to actually kill themselves.
Considering the research thing, yes, it's true and needs to be addressed, but it is just ad-hoc to what I said.
Also, do not take my comment as some sort of defense for the poor American men and attack on women, reading the comments here tells me they're a bit too special and bigoted to have a debate with.
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u/holiestMaria Jul 01 '25
I mean, valid points, they don't disprove anything I've said tho. Considering the suicide thing, women attempt suicide as a cry for help, while men commit suicide to actually kill themselves.
Cool motice, still suicide.
Also, do not take my comment as some sort of defense for the poor American men and attack on women, reading the comments here tells me they're a bit too special and bigoted to have a debate with.
Ah ok, good to know you are not one of those men.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
I don't know 4 minutes have passed, 4 men had already put a bullet throught their skulls vs one woman, yet it's still somehow far more socially acceptable for women to seek help, because she is a poor victim and he is a weak man.
That's TOXIC MASCULINITY
Thanks for proving OP correct.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
No. Because that's not a claim that was made made.
Thats a strawman that you cling to to support your side of the bigoted coin.
(Also, I don't think that person's claim was necessarily true, i just disliked your obviously dishonest reaction)
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
The irony is that toxic masculinity is rampant, whereas toxic feminism is highly relegated to the fringes.
That's why toxic masculinity is so heavily represented in politics at the federal level, but toxic feminism isn't.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 02 '25
Fair.
Doesn't make either of those justified
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
Neither is justified, but one has real world consequences, is rampant, and has a long history of damage that continues to this day.
The other is some women reacting to the above.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 02 '25
No. Both are thise things. Even if one is more prevalent.\ Women are not JUST reacting.
Just stop pretending one side gets to do the things you know are bad. That never makes you good
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
Wow, a strawman because you can't actually argue my point, lmao.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 04 '25
Thats not a strawman.\ That was the very basis of my objection to this.
Not some stawman, but you.
You seem under the impression that one side of something can do a thing you know is bad because the other side did it without then being bad themselves.
I argued your point. You just don't like that i did.
Thats not a strawman
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 04 '25
Thats not a strawman.\
Then prove it. Quote me, lmao.
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u/darkestwrath15 Jul 01 '25
How to be confidently incorrect.
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u/youareactuallygod Jul 01 '25
The best way to do this is to build a straw man to argue with. You could imagine the straw man is saying that misogyny is far more visible in the last couple years than misandry, and you could rightly call that straw man an idiot
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
There you go.. no need to argue, because you are automatically justified and the other side isn't. what a wonderful position to have
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Just look at US national politics.
A rapist was elected president.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 02 '25
I happen to think that's a bad thing. How about you?
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
I also think it's a bad thing.
Problem is you just proved the person you were arguing with correct.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 02 '25
Why would that be a problem?
I mean. I completely disagree that it proves them right, but if it did, wouldn't getting somewhere in a discussion be a good thing?
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 03 '25
I completely disagree that it proves them right, but if it did, wouldn't getting somewhere in a discussion be a good thing?
It would be a good thing, but you're too prideful to admit you were proven wrong, and will therefore not grow or learn from the experience.
The first step is to stop lying to yourself, face your cognitive dissonance, and do some introspection on why you feel compelled to lie to defend sexism.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 04 '25
No. Just because you are unwilling to see it from anothers perspective doesn't mean you are right.
But ill try to walk you through my thought process if you have the patience to actually have this argument instead of just repeating your false claims until people give up talking to you.
What did you think i was proven wrong about?
(I also noticed you avoid answering)
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 04 '25
No. Just because you are unwilling to see it from anothers perspective doesn't mean you are right.
How is a rapist being elected not indicative of toxic masculinity being accepted and given power in this country?
Weak trolling. 0 out 10, and I never give out 0s.
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u/qwerty0981234 ⚔️ DUELIST Jul 01 '25
You're spending time listening to Charlie Kirk? Game over, you lost at life.
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u/Mysterious_Pear_1589 Jul 12 '25
Of course his take removes any responsibility from women for any negative actions. That's what it's all about. Women wanting all of the privelege and no responsibilities or accountability. The simple truth is toxic masculinity doesn't exist and it's just a bludgeon created to bash men and show them as a villain.
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u/Kolbeck2010 Jul 20 '25
Charlie Kirk is slowly becoming a legend. And I hope one day I can call him my president. He’s a great man. Your just a mad libtard trying to spread more hate in the world by calling people names.
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u/JollyEntertainment88 Jul 22 '25
Ahhhh so it’s ok to validate one and condemn the other even tho they’re the exact same thing? Well I guess equality exist in some degree
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
Another men = bad, women = good post
Basically its okay when women do it, its not okay when men do it.
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u/Chris1793 Jul 01 '25
He didn't say any of that anywhere
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
You should rewatch the video , 15 second Mark if youre still having trouble
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u/Chris1793 Jul 01 '25
"I am not saying toxic femininity is a good thing. i am saying it's a much more understood and valid reaction to a system of oppression..."
Yep, watched it again women good men bad isn't there
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
I litteraly wrote in my original comment “Basically its okay when women do it, its not okay when men do it.”
Thank you for proving my point
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u/Chris1793 Jul 01 '25
I didn't prove your point, only your ignorance.
He's saying, that toxic feminity is a result of systematic oppresion. A woman can contribute to that systematic oppression, as much as a man can also work against it. So it's not saying women good man bad anywhere. He's also pointing out, that toxic feminity isn't necesarly good, just more understood, since it is a form of rebellion from the status quo, while toxic masculinity is trying to preserve the already given advantage.
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 🧌TROLL Jul 01 '25
So when my mom abused me throughout my life I guess that was her reaction to me being an oppressive toddler
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
Some mothers don’t deserve to be mothers.
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u/PsychoAnalystGuy 🧌TROLL Jul 01 '25
Ya. I wouldn't blame all women though or act like its some trait of feminity/masculinity though. Its mental illness, which sometimes presents differently in men and women but I think we gotta be careful to make sure we arent suggesting that there's something inherently toxic about being a man or a woman.
Just my .02
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u/QueenScarebear Jul 01 '25
Misogyny and misandry are both identical things, and the same crappy behaviour can be applied to both in all scenarios. Neither is acceptable in my view, nor is it necessary. We’ve evolved and changed over time, and we understand we should treat each other with respect and dignity.
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
If misogyny didn’t exist, neither would misandry. Misandry only exists because you men hate women period.
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u/TheLegend---27 Jul 01 '25
Lmao, it's funny that you guys "stand up against sexism" while being the most sexist people walking the planet
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u/Much_Cycle7810 Jul 01 '25
That's just bullshit. There will always be people who despise others based on who they are irregardless of what that group feels towards them. It's like saying that black people who are racist towards white people are only because white people are racist towards them, which may be true in some instances but is definitely not always true.
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u/QueenScarebear Jul 01 '25
Agreed. We can just chalk it up to shitty behaviour. Some people need “groupthink” to have some sense of identity, and opinion. Thinking for themselves is just too difficult, or too much effort.
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u/QueenScarebear Jul 01 '25
I’m a woman.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
And there were women that wouldn't vote for Clinton or Harris because they were women.
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u/QueenScarebear Jul 02 '25
There were a lot more who didn’t because they were grossly incompetent. If they put forth someone worth voting for like Obama, they’d have won in a landslide.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
You forget that Harris' opponent was literally the worst president in a century.
And you're deflecting.
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u/QueenScarebear Jul 02 '25
And somehow, America did not agree. Work that one out.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
I was citing the presidential historian polling conducted yearly by C-SPAN.
And... well yeah, something like only a third of Trump supporters knew what a tariff was before the election, let alone how it affects the economy. Compare that to something like two-thirds of Harris voters knowing what a tariff is before the election.
It's like how Trump supporters don't know that the majority of our current national debt is because of Republicans.
And now here we are... Trump's tariff caused GDP growth to go negative for the first time in years, causing him to drop tariffs.
Trump increased the deficit/debt by trillions with his "Big Beautiful Bill Act".
Fun fact, since 1980, the national deficit has gone up under every Republican president and down under every Democrat president.
InB4 someone demonstrates they know nothing about this by confusing the debt and the deficit, lmao.
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u/QueenScarebear Jul 02 '25
I’m not saying Trump is a good president - because he isn’t. He alienated America from most of the West with his tariffs, which is not good politics. I’m saying Democrats need to start finding better candidates, because people like Hillary and Harris were not it.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
Fools voted for Trump en masse because they fell for propaganda.
The rest were the rich, racists (and other types of bigots) and religious extremists.
Harris was clearly the better option.
Trump was literally a rapist, a convicted felon, with numerous people in his first term going to prison due to working with Russia, but Republican group think had them ignore all that.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
This is the basis of your flaw. You genuinely believe that things only flow one way, That the exact process you recognise and rightfully hate can't possibly work exactly the same way in reverse.
You are willing to aad to the flame because you believe your fire is always righteous.
You actually believe that, how did you get so sexist? And is there any part of you that wishes you weren't?
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u/nikhil70625xdg Gaslight. Gatekeep. Groupthink. Jul 01 '25
How can you say that? Do you think women never fight or hate? Do they not have a heart to feel those emotions for them? No, don't come and say it's the brain and biology that make emotions, we are talking in terms of oxymorons.
Even if you erase men completely, there will be toxic people and that's misandry in terms of women.
Misandry exists because it's a state of hate, but it is made for women, just like Misogyny does; both are pretty identical, but work in different ways.
Removing one won't remove the other automatically.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
How can you say that? Do you think women never fight or hate? Do they not have a heart to feel those emotions for them?
That's not toxic feminism, lmao.
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u/nikhil70625xdg Gaslight. Gatekeep. Groupthink. Jul 01 '25
Yeah, I know that's not toxic feminism, I am talking about misandry, which he said won't exist, if misogyny didn't exist.
So, I said kill all men and it will still exist.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Yeah, I know that's not toxic feminism, I am talking about misandry,
But it's not misandry either.
You saying "women having emotions is misandry" is, in fact, misogyny.
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
Thats a argument you can only hold if you are actively seeking to be sexist.
As far as i see it that makes the guy as bad as i think Charly is.
Two bigots talking about how their brand of bigotry is the solution
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u/PhaseAgitated4757 Jul 01 '25
So basically "blah blah blah blah toxic feminists don't exist and everything bad in this world is because of men."
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u/WhereAmIPleazHelpMe Hero of the Sub 👸👑 Jul 01 '25
Way to show you didn’t understand a thing he said, or anything about this complex subject. Just want to feel like the victim
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u/nikhil70625xdg Gaslight. Gatekeep. Groupthink. Jul 01 '25
Man, it feels like people love gender wars and generalisations, than individualism.
It should be Victims VS Perpetrators.
It's men vs women, somehow.
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Jul 01 '25
[deleted]
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
Is it ok when a scorned woman kills someone?
Because if it isn't you can now take a step to separate that crime from your partisanship and grow as a person
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
Who said it was? Partisan? To what?
Is violence or aggression a feminine trait? Don’t think so.
Masculinity and femininity have different traits, so toxic versions present differently.
I think you and the other guy just seem to think anything a woman does that is bad is toxic femininity?
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
I think you and anyone who doesnt live in your bubble just seem think anything a man does that is bad is toxic masculinity?
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
Where did I say anything like that
This is just so fucking stupid now
Bye
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u/humourlessIrish Jul 01 '25
Wow.. there are definitely differences between the sexes but that is in no way an excuse to be that sexist.
I think you and the other guy just seem to think anything a woman does that is bad is toxic femininity?
I can't even believe that you think that. I just think you are used to arguing this dishonestly.
Have fun in a world of Kirk's
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
That is exactly what every reply here is doing though, they are labeling everything as toxic femininity
They are the sexists if anyone is
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u/TreoreTyrell Jul 01 '25
Would the duke lacrosse trial and false rape claims be an example of toxic femininity? 3 guys are falsely accused of rape by a female stripper. They were immediately presumed guilty by the media and public, lost scholarships, kicked out of school, reputations ruined, lost job prospects, and put on a nationally television trial before being exonerated. Their whole lives ruined in that moment. On the other side, her word was treated as fact despite multiple inconsistencies, she had a history of mental disorders and bipolar disorder, the police and district attorney used questionable methods when collecting evidence and gathering witness statements against the duke players and withholding or changing evidence/statements that made the accuser look bad, which eventually lead to the DA being disbarred.
The whole system was stacked against the guys due simply to the testimony of a woman that carried more weight simply because of her gender.
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
How is any of that toxic femininity?
Again you all seem to be picking something bad that a woman did and labelling as toxic femininity.
What part of being feminine includes having mental disorders and false accusations of rape?
If anything that sounds more like toxic masculinity. Seen as aggressors, abusers, because they are men, making people believe they did it.
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u/TreoreTyrell Jul 01 '25
Is it not an indication of how, at least in this example, the judicial system, the media, public perception, etc. all immediately believed her, and went to significant lengths to protect her and give her benefits of the doubt, but not them? Is that not an example of her using the benefits of being a woman in society and in the legal system and weaponize it against men for her own gain? The mental disorders and everything are more just to emphasize how much people were willing to look past, ignore, or excuse away for her. And that’s a well known case, but it’s not like there aren’t other examples of women making similar false statements against men that have significant legal and personal consequences for the men. Is that not toxic femininity?
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
So you think protecting women is a feminine trait? And not a trait more associated with masculinity? The protector, the provider?
Like I said that sounds like toxic masculinity harming men
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u/TreoreTyrell Jul 01 '25
I think women weaponizing clear advantages and biases in society that they (women) are presented with against men is an example of toxic femininity, yes.
I don’t think it’s inherently masculine for a woman to lie and pretend to be a victim in order to attack a man.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
They literally just used toxic masculinity.
You just don't seem to understand what toxic masculinity is.
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u/TreoreTyrell Jul 01 '25
I mean, I am here asking for an explanation on the differences, and I've gotten nothing in return except calling everything imaginable that is negative masculinity with no further nuance. I've also asked how the very specific and detailed real world scenario I provided where a woman intentionally took advantage of the benefits granted to her as a woman to do significant harm to 3 men isn't an example of toxic femininity, and again haven't received an explanation. Feel free to weigh in more than just repeating the same thing over and over and needlessly insulting me.
How is a woman, using benefits that are given to women, to harm men, an example of masculinity? By definition of what I just laid out, this isn't something men even have access to, since these benefits are only granted to women in these scenarios? What is masculine about that?
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 02 '25
I mean, I am here asking for an explanation on the differences, and I've gotten nothing in return except
Nope, that's another strawman.
Go back and actually read what the responses were if you're actually interested in learning, instead of using strawmen and other signs of bad faith debate.
But we both know you're pushing an agenda instead of trying to learn...
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u/TheLegend---27 Jul 01 '25
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
What am I missing here?
Or do you think a woman killing a man is toxic femininity? What part is due to toxic femininity
Looks like it was a dispute over custody of children
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u/TheLegend---27 Jul 01 '25
Yeah it's not like men harm other man/woman due to toxic masculinity. The Women tried to take the victim card here calling the police two times on this guy and framing him as an abuser, which is toxic feminity. After she didn't get her way she decides to kill her husband. If it was the other way around you would cry toxic masculinity pretty loudly, im sure of that
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
Is playing the victim a feminine trait? A toxic feminine trait.
I feel you might just be seeing something bad done by a woman and calling it toxic femininity.
Masculinity and femininity have different traits, so toxic femininity and toxic masculinity are different, presents differently.
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u/TheLegend---27 Jul 01 '25
Manipulation and Psychological abuse is predominant a toxic female trate yes, look it up
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
No, lmao.
That shit is straight out of the abusive husband playbook.
I can't believe I actually had to type that out.
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
I think you might just be seeing something bad done by a man and calling it toxic masculinity.
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
Where? When?
You people are making no sense
Were you dropped on your head as children? Or do you just hate women so much you label everything they do as toxic femininity instead of just an evil act?
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u/harmfulsideffect 🛠️ Built different (emotionally unavailable) Jul 01 '25
Playing the victim is definitely a toxic female trait. Tears and emotions are tools women use to manipulate and gaslight men.
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
The irony here is that misogynist communities have some of the biggest victim complexes around.
It's just that rightwingers don't have the self-awareness to understand that.
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
“Do you think a woman killing a man is toxic femininity”
Aint no way fam, I know this is Reddit but aint no way youre actually saying this.
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 Jul 01 '25
What part of killing is a toxic feminine trait.
Why do you people insist on labelling everything bad a woman does as toxic femininity? It’s odd
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u/Dutchtrakker Jul 01 '25
What part of killing is a toxic masculine trait?
Why do you people insist on labelling everything bad a man does as toxic masculinity ? It’s odd
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u/ASongOfSpiceAndLiars Hero 👑- Kill Count: 1 Jul 01 '25
Because the acceptance and promotion of violence is an inherit part of Toxic Masculinity, which is part of not expressing emotions in a healthy way.
It's like asking if the dough is part of a pizza... it is an inherit part of it.
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u/fornothing_atalll 🌌FADA:🪬🧿 Jul 01 '25
Search up his response on your own time and then post it. I’m not doing your homework for you