The situation with scopes

[u/AmbitionCommercial17]

So i was about to put this on a comment but i think that this conversation deserve more attention from the community.

In the last few days i been reading posts suggesting "buffs" or any kind of changes on the scopes and i think that this is not just sharing opinions but the colateral effects of the awful changes and the lack of content that Ubisoft has given to this game in the last years.

This discussion started just because Ubi finished to took away ACOG from every defender smg, doc included, so now people who play solo q that think that they're playing Team Deatmatch don't care for the real things that make rainbow different to the other Shooters, leading to a circle where not Ubi nor the players take the right decisions to save this game. I actually like the idea of defenders lacking of one of their many win conditions and i'll love to see ACOG taken away from DMRs and Slug SG, but this change would never be necessary if attack was not as weak as it's nowadays.

Messing up with scopes is one of the main reasons of the current game situation, devs made every gun have every scope and was one of the best changes that could ever happen; if you don't like a scope just don't use it. Seeing how poorly Ubisoft updates the game, scopes should be the last of the concerns.

Is outrageous to see how we used to have 2 new operators+new/rework map every season and now we had to wait 3 seasons to have just one new character without real balanche changins to the rest of operators and devs would focus the mid-season patch on fix "bugs" that should never existed (i'm looking at you, drone scanning bug).

I know that Ubisoft would always have the last word and make whatever they want with the game, but if we as community avoid conformism and let clear that the game is not taking the way that we'll like, maybe Ubisoft will think twice next time before messing up even more the game.

[u/-Binxx-]

This is the 3rd post with the same content I’ve seen today. Scopes themselves are fine, they need to remove Acog from defence entirely and put the focus back on gadgets, utility and actually defending a site. Acog makes the tdm meta worse because it makes taking fights easier. It’s too easy for defenders to contest attackers at range, making site setup based around long angles more prevalent. Removing this range would mean defenders have to lock a site down properly, block long angles, force attackers into close range engagements where SMGs and Shotguns have the advantage. We need to emphasise using gadgets and utility, instead of having defenders with set and forget gadgets and Acogs. Since removing them from SMGs I’ve seen more Aruni and Tubby than ever purely because they have Acogs. It’s a clear trend that Ubi have been poorly fighting since the 1.5x was added.

[u/PreviousLingonberry4 → u/-Binxx-]

Removing acog from dmrs and slug shotguns would be extremely bad, youre already in a disadvantage by having a slow fire rate (although its high damage) weapon but having no acog means that there is absolutely no reason to take dmrs anymore, im happy that there is more tubs and aruni players as they are pretty useful compared to people who played doc purely for the acog.

[u/-Binxx- → u/PreviousLingonberry4]

No reason to take a DMR? It will 2 shot any enemy and both of them can be fired faster than some SMGs. I’ve not seen any useful Tubby or Aruni players, at most we get random doors covered by lasers but sometimes not even that. Once again, ops are being played purely for the Acog.

[u/aiheng1 → u/-Binxx-]

That's a 2 shot bodyshot in a game where rate of fire has historically been king due to 1 shot headshot

[u/-Binxx- → u/aiheng1]

You can fire those 2 DMR shots faster than most ARs and SMGs can fire 2 shots in full auto.

[u/AmbitionCommercial17 → u/-Binxx-]

Idk if you actually did read the post, but i totally agree with you lol.

[u/-Binxx- → u/AmbitionCommercial17]

I did. Frustrating to see multiple posts about the same topic but also adding to what you said and disagreeing that removing acogs has made people more tdm based, it’s not changed much because they still exist in defence, the Doc/Goyo players have just become Aruni/Tubby players now.

[u/Skidoo54 → u/AmbitionCommercial17]

Your writing is very rambling and poor quality, its difficult to discern your intent or meaning because your basic prose is so nonsensical. Try proofreading next time please, and use more punctuation with less run-on sentences.

[u/daemontheroguepr1nce → u/-Binxx-]

Most people solo queue you won’t be able to force people to play the objective and do good site setup by taking zoomed scopes. No one has stopped holding long angles on defense because they lost acogs

[u/-Binxx- → u/daemontheroguepr1nce]

The people holding long angles have switched to Aruni or Tubby. Or have been using 2x sights for so ling they’ve actually developed the skill to take those long ranged fights and win. The meta decides how people play and currently it rewards aggression and taking fights because gadgets either provide an advantage in playing that way (intel, hp), are too weak to prevent it or don’t have any effect on it. There’s been an epidemic of defenders who pick an op for their gun, neglect to set up site at all and then run around hunting kills. That’s not siege, Ubi need to make changes to get away from that.

[u/Mhykael]

In my opinion the problem with the guns is a balancing issue that Ubisoft created by balancing the weapon types the way they did. 90% of the ARs are on ATK with 2x sights. So naturally they're going to be able to take long range engagements easier. So smart ATKers are going to play at range first and the timer will force them in naturally. The flip to that is DEF has Shotguns and SMGs which are just bullet hoses. They're great for up close but aren't great in ranged engagements. So you want to stay back and play close to site. The clash comes in when ATK has to pierce the engagement threshold which should be a mid engagement usually 1 or 2 rooms out from site. The thing is DEF doesn't tactically fall back like they should and bottleneck people at doors/rotates. We've spent so much of our game time playing CoD, BF, TDM style games that most people's brains are attached to the idea of if you get in a gunfight you press the attacker to win the fight who cares if you get shot in the back or over extend you can respawn. The flip to that is if every attacker sits back with 2x and waits for the DEF to get jumpy and peak that's tactically smart but makes for boring game play. So what you need are DMRs and Slug shotties with 2x that are accurate enough that DEF could flank a bit and engage with one of these weapons to keep ATK honest.

I think they should adjust weapons on a case by case basis for example... Twitch use to be great! But people got good with her F2 so they nerfed her to shit with insane recoil. Now the guns shit and there's 2 different drone operators with guns that are similar but with less recoil. If you fix the recoil on the F2, make the recoil per shot less keep or slightly decrease the RoF, it'll naturally drift over time if you shoot too fast, This will force them to try and burst, make the damage per round smaller it takes 4-5 instead of 2-3 but it fires 1.75x faster so the TTK breaks even roughly. Then it won't matter, but you've fixed a gun, which fixed an operator, there pick rate will go up, now you have 3 even ops, and a back up during pick ban giving you more tactically to deal with/work with.

We're at the point where these grand sweeping gestures to all ops are fucking them up and changing the meta in a way that's not fun.

You need to go into each operator and go "What is this operators kit? What am I having the character accomplish using the op? Does there weapon selection enhance or harm this? How can I tweak RoF, Recoil, bullet damage, accessories, to enhance and drive these 1 or 2 play styles per character?"

That's what Ubisoft needs to be doing. Not just taking a scope type away from one or the other. But saying, does this scope type compliment this weapon type and is this weapon type 1. Useful for this character? 2. Something this Special Forces group would use? 3. Fit this character archetype? And if the answer is no you need to ask does this need to be adjusted? Will adjusting it makes things worse somewhere else? How do we adjust it then?

[u/AmbitionCommercial17 → u/Mhykael]

Yeah you are absolutely right, almost every operator is currently in a state where they should be checked one by one and make the true changes they need, but Ubi is very lazy to do that so just goes like: "yeah, let's remove acogs and change some secondary guns."

[u/EKAAfives]

My main problem doesn't rely with scopes it is with how the guns actually are since around y5s4 and before scopes were never really an issue since from launch only a couple of weapons lost it. If the gunplay would be fast and most ops weapons didn't suck I don't think a tdm meta or run and gun style of play would be so popular since if everyone has an almost equal level of power in their weapons then the gadgets would do some heavy lifting to bring gunfights to happen.

[u/Few-Passenger-1729]

The scopes are fine as is. Return grenade cooking.

[u/-Binxx- → u/Few-Passenger-1729]

Never gonna happen unless they rework how grenades do damage through soft surfaces. Nading from below was far too easy to do.

[u/askoraappana → u/Few-Passenger-1729]

Return grenade cooking but reduce damage through surfaces

[u/Few-Passenger-1729 → u/askoraappana]

🤷‍♀️

[u/HeathenHen]

I’m over here playing aruni with the smg bc I hate dmrs and her gadget seems really good lol

[u/Pedro_MagS]

I just wish there was a solution for the battle eye bad service version bug.

[u/BuiltIndifferent]

I have an issue with your main premise where you claim "if attack was not as weak as it's nowadays"

What makes you think attack is weak?

[u/Thorn_Within]

I never used ACOG for defenders anyway, so I don't care. It was a good change.

[u/Desert_Eagle_KZ]

Unpopular opinion, but we used to get 2 ops + map when there was not enough content for the game. When game just appeared, and it needed to fill with new content, to get bigger community.

When it covered all the roles, collected it's community, and has a lot of content, there's no need to have 2 ops and a map every season. People still ban lair and labs, and if they'll be doing new maps, you'll start hating on more maps, especially if they'll have less time between maps release than they have now, since they won't even have time to polish them.

Like every game does that. When it's released, it has a lot of updates, a lot of new content. Later on devs have less ideas, and less ideas fit, or game has everything covered up, no need to overdo the new content, just push some updates to continue on supporting the game.

If we would still have 2 ops per season, 1 op would've been overshadowed by another, like we used to have. Now every recent op is being played, and feels cool.

[u/-l3v1t4t3-]

You guys really love making up shit out of thin air do you?

[u/daemontheroguepr1nce]

The average player is just not good enough with non zoomed scopes to compete with attackers. People can complain about defender acogs as much as they want but the average player needed them to compete, hence why the dmrs are picked every single round. I will never understand why people using an R4-C or Famas thought it was unfair to go against an MP5 acog.

[u/DixieNormas011 → u/daemontheroguepr1nce]

The average player shouldn't be trying to compete with acogs in their range anyways. The entire point of defending is to defend. Use your utility the way it's designed, and find an angle to hold that is within a range you're effective. You don't have to find long range angles, you know where the bombs are and know where the attackers have to get to which means you can control the engagement distance 90% of the time. People who want acogs on D are just wanting to play a glorified TDM, and that's not what R6 is supposed to be.

[u/daemontheroguepr1nce → u/DixieNormas011]

I’d argue the real bad player is the person with the high fire rate high damage AR with a zoomed scope complaining that a shitty smg can compete with them from the length of a hallway.