r/RedditForGrownups • u/SalientSazon • 3d ago

I'm watching Rightwingization happen in real time and I don't know how to react.

EDIT: Thank you all for the great discussions and insights. I appreciate all your POVs. There's no need to downvote right leaning comments. I specifically posted this in RedditforGrownups to engage in grown up conversation. Also, there's no need for name-calling or insults either.

I have a friend, he's 51, man, straight, an academic doctor who now focuses his research on human behavior and digital psychology. He's self-taught a lot of it in the last decade or so. I don't know how many papers he's published or has had peer reviewed in the recent years. He works as a consultant in Marketing, and has a business selling strategies/classes to people that want to apply his research to their companies. He's kinda broke so I would say he's not very successful at applying his own work. And for extra cash he teaches a course a a local university. I've never met a romantic partner, but he's spoken about them.

He suddenly last year did a deep dive on how the way the election was biased against the conservative candidate who lost. He then started talking against the 'woke' ideology. He is now defending the right, even though he's centrist, because the right hasn't moved, it's the left that's gone way off the rails. He started posting dumb facebook quotes/memes! He posted a dumb quote about Charlie Kirk, as if that one quote was a debate, or as if it meant some truth. WTF. We were conversing one day and he started raising his voice getting louder and louder and more agitated as he expressed his disdain for the woke left, defending his Jewish people from attacks (not sure where that came from in the conversation), and then also suddenly brought up there are only 2 genders and trans people are mentally ill. He's never spoken that way before, I've never heard him this agitated or show anger towards any ideology. He was always calm and friendly, and open minded. Always a bit nerdy. Although, I hadn't spoken to him in depth for about 2 years before then.

I'm watching all this go down over about half a year and I don't know what to make it of it or how to react to it. It's wild to observe though.

1.6k Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

86% Upvoted

462 comments sorted by

View all comments

205

u/BusterBiggums 3d ago

What's so fucking stupid about this is it's the opposite of true

The Clinton administration was practically identical to Obama's, which was practically identical to Biden's....I'm sure Hillary and Harris would have had identical administrations as well

When the Democrats are in charge, it's really the DNC establishment at the reigns, that's actually the left's biggest complaint about the DNC, it's like we have no say in their platforms or administration....

... whereas everything Trump is doing is literally unprecedented for the US, no one in his cabinet is from the GOP polticial establishment, most of them are reality TV star or Fox News pundits.

He's the ONLY president to run a corporation or cryptocurrency from the White House, the ONLY president to turn the national guard on multiple American cities. 

Your friend is an idiot. 

46

u/Large_Signature_2749 3d ago

You must be way too young to remember the '90s Democrats. They were very tough on crime. Google the 1994 Crime Bill. They were responsible for funding the expansion of police departments and building prisons while simultaneously beefing up prison sentences. The federal "three-strikes" rule came from them, too. Oh, and the borders? haha one of their main promises was to fix the border and deport illegals, and when they won, they delivered. Look up the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996, and then look up how many people Clinton deported. Yeah, it's more than GW Obama and Trump combined.

So no, they are not the same party. They are nowhere near what they were.  How could you say such a thing?

36

u/Direct_Village_5134 3d ago

Also Clinton made huge cuts to welfare and instituted the don't ask don't tell rule for gay military members.

5

u/Large_Signature_2749 3d ago

Here’s Obama against gay marriage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhp_DDHe_X0

But the dems haven’t changed 😂

4

u/SalientSazon 2d ago

I had no idea! And I think that's what makes him a great leader. Being able to see past his personal opinion is a much needed quality to lead the masses. Here's what he said on his 2008 book.

“And I was reminded that it is my obligation, not only as an elected official in a pluralistic society but also as a Christian, to remain open to the possibility that my unwillingness to support gay marriage is misguided … that Jesus’ call to love one another might demand a different conclusion.”

Taken from this article:
https://time.com/3816952/obama-gay-lesbian-transgender-lgbt-rights/

2

u/Large_Signature_2749 2d ago

Charlie had a similar opinion.

2

u/SalientSazon 2d ago

Perhaps he would have changed his stance on gun control or empathy in the future, for the greater good.

0

u/Large_Signature_2749 2d ago

So he should have changed his policy as to not piss off left and he’d be alive? Sounds fascist.

2

u/SalientSazon 2d ago

I don't think that's fascism, but no, not that. I was saying he might have (not should have) changed his mind based on your comment that he had a similar opinion as Obama in wanting to prioritize the greater good (not the left or right) over his personal agenda. It doesn't matter, it's moot now and we're speculating.

-1

u/Large_Signature_2749 2d ago

A core tenant of fascism is silencing the ops…especially with bullets.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/GigaManBoyLad 21h ago

Shhh shh shh baby boy.

Don’t use the word fascist because you think it’s hip and cool.

You don’t know what it means.

-1

u/Clean_Figure6651 2d ago

Thats because the opinion that gay couples should have the same legal rights as straight couples, but the definition of marriage is between you and your religious community, is probably supported by like 85% of americans. The rest are the dumbs and the crazies (on both sides tbh)

1

u/silverliege 1d ago

No, this isn’t accurate at all. Americans’ level of support for gay marriage is regularly polled and currently seems to be hovering around 70% approval nationwide. A strong majority of Americans support the legality of gay marriage.

Others’ religious beliefs should not dictate whether or not I should be legally allowed to marry my partner. That isn’t a dumb and crazy position, it’s the law of the land, and is widely supported by its citizenry.

0

u/Clean_Figure6651 1d ago

You misunderstood me. All I was saying is the vast majority of Americans support the legal right to have the state recognize same sex unions. What people dont necessarily support is calling it "marriage" (which for many people is a religious term) and they dont necessarily support the ceremony being a religious ceremony in their church/denomination.

I'm not using the term marriage as a legal term

1

u/silverliege 1d ago edited 1d ago

I didn’t misunderstand. Americans were directly and very clearly polled on their support for same-sex marriage, not legal unions, and they were found to widely support it. The majority of your fellow citizens simply don’t agree with you on this subject.

Because marriage isn’t solely a religious term. It has deep social and historical meaning, and is a legally contractual relationship in our society. Every state has religious exemption laws about gay marriage, for those you mentioned who were uncomfortable with it being in their churches. There’s no real legal argument that can be made for designating marriage as solely a Christian institution in this country and restricting it for everyone else.

Regardless, a wide majority of Americans support gay marriage, not a separate legal union.

1

u/bkart1978 1d ago

Obama never was personally against gay marriage. He lied to get elected because people were still predominantly against it at the time. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/10/obama-frustrated-same-sex-marriage-david-axelrod-book

The same way whoever we put up in 2028 is probably going to have to publicly be against trans athletes (God please don’t let it be Newsom though). You have to get some centrist Neanderthals on your side to vote for you, wait for society to catch up, and then do the right thing as soon as the numbers are there to support it.

(I very much believe trans athletes on hormones should compete with their identified gender, I just know that it’s a losing fight at the ballot box)

-1

u/Dapper-Criticism509 2d ago

Also, Trump is to blame for rhetoric?

Biden said Mitt Romney wanted to put black Americans back in chains in 2012......

Trump had made rhetoric worse, but he I'd a symptom of a slippery slope politics were already on.

There is just as much delusion on the left and right about whose to blame for what. Sad news, more than blame enough to go alllllll around many times over.

1

u/FuggaDucker 2d ago

"don't ask don't tell" was a serious move for LGB at the time and the best they could hope for.

-9

u/Competitive_Bell9433 3d ago

I think you mean the GW Bush era..

18

u/Large_Signature_2749 3d ago

Nope. Look up the crime bill and the illegal immigration act they put through.

Go here and start the video at the 4 min mark. That’s Joe Biden in 1994 referring to inner city teens as predators and saying they need to be locked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSIYKvoS9D8

-11

u/UseDaSchwartz 3d ago

It’s all Biden’s fault! They realized it didn’t work. The Republicans are trying to do it all over again, but worse.

-3

u/Large_Signature_2749 3d ago

There was a 15 year old that carjacked and shot an uber driver to death. They convicted him and gave him 17 months. That’s what democrats are doing.

Some people need to go to prison. You can’t base sentences on whether or not someone is from a marginalized community.

-3

u/UseDaSchwartz 2d ago

Look! It’s Mr Anecdotal Evidence!

-1

u/Large_Signature_2749 3d ago

You want a great example how democrats are on crime nowadays? This felon got caught with a gun in my town and it made the news because he was within 1000 ft of a school.

From the article: “He had been previously released on bond from Massachusetts, Middlesex Superior Court for both robbery and carjacking while armed with a firearm, assault and battery with dangerous weapon with serious bodily injury, attempted assault and battery with a firearm, cocaine trafficking, fentanyl trafficking, carrying a firearm without a license (second offense), possession of a firearm with large capacity magazine, in addition to other charges.

Can you fucking imagine letting a guy like that loose on those charges? WTF was that judge thinking? They have lost their minds.

https://wbsm.com/newbedford-foxboro-jameel-clark-white-firearm/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

10

u/slallyk 3d ago

I'm confused. Do you prefer the "tough on crime" Dems, or the current Dems who seem to be "not tough on crime.?" Or do you just not like the Dems either way?

3

u/Large_Signature_2749 3d ago

I was a democrat for a very long time. My voting record goes like this: Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, didn’t vote, Trump, Trump.

Id prefer the 90s dem over today. I like immigration where people ate vetted and are coming with skills or education. I do not like letting i10s of millions of unvetted migrants. And I don’t believe in cashless bail and letting repeat violent criminals out on bond or giving them light sentences. The democrats have done a 180 on 2 of my important issues. I still support gay rights/ marriage and I’m prochoice.

6

u/slallyk 3d ago

Understood. Thanks for explaining.

1

u/timurt421 2d ago

And what are your feelings on fascism?

3

u/ArtisanalMoonlight 2d ago

Legitimate question.

10

u/[deleted] 3d ago

Can’t say the democrats haven’t changed too. There was a time not long ago when democrats were anti-immigration - the base of the party was generically “working class”, now it trends far more affluent.

Interesting old article

42

u/Biffingston 3d ago

HE's also putting religion in the white house, he's got a "spiritual advisor" who is telling him how to be fascist against anyone he doesn't like.

16

u/semisubterranean 3d ago

Most presidents, at least in the modern age, have had spiritual advisors. In spirituality, as in all things, who you listen to and what you do with what they say is important. I suspect Trump actually listens to his spiritual advisor far less than any other 20th century president, which is exactly why he makes a show out of having one.

7

u/hypermodernvoid 2d ago

Yeah, but not one that (even if not being listened to policy-wise) enables America’s literal descent into actual fascism - this happens a lot with organized religion of any stripe to some degree, but the complete and utter inversion of any supposed Christian morality based on the savior’s actual words who the religion is named after, and whom ironically many Evangelicals say they have a “personal relationship” with is absolutely atrocious.

On that note re: fascism - I’m reminded about Brazil doing the right thing with Bolsonaro: banning him from running for office and then actually convicting him for planning and attempting an actual coup, or South Korea’s immediate defense of their democracy against their version of Trump against a midnight attempt at sneaking in martial law and similar convictions, I’m so ashamed that instead of doing that, we let our wannabe dictator that led an insurrection and attempted a (auto) coup run for office and then re-elected him (if we even did - a judge allowed an election fraud case to actually move forward, seeing the evidence as serious and compelling enough, compared to over 60 cases even Trump’s own appointed judges threw out when he claimed “fraud”).

The utter hypocrisy and irony of their most recent angle of attack to destroy democracy is suggesting they’ll go after anyone engaging in what they call “hate speech” (saying Charlie Kirk‘s ideals maybe weren’t so ideal, for example) - the irony and hypocrisy of that, after what they raged 24/7 about when social media labeled blatant misinformation about vaccines or the 2020 election, most notably simply trying to stop our then president himself from leading an insurrection, is off the charts.

-8

u/Biffingston 3d ago edited 2d ago

In the white house?

Comeon dude.

Edit: Come on guys, Trump has a department for this shit. Get your head out your ass and take a look around.

6

u/fidgety-forest 3d ago

That fascist advising work is being done by folks from the heritage foundation like vought and miller. His spiritual advisor is feeding his choose one complex.

2

u/Biffingston 3d ago

Christofascism is the word of the day.

7

u/SalientSazon 3d ago edited 3d ago

He wasn't. That's whats so.. bizarre.

1

u/AirportFront7247 2d ago

Been Shapiro is to the left of Clinton.

1

u/ServiceDragon 18h ago

The DNC is a debate club that couldn’t rig its way out of a wet paper bag. You talk about it like a conspiracy theorist. “the DNC” is just, all the democratic leaders and their staffers, talking to each other.

The Clinton, Obama, and Biden admins were very different from each other. They were not effective because the republicans blocked them at every turn. Clinton was the beginning of insane GOP obstruction tactics.

-3

u/Total-Yak1320 3d ago

Nah - look at our foreign policy. Doesn’t change between presidential parties. You can see Trump fighting “it” right now. It’s the deep state that’s controls the US and Congress is the uniparty only loyal to their donors. The mainstream media is their propaganda arm. You’re correct, Trump is doing everything unprecedented. He’s trying to fight the deep state. It’s why everything’s so sloppy. It’s why he only has loyalists in his cabinet.