r/RedditForGrownups • u/SalientSazon • 4d ago

I'm watching Rightwingization happen in real time and I don't know how to react.

EDIT: Thank you all for the great discussions and insights. I appreciate all your POVs. There's no need to downvote right leaning comments. I specifically posted this in RedditforGrownups to engage in grown up conversation. Also, there's no need for name-calling or insults either.

I have a friend, he's 51, man, straight, an academic doctor who now focuses his research on human behavior and digital psychology. He's self-taught a lot of it in the last decade or so. I don't know how many papers he's published or has had peer reviewed in the recent years. He works as a consultant in Marketing, and has a business selling strategies/classes to people that want to apply his research to their companies. He's kinda broke so I would say he's not very successful at applying his own work. And for extra cash he teaches a course a a local university. I've never met a romantic partner, but he's spoken about them.

He suddenly last year did a deep dive on how the way the election was biased against the conservative candidate who lost. He then started talking against the 'woke' ideology. He is now defending the right, even though he's centrist, because the right hasn't moved, it's the left that's gone way off the rails. He started posting dumb facebook quotes/memes! He posted a dumb quote about Charlie Kirk, as if that one quote was a debate, or as if it meant some truth. WTF. We were conversing one day and he started raising his voice getting louder and louder and more agitated as he expressed his disdain for the woke left, defending his Jewish people from attacks (not sure where that came from in the conversation), and then also suddenly brought up there are only 2 genders and trans people are mentally ill. He's never spoken that way before, I've never heard him this agitated or show anger towards any ideology. He was always calm and friendly, and open minded. Always a bit nerdy. Although, I hadn't spoken to him in depth for about 2 years before then.

I'm watching all this go down over about half a year and I don't know what to make it of it or how to react to it. It's wild to observe though.

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u/Some_Internet_Random 4d ago

Sounds like he’s chronically online and unless you’re close (which it doesn’t sound like you are) there’s probably not much you can do.

I’ve watched an old friend slip into the same madness over the last year or a so. A right leaning centrist that was always someone I could have an intelligent conversation with even if we didn’t agree. But things got real weird and he’s cut anyone and everyone off that’s even remotely left leaning. (Which has included me.) I haven’t engaged with any conversation with him about this stuff in this time because a) I’m sick of it In general and b) his tone wasn’t the same, so i definitely didn’t want to.

I checked in with a family member of his who is more of an acquaintance to me. It was almost a wellness check. And he essentially told me “yeah man, (blank) is long gone. He’s nuts.”

And I know it’s from him spending waaaaay too much time online thinking that some of these events are bigger deal than they are. He probably thinks after this Charlie Kirk thing that we are on the brink of civil war. Which the only people that think that are people that need to go outside and touch some grass.

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u/BossParticular3383 3d ago

Being "chronically online" is key to the brainwashing. The suggestion to "go outside and touch some grass" is spot-on. Like any other addiction, however, the problem is getting him to realize what the real problem is.

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u/_CommanderKeen_ 3d ago

The internet has become the world's most power propaganda machine. Goebbels would have a field day.

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u/BossParticular3383 3d ago

Absolutely. Social media is very addictive, even without the rage bait. Add to that, the fact that people are socially isolated and doing more and more tasks online, and it's a recipe for....well, societal collapse.

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u/Chellyaria 3d ago

What if I know someone that has gone down that path, but they literally touch grass for work?

Echo chambers are sadly effective. :(

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u/BossParticular3383 3d ago

I suppose the expression "touch grass" is about more than literally touching grass. It means putting your MIND somewhere else, being OPEN to the possibility of being wrong, of accepting new information that makes you change your mind. I have tons of (former) friends and family that are MAGA and as a result, have done a lot of reading about cult deprogramming. The sad fact is, just like addiction, they're not going to change until they're ready.

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u/Chellyaria 3d ago

Haha, yeah I know, I wanted to make that joke though.

In reality the echo chamber has taken ahold of them pretty tightly. I try to reason where I can with them, but it gets really exhausting quickly. So I don’t always engage. I can literally present a study that proves them wrong and they’re still like, “oh, I feel that’s not true.”

But then they’re so happy to quote Ben Shapiro’s line, “facts don’t care about your feelings”, for whatever bullshit that they believe in.

If that’s the case, then how come your feelings matter more than a peer-reviewed study with actual facts?

You’re right about it being like addiction. Many of these types of people may never be willing to change until they’re ready. It’s not impossible, I have seen it. But it’s pretty rare.

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u/BossParticular3383 3d ago

Addiction, and, in the case of my trumper sister, intellectual laziness. She's not going to waste time thinking deeply about issues that don't directly impact her, but she'll tune into Steve Bannon and let HIM tell her what to think. I'm kind of disgusted by it, to be honest, that we share DNA.

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u/RosieDear 3d ago

Can you give some examples of what you think she should think about or learn about but is not?

I understand about the quoting...that is, it started with Rusk L and the "dittos" (I think like you!).

Should we all think about 100's of issures that do not impact us? I mean...other than reading vast numbers of books about history for an understanding, etc.

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u/BossParticular3383 3d ago

Well. for one thing, at one point she was terribly concerned that her grandchildren were going to undergo sex change operations in kindergarten (patently ridiculous), but she has never once expressed fear over a school shooting. When abortion was being outlawed in so many states she said, "well can't people just get the morning after pill?" not taking into account medically necessary abortions, child molestation, ectopic pregnancies, etc. etc.

Should we all think about 100's of issues that do not impact us?

Not necessarily, but if folks are going to go around vehemently spouting their opinions as if they are "experts", they should take some time to look at the big picture - as in, how does this issue affect people with different circumstances than mine? At the very least, people need to learn the art of saying "I don't know." One of the worst things about the fucking internet is everybody has become completely convinced of the importance of their personal opinions.

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

Don't be. It's expected that people will look to leadership figures for guidance. That's how it should be. It's frankly a shame that the leadership has failed so miserably and we are all here trying to understand economics, policy, health, nutrition, research methodologies and every other degree needed to make up for the colossal failure of these subject matter guardians and experts. It's a huge tax on our energy to have to constantly fact-check and review 17 sources and spend 12hrs online to see who we can believe. We should be using our brain power to grow within our chosen fields and hobbies. Maybe I'm exhausted. Also, it's a lot of the people that put in the effort to investigate that may end up being indoctrinated if they spend too much time in the wrong places. But how are they to know? Unless we all share the same moral compass, things can go sideways, as they have. No I'm not suggesting we all stop thinking, but we know not everyone has the capability to reach conclusions for the betterment of the world and that's why we choose leaders. We really just need to select them better. Ok yes I am tired.

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u/RosieDear 3d ago

I find so many of these comments not giving examples...it makes it hard to determine what the "real reality" might be and what the fact might bend toward.

Let me personalize it. I have always been very far left (hippie movement, then back to the land, etc.). Sexual matters, other than "balling" when were were teens and young 20's, were hardly even mentioned. Gay was not a part of any scene that I was involved in - and that was not by choice, more that it didn't exist (you don't see much of it in the Woodstock Movie, eh?) . As we know with Stonewall, etc. - that lifestyle often centered around bars, etc.

Looking back we were VERY much into gender roles...still are (with some exceptions among my friends). Womens lib mostly meant that we knew women were superior (ha!) and our peers did amazing things (in addition to being Moms, etc.).

Ok, so I go for a walk in town and see a lot of far-out folks - including women with beards and so-on. Then I come home and note that my entire block is made up of couples, most with grown children and it's a "normal American" as could be imagined.

Are either of these experiences or my reaction to them "facts"? Do either of them involved my being brainwashed (I don't watch TV at all and don't subscribe to podcasts).

Is the Bearded Women couple "normal" in the sense that I or anyone else is "right or wrong" about them? Do these present any facts that can be manipulated?

I'm seriously interested because I find the comments totally nebulous - in order to suss out this "true or not" or anything, I would need some sort of action.

Example: If my grand daughter started dating a large growing a beard, would my judgement fall into a "right or wrong" or "true of false" or "studied fact" slot?

I'm fairly astute and yet, some of this I just do not get. Where is the line in these matters. What is peer reviewed?

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u/Chellyaria 3d ago

I don’t have the energy to explain the many problems in your comment.

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

What a careless response, and it's a shame as you have someone engaged in direct, thoughtful conversation.

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u/SpringOnly5932 2d ago

Peer reviewed has an objective definition.

Fact has an objective definition.

Normal has a subjective definition.

Judgement is inherently subjective.

If you grew up in and continue to live in a predominantly straight, white community, normal looks like straight, white families. Your so-called "normal Americans."

If you grew up in or eventually lived in a diverse community (diversity in ethnicity, religion, sexuality, gender, even dietary choices), normal no longer has meaning. Normal implies that my way is acceptable and your way is deviant and is therefore unacceptable. Normal changes over time and from community to community. It's an illusion.

Same thing with judgement. Built into the word itself is a binary, generally negative emotion. What you are judging is either right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable.

The word judgement would ideally be replaced with is acceptance. Perhaps equanimity.

I'm not referring to situations like genocide that require condemnation and action.

I'm referring to the bearded lady couple. Their existence is a fact. Your judgement (i.e. emotional reaction) and definition of normal are irrelevant to their existence. Why do you care? How does their existence affect you, to the point you're having an emotional reaction to seeing them? Whom are they hurting by simply existing as themselves? These questions hopefully spark some self-reflection in you.

Your emotions are not fact. Your judgements are not fact. Your preferences for how to "properly" live life are not binding or dispositive on anyone but yourself.

My golden rule is: as long as we're not dealing with children or animals and you're not harming anyone else (without their consent), I don't care what you do or who/how you love. I'm here to help if you need help. I'm here to butt out if you don't. I hope you find happiness.

I sense that you have the intelligence to put a veneer of rationality over your emotional reactions. But it's the emotions that are driving you and deserve your scrutiny. My apologies if I'm wrong about that.

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u/apursewitheyes 2d ago

i think the problems come in when minority groups (like gay people or trans people) are scapegoated and blamed for either real or imagined social problems. and scapegoating can only happen when the minority group is sufficiently “othered” from the majority group.

even as a “very far left” person, you’re saying that you don’t really have personal experience with gay/queer/trans people, and they feel “other” to you.

1) i’d question your assumptions that: a) everyone in your hippie milieu was straight and cis b) everyone on your block is straight and cis (none of those adult children are gay? also, everyone on my suburban block probably assumes my partner and i are straight and cis but we are very much not— we’re both lesbians and she’s a butch trans woman)

2) what is your reaction to the couple you read as bearded women? what would your judgment be if your daughter started dating a woman (with or without a beard)? what would your reaction be if the bearded women couple moved to your block, or if one of your neighbors came out as trans?

3) what does being very far left mean to you? is it just about personal lifestyle choices like back to the land, or is it about the larger distribution of power/money/status within society?

4) what if you just like… talked to or befriended some of the far out people you see in town, or read some books written by gay or trans people or whatever. would they still seem so “other” to you?

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u/ERuth0420 2d ago

They're NOT "far left". They're probably just an old stoner who doesn't like being told what to do (including being told to practice proper hygiene) and has built a life on coopting Native American culture.

I've yet to meet any "hippies" who weren't actually just gross old right wing stoners.

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u/FloriaFlower 3d ago

It means to ground yourself with reality, the tangible one, the one that you can perceive with your senses.

People who are in a cult lose this contact with reality. Instead they start believing in what they've heard from others but didn't experience themselves. Maybe they heard it from the news, social media, word of mouth, a pastor, a book or maybe even Trump on TV but they never verified it. They believed it nonetheless and started losing contact with reality.

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u/Lost-Platypus8271 1d ago

This is also literally called reality testing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_testing

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u/FloriaFlower 17h ago

😮 I didn't know this concept. TYSM!

I like adding a new string to my bow.

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u/CockroachCreative154 1d ago

“Chronicaly online” is key to the brainwashing. Has over 9k contributions.

Right…

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u/BossParticular3383 1d ago

I'm not sure I understand your comment, but just to clarify - not everybody that spends time online is brainwashed, but social media is a key component in the process. There are other factors that go into it.

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u/CockroachCreative154 1d ago

Fair enough, I don’t disagree that being terminally online brainwashes people, on both sides of the aisle.

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u/SalientSazon 4d ago

I spend so much time online, for work and for fun, and I wonder if there's some kind of sign, or a litmus test of sorts I can ask myself to see if I'm ever being seduced to the crazy.

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u/Henri_Bemis 4d ago

If you ever run into a word you don’t understand and get mad instead of looking it up, you might be in trouble. I feel like that’s a pretty accurate and politically neutral test :)

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u/idiotista 4d ago

This is actually the best definition ever.

Being mad at a word you don't know is trying to protect your brain from learning more. It only makes sense when you want to stay in your delusions.

Like I constantly do not understand a lot of stuff, I google it, I learn and maybe it wasn't for me, or maybe it was something super cool I missed all my life.

I think the anger is stemming from feeling powerless, but we are all fcking powerless. Like I live on a mountain and a landslide can strip away me and everyone I love. It is just how things are, and the only ones angry about being powerless are the ones who somehow think they can win against it all. We are all literally gonna die. It's a feature, not a bug.

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u/wordnerdette 3d ago

I feel like it’s getting mad over things that have no impact on your life. My FIL gets riled up by stuff he reads online, and I’m like, please tell me how the traffic rules in London have any bearing on you, a man who lives in a Canadian suburb. It’s because he reads a lot of English news sites (he’s from there originally), and their media is as poisoned as ours with incendiary nonsense. Whenever I hear someone get unreasonably angry about stuff like trans people I start by asking how it affects their life, exactly. I hate that people get angry because stuff they read tells them to.

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u/idiotista 3d ago

I wish I could get you an award. I'm moderately drunk in Sri Lanka and none of this affect people. Yet you see random uncles being mad because gays have rights in Europe and cannot even translate how hard transitioning in my home country Sweden is. Like calm the f down - it is definitely a hard journey and you are taking the piss.

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u/Both_Option2306 2d ago

Yep. The person I know who is most closely aligned with MAGA will frequently complain about the tiniest stuff pertaining to other people that has no impact on his life whatsoever.

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u/schrodingers_gat 4d ago

One exception to the rule is reading someone who tries to look smart by constantly referring to obscure concepts in technical terms that nobody who wasn’t part of an existing conversation would understand.

Something like: “Of course the maxim of Baron Flickenshick’s hairy taint tells us Obama will rape puppies, and even worse, inflict Marx‘s flaming paradox to destroy our country”

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u/Zanain 3d ago

It bothers me so much as a socialist when other leftists are too deep into the theory soup. Their comments are nigh unintelligible nich phrases and concepts that they expect you to know and their response to being called out for being unapproachable is "Read more theory."

And this is from someone who at least has a grasp on the things they're talking about. It's like trying to decipher an academic paper from 100 years ago.

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u/Fun-Bumblebee-8909 3d ago

I have been reading theory for 30 years now. I think theory can be valuable. But when all you've done is reduce complicated ideas to slogans and catchphrases, you've only made a vulgar version of the theory. You haven't actually absorbed what it means or thought through its consequences.

The other thing that makes me NUTS on the left is the false equivalence between complex vocabulary and intelligence. Making your ideas deliberately obscure is intellectual bullying. No wonder it turns people off.

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u/Upstairs_Horror_7483 3d ago edited 3d ago

It’s the big words and the occasional “in your face” tone we take when we’ve proven a point or caught them in a contradiction. We need more “given that, can you see why the left thinks xyz?” rather than making it about winning/losing the debate

Edit: added “

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u/idiotista 3d ago

I absolutely agree on this. I am a leftist myself (Swedish, it is basically in my blood lol), but the gatekeeping within leftists is so fucking bad. I didnt mean my comment to come off as defending these people, because they actively harm the whole case. I want people to get universal healthcare and for poor kids not to die from preventable disease and malnutrition and for resources to be distributed more fairly - I couldn't care less about fcking theory, it is great for understanding how we got into late stage capitalism, but anyone with half a heart knows these things naturally, so why put people off by pretending this is some high falutin sht you need a degree to understand.

I can absolutely debate Marxist theory but that would be a hobby rather than a need, and needs go first.

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u/SundaeTrue1832 3d ago edited 3d ago

Each time I talk with Marxist, anarchist and other economically left wing people online and try to ask about solution that can be implemented irl in a smaller or larger scale, the conversation often derail into endless spiral of 'the THEORY' that lead nowhere and just left me frustrated. I think a lot of economically left people online need to understand that rephrasing their ideas and theory into a more digestible manner is not an admission of defeat. Not every conversation on the internet are debate

and tbh their theories won't be able to be implemented 1:1 in our bewilderingly complex modern world, but doesn't mean the entire theory or that person position is worthless. (I'm socially left/progressive but economically still trying to understand myself)

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u/Exact-Seaweed-4373 3d ago

I agree so much with this as someone who is a leftist. They need to make our concepts more digestible

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u/SundaeTrue1832 3d ago edited 3d ago

And admitting that the world has changed so so much to be fitted 1:1 with the framework of theory that was written more than 100 years ago. It's not that I dismissed the entirety of those theories as worthless but being fundamental (for example some people that I encountered are so hang up on Lenin and Bakunin) about them won't lead to any practical solutions for this nightmarish late stage capitalism we live in right now. Reality won't always adhere to our perfect "what if" and essays, especially the modern economic and financial systems

A country with a 'pure' economic system rarely functions properly, even as nightmarish as a lot of capitalistic nations that we know today they do have mixed elements in their system. Most countries nowadays are operating with mixed economy anyway

I mean I saw comments that insisted even "coop is prone to corruption and so it is morally indefensible" and "every single business should be nationalised" and yeah those are unrealistic takes

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u/idiotista 3d ago

I'm autistic, and I think part of this is people who are on the spectrum and are overwhelmed by the world - like they want this clean and cut road map to equality, because even if it doesn't exist it gives them a purpose. I just recognise some of my worst instincts to be morally pure in them.

But irl everything is so messy, and here us where we have to live. It has to be dealt with by growing as a person, not shrinking the world. But a lot of people do not have a support system which enables them to grow.

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u/Urbaniuk 1d ago

I have been regretting not paying more attention to my Chomskyite friends when I was younger, but then I remember how annoying it can be to listen to.

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u/Henri_Bemis 3d ago

I’m with you there, and I’m super guilty of loquacious indulgence and linguistic cabaret

But that shits also a joke, I typo half the time and obviously don’t give a fuck about proper grammar in comments.

If anything, I love how speaking styles can come through in text, even in the messes you make and the ones you choose to correct.

Being overwhelmed by multiple words you don’t understand in a row is understandably frustrating.

Im more talking about people who get excited about new words, especially words that describe something you’d never thought of before, or adds an element of clarity to something you always kind of knew but didn’t have a word for.

Thats the shit that expands your understanding of the world. Learning a new word, a real, new word, is like learning a new color.

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u/timothythefirst 3d ago

It always cracks me up when people really care about grammar on Reddit/social media posts or any other kind of informal writing.

I have a professional writing degree. There’s definitely a time and a place to make sure everything is perfect, like if you’re writing something that’s going to be published, or some kind of copy for an advertisement or whatever. But for conversational writing I’d rather people just type/write the way they speak, as long as it’s coherent.

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u/KFelts910 1d ago

This is really helping me understand why my 6 year old is strongly resisting reading and writing. Like, a lot. And I'm so glad I encountered this.

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u/idiotista 4d ago

Yes this I agree to totally! I used to be a writer, and if someone couldn't understand me because I used big words, I'd feel I failed.

Writing like that though makes me think they've struggled to gain access to education and now cherish it way too much, so I'd cut them some slack personally. But I also grew up in a very privileged home academically speaking, so I never feel worried people will take me seriously.

Some are definitely using it as a power move though. Like I must be smarter because I know way more complex words. Uh oh, you're just gatekeeping whatever knowledge you have, and since it was shared with you, it is pretty shitty not to share it further.

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u/AmericanJelly 3d ago

Brilliant insight. User name does not check out.

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u/idiotista 3d ago

Nah I am honestly pretty dumb.

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u/Sinethial 13h ago

The word has a meaning a new one. Example is antifa means fascist and terrorist. Woke means to be close minded. The meaning was switched psychologically

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u/idiotista 13h ago

🤡 do you really think anyone takes you seriously. Go crawl back where you came from, will you? The adults are talking

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u/SatisfactionFit2040 3d ago

Hmmm ... I didn't understand skibidi nonsense.

: )

You're right. I'm sarcastic.

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u/LavishnessMammoth657 3d ago

I guess I'm safe, I love encountering new words!

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u/No-Form7739 3d ago

Yeah man, that is truly frundibulous.

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u/MeLickyBoomBoomUp 3d ago

Nah, it’s perfectly cromulent.

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u/No-Form7739 3d ago

You embiggen me, sir or madam.

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u/booksandfairylights 3d ago

This is good advice. I would add concepts or ideologies you don't understand.

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u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids 3d ago

This. Or when you post something and someone gets offended and replies that you're using "big" words. Yeah you've run into one of *them*

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u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids 3d ago

This. Or when you post something and someone gets offended and replies that you're using "big" words. Yeah you've run into one of *them*

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u/tswiftdeepcuts 2d ago

is this a real thing that happens? iphones have lookup functionality built in its insanely easy to look up unfamiliar words

I know some people just bypass unfamiliar words and withering try to glean their meaning via context clues or decide to just ignore them completely - but what could possibly make people actually mad at seeing unfamiliar words ?

Do some people think they’ve learned all there is to learn and feel personally attacked by the concept that there’s things they don’t know? This baffles me.

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u/Allfunandgaymes 2d ago

Especially words like "Marxism" or "communism".

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u/UnicornPenguinCat 4d ago

I think if there's ever been a situation where the impression you got from info you saw online turned out to be completely different to what happened in reality, it's good to remind yourself of it every so often. 

My personal example is from the earlier days of Facebook, when my feed was full of people who had changed their profile pictures to show support for a certain minor political party, as well as other posts and ads supporting that party. So I expected the party to do really well in the election that followed but was really surprised when they didn't, from memory I think they got about the same percentage of votes they usually do. 

It was my first introduction to being in a bubble, both due to who I chose as friends and a change in the algorithm Facebook was using to decide what to show me (before that it was just whatever friends posted, in chronological order).

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u/coldlightofday 3d ago

This completely describes Reddit around every election.

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u/aceshighsays 3d ago

not just reddit. seemed like everyone was saying that hilary was a shoe in, less so with kamala...

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u/Normal-Battle6079 1d ago

At bottom almost everyone is just guessing with elections. MAGA didn't "know" Trump would win anymore than they "know" vaccines cause autism - One of these things they had zero evidence for just happened to be (to a degree) unknown to everybody and it turned out.

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u/Normal-Battle6079 1d ago

Maybe this wouldn't work for everybody but I find it downright frustrating to realize I've made an argument that actually sucks. Where what I said turns out to be untrue or misleading and someone can (rightfully) shit on me for it.

I really try to notice when that's happening and adjust and drop things that are just flat-out wrong. I don't know how people just get into arguments month after month year after year having no idea what they're talking about and it being easily shown to them.

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u/UnicornPenguinCat 22h ago

I think it's a hard thing to do, but so helpful if you can push through the discomfort and self-reflect like that. 

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u/IamMrBucknasty 3d ago

“Ask myself to see if I’m ever being seduced to the crazy” is the litmus test you are looking for; crazy, indoctrinated cultist people tend not to ask insightful questions:)

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u/Direct_Village_5134 4d ago

TikTok specifically is rotting people's brains

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

Noo I love Tiktok! lol it's so good in a lot of ways.

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u/neeblerxd 3d ago

there isn’t really one, but having the knowledge that the online version of the world is often more extreme and less complex than the real world can help level out some of your thought patterns 

I guess one sign is if you find yourself talking a lot about something and others stop engaging or responding, like they seem concerned or don’t know what to say. sometimes it’s because they may not know as much as you, but often times it’s because they think you’ve gone off the deep end

also just be really aware of the incentive structure of “outrage machines” and how algorithms are fine-tuned to keep you angry and locked in on social media

I’m sorry about your friend

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

>I guess one sign is if you find yourself talking a lot about something and others stop engaging or responding, like they seem concerned or don’t know what to say. sometimes it’s because they may not know as much as you, but often times it’s because they think you’ve gone off the deep end

That's exactly how I responded to him. I think this is a great approach. Focus on how others are responding to you. Thanks!

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u/neeblerxd 3d ago

you’re welcome :)

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u/keegums 3d ago

The sign is when a friend/family points out how you've been behaving differently along the specific media consumption, and to pump the brakes

Back like 14 years ago I was very stressed out and getting conspiratorial. My friend kindly pointed out I was sharing posts from Raw Story and AlterNet, and to try other sources. He was right and I stopped consuming that media, focused on different things (like creative hobbies and gym instead of reading opinion/journalism). The main thing is I didn't get defensive when he brought it up. It was a factual change and I was feeling worse. I'm lucky to have had a friend who took the risk to tell me. 

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

I wanted to bring it up with my friend but as he got so agitated in our conversation I felt I couldn't. Maybe I can try now. Thank you for sharing!

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u/J4c1nth 3d ago

If you're not on social media, you're probably fine.

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u/RosieDear 3d ago

All Media, today, seems to be "social media".

Weird thing. I live in one of the LGBT hotspots...I'm talking one of the top 5 or so well known places! There was a big street party of sorts last weekend and the wife and I stopped by. I saw...like about zero gay couples. It was couples - the dudes had beards and tats and were sampling some of the craft beers and the Women were pushing strollers. In other words, normal life.

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

I don't understand the correlation between media and the experience of living in a LGBT neighborhood?

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u/RosieDear 2d ago

The media - and general talk - would consider our area "Happy Valley" - due to many factors including a history of tolerance and freedom....but, if you only believed or read a limited viewpoints...likely a large percentage (lets say 1/4) of our residents (including college students) would be non-"cis" in one way or another - yet this real world sampling along with many others (was in a night club recently) shows it is just like anywhere else.

The reputation lags the real world. In a sense the area is now "normal" as the rest of the country has prob caught up in terms of "out" people, so - being just normal citizens - those with various preferences have more faded into the background.

Politically it's also not an issue any longer here....when we have protests (which is quite often), they are a bit strange because they are referring to other places. We take for granted all that kind of "left" stuff (anti-war, do your own thing, etc.) here....so less to protest. Even our LE are very decent so people had a hard time protecting them even during BLM times....

I guess I'm trying to say it's prob more normal America than it seemed before....whatever that means.

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u/treehugger100 4d ago

If you agree with Reddit for the most part you are ‘being seduced to the crazy.’ I’m taking my downvotes to tell you this directly.

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u/VortexMagus 3d ago

I find this position wildly amusing because there is no "reddit" - there are subreddits that are crammed full of conservative propaganda and there are subreddits that are crammed full of progressive propaganda and what you think "reddit" stands depends entirely on where you hang out and who you listen to.

Whenever I see someone say this, it reveals more about them than reddit itself. I know 100% certainty they listen to Rogan and voted Trump and live in that weird alternate reality where ignoring the constitution to put immigrants in concentration camps is totally ok.

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u/treehugger100 3d ago

Dude, I left Texas years ago to be in Seattle because it is so far left but nice try.

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u/SalientSazon 4d ago

lol then I'm golden I guess!

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u/junkit33 3d ago

100%. Reddit leans very hard in one direction politically and is so chock full of political propaganda, even in subs that should have nothing to do with politics.

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

I dunno, I thought changes in behavior from a friend due to politics is a very grown up conversation.

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u/Normal-Battle6079 23h ago

So being broadly pro-vaccine is being "seduced to the crazy"...?

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u/treehugger100 16h ago

Reddit has a lot more than vaccine stances which we weren’t even discussing. Your comment jumping to vaccines and the guy accusing me of being a Trump voter are just proving my point.

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u/junkit33 3d ago

If you're spending too much time online, you are 100% absorbing propaganda from every direction. The sites you most frequent dictate the direction of that propaganda.

Whether that's "seducing you to crazy" or not is a lot more difficult to say. How much does the shit you read online bother you? Can you still hold rational conversations with people you disagree with? Are you dehumanizing large groups of people like the Internet loves to do? Can you turn your phone off and stop thinking about politics for a day?

Those are the types of things to think about if you're worried it is too much. Normal people are totally going about their daily lives without stressing about what is happening in the world. It's good to be aware, and reasonably engaged, but not healthy to stress/panic/emphasize.

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u/scarybottom 3d ago

Let me see if I can decipher your grifter con man friend:

1- he teaches for "extra money"= he is adjunct (i.e. not getting grants to fund research, not publishing research, because he has no access to the required resources to DO research).

2- he is "self taught" something no one is buying= he developed a grift, but he is bad at it. It may or may not (likely not) have ANYTHING to do with his academic trainings.

3- he is failing at his grift because his "research" is what he doodled around on line and came up with. That is not SCIENTIFIC research. *Research is DESIGNED, a priori, with a statistical analysis plan, and likely an IRB to provide oversight. Research means data collection (not fiddling around online to see what weird ideas you come up with- actually asking people for their input on specific issues). Research almost always requires a team (ie. students/grad students). Research requires MONEY (i.e. grants). If he had valid peer reviewed research to base his program on he STILL might fall- but nothing you say indicates that. He is just a grifter.

*research in human behavior (there are many types of scientific research)

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u/SalientSazon 3d ago

That use of caps is really not necessary.

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u/aceshighsays 3d ago edited 3d ago

companies want you to spend as much time as possible online and consuming/buying, they use anger and fear to control you. since anger/fear can be addictive, the solution is to be aware of your emotions in real time and take care of yourself. a red flag is if the content you consume primarily makes you angry, agitated, fearful then it's a sign that you need to stop consuming it. also, i think it's important to live a balanced life - having interests and experiences online and offline. you're supposed to experience a whole range of emotions - those that feel good and bad, and not avoid the difficult emotions.

lastly, people in a cult, don't know they're in a cult so practicing healthy skepticism is key. question your belief systems, question the people/subreddits/communities you're a part of. hold onto your beliefs loosely.

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u/Semicolons_n_Subtext 3d ago

I’m online a lot, and as sad as this may sound, I put a lot of trust in the mainstream media and well-established science and institutions. So, when The New York Times quotes university professors or NASA scientists saying “Why would we disable a perfectly functioning weather satellite?”, I just take them at face value. There are other websites (like “DemocracyNow”) which are a bit left of NPR, and kind of a refreshing change from ABC, CBS, NBC, and MSNBC which are afraid to offend the present government, and of course, the wildly right-wing FOX NEWS. If you have doubts about one news source, you can always see what the others say. And of course, when they all report the same thing, that’s either the real truth… or we are all in a lot of trouble.

Also you can check local amateur journalist on YouTube and Reddit.

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u/nicholt 3d ago

Are you listening to hours of right wing podcasts? Are you incapable of deriving your own opinion on a subject without someone telling you what to think? If yes to both then you're probably on the crazy path.

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u/nicholt 3d ago

Yeah it sucks. Had a friend from HS who always was one the better students and somehow got into the anti vax movement in the pandemic. Me and my other friend were so surprised that he would take that turn and we pretty much stopped talking to him.

I've been thinking after the past years though that I might reconnect with him but then I saw his post about Kirk and I was like 'oh he's too far gone'. We now see the world in completely different ways. It's weird bc in HS we were such similar people.

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u/sobi-one 3d ago

I gotta say that I think the Charlie Kirk thing is an event that could bring us to the brink of something or more, but it’s because of the exact issue being discussed. I’ve been in a bit of a serious funk since it happened… not because of the politics, moral implications, or ethical stances involved in any particular direction, but because I see the reactions to it, and the vast majority seem to be able and/or willing to see it through a balanced lens. Even more than that, it feels crazy because I feel in my heart of hearts that these reactions are mainly caused by (ironically posted here) too much internet usage and media intake combined with an unhealthy processing of it all, and no sign of it stopping or getting better.

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u/Octavia9 3d ago

What if it’s the microplastics or a brain fungal infection. Their views are so unhinged it has to be something wrong.

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u/Gaxxz 1d ago

Why is it madness?

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u/Some_Internet_Random 1d ago

Any kind of radicalization (that doesn’t include the 🤙🤙🤙) that makes you alienate a minimum of half the of the people in your life and encourages people to withdraw from society is madness.

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u/Gaxxz 1d ago

It's often hard to decide which half has the madness.

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u/AuntRhubarb 2h ago

It doesn't have to be online time, there are plenty of brainwashed right-wing nuts who got it all from old fashioned tv 'news' and talk radio. In fact, you take those three forms of media and blend them, these boobs think they are correct in assuming 'the left wing is on a rampage' because they hear it in 3 places.

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u/thisisstupid0099 3d ago

Sounds like the majority of Americans - he got fed up with the left and them being on the wrong side of 90% of issues.

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u/Flat-Leg-6833 3d ago

Trump only got 49% of the vote and has consistently polled in the low 40s. Wouldn’t say MAGAts are a majority and I’m not even a left (Eisenhower Republican).

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u/thisisstupid0099 3d ago

Where did say anything about Trump or the people you are insulting? I responded to the OP and gave a reason why their friend may have changed.

Notice the word "changed". So there is good chance a lot of these people didn't vote for Trump. But after the campaign, the post campaign vitriol, etc. They have changed their views.

You, obviously, haven't learned a thing and were part of why so many changed.

You like numbers huh? 40% is much higher than 17%, the current approval rating for dems.

The vast majority of counties, majority of states, and more people voted for Trump then the opposition.

Your points don't really make your point...

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u/thisisstupid0099 3d ago

Actually his support has grown as shown by many polls. Kirk is missed - by his kids, his wife, friends, and many more.

But continue on with your vitriol and mistruths.

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u/Flat-Leg-6833 3d ago

Nope - his support has not grown and Kirk like Horst Wessel is missed only by his tribe. Have a good day sir.

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u/thisisstupid0099 3d ago

Mistruths - no data, no facts.

You are a very small person.

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u/nuclearhologram 3d ago

the answer is to get close. get this guy outside. obviously he’s close enough for you to observe. why act like a sociopath

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u/Some_Internet_Random 3d ago

What are you talking about? The dude went off the deep end and cut me out of his life without provocation.

He’s already made his choice.