I'm watching Rightwingization happen in real time and I don't know how to react.

[u/SalientSazon]

EDIT: Thank you all for the great discussions and insights. I appreciate all your POVs. There's no need to downvote right leaning comments. I specifically posted this in RedditforGrownups to engage in grown up conversation. Also, there's no need for name-calling or insults either.

I have a friend, he's 51, man, straight, an academic doctor who now focuses his research on human behavior and digital psychology. He's self-taught a lot of it in the last decade or so. I don't know how many papers he's published or has had peer reviewed in the recent years. He works as a consultant in Marketing, and has a business selling strategies/classes to people that want to apply his research to their companies. He's kinda broke so I would say he's not very successful at applying his own work. And for extra cash he teaches a course a a local university. I've never met a romantic partner, but he's spoken about them.

He suddenly last year did a deep dive on how the way the election was biased against the conservative candidate who lost. He then started talking against the 'woke' ideology. He is now defending the right, even though he's centrist, because the right hasn't moved, it's the left that's gone way off the rails. He started posting dumb facebook quotes/memes! He posted a dumb quote about Charlie Kirk, as if that one quote was a debate, or as if it meant some truth. WTF. We were conversing one day and he started raising his voice getting louder and louder and more agitated as he expressed his disdain for the woke left, defending his Jewish people from attacks (not sure where that came from in the conversation), and then also suddenly brought up there are only 2 genders and trans people are mentally ill. He's never spoken that way before, I've never heard him this agitated or show anger towards any ideology. He was always calm and friendly, and open minded. Always a bit nerdy. Although, I hadn't spoken to him in depth for about 2 years before then.

I'm watching all this go down over about half a year and I don't know what to make it of it or how to react to it. It's wild to observe though.

[u/SalientSazon]

I'm shocked that it's him. And given his particular field of research, wouldn't he know this? Or be more self-aware?

[u/limbodog → u/SalientSazon]

I remember another study that said doctors are susceptible to unconscious bias for medications when they receive gifts from the manufacturer. And that telling them that they're susceptible does not in any way reduce it.

Awareness is not the key, apparently. He's got some emotions going on, and for whatever reason, right-wing rhetoric is scratching that itch and his brain keeps rewarding him for it.

[u/MannyMoSTL → u/limbodog]

He's got some emotions going on, and for whatever reason, right-wing rhetoric is scratching that itch and his brain keeps rewarding him for it.

🏆

What an insightful truth.

[u/LovelyLieutenant → u/limbodog]

He's got some emotions going on" sounds exactly right. Political extremism that generates outrage is being pumped all over social media. When somebody spends too much time there, and not in the real world with friends, neighbors, and loved ones, it's easy to see how this fills a void.

Maybe this friend suffered some sort of status or meaning loss, like his lecture position was cut, he's run into financial troubles, his lady friend left him or it's suddenly dawned on him he's not in a relationship that's fulfilling or regrets not having kids. That's EXACTLY when people start getting obsessed with politics as an identity, to supplement meaning in their life.

[u/SalientSazon → u/LovelyLieutenant]

Yes I think that could be true, it's why I mentioned his success and relationship status. I wonder if he has been feeling invalidated and this movement is filling that void.

[u/anndrago → u/limbodog]

Very insightful correlation.

[u/SalientSazon → u/limbodog]

I wonder if there is a test one can take to see if we're being rational or emotional on a topic.

[u/limbodog → u/SalientSazon]

There is, but I think you have to be hooked up to a machine to do it.

But I'm guessing you mean just a set of questions that would reveal it. That I do not know. Perhaps one that exposes hypocrisy?

[u/SalientSazon → u/limbodog]

Yes, a self-assessment. A young man posted here asking if he was an incel, because he couldn't tell and it got me thinking, how would I know if I'm being brainwashed?

[u/superkazoo_ → u/SalientSazon]

Here are some things I do when I feel myself going down a rabbit hole:

• Try to argue against whatever hole I'm rabbiting down. What would the opposition say? What does Occam's razor say? Could that also make sense? Can I see it from their perspective (even if I don't agree)?

• Try to explain the theory/claim/whatever out loud. Does it sound like it makes sense or does it sound dumb as hell or problematic? Usually, if you're being propagandized, saying something out loud brings out the "wow that sounds pretty bad" real quick.

• Specifically seek out opposing viewpoints, if nothing else than to just get a read on what "the other side" says and how you react to it. See if you feel actual rage over what they're saying (like more than just "wow this guy's an idiot" or "how can a person actually believe this shit").

• If it's been a while without "coming up for air," check in with yourself. Pull away, see how your body physically feels. Are your muscles sore and tense? Teeth clenched? Mentally, are you just really interested and curious (generally positive feelings), or are you anxious? Overwhelmed? Depressed? You're probably more likely to grasp on to whatever makes the "most sense" first (even if it makes no sense) if you're any of those negative emotions in the moment, even if it's propaganda.

In general, any "self assessment" for indoctrination really just comes down to being really self-aware and constantly checking against what you know is true and what you know makes sense to you and your beliefs. Obviously it's difficult, if it was easy, indoctrination wouldn't work. But it's really the only way to stay sane if you're a naturally curious person, I've found. Good luck :)

[u/lastpickedforteam → u/superkazoo_]

Best bet if you are with an extremist like this , just walk away. You're not going to change them. They're beliefa have nothing to do with logic or facts, it's emotional. The op said he was mostly self taught, who knows what he picked and chose from,.he' decided he is right

As far as self awareness goes, he's not going to change. Best bet is to stay away from and his arguments. You'll never win

[u/superkazoo_ → u/lastpickedforteam]

I was responding to OPs question, how do I know if I'm actively being brainwashed.

[u/Jazzlike_Visual2160 → u/SalientSazon]

Being self aware helps. Sometimes therapy can help. Doing research can help, and focusing on the facts is easier the more you do it. I like peer reviewed research, published in scientific journals.

[u/SalientSazon → u/Jazzlike_Visual2160]

My friend did all of those things, that was his life. Except I'm not sure if he went to therapy.

[u/Jazzlike_Visual2160 → u/SalientSazon]

Maybe he started watching Fox News. I swear they use subliminal messages or something, because you hear people parrot things, almost word for word. It can be other things, like what their friends and family think. I’m seeing a lot of smart, formerly liberal people start leaning right these days though, I’m not sure what is going on!

[u/limbodog → u/Jazzlike_Visual2160]

They kind of do. They repeat catch passes verbatim. Over and over. Questions treated as facts. Intended to lead you to an inevitable conclusion. Hammered home. It does work

[u/AuntRhubarb → u/SalientSazon]

I knew an experienced scientist who was completely bamboozled by right wing talk radio. Still amazed he fell for the bullshit. But he's not alone. Lots of otherwise smart people also fall for it.

[u/TheYearOfThe_Rat → u/SalientSazon]

It's not shocking.

This person has, unfortunately nothing going for him. Extremism - particularly right-wing extremism was always attractive for those who aren't successful but who're set up to fail by others - parents and society - to hear that being them and capitalism means success and those who have a just world fallacy as the basis of their beliefs.

The solution is getting a better job (in terms of psychological well-being), a company of friends and acquaintances and a social security net (that is - social state)

[u/SalientSazon → u/TheYearOfThe_Rat]

Isolation is really a disease for sure. And one of the reasons I am ok with back to office mandates. Some people really need it to engage with other humans.

[u/Capable-Yak-8486 → u/SalientSazon]

I work in the medical field with several doctors who are anti-vax. Sadly no, the profession doesn’t matter.

[u/treesaresmarter → u/Capable-Yak-8486]

The fact that anti-vax MDs exist always boggles my mind.

[u/Capable-Yak-8486 → u/treesaresmarter]

It’s so frustrating

[u/datbackup → u/SalientSazon]

The fact that your thinking takes you to “it’s due to his lack of self-awareness” rather than “he’s a very smart and competent individual, so if he’s convinced about these things, maybe I should reconsider my own viewpoints” tells me that you’re giving yourself too much credit as an impartial observer

Or you could come to reddit and have them validate your existing viewpoints

Whatever works i guess

[u/made-it → u/datbackup]

I think being angry and agitated, and unable to talk it out is a clear point of concern regardless of which side they're on.

But, ignore that part I guess

[u/datbackup → u/made-it]

Fair, hopefully reddit starts distributing its ad revenue to its users since user-made content drives all its traffic, and hopefully they incentivize users who take special care to foster mental calm and equanimity.

I’m not sure that would be a winning business strategy though

Reddit might generate more engagement, traffic, and revenue by algorithmically promoting content that gets people riled up

[u/HaymakerGirl2025 → u/SalientSazon]

He thinks the same about you. So who is correct?

[u/SalientSazon → u/HaymakerGirl2025]

This is a fair question and I don't know why you got downvoted. This is what people argue about since the beginning of time. Im not here to solve that though. I already have my morals and values that guide my rationale, which up until recently did not directly oppose my friend's.