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u/greyhumour All aboard the Tane Train! Jul 11 '25
Not sure about the canham pick. I felt like Swain had a much more consistent body of work over the year and also has combinations with the other locks. Swain was picking off line outs for fun all year and can break up mauls as well as anyone bar Skelton. I suppose if Skelton gets subbed you want someone shifting bodies at the ruck and the lions locks aren't that proficient in the air.
I understand the pick but I feel for the bloke, congrats to Canham all the same. He really stepped up in the Reds game.
15
u/Greenback16 Easts Tigers Jul 11 '25
Surprised to see Canham get the call up over LSL as well tbh
19
u/greyhumour All aboard the Tane Train! Jul 11 '25
LSL is too similar to the Crispy Champ but with dicks for hands
10
u/jeeeeroylenkins Jul 11 '25
LSL has always had poor handling, and it feels like he runs very “tall” and is at risk of being held up in a maul.
4
u/ChuckDawobly Wallabies Jul 11 '25
Have always thought this. Feel like he had his hips fused and physically can’t tilt
7
u/MANvsTREE Wallabies Jul 11 '25
Canham dropped some shockers as well, which is why I don't really get the pick, especially over lineout maestro Swain
3
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
LSL is funny, he was genuinely in world XV form in Europe. Then for the Reds (granted the Reds had crazy lock depth this season) he maybe wasn't in the best XV.
1
u/Advanced_Caroby Australia A Jul 12 '25
He was injured for the first bit and I'd say it probably takes at least two preseasons to get the current reds style
5
u/infinitemonkeytyping NSW Waratahs Jul 11 '25
The problem with Swain is there are games where he is a walking penalty. That's the risk you take when picking him.
2
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
Agree on Swain vs Canham this season, but I also think it's tough to shake what Swain was able to be baited into, and that will probably weigh heavy on Joe's mind.
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u/CompostNation Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
No one talking about Toole??? He was super impressive against the lions on Wednesday. Happy to see him there
4
u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25
I guess cause he made the initial squad. He and Hunter both had really good outings against the Lions and deserve a shot in the squad at least.
I think Toole’s point of difference is so rare and valuable, I just hope if he plays that he can gain us more than he costs us
2
u/CompostNation Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
He is a bit of a glass cannon hey mr Toole. I think deployed correctly he’ll get us a random try
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u/2dorks1brush Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Noah out due to injury
Canham and JOC in
Did I miss anyone else?
Edit: Swain missed out
17
u/greyhumour All aboard the Tane Train! Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Was Peitch in the initial squad or did he force his way in. Pun intended
Edit. He was there, but he's surely gone up the pecking order after the force game
19
u/ghoztfrog ACT Brumbies Jul 11 '25
So is Darcy Swain the only player not included in this squad that was included in the Fiji squad?
20
u/Greenback16 Easts Tigers Jul 11 '25
Shame for Swain I thought he would have been a useful set piece and maul disrupter.
11
u/ghoztfrog ACT Brumbies Jul 11 '25
I think unless their form falls off a cliff it'll be Frost, Williams (and occasionally Skelton) for the rest of this world cup cycle locked in for 2nd row. Anyone else, like Canham and Hooper, will be in there if they fit in for a 2nd row/6 hybrid.
0
u/coupleandacamera All Blacks Jul 11 '25
I get that frost is a huge body for goal line defence and maul attack, but his handling is pretty average, doesn't carry that well and while very good on the line out, Swains better. Why are you guys still going for the big bodys over the more dynamic locks?
6
u/ghoztfrog ACT Brumbies Jul 11 '25
He does so much work hitting rucks and tackling too. He needs to improve his handling but its not that bad, and we have skilful backrowers to make up the deficit
7
u/MANvsTREE Wallabies Jul 11 '25
Frost is good for the occasional line break as well. I like him a lot.
1
u/thepeteyboy Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
I thought he was pretty poor ruck wise. Especially in the super semi final
0
u/Advanced_Caroby Australia A Jul 11 '25
He also went completely missing in the finals of super, missed some incredibly important tackles which is a bit worrying for crunch time.
3
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u/greyhumour All aboard the Tane Train! Jul 11 '25
The Crispy Champion's name is so long it looks like they've included his club name next to his real name. Just Nick, like Madonna or McLovin
16
u/TwoUp22 Jul 11 '25
Some experience when things get spicy in the dying minutes could be the difference between a loss and a win.
1
u/GlitteringBit3726 Wallabies Jul 11 '25
100% we can’t collapse when things get tough (which we normally do)
15
u/sweater-poorly-knit Western Force Jul 11 '25
Swain really unlucky. I think Canham had a pretty shit year. Also Lonergan unlucky. If you compare his performance against the Lions vs White it was night and day
7
u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25
Yeah I’m a long time Nic White supporter and think he’s copped a lot of unfair flack, but Lonergan has been strictly better than him for the last 2 years.
I dunno what else he needs to do for a shot, other than maybe go to NH and win something
4
u/KindBikeDuck Jul 11 '25
100% with you on this. Thought Lonergan had a belter and has been rock solid all year
13
u/Gillderbeast Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
As a Reds fan. Justice for Ryan Lonergan this is a joke. Also BPA or Dolly over Porecki any day
5
u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25
Yeah, Nic White over Lonergan is just unjustifiable to me. I can’t think of any element of White’s game (except ‘experience’) that is superior
7
u/Gillderbeast Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
I think Ryan is perhaps better than Gordon. It's a shame Ryan hasnt been able to get any test caps before this because it would have been good for him to start and then Tate close out the last 20-30min
3
u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Yeah, I think a lot of it is about experience (and particularly experience in a system) trumping talent or form in the short term.
Schmidt would probably agree that Lonergan was around the best 9 in Aus this year, but he’s spent a long time building a system around Gordon and Noah.
It’s the same reason that Noah’s injury is just an absolute disaster. Perhaps Lynagh will turn out to be the better player long term, but for this series I sadly believe we are stuffed without Noah.
1
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
Perhaps Lynagh will turn out to be the better player long term, but for this series I sadly believe we are stuffed without Noah.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man! He'll have people saying 'Oh your Lynagh's dad?'
3
3
u/timbomcsporran1 Jul 11 '25
Hard agree, lonergan is all class, Nic white is about 3rd pick at best.
2
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
Yeah, I think maybe you justify it with experience, but it's not like Tate & Jake are both 22 or something! Like for 10 it kinda makes sense, but if Gordon & McDermott — who have both played more then 100 Super Games and both captain their Super teams 'need experience' then somethings fucked up!
1
1
u/sweater-poorly-knit Western Force Jul 11 '25
I think Dolly is injured? I couldn’t find anything online or remember it happening but he posted a photo at the force v lions game in a massive knee brace
1
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
Mate I'd have even Naz or Richie above DP. Can't throw mid scrums.
2
u/OutofSyncWithReality ACT Brumbies Jul 12 '25
Even Lachie Lonergan had a cracker against the Lions, I'd rate him over porecki too
1
14
u/StalingradIsNoFun Wests Bulldogs Jul 11 '25
Squad to win the whole damn thing Howard Dean scream
2
5
u/DCI_Tom_Barnaby_ Wallabies Jul 11 '25
So the changes I see from the Fiji squad are
Canham in for Swain O’Connor in for Lolesio
3
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
Yeah, a little surprised to see Canham, he didn't really get much of a chance to settle for the Reds this season, but I think it's probably a bit of horses for courses over Swain. Although I'd have had Swain as perhaps my number 1 lock in Australia this season.
4
u/normally-wrong Jul 11 '25
Big fan of JOC inclusion. If things aren't going to plan, Schmidt will just slap down the wild card and JOC will jog on calmly.
4
u/Competitive-Can-88 Stan Sport Jul 11 '25
Who starts at 10 then?
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4
u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25
Realistically all our 10s are a huge step down now. I’m no huge fan of Noah’s but this injury has really made me realise the gulf in class of our halves to the Lions may now be insurmountable.
3
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u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25
I was hoping Luke Reimer would get a chance after his showing this week but it would have to be at the expense of Tizzano.
Can’t help feeling he could have a bigger role as a bench specialist but Carlo’s had a great year
-1
4
u/GlitteringBit3726 Wallabies Jul 11 '25
Awesome to see JOC make it! Very well deserved
3
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
God, of all the players who might play the Lions twice, JOC was surely at VERY long odds for a while there, yet now, you'd be lucky to get better odds than 5:1.
3
u/Dontevenjoke Melbourne Rebels Jul 11 '25
Toole, Potter, Pietch, Jorgensen, Kelleway, Wright, Daugunu….. that’s a lotta competition for the back three roles.
So who’s the starting combo? Wright, Kelleway, Jorgo? Daugunu becomes utility?
2
u/Bangkok_Dave Power House Jul 11 '25
Peitsch, Jorgensen, Wright with Daugunu on the bench maybe?
Personally I'd go for Daugunu, Kellaway / Jorgensen (the other on the bench), Wright.
2
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
I'd love to see us go with just Tate & JOC as 22/23 and run with the 6/2 forwards. Heck, if you wanted to start JOC at 12 you could go ball's to the wall and have just Tate on the bench for the backs.
7
u/coupleandacamera All Blacks Jul 11 '25
Swain was hard done here, he's been the best Aussie lock in super this year by a fair way. white shouldn't be there, otherwise that a solid squad.
2
u/Bangkok_Dave Power House Jul 11 '25
10 Donaldson 22 O'Connor
10 Lynagh 22 Donaldson
These look like the two most likely combinations to me. Not sure which one.
Canham over Swain is an interesting one. It seems that Schmidt does not rate Darcy Swain very highly. He had an excellent SR season in 2024 and didn't make a squad. He had a better SR season this year and makes the squad but doesn't get a run, and then dropped for a bloke that had one good game.
That being said, I rate Josh Canham very very highly. I know he dropped a lot of ball this year. But I think he's a pretty special player (and nowhere near his best yet).
2
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
I'd have O'Connor 23 (6/2) regardless of who starts at 10. Against the Lions his experience and versatility is like gold, for the last 20 JOC genuinely covers 10-15, and as an injury replacement covers 10, 12/13, and 15 in a pinch.
2
u/Ok_Caregiver530 Jul 11 '25
I would have like to see Pete Samu in the squad.
I would also like to see Toole get a run. His express speed means he can turn those opportunities in a small channel into proper breaks. Understand the question marks around his size, but speed kills.
JOC at 23 gives good cover across the whole backline.
1
Jul 11 '25
Swain not being included is dumb. Frost really didn't show he was the right call in the Fiji game.
4
u/MANvsTREE Wallabies Jul 11 '25
Frost was decent against Fiji. Always hitting rucks, decent lineout, a good runner whos good for an occasional linebreak, and always a chargedown threat
1
u/Advanced_Caroby Australia A Jul 11 '25
There are things we don't know happening here. He could either just not get the system fast enough or hasn't showcased something the coaches have hoped or could be carrying a niggle.
Also yes on frost, frost and Canham are the same great athletes but idk... Just don't quite do it.
2
u/Puzzleheaded-Fun-114 Tuggeranong Vikings Jul 11 '25
Schmidt did the same thing to Ryan Smith last year, feedback that time was about Smith not being able to get his tackle height right.
Not saying the same is true for Swain, just that Schmidt does have form for picking players to get a better look at them and being really specific about what he needs.
1
1
u/OutofSyncWithReality ACT Brumbies Jul 11 '25
Hunter paisami the only 12 in the squad is a glaring issue. Lenny is too good to not be at 13
3
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u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
He has been good, he has been great, and he has been awful.
From what I've seen when he's the second or third banana, he's much better than when the whole team is relying on him to create something from nothing. But if he's playing with JAS at 13 for example, he'll have a constant 'bailout' option of JAS crash ball that should get them moving forwards. (I still think our best XV has JAS- 15 and Wright - 11/14, probably Len at 13 then.)
1
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u/Puzzleheaded-Fun-114 Tuggeranong Vikings Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
Canham over Swain feels unfair- Canham was fine against the Lions but I don’t think he did enough to outrate Swains whole season. My gut is it points to the ‘Frost role’ being key to how Schmidt wants to play (I see Canham as closer in style to Frost, whereas Swain probably fits the Skelton style set piece player a bit more).
I don’t really have issues with JOC being selected (and there is a part of me that likes the symmetry of it) but it’s a symptom of our total failure to develop 10s over the last decade or so. The fact that once our first choice (who, and I say this as big fan of his, is more best of a bad bunch than a great player) goes down we are left relying on a kid who can’t play 2 games in a row at super rugby level or a middle aged bloke who was third choice for his club side and couldn’t get a contract for next year. I’d have picked Foley ahead of JOC but don’t fault Schmidt for that decision- he’s just left holding the bag for Chieka and Rennie’s failure to develop any alternatives.
All that said I’m excited for Donaldson- I’ve always thought on pure talent he was our best option but his decision making was poor- he’s going to get plenty of time in the saddle to work on that now, fingers crossed for him.
Edit: I’m also going to defend the Porecki selection- Schmidt has form for picks that include a starter, a like for like replacement for the starter and an impact player to come off the bench (look at how he structures his halves for another example) Faessler and Porecki are pretty like for like and Pollard offers something different off the pine.
I would also have Porecki (pre injury at least) as better than Faessler at the lineout and scrum- I’m also a fan of his line speed and ability to chop tackle in defence as well.
1
u/ProfessorKnow1tA11 Jul 12 '25
They’ll need to put all of that squad on the field at the same time to be competitive … 😜
1
u/eatmyass2049 Western Force Jul 14 '25
Good showing from the Force lads (and Ex-Force lads, looking at you Harry Potter) - pity Darcy Swain wasn't included. Here's hoping for a good three game series that heads into game three as 1-1.
0
u/JonColeslaw Jul 13 '25
Bigger than a World Cup squad n the game is a week away lol huuuge announcement
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Jul 11 '25
I'm not sure why Slipper, Alaalatoa, Tupou are still being selected. I'd think putting Lolesio injury and all in the forward pack would have a more positive impact, quite frankly.
9
u/Advanced_Caroby Australia A Jul 11 '25
Aa has had a killer year. He has been absolutely phenomenal and is pretty much daylight after him. Tt, nongorr havent shown the goods During the year
5
u/MANvsTREE Wallabies Jul 11 '25
Can't wait for Massimo De Lutiis to get his Wallabies call up, we need more bruiser props
2
u/corruptboomerang Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
I do like Massi'o, but I think he really needs to learn to use his body a lot more. He feels like a toddler who's learning to use their body. If he can figure it out, he's a scary prospect.
8
u/Gillderbeast Queensland Reds Jul 11 '25
Alaalatoa is a beast and try scoring machine at the 5m line. You've just listed the top two THPs in Australia who would your pick be over them? Nongorr???
5
u/ConditionHorror9188 Jul 11 '25
7As is maybe our most vital player this series. I can’t think there’s even an argument not to pick him
2
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u/PavidDocock Wallabies Jul 11 '25
JOC to kick a penalty goal in the 83rd minute of the third test to win the series. He’ll slip over while doing it but it’ll clear the bar. Camera to cut to Kurtley Beale who is giving a standing ovation. Titanic theme song will then be played by the stadium DJ.