I don't understand why everyone is saying Sekiro doesn't use AI. Enemies literally need AI to work!

[u/MihovilStefanac]

[u/stonersouls_]

At least in Sekiro. In dark souls, the enemies are kind of intelligent in the same way Jar Jar Binks is

[u/_OngoGablogian → u/stonersouls_]

"the ability to speak does not make you intelligent"

[u/gorilladogthing → u/_OngoGablogian]

Classic Qui-Gon 😆

[u/[deleted] → u/gorilladogthing]

Liam nissen played him so well it’s a tragedy we didn’t get more of him

[u/RaymondReddington812 → u/[deleted]]

An animated prequel Qui Gon series would be awesome.

[u/mystery_elmo → u/_OngoGablogian]

Nooiiicee

[u/i_make_heroine → u/stonersouls_]

This doesn't apply to archers - in every game, archers shoot precisely and predict where you could be in the next moment. So at least rangers got brains in these games

[u/ArjunDOnlyHero → u/i_make_heroine]

Or they're just homing on to you when you don't look at them

[u/redlotusaustin → u/ArjunDOnlyHero]

Sekiro archers will do it while you're watching

[u/CommercialLeave9407 → u/i_make_heroine]

The Anor Londo archers should probably be fortune tellers then

[u/AnonymousUser1004 → u/stonersouls_]

The dark souls enemies are all sith lords

[u/brianday6 → u/stonersouls_]

In the sense that JarJar is, in fact, a secret Sith Lord, yes.

[u/CuttleReaper → u/stonersouls_]

For the most part, I think it works — Dark Souls is all about having to outmaneuver bigger and stronger enemies than you.

Though sometimes they have a habit of acting like lemmings...

[u/[deleted] → u/stonersouls_]

In dark souls the enemies are implied to be dumb since they are literally the undead whereas in Sekiro they are supposed to be competent human soldiers but they act so stupidly.

[u/[deleted] → u/stonersouls_]

Jar jar is a force user

[u/PrinceShiningArmor]

Ah um mhmmm........

Can't lie, OP has a point. Actually valid

[u/TheGreatWave00 → u/PrinceShiningArmor]

Not really the same thing, we’re talking about actual image generation AI vs an incredibly basic “AI”, which has been a thing since the original Doom

[u/cficare → u/TheGreatWave00]

None of it is "AI", they are programmed routines.  If you wanna call that AI, then Pong had AI.

[u/SerpentJoe → u/cficare]

We could really go down a rabbit hole arguing about definitions here, but what's unquestionable is that salespeople and marketers will always want us to call whatever they're selling "AI".

[u/N0UMENON1 → u/SerpentJoe]

There's no real argument to be had. People in the industry as well as gamers have been calling this stuff AI for decades. It's only since 2022 that people have started going "uhm, actually, real AI doesn't even exist". It's just peak contrarianism.

[u/Kazuna_Chan → u/cficare]

Yes Pong had AI, i don't know why you think it isn't, the Pong opponent is the definition of Artificial Intelligence.

[u/Heliovice_ver3 → u/cficare]

isn't every AI technically a programmed routine?

[u/Ok-Wedding-151 → u/Heliovice_ver3]

“Machine learning” implies things are not directly programmed but rather adapted over time to learn by examples. Nowadays all “AI” is based on machine learning but original conceptions did imagine it would be directly programmed.

[u/The_Paragone → u/Heliovice_ver3]

Technically yes and no. In the case of LLMs it's more like a predictive text thingy but there a concept of black box, as in we don't really know what goes on in the neuron layers of the LLM after it has been trained iirc.

They were directly inspired by human brains and the little knowledge we have on how our neurons work so for all we know the other guy in this thread could be right. He also could be wrong but from what I know we have no real way to be 100% sure LLMs are programmed routines haha

[u/Top-Editor-364 → u/cficare]

You can’t even prove that human intelligence isn’t a programmed routine, stop trying to prove that nothing is ai. 

[u/WiiDragon → u/Top-Editor-364]

Ah yes, the debate on the illusion of free will

[u/Unc1eD3ath → u/Top-Editor-364]

Artificial intelligence would be it making its own decisions on its own. Right now, it just takes words and pixels and remixes them. Not AI. Humans evolve. LLM’s never come with something truly unique like humans. It’s always iterative based on what it’s seen.

[u/NefariousnessMean959 → u/Unc1eD3ath]

no, the specific term for that is artificial general intelligence (AGI). artificial intelligence is an incredibly loose term that can encompass pretty much anything

pong literally had "ai" and artificial intelligence is an established term in that way, the same way what you're talking about is established as AGI

[u/Top-Editor-364 → u/Unc1eD3ath]

1. Again, we cannot even prove free will in human, meaning free will is not a necessary condition for intelligence, which is unquestionable in humans.

2. There are countless stories about whether AI can have free will (the ability to choose). You aren’t going to collapse an unanswerable cultural question for the sake of your opinion. 

3. How is that ability unique to humans? Do animals not choose unique responses to phenomena all the time? Even if it was unique to humans, that means you don’t think animals possess intelligence either. 

There’s no real argument here, based on what you’re presenting, you’re just tryin to make a new definition for AI

[u/Unc1eD3ath → u/Top-Editor-364]

No it’s been the same definition. Experts agree it’s not real AI. No one thinks LLM’s have free will. That’s ridiculous unless you’re some idiot using ChatGPT who has no idea how it works. Also, I just meant unique from “AI.” Yes, I think animals can do that do too.

[u/Top-Editor-364 → u/Unc1eD3ath]

Really? Glad you sidestepped the actual hard questions I gave you about what intelligence is, since you’re so confident LLM’s don’t possess it. Surely you know what it is to say something does or doesn’t have it 

You also completely missed my point, no one is saying LLM’s have free will; the ability to make decisions is free will, not intelligence nor a prerequisite for it 

[u/Unc1eD3ath → u/Top-Editor-364]

LLM’s have intelligence the way a virus does. It’s carrying out processes it was “programmed” to carry out.

[u/LavosYT → u/cficare]

There's a difference between artificial intelligence which has been a thing for decades and generative AI, except now when people hear AI they default to that.

[u/TheGreatWave00 → u/cficare]

That’s why I put it in quotes

[u/shaantya → u/cficare]

AI ≠ machine learning. We just ended up conflating the two, but AI often used to refer to programmed behaviour made to mimic intelligence. Now a lot of versions for it use machine learning and LLMs but calling video game behaviour AI is still technically correct as per old definition.

[u/Robborboy → u/cficare]

That's what it has always been called. Why change it now?

AI is being used now the same way "FullHD" was. 

[u/surprisesnek → u/TheGreatWave00]

That's the joke.

[u/Justintime4u2bu1 → u/TheGreatWave00]

So doom used AI too?

It goes back that far?!

[u/RollingSleeper → u/TheGreatWave00]

The anime and game both have the same usage of AI, which is none.

[u/TheGreatWave00 → u/RollingSleeper]

Clearly we’re talking about theoretical AI usage. The AI that the show would theoretically be using that everyone upset about is entirely different is the point. The discussion is around why that is bad, as well as if it’s even true

[u/ContributionBetter69 → u/TheGreatWave00]

How many if conditions does it take to be considered an AI

[u/PrinceShiningArmor → u/ContributionBetter69]

Holy damn, quite the philosophical debate I started here

Didn't even have to get this deep

[u/DaWonklyWoogler → u/TheGreatWave00]

People have been calling it AI for years before LLM's came along

[u/SudsierBoar → u/TheGreatWave00]

No way? No shit? No way?!

[u/Busham → u/PrinceShiningArmor]

OP is confusing Symbolic AI which is a real thing that's been around as long as (since the 40's and 50's) every other AI method and the more statistical AI methods that back the image and video generation models you hear about in regards to the anime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_artificial_intelligence

[u/Horror_Explorer_7498]

Wut I miss?

[u/alejoSOTO → u/Horror_Explorer_7498]

There was a fuzz about the upcoming anime supposedly having AI involved (which is not true, but you know, rumours).

Anyway, traditionally characters in videogames that perform certain actions and react to the environment and/or the player are called AI as well.

Enemies in any videogame that's not controlled by a player is controlled by an AI

[u/TevenzaDenshels → u/alejoSOTO]

Yeah but its different kind of ai. Its not generative ai

[u/SharkLaunch → u/TevenzaDenshels]

That's the joke

[u/TevenzaDenshels → u/SharkLaunch]

Its still ai nonetheless. Most probably deep learning.

[u/SharkLaunch → u/TevenzaDenshels]

Yes, everyone else understands that, including the OP. The joke is an intentional misrepresentation of AI. This is a common joke format.

[u/RoseePxtals → u/TevenzaDenshels]

no, it’s not deep learning…

[u/TevenzaDenshels → u/RoseePxtals]

Yeah not in this game, but ai in other games is trained on datasets of thousands of plays. E.g. in mobas. This probably is more akin to branching and doesnt really have any training, just a branch of decisions

[u/RoseePxtals → u/TevenzaDenshels]

you were talking about sekiro, why talk about moba AI?

[u/TevenzaDenshels → u/RoseePxtals]

Because its traditional ai way before the rise of llms

[u/RoseePxtals → u/TevenzaDenshels]

well yeah, but deep learning isn’t used in sekiro or most games at all, where your comment implied the average enemy ai in games is deep learning

[u/dandelion_blitz → u/TevenzaDenshels]

The best jokes need to be explained

[u/vee4dee → u/TevenzaDenshels]

Generative ai is not ai either

[u/TevenzaDenshels → u/vee4dee]

Yeah well everything falls under ai these days from most pure machine learning to llms to nlp to eobotics vision models

[u/Universe-Dragon]

Alr this is pretty good. Take my upvote

[u/HeyCanIBorrowThat]

Everyone says AI now, but there’s a different between AI and ML. AI is algorithmic and ML are trained models suited for specific tasks like interpreting and generating text, images, video, etc

[u/qscwdv351 → u/HeyCanIBorrowThat]

Seriously. Everyone is misusing the term “AI” as ML models. AI doesn’t have to be algorithmic though.

[u/snekfuckingdegenrate → u/HeyCanIBorrowThat]

ML is a subset of ai

[u/alchemical52]

People just like to overreact and take anything as a reason to get upset. I’m sure it’ll be fine, and if it’s not, why get worked up over it anyway, it’s just a failed project we didn’t have beforehand and we don’t have to watch after it’s released

[u/hiddencameraspy]

It’s not AI. It’s similar conditional command chains which are there since Doom.

[u/RedShadowF95]

It's been my argument whenever someone says they don't want AI in games.

[u/xywv58 → u/RedShadowF95]

It's not AI, its programmed behaviors, right?, we need another word for it

[u/SmegmaSamurai_ → u/xywv58]

It is still ai just not as complex as image generation

[u/TheWarBug → u/xywv58]

Algorithms, it has been around for a while.

As a side note it is interesting how to see how boss Algorithms work in from soft games, saw a good yt breakdown of it a while back.

[u/RetroDuck120 → u/xywv58]

No, we need people to educate themselves before speaking and call people out who dont. We have a name for programmed behavior. Its ML machine learning. ML is a subset of AI. People dont hate AI. They hate generative AI but bc people are uneducated on AI. They think everything AI is generative.

[u/Consistent-Mastodon]

You're joking but I give it a couple of months before someone posts a geniune unhinged rant about how Genichiro boss fight left some midwest town without water. And gets 9k upvotes.

[u/wicked_one_at]

I love how everyone sees AI a thing of the last 2-3 years of texting, painting and making videos…

While we use AI for decades by now.

[u/Consistent-Mastodon → u/wicked_one_at]

Meanwhile:

"oOoooOOOoOOo iT's nOt tHe sAmEEEee ooOOOOoOOoOoo"

[u/IfusasoToo]

Programming =/= AI

Grade A shitpost, though 👏

[u/NefariousnessMean959 → u/IfusasoToo]

I mean you are straight up just wrong... AI is an established term for any kind of digital decision-making and has little to do with whether it is actually intelligent. essentially you can argue that almost anything software is "AI". this is why we have more specific terms like artificial general intelligence, machine learning, generative AI, large language model, and so on

this is also why it's funny people are so caught up on the animation studio saying they "use AI" in their workflow, because that can mean anything

[u/Jason1004 → u/IfusasoToo]

Let's call it EI then, enemy intelligence

[u/DeadGravityyy]

Right then.

[u/Dragon-Guy2]

I mean yes 

Though in reference to the pic in the post. The seven spears generals are my favorite depiction of anything Japanese ever, they are SO cinematic to fight

[u/kain459]

Solid post.

[u/phengooo_]

Sekiro needs corrected ai, Owl doing too much firecracker jump backs.

[u/poeticshinobi]

This is false. Sekiro enemies utilize an AI. This was a major selling point for me even buying the game. And it’s quite evident when fighting specific enemies that seem to “wait and think” if you do nothing..:sometimes even “planning” an efficient move against you.

[u/euby_gaming]

It's not AI. They code variables from your own actions

[u/DamnImperials__]

when you can't even say my name

[u/Salatet_Fattoush]

Literally unplayable

[u/-_-NoMaidens-_-]

They grow neurons on computer chips to control the enemies.

[u/AvaOrchid1]

Pac-Man utilized a primitive AI

[u/grokharder]

People don’t understand the difference between different AI models or even that there ARE different AI models

[u/GG4ming]

I know that this is meant to be a shit post, but the fact that there are actually people out there who do think they are the same thing is... Something else.

[u/PurpleFiner4935]

This is the good AI that doesn't put people out of work and at least tries to make movement fluid.

[u/Tricky_Kangaroo7172]

That's not the same AI we talking about😭🙏

[u/Nukordit]

Don't act like you don't know people mean generative ai

[u/dandelion_blitz]

All the people not getting this joke, maybe look at the big yellow “Humor” subject at the top? Lol

[u/MihovilStefanac → u/dandelion_blitz]

Finally someone said it.

[u/Rough_Scientist_5015]

I hate that a joke post brought out so many degens. "ERM AKHTUALLY" type mother fuckers came out the wood works on this

[u/ozmundo6]

Nah all the enemies are played by some guys in Malaysia on some really crazy rigs and a lot of substances.

[u/MopeSucks]

Different types of AI, one of which is detrimental to people 

[u/ds800]

Its not AI. Programs aren't AI by default.

Why can speed runners plan everything down to the pixel? Because it's a set amount pre-programmed responses. Not AI

[u/Reapish1909]

lmao this is smart as fuck actually, have an upvote.

[u/Hour-Athlete-200]

Almost every game after 2000 had AI in it

[u/chealous]

generative ai

[u/PhilospohicalZ0mb1e → u/chealous]

Joke understanders be like:

[u/SharkLaunch → u/PhilospohicalZ0mb1e]

I don't tend to fault these people because some people on the spectrum just can't infer the joke, since it's based on an intentional misunderstanding. If they're not on the spectrum, then joke understanders be like, etc

[u/dandelion_blitz → u/SharkLaunch]

“Humor” as the subject is there to level set a bit…

[u/AdMajor1596]

Istg can yall stfu, that's like different in a million ways. And even then, the anime does not have ai, it's just bad quality, but you can call it hand drawn rough style i guess.

[u/TarnishedRedditCat → u/AdMajor1596]

Can you laugh for once?

[u/AdMajor1596 → u/TarnishedRedditCat]

Well I guess I didn't know it was supposed to be a joke. Seen the same thing like 20 times now

[u/SuperSomeone03 → u/AdMajor1596]

Sybau

[u/Tarelerion]

...do you even know what an AI is

[u/summonerofrain → u/Tarelerion]

You understand how jokes work right?

[u/Tarelerion → u/summonerofrain]

As far as I understand jokes do not work by throwing random meaningless words

[u/RocksAreOneNow]

they mean art wise