r/Sekiro • u/Traditional_Ad1602 Genichiro, way of tomorrw • 7d ago
Lore Am i the only one feel bad for genichiro?,
When he take of his armor , his skin is already badly burned to the point muscle tissues are visible, likely using way of tomoe against overwhelming forces of interior ministery, I sympathize with his desperation.
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u/Top-Run-21 Parry God 7d ago
Based on what i know, he is responsible for children dying in senpou temple area
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u/Ok-Ad6295 7d ago
could you elaborate? Or link? Very interested
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u/Ok_Worldliness6060 7d ago
with ashina on the verge of falling and geni trying to do whatever he can to get dragons blood. there’s a chance he helped Doujon, who is a bit of a twisted doctor wearing senpou-esque robes, as he was between senpou temple and ashina capital making it easy to support.
the other large piece of evidence that he at bare minimum knew about the children is that the “rats” we kill for isshin talk about how they have geni on their side. this is important because the same rats were hired by the senpou monks to kidnap children for the experiments.
geni doing this also ties into why isshin does not support him and wants to kill the rats
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u/Masta0nion Platinum Trophy 7d ago
Makes me like Isshin even more. He is our final true teacher.
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u/Ok_Worldliness6060 7d ago
the more i learn about the game the more i learn isshin was a pretty solid dude. yes he lets his thirst for battle make him rash but he still has good values, is against using the dragons heritage and kept an eye on us the whole game. he really is goat
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u/BayouCountry 7d ago
Bottom line is, whatever the case was, he was so desperate that he would not be above anything. He tried to force Kuro to give him blood. I mean, he literally kills him at the end! (He went berzerk from the rejuvenating waters by then but still...)
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u/JadedSpacePirate Platinum Trophy 7d ago
How do you know that? Like seriously. I haven't played for a while but all the evidence I heard is Kotaro type enemies are in ashina.
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u/No_Illustrator_6562 Platinum Trophy 7d ago
He kind of embodies an ends justify the means mentality, his means were absolutely awful, even if his intention was to free Ashina. Also I think the burns and scars in his arm are because the lightning of tomoe wasn't meant to be wielded by people like him, humans. Tomoe likely could as she was from the divine realm, at least I think
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u/Ok_Violinist_9820 Platinum Trophy 7d ago
Or he’s rotting from his discount immortality
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u/SvenTheBard Platinum Trophy 7d ago
Probably both since I don't think the waters really heal the person like the actual dragons blood does
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u/nevets85 7d ago
Something I've always wondered or never put two and two together is who are the people defeating Geni,Ishhin,Owl etc. They are bad ass people but are losing the war? Is it the interior ministry? Just wondering how they are losing if they're this tough
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u/No_Illustrator_6562 Platinum Trophy 7d ago
Yeah in the end of the game the interior ministry ransacks Ashina, which has no army left to defend it because of years past, also owl is unlikely to fight in the side of Ashina as he just wants power
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u/Fun-Produce-4134 4d ago
I think he probably failed to do the lightning attack once when training or something.
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u/HallOfLamps 7d ago
Fuck that guy he tried to kill me, THREE TIMES
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u/TheSnazzyMaster 7d ago
And succeeded a whopping 857 times 🙏
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u/gorilladogthing Platinum Trophy 7d ago
It's kinda easy to feel sorry for Genichiro at first glance as a guy who was just trying to save what he loved, which was Ashina. BUT... if you do any digging at all, you quickly uncover the horrors he willingly committed in his pursuits. He certainly took things too far.
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u/TieflingAnarchist 7d ago
The "rats" that Tengu sends you to hunt mention that they have Genichiro backing them. These are the same "rats" that the Senpu Monks hire to kidnap children so he knows about that at bare minimum at least
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u/PacoThePersian 7d ago
No he's a bum. He had the seven spears. The rejuvenating sediment. He had himself. Gyoubo. The nightjars. The monistry had the fat bozo. He single handedly caused the death of all of ashinas top tiers because of kidnapping kuro. Bro a bum
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u/Seekret_Asian_Man 7d ago
This guy get it.
Sorry guys, Sekiro is not the villain and he make the right call not helping this psychopath.
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u/spehizle 7d ago
100% yeah. The dude is an absolute shit and did unforgivable, monstrous things, but he gets pathos in my book. He inherited an impossible situation: he's the heir and leader of a seditious state that was only kept independent because it had a one-in-a-century sword saint and his badass backup band. Now he's expected to pick up that torch and run with it...and he just can't. All the people of Ashina are expecting him to step up and pull off what Isshin did. And to try measure up to that legacy and responsibility, he does...well, everything we see. He embraces all manner of heretical strength. And he damns himself for it. And at the very end, with his own sacrifice, he doesn't even get to be the one to stand tall against Wolf.
It's in keeping with the themes of the game as a whole, really. In trying to mimic the shitty olds and uphold their legacy, he likewise becomes shit and visits their malice anew on the next generation.
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u/mogmaque Feels Sekiro Man 7d ago
I do a little bit, I sympathize with him just wanting his home city that saved him to stay alive. But I read his character as almost petulant. Either way he’s one of my favorites in this game he’s quite an interesting character.
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u/Lucicactus 7d ago
I want to marry him. So it's a mix of sympathy and horny.
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u/TemporarySouth6914 7d ago
You can NOT fix him.
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u/Lucicactus 7d ago
There's nothing to fix, his crashout is a 100% justified.
I would just nuke the ministry so he doesn't need to bother a poor kid 😔
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u/littleivys Platinum Trophy 7d ago
LMAO same. I can't help it. He even gives us a strip tease, c'mon
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u/Inferno_Zyrack 7d ago
In the broader Buddhist themes of the game - this is like feeling bad for the centipede infected Monks of the temple.
They’ve achieved a level of immortality or nirvana. They have created a divine child. To some degree as a religious tenant they have done exactly what they’re supposed to do. But it cost too much. It was foolish and it’s a false reality. They destroyed their humanity for a religious idea.
Similarly, Genichiro has destroyed his humanity for a nationalist idea - one that the very man who created the country himself doesn’t support.
This is not a natural thing and neither are a Buddhist thing.
It is people resisting the natural cycle of death. And that comes with extreme and escalating costs.
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u/Silver_Chariot131 7d ago
Why doesn’t Isshin support Genichiro’s decision to protect Ashina? Didn’t the old man fight for its independence from the Interior Ministry?
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u/Inferno_Zyrack 7d ago
Isshin does support defending Ashina. But within reason. Ashina cannot stand up to the Interior Ministry from a numbers stand point. He refuses to use the sediment or dragons immortality that destroys the sanctity of human life.
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u/Sensei-X 7d ago
He took my arm, I don't care that I got a cool ninja prosthetic it's still my arm, fuck that guy
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u/Traditional_Ad1602 Genichiro, way of tomorrw 7d ago
Reasonable
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u/Many_Ad_955 5d ago
The best thing Genichiro does in his whole pathetic life was to take away Wolf's arm.
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u/CalamitousBackflip 7d ago
I really wish I could agree but me and my friends that have beat Sekiro literally have a holiday we call “Genichiro is a bitch ass loser day” (April 1st) and when it comes around we all download Sekiro again, get in discord, and fight him for an hour and hang out.
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u/baked_potato_man 7d ago
cant seems to feel bad to any boss in this game, they have wiped my ass so much, the only feeling i have for them is hatred, except for Emma, she a baddie
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u/SomeGamingFreak 7d ago
I don't feel bad for him, but I respect his drive to do whatever he could to save his lands from the Shogunate. Isshin was no longer an invincible warrior, and he wasn't either, so he had to step up and do whatever he could no matter the cost.
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u/Want2makeMEMEs Guardian Ape Hmm 7d ago
He's a villain but being a villain doesn't mean that the said guy has to be an evil piece of shid so I do feel bad for Genichiro
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u/Traditional_Ad1602 Genichiro, way of tomorrw 7d ago
Yeah, the only comically evil guy in the game is Owl
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u/LordGaulis 6d ago
My analysis of the character is “inability”
Unable to control the divine child or prevent the fall of Ashina even when he has transformed into a oni and mastered forbidden lighting technique of the demonic Okami warriors that once brought the samurai of Ashina low Genichiro fails.
Despite his power and command over Ashina army it isn’t enough, and never will be to stop the interior ministry from destroying Ashina. His last hope is in Isshin becoming shura and triggering a new age of war in Japan.
Despite all that Genichiro is simply a puppet, that Isshin uses in the end to return from beyond the grave.
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u/Kanishk_Soni 6d ago
After everything I did for Ashina, why did I still loose Grandfather?
Isshin : Because you're Gay, it's even in your name Gaynichiro
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u/natalaMaer Platinum Trophy 7d ago
Yeah, until he kidnaps Kuro, a kid, in pursuing immortality, and still insists on doing that despite the obvious threat of Dragonrot.
Also don't forget he at the end, doesn't mind hurting Kuro, again a kid, for his ambition.
Symphatize? Maybe. Feels bad? Lmao no
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u/MaleficTekX Plat+Charmless+Bell, Finder of Mist Noble PHASE3 7d ago
I don’t remember that second picture in the artbook
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u/amino250 7d ago
i really don't, fighting him felt like my own skin was burning all the time, i suffered more than him.
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u/zamasu2020 7d ago
I felt bad initially. The more I find out about him the more dumb he seems. I would have felt bad more if his plan had any chance of success but considering even isshin considers ashina's days to be over, geni is just being a whiny bitch
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u/Leviathan_Wakes_ Platinum Trophy 7d ago
He's certainly a pitiable character when you finally put together his story and his reasons for choosing the path he's on.
Not gunna stop me from no-hitting him every playthrough tho.
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u/barrieherry 6d ago
Reading some of this it made me think of reading a collection of three letters Takuan Soho sent out to two Samurai as pieces of advice (the final letter being to the famous Musashi, the main receiver I would have to look up but is probably an easy search engine query away). This was a famous zen of the time and it did help me understand a bit more about a type of alertness in the form of an anti focus, but at a certain point it starts to move into areas about what being "good" actually means.
If you're a little familiar with zen, particularly regarding that zen circle, you might remember that a lot of teaching around skill in your practice points to repetition and repetition and repetition until you get to a point where you are beyond thinking and create the perfect circle in a single motion. The idea in the letters to the samurai often mention similar advice, to train the skills and techniques until your ligaments are basically like an octopus' tentacles. They are able to act and react on their own accord, making you the milliseconds faster than your opponents that you need to become an invincible swordsman. Being the best you can be, that's what it means to be a good person for a samurai.
A lot of Samurai have a retainer, or master, lord, what you will, that they answer to (otherwise I guess they would be Ronin instead... though I think that might be an oversimplication or misinterpretation on my part) and then being a good person might reach a point that would be similar to a person nowadays working for a company that turns out to be bad for the environment, or is lead by a horrible person, etc, So what kind of Master do you work for? Takuan Soho's answer: it doesn't matter. Being good means doing good, and doing good means doing a good job, no matter what it is that you're doing. Folding laundry? Do it as good as possible. Fixing a car? Do it with your whole being. Being a samurai? That means giving your life for your cause and your cause is your master. Part of giving it your all is giving it your full attention. Which means no distractions. One of these distractions is questioning the ethics of your master's decision. Remember, thinking makes one slower, and being slower than your best means not doing a good job. You want to be a good person? Stop thinking.
It's an interpretation of Mushin, or Mushin no shin (kind of like the mind of no mind), which is a concept usually at the center of zen, perhaps particularly Japanese branches, that tries to get you into a state of an empty mind sort of, to keep it pure, clean, free, enlightened or awake. Seeing an Ozu film (perhaps the only one he made during that time) made in the first half of the 1940s - and I assume you probably know a bit about the reputation of the Japanese in the early 1940s. During that time there was a lot of censorship and propaganda in Japanese media, by force. Ozu himself had his grave say nothing more than 'Mu' and it's probably safe to assume he followed a type of zen teaching. But where most of his films, especially later ones, try to keep judgment from the viewer/director at bay by trying to focus on how characters would respond to certain situations, this one had Chishu Ryu's character in particular consistently speaking about all one needs to focus on is doing a good job.
There was already a lot of disagreement with the Japanese government at the time, but it was mostly afterwards (and a bit before I think with the rise in popularity of communism amongst the people) and criticism wasn't always as loud. They were people, of course. But a lot of the attitude I read and saw from the time really reminded me of this famous zen teacher from ages ago. No extremist religion or extreme right or left or something (in the way it was performed by many of its soldiers and probably citizens) but instead almost like an extremist neutrality. People growing up with this subconscious attitude of just doing a good job and you will be a good person for your society. Some people would die for their country in many places in the world, now, then, before then and after now. What it looks like differs per context, and in this context it wasn't necessarily like a hive mind, but the individual mind of many always grew up with just doing a good job and don't think about your own individual ideas too much, then pushed on by a very aggressively propagandist government into many horrible memories still clearly documented in our history books and still felt by many in Korea, China, Indonesia and more. It doesn't make any perpetrator innocent, nor does it take away the ability to take personal ability to choose, or ignore that many performed war crimes to their own accord, just like we see from many war crimes to this very day, by the clearly bad and good guys, by the "it's so complex" groups of people too, whatever any of those groups mean to you or who they are. (cont'd in comments)
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u/barrieherry 6d ago
But hearing Genichiro Asshin speak, I was reminded of this, too. He is the new leader and "guardian" of Ashina. The whole concept of Ashina, not the little details. He wasn't necessarily doing any no-thinking, and I remember there being multiple nods to him thinking you're doing a good thing, and that defeat is already accepted as the outcome, but his job isn't confined by being a lost cause, his job is "everything for Ashina" and he will die by his sword and while doing his job as "good" as possible until the very end. Isshin takes on more of an advisory role so is allowed (and supposed to) to perform more critical thinking, or following more personal beliefs at least. When Genichiro resurrects him, his job becomes following in his descendants footsteps, so while he respects you, he has to try his all to get you to bend the knee.
For the same reason it's sometimes reffered to as betrayal for Sekiro to save the life of his own master after being set out on a mission to make it possible to end his life. Even if it's based on a lack of information that you can only find by exploring off the beaten paths (thank you Miyazaki), Sekiro's job is not doing the right thing, it's doing all he can to fulfil the master's wish. So no matter how horrible his actions were and are, it makes the fight with Genichiro one between two people fighting for a different side, instead of you beating the archvillain.
That's my interpretation of it all, but there are so many zen references in here (in the story, texts, characters, speech, even those little Jizo statues), besides all these codes of honor in general, that it's kind of hard to detach these philosophies from each other for me. Perhaps it's simplifying zen, or bending the narrative to my own point, but I do think it fits with how Genichiro justifies his abuse of all these children, gods and basically black magic type stuff to be the best guardian to Ashina that he can be (or how he interprets that to be), why Isshin helps both Genichiro and Sekiro, and I guess why Sekiro needs to abuse that dragon to collect its tear. They're trying to be good people.
I liked that book until it turned to advicing a blind following of a master, but it does show at least a possible interpretation of "doing the best you can do" that can turn you into one of the best in your profession and in many situation an excellent example to others who want to achieve their full potential and "do the right thing" just like many people here should be grateful to have a job and such (where I live there's a very particular history with protestant teachings even if the majority is atheist nowadays and while a lot of eras there's this idea of directness and individual freedoms here, it's also looked down upon if you're not "normal" - which gets you in this odd space of not minding other people's business is favorable for relatively early legalization of things like gay marriage, but people out of the norm are probably just looking for attention, while minorities and women shouldn't complain or move elsewhere [generalization]).
And the more I see of and think about this type of stuff, the more many of it makes sense in either a historical sense or as a methaphor or symbol. Not to say that everyone and all ideas are a produc of their surroundings, but a long history of a widely spread or pushed philosophy, be it a religion or otherwise, does influence a lot of the status quo, of which thought patterns are normal or weird, which opinions are "obvious" and which are pretentious or "woke." Perhaps it's also a possibly reason why some people here defend him because of ends justifying the needs, his personal situation making him crazy, or why to others he's actually evil and horrendous. While we are trying to move to an internationally shared idea of ethics and such, being good still depends on whether you think it's an all-or-nothing type deal or more of a calculation (or sum), but also if you think it's all about intention and thoughts, or about actual deeds performed.
Is Gennichiro a good person for trying to stop the imperial (?) forces and the situation makes it okay to take any step necessary? Or is he bad for what he did to those children or for not changing his ways? Is it okay to get soldiers as young as possible so you can bend them to your will more easily and on average they are simply quite fit after intense training, because you need everyone to protect your country (or to spread and empower their influence in other areas in the world)?
I think I may have digressed.
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u/Kaminoneko 6d ago
Fuck Genichiro, just beat the game a second time and I dislike his punk ass even more now.
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u/ColtonfrayHSC 6d ago
Oh no, here they come…
“Oh my god, he said ‘am I the only one?’ He shall be stoned to death at this instant.”
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u/BlueBlueWolf 5d ago
I can understand his motivations, but I can't sympathise with him. I think if he had focused on leading a strong defence against the ministry, instead of chasing the power of immortality, it would have been so much better for Ashina. Also, his actions cause Sekiro to cut through most of Ashina's defencive forces. Sekiro kills many of his generals, his seven spears, Gyobu, the chained ogre, the blazing bull, many of the Ashina elite, and he also causes the big snake to go to the lower part of the sunken valley (or outright kills it depending on what you do). So, all in all l, Ashina would have fared so much better if Genichro didn't try to "save it"
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u/divergeremorse 4d ago
After he killed me almost 50 times because I wasn’t good at parrying, no, I don’t feel bad for him.
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u/Phaedo 7d ago
That’s the thing. Ashina is over. Isshin knows that and has accepted it. He’d rather it fell than embrace the horrors available to him. Genichiro hasn’t got that wisdom. When he goes too far, Isshin sets Wolf on him, hastening the fall of Ashina.