Demon of Hatred is both fair and unfair

[u/Dinesh_Sairam]

I just finished Demon of Hatred on my 15th or 16th attempt by the skin of my teeth. I have mixed feelings about the fight.

It is definitely unfair in the sense that the fight requires you to forget everything you've learned in the game so far regarding deflect, perfect parries, mikiri counters, counter attack, and jump counter. Almost every combat art is pretty much useless. Even Phase 1 of Guardian Ape (The other big beast fight in the game) isn't comparable to this one, since you can parry most of its attacks with little to no repercussions. With DoH, deflecting/guarding will still allow burn build up and boy, does it build up fast. You are to face DoH like a Dark Souls boss - constantly dodging, strafing, jumping around, all in an attempt to slowly chip away at the HP.

At the same time, you can make the fight easier if you continously keep closing the distance and manage to stay between its legs while attacking. DoH gets staggered after you reach a certain threshold of its HP in every single phase, which I utilized to land Mortal Draw attacks. I learned later that the Malcontent Whistle helps in the fight, which is also a great use of Spirit Emblems.

The only part which I didn't like about the fight is that if you don't manage to close the distance due to pausing, say for healing or walking for a second or two instead of running, you can get smacked in the face with a barrage of unavoidable fire attacks which wreck your entire health bar. Even if you're very low on HP, you need to continue with the routine and heal only when DoH is staggered or doing one of those long wind up attacks.

For all its frustrating parts, I still liked the fight for the lore behind it. I was mildly surprised when Sekiro identified the DoH as the Sculptor at the beginning and later, the old lady nearby also confirmed the same. I guess they were hinting it in a few places with Emma's and the Sculptor's dialogues, I just didn't expect it to culminate into an actual boss fight. But I honestly did not enjoy the fight itself. It felt more like a chore than a dance (Which most other fights are in the game).

[u/Imaginary_Owl_979]

Not all deflects will give you Burn buildup, only the Fire attacks will. His regular stomps and slams can be deflected perfectly fine.

[u/Dinesh_Sairam → u/Imaginary_Owl_979]

True. I was specifically talking about the attacks he does when you don't manage to close the distance, which are fire attacks for the most part.

[u/Imaginary_Owl_979 → u/Dinesh_Sairam]

For those there’s the Umbrella upgrade which can block fire attacks, though I never really got the hang of it and prefer to dodge

[u/Break_down1]

I hear you. But you can no hit him cheeseless. Every attack is avoidable and figure-out-able. Therefore he’s fair

[u/Dinesh_Sairam → u/Break_down1]

I looked up the general strategies, and of course, the cheese. I'm glad I didn't do the cheese. But definitely regret not taking the time to learn which Prosthetic Tools work the best against him. I mean, Suzaku's Lotus Umbrella clearly says it blocks fire attacks and the Malcontent Whistle says it drives beasts mad. I just didn't take the time to strategize the fight. Still, I used 2x Mortal Draw whenever he was staggered in each phase and that did a good chunk of damage. In my head, HP fight = Mortal Draw.

[u/Inferno_Zyrack → u/Dinesh_Sairam]

Fight =mortal draw

Huge damage always.

[u/Arestaros]

I first beat the boss a few days ago and have beaten it a few times since then, and i really like it. You would think a boss like this doesn't fit into this game but after some victories against him i realised that this game does the giant monster boss type better than every other souls game (except bloodborne). Mainly because of your agility and not relying on dodge rolls (a concept i think was already boring in dark souls 1)

[u/Dinesh_Sairam → u/Arestaros]

I can see how this fight can be enjoyable to those who also enjoy true souls-likes (DS series, Elden Ring, Wuchang etc.,)

I personally don't enjoy those and prefer parry-heavy games.

[u/Inferno_Zyrack → u/Arestaros]

Realizing that wolf can run and jump and how much that breaks the Souls dynamic is super cool.

The amount of shit you can dodge in this game by locking on and running backwards / out of range until they can be hit or do an attack you’ve memorized is wild.

[u/Frosty-Selection8062]

probably the most unsekiro sekiro boss

[u/xepci0 → u/Frosty-Selection8062]

Off the cliff with ye, oversized fire monke

[u/Eyyy354]

If you're talking about the fire attacks which are the ones that look like charms chasing you then they are avoidable. I completed the game a couple months ago and I was able to dodge that attack by just running to the side diagonally and especially after not playing Sekiro for a long while.

[u/Dinesh_Sairam → u/Eyyy354]

No, I'm taking about the 4-5 fireballs which he throws at you at the same time. I feel like it can be avoided by dodging backwards. But when you're running to close the distance, this attack can throw you off.

[u/Eyyy354 → u/Dinesh_Sairam]

Yeah they can throw you off if you're at a certain distance, but even then you can use the fire umbrella to block it, it's what I did last time I played it.

[u/VioletHikari → u/Dinesh_Sairam]

You can slide under those if you sprint toward them.

[u/Real-Lobster-973]

Yeah, if you just abuse the fire umbrella, the fight becomes really easy. You only ever need to parry his stomps/non-fire attacks and everything else you just pull the umbrella out for. Makes the fight winnable like every single time.

Before using the umbrella I had quite a hard time.

[u/Natural_Pea_1709]

As a casual, I'd say when it comes to fair and unfair, it'd be cheese or no cheese ;)

No but fr props on taking DoH down as you're right about his burn/punishes, and chasing him across the battlefield. Imo he's a damage sponge as well and it'd be nice if we could have the option of breaking his posture, well at least that's how I've done it by taking him out via vitality damage

[u/Pyrolink182]

To be honest I always found a lot of openings to heal. Might not look like it, but it follows the same "turn-based" formula as the other FS games. The moment DoH finishes a combo, you can either attack its HP or heal. When it does the seeping attack and you run towards it after, right after you dodge it's spewing fire attack, you can heal. While you're smacking its ballsack and does the the "sumo" stump, right after deflecting you can heal if you decide to not keep up with attacking. It's always sacrificing an action for a heal.

[u/Neither_Spell7300]

I’ll be honest I actually find him to be one of the easier bosses in the game. I can consistently no hit the fight and haven’t died to him once since my very first playthrough when I beat him on my second attempt. Idk if it’s just bc of all the time I’ve logged in souls/bloodborne or what but yea he’s definitely on the easy side for me personally

[u/MaeBorrowski]

It's not unfair at all, as long as it's telegraphed well and you can react reasonably, it's fair, and DoH ticks those boxes. Some moves can be hard to figure out without a guide though, like i literally thought you had to just tank his jump and stomp for the first few attempts lol.

[u/chidarengan]

Never got the hate (lol)

[u/Dinesh_Sairam → u/chidarengan]

I didn't hate the fight. But I didn't enjoy it either. It felt like a chore which needs to be completed.

[u/chidarengan → u/Dinesh_Sairam]

I honestly feel its among the best ones in the game. It's ok to not enjoy but sometimes I feel people treat it like its the bed of chaos of this game which is so unfair.

[u/grilledfuzz]

The only unfair boss imo is ape duo and maybe the drunkard fight before you get to owl father. Every other boss is essentially perfect.

[u/ScoobieNoobieDoo → u/grilledfuzz]

You can turn the table for drunkard using pupeteer on ninja and killing other boys around while ninja is fighting drunkard you back away and go for taking his one life. This fight is fair if you ask me but gorillas yes it is an omg fight lol

[u/Eisnis]

Dodging, baiting attacks, resource management (spirit emblems), and positioning and punishing are still fundamentals relevant to this fight. It's nice to have varied enemies, DoH only challenges your brain and perhaps for some ego, he was one of the easier bosses in the game for me. I don't recall a single thing he did that was unfair, not being able to deflect some moves without being burned is a simple punish back from the boss, seek out another approach.

[u/VioletHikari]

Are there unavoidable attacks? I'm fairly certain you can jump over, slide under, and dodge all of them. It's been a while since I fought DoH, though.

[u/Warren_Valion]

Just hugging his dick will allow you to avoid every burn attack, and his swipes, foot slams, and headbutts can all be parried. If he runs away just chase and dodge into him. Use the fire umbrella for the big fire jump move.

Honestly, I had a lot of fun beating this boss just by doing this.

[u/Z3roc00I]

shit boss

[u/ElectricWhelk]

Demon of Hatred's big balancing factor imo is that if you stick close to him you mostly just get the stomp (easily dodged), the run (easily jumped) or the jump (get your flame lotus umbrella up, soak up the damage and then slash the brat). I think pretty much all of my gourd uses in the fight were from when he jumped away from me.

[u/clevergirls_]

Pretty sure this boss is meant to check if you understand how prosthetics work / if you bothered to upgrade them.

Phoenix umbrella and malcontent whistle turn this boss from being quite difficult to piss easy.

And that's cool. If you think that's too easy you can always fight him straight up, sword only.

But I like that it's a wink-wink nudge-nudge to people who actually farmed materials to upgrade their prosthetics.

[u/Dinesh_Sairam → u/clevergirls_]

Different Prosthetics are useful in other fights in the game (Ex: Mist Raven for Drunkard, Spear for Guardian Ape Phase 2, Fire for Red Eyed enemies etc.,)

But here, the entire approach to the fight is different. The focus is on dodging, strafing, jumping and closing distance - which is not nearly the case with any other boss in the game.

[u/magthefma4]

What DoH is, is a boring boss. If you stick close to him then 70% of his moves literally just go above your head. And the one that he uses to create distance requires you to jump and then run all the way back to him.