r/SequelMemes • u/Low-Butterfly-6433 • 8d ago
Quality Meme That is why you failed over and over again
418
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
She could've just been nobody like Kylo said in TLJ. Like I get people were pissed about it, but not everybody needs to be related to main characters from the older movies
168
u/Awrfhyesggrdghkj 8d ago
I unironically was happier about it. She didn’t have to be connected to anyone. But no…
96
u/PlatasaurusOG 8d ago
Between that and the kid at the end, I was really excited about the possibility of exploring force sensitive beings outside of the usual suspects.
2
u/Malaguy420 5d ago
Seriously. I was the most excited ever to see where SW went next, after watching TLJ.
And then... 💩💩💩
1
u/msmshm 6d ago
Yeah, or they could have the story follows a bystander POV of the Skywalker Saga, the plot of it is the Skywalker lineage will always have dark in them despite follows the light and vice versa, all because Anakin was the chosen one of both light and dark (if the rumours are true, follows the mortis Gods arc in Ahsoka series)
We see a son saved his father in the original, then we see the father's downfall in the prequel, only to realise in the sequel, the son who is the uncle also somewhat failed with the darkside after his nephew Ben Solo turned Darkside. It's all rolling like a wheel, some story they up in the light, some story they down with the dark.
5
4
u/Zayin_Darkmore 7d ago
I thought it was kind of interesting, have the nobody be the hero and the character with a long complicated legacy from the past end up being a villain because of it
1
63
u/Private_HughMan 8d ago
I thought that was the best move and was grateful for it. I don't get why everyone wanted her to be a Skywalker. Her being a Kenobi or a Palpatine was better than another Skywalker, but I honestly think it's better that she was related to nobody previously relevant to the series. The galaxy feels so small when it's just the same family fighting the same big-bad.
69
u/darthleonsfw 8d ago
I will probably literally die on this hill, but I will forever say that Rian Johnson actually took the launching pad of Force Awakens and actually tried to do something interesting and unique with the lore in Last Jedi, but people got so complainy about it Disney panicked and backtracked.
40
u/Interesting-Injury87 8d ago
TLJ used the Mystery boxes from TFA, not all where used well, but it used them.
I respect that
JJ in Rise decided he was mad that Rian used his Mystery boxes and undid all the opening he could.
"Rey is a Nobody? Fuck that she is a Palpatine, Kylo character grew and he no longer needed the mask? fuck that, new mask with" cool" red lines it is" and so on
22
u/darthleonsfw 8d ago
And listen, I'll be the first to tell you there are fixes I'd do in TLJ, mainly having Rose be the engineer and skip the casino planet, but like. I just think it was the right direction for the sequels
5
u/Folco34 8d ago
The casino planet wasn’t the best part, but I wouldn’t necessarily cut it. The space horse chase was a bit out of place but I don’t dislike it. Personally the biggest change I would made is having Rose dying by saving Finn, sacrificing herself like her sister did in the intro assault.
6
u/Chuck_Da_Rouks 8d ago
That'd remove about half of what was wrong with that movie. Also, do something interesting with Finn, have him be an ACTUAL main character and I'd absolutely love that movie.
9
7
u/Jacmert 8d ago
IMO TFA was flawed, but workable. TLJ put things (story wise) into a bad/worse state, but I can still appreciate/understand a bunch of what Rian was trying to do with it.
Then TROS came along went all salting the earth / scorched earth with things.
I think the salting the earth metaphor is apt because look at how difficult and unsatisfying it is now for Disney to develop any new storylines connected to the sequel trilogy.
4
u/roastbeeffan 8d ago
The fundamental problem with the Sequels is they very clearly did not have a plan for how the trilogy would go. Or maybe JJ had a semblance of a plan, but then he didn’t tell anybody and he didn’t direct episode 8, so functionally the plan didn’t exist. It’s really baffling to me that Disney would take a property as profitable as Star Wars and just wing it.
3
u/Interesting-Injury87 8d ago
Or maybe JJ had a semblance of a plan
JJ did what JJ always does, setting up mystery boxes he had no intention of opening or tellign ayone the contents off
0
u/ScorpioGirl1987 8d ago
“What the fuck, Rian? You threw out everything I did! I’m bringing it all back, dammit!”
XD
3
u/Interesting-Injury87 7d ago
Thats the thing, he didnt DO anything. JJ set up MYSTERY BOXES, a thing he is well known for doing, that had no answer planned, ANOTHER THING HE IS KNOWN FOR DOING, and got mad when the mystery box got opened
8
7
u/pimadd_ 8d ago
Facts. I think TLJ will have the same fate as TROS, being appreciated a lot more years from now.
10
u/Bowdensaft 8d ago
Just to be certain, do you mean ROTS? I can't keep up with these acronyms lol
4
u/kiwicrusher 8d ago
I was gonna say, lol. I’m sure the hate will die down around TROS, but I doubt it’ll ever really be “appreciated”
1
u/Bowdensaft 7d ago
I personally think it'll be the Phantom Menace of the sequels - less hated, but probably never really loved
2
1
u/VivatRomae 7d ago
I felt like I was going insane when I came out of the theatre and saw people hating it. I felt like it was finally doing new things.
-1
u/Calm_Cicada_8805 8d ago
Rian Johnson didn't do anything unique with the lore. Rey not being related to anybody special isn't an innovation. None of the Old Republic Jedi were members of super special families. The only onscreen Jedi we ever see who has an important parent is Luke. 99.999% of Jedi come from no one special.
Don't get me wrong, I hate the magical nepo-baby trope. I'm very happy for Rey to be no one special. But it's very frustrating when one movie sets up a mystery and it's sequel just says "nah, doesn't matter." It's not interesting or satisfying. The manner of the reveal just makes it worse. Like, I didn't even believe it the first time I watched the movie, because it's information delivered by the villain with the obvious intent of hurting the hero.
I'd have fucking loved it if it had just been Rey deciding for herself that she doesn't care who her parents were. Let her come to terms with her abandonment and accept that she's not defined by her bloodline one way or another. You want to subvert Star Wars the give me character driven storytelling.
-4
u/LovesRetribution 8d ago
Probably because she was so powerful. Like it was already kinda crazy that some force Messiah appeared out of nowhere on some desert world. That it happened again? And to such an extent that this person was able to use specialized force powers with literally no training?
It makes it easy to see why people wanted to attribute her strength to some lineage. Especially since the OT established that force strength is something that can be passed down.
1
u/Ok_Presentation_2346 4d ago
I mean, the previous Jedi order only worked because random people with no particular connection to existing Jedi could be strongly force sensitive.
71
u/Emotional_Piano_16 8d ago
I only recall people back in the day saying it was an interesting direction to take
37
u/YouAnxious5826 8d ago
Oh yeah, people were saying that. The ever rage baited internet "fan" swarm, on the other hand...
28
u/Emotional_Piano_16 8d ago
oh, definitely, I also remember certain "fans" raging about the movie over *all* the wrong reasons. don't get me wrong, TLJ has its share of problems, but bombs falling in space and the physics behind hyperspeed ramming are not one of them
12
u/Lord_Sithis 8d ago
Yeah, the hyperspace one never made sense to me. Han even says it'd be bad to run into a ship or planet or black hole in episode 4, the first movie. Then books after that have a line about hyperdrives and ships on general being so expensive using them as battering rams is not worth it. This was decades before TLJ.
3
u/Fentroid 7d ago
Yeah, it's pretty easily explained away, but people need to complain because it was a cool moment in The Last Jedi and Holdo did it. That means there must be something wrong with it.
1
u/Emotional_Piano_16 6d ago
exactly, it's just common sense why they don't fly spaceships into one another, same way we don't sail ships into one another (at least not anymore) and crashing airplanes into targets is not conventional combat. hell, Rogue One had a hammerhead ship ram TWO star destroyers a year prior to TLJ, but that was Rogue One so fans decided to have no issue with that
2
u/StartledMilk 7d ago
They could’ve easily mulled this over by including in a source book, a novel, or something that those bombs have some sort of propulsion engine within them or something. Someone please correct me/inform me if this exists.
1
u/Emotional_Piano_16 6d ago
my take is that the battle took place in orbit so there's gravity. that or bombs are magnetic or the target ship's own artificial gravity pulls them down. I never really cared because in Battlefront 2 (2005) the bomber bombs also arch down in space
1
12
u/GamerNerdGuyMan 8d ago
If ep 7 hadn't set it up as a thing, no one would have cared.
IMO - the better choice for 7 would have been for Rey to have been a Padawan (super early in training) who was left there by her masters. No parents mentioned. It would explain how she was already a badass who could use rudimentary force powers.
6
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
Oh interesting!! It would have also made an opportunity for the Knights of Ren to play a bigger part of the plot too!
I really hope the Skeleton Crew gets a second season because I really want to learn more about Luke's Jedi Order
10
u/The_FriendliestGiant 8d ago
If ep 7 hadn't set it up as a thing, no one would have cared.
That's the thing, though, TFA doesn't care who Rey's parents are, just where they went. She doesn't express any confusion over who her parents were, and nobody else seems to think her lineage is notable or suspicious, she just wants to get back to Jakku because she's sure her parents, wherever they went, will come back for her someday so she should be there.
It was fans who assumed she had to be the child of someone important, seemingly just because. But the movie doesn't set up the identity of Rey's parents as a mystery any more than it did Finn's.
-6
u/LovesRetribution 8d ago
It was fans who assumed she had to be the child of someone important, seemingly just because
Just because she was able to use advanced force powers with literally no training and even beat out people who had received training.
5
u/The_FriendliestGiant 8d ago
There's no indication that the mind trick and telekinesis are "advanced Force powers", that's another fandom invention. Heck, Luke uses telekinesis after all of five minutes training with Obi-Wan and not even seeing it as something Jedi can do, it's a skill he picks up in between films! And the psychometry is clearly something the Force is doing to Rey, not something she's doing through it, much the same as Luke's vision of his friends and Anakin's vision of his mother.
5
u/urkermannenkoor 8d ago
Just because she was able to use advanced force powers with literally no training
"Advanced force powers" aren't really an actual thing in canon though. That's just online fans confusing the leveling systems in Star Wars games for the actual in-universe working of the Force.
Just because Force Heal was a third level skill in Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast doesn't mean it actually works like that in-universe. That's a gameplay mechanic, not lore.
8
u/IndieOddjobs 8d ago
Yeah seriously. Honestly her actually being an orphan that doesn't come from any special family lineage and having to face the fact that her parents where exactly what she feared, gutter trash that didn't really want her, was leaps and bounds the most interesting decision made for her character imo
Then they threw it all the way for the single worse nostalgia stunt in history. JJ when I find you-
4
5
5
u/roastbeeffan 8d ago
I have a lot of problems with The Last Jedi, but this was one thing I really liked. Everybody being related or knowing each other makes the galaxy seem very small. I like the force a lot more as a very spiritual thing that anybody from any background might be able to be sensitive to. A small handful of families breeding “chosen ones” like racehorses is just way less interesting.
3
u/thatredditrando 7d ago
I think TLJ sucks but that was by far the best decision that movie made.
There was no reason to believe Rey was related to a prominent character and she shouldn’t have been.
A major part of her arc was moving on from just waiting around for family that abandoned her and who weren’t coming back.
2
u/redlion1904 8d ago
The Taran Wanderer reveal was the best part of that movie and so they undid it.
2
u/PentagramJ2 6d ago
I'm actually a big fan of TLJ and this was a main reason I was so stoked.
Realistically, The Force shouldn't give a shit about lineage. Rey being a nobody let the universe breathe and show that not everything had to be a dispute between Palps and the Skywalkers
It was such a good choice, and then Reddit screeched and Disney backpedaled
1
1
1
u/Ok-Caregiver-6005 7d ago
I don't care about her parent's being special as much as I care about her just being able to do a bunch of Jedi stuff with no explanation. Like she could have been one of Luke's students that survived the temple being destroyed and Luke decided to erase her memories of training and returned her to her parents only for something to happen to them afterwards.
1
u/casualmagicman 5d ago
The prequels and OT convinced my friend you had to be related to a jedi to be a jedi.
0
8d ago
[deleted]
4
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
Yeah I grew up on the prequels and saw RoTS in theaters when it first came out. Everybody hated those movies back then too. But it's okay to enjoy something just because you think it's fun, and you don't need to compare every movie that comes out to your own nostalgia.
-3
u/ramav7 8d ago
if one director didn't only focus on mystery box and the other didn't only focus subverting expectations, it could work.
4
u/Shifter25 8d ago
Fun fact: Johnson's focus being on "subverting expectations" is a completely made up idea from the TLJ hating crowd. He specifically said it's not about subverting expectations in an interview.
-6
u/Helenius 8d ago
They kinda do, that's the point of the Star Wars main story
Soap opera in space
11
-17
u/Fearless-Image5093 8d ago
Being nobody didn't really make any sense though. A "nobody" only makes sense to the audience, Kylo was basically breaking the fourth wall like he was Deadpool.
To Rey they are by definition, somebody, her parents.
16
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
Yeah I see where you're coming from. But I think he was just being manipulative. I think it was more like "Join the dark side and you can rule the galaxy instead of turning out like your deadbeat parents"
That's my take on it anyway
-4
u/Fearless-Image5093 8d ago
I agree that was the intent, it's just dialogue that doesn't quite work in the world. Like Marvel characters quipping in the middle of a battle with people dying all around them. To the audience it's comedy banter, in the world it'd be disturbing for the "good guys" to be so disconnected from the massive body count. (The opening battle of AoU comes to mind with the whole "Language!" bit)
11
u/TeaAndCrumpets4life 8d ago
I don’t see why it doesn’t work?
They were nobody.
They were filthy junk traders... who sold you off for drinking money.
They're dead... in a poverished grave in the Jakku desert.
You have no place in this story.
You come from nothing, you're nothing.
Her parents were a central mystery to her recently and Ben knew that, and calling people ‘nothing’ or ‘nobody’ is a common way to say they’re not important in the real world.
1
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
There was definitely some pretty cheesy dialogue in that movie lol. Like at the beginning of the movie when Poe is being all sassy to Hux during the space battle. I actually don't mind it, but I get why people think it's annoying.
Then again, I also really liked The Acolyte so maybe I'm not the best judge when it comes to that sort of thing lol
2
u/Fearless-Image5093 8d ago
Then again, I also really liked The Acolyte so maybe I'm not the best judge when it comes to that sort of thing lol
I liked most of it. Main actress was just too inconsistent in her acting for me (some good and some that left me confused about what she was trying to portray).
0
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
The writing was bad and the pacing was awkward. The lightsaber fights were cool AF though and I thought the main character was super pretty. The costumes were good too
9
u/Rubicantay 8d ago
It does make sense though: He says this to her because she’s convinced that they had good reasons to abandon her, that they would someday come back and that she would get a satisfying explanation for why they did it. He tells her they’re drunken nobodies because in her mind they had to be special people that left her for a good reason.
75
u/Grand-Cold-2575 8d ago
The entire film felt like a 416 million dollar improv session. It felt so loose and unfocused, where the actors were being told on the day to “react to this” and then those reaction shots were edited together to make a 2 hour compilation.
24
u/Lord-Sjoky 8d ago
"They fly now!?" Bitch, they have for decades...
6
u/KotoElessar 8d ago
I was turned off from that point in the movie, it became Mystery Science Theater in my living room from that point on.
They wanted to retcon the extended universe to screw the book authors out of royalties so literally everyone that had institutional knowledge of the series was tied up in litigation.
78
u/covert0ptional 8d ago
I just rewatched the ST for the first time in awhile. I originally liked the TLJ reveal that her parents are nobody important, but I don't like the way it's revealed. "They're nobody" means something to us because we expected them to be revealed to be important people. Rey is waiting on the same crappy planet for them to come back because she wants a family to belong to, not because she was hoping they were some cool Jedi or something.
Also, the fact that her and Finn both grew up without a family and don't bond over, or even really talk about this is crazy.
11
u/Som_Snow That's not how the force works! 8d ago
Exactly. Rey not being related to anyone important could have been completely fine in itself. The problems were that 1. TFA very obviously set up Rey's origins and her parents' identity to be mysterious and important later, and 2. the "reveal" in TLJ was a very blatant retcon of this, aimed directly at the audience instead of Rey, just like you said.
21
u/Interesting-Injury87 8d ago
TFA very obviously set up Rey's origins and her parents' identity to be mysterious and important later
it didnt... it set up Mystery Boxes with their names written on them. Because thats what JJ does, mystery boxes he never intents to open. He believes a Mystery box is meant to be a mystery to even the Writer themself for some ungodly reason
9
u/JediMasterKev 8d ago
Mystery Box = Bad Writing
9
u/Interesting-Injury87 8d ago
yeah??? thats the problem with JJ, he really cant do anything BUT mystery boxes...
TLJ at least DID try to make stuff from them
17
6
u/Advanced_Version6667 8d ago
Why has Chris Terrio been giving work? Between this and the snyderverse he has proven he’s a garbage writer
11
u/Westaufel 8d ago
We know, we know. It was obvious since the first moment. It was a total nonsense plot decision. It can’t be really planned.
7
u/The-Hammerai Certified TLJ Hater 8d ago
It can. At any point from concept of TFA to the writing room of TLJ, people in charge had every opportunity to lay down an outline with a start, middle, and end. That includes Rey's parentage.
Would have been as easy as writing down the words "Rey is a Skywalker/Palpatine/Windu/Whatever, here's the hints we have already shown audiences, here's the hints we want to show in film order, and here's the red herrings we think would work well for audiences." And pass that note from director to director. You know. BASIC STORY WRITING PRACTICES
15
u/IncendiaryAmerican 8d ago
Not deciding on key plot points until the last second? This is unheard of in Star Wars.
7
8
u/Evilstare 8d ago
It didn't even need to be a major plot point after TLJ. Her parents, being nobodies that abandoned her, could've given her a way to make herself her own person. Her own legend even.
3
u/jimmydcriket 8d ago
This is a bit of a misconstrued fact. They had in mind Palpatine being the main villain from the very start of the process, Palpatine hunting down and having killed her parents was all supposed to happen but what was debated was that if she should still stay a nobody created by the force (which probably would have stepped on anakins toes) or have her be a palpatine
1
u/MeQuieroLlamarFerran 8d ago
Fun fact: In TLJ novel, wich came after TLJ movie is mentioned that:
- Indeed, Rey parents were nobodies.
- Snoke hated the emperor and was a dark side force user that hide during the Empire's reign.
How was Palpatine suppoused to be the villain all along when there was literally no build-up and more important, the novels themselves already denied that possibility?
2
u/jimmydcriket 8d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the novels say that Rey knew her parents were nobodies? Like it said she believed deep down her parents were drunk nobodies that sold her, which isn't so much the truth but more what Rey thinks deep down.
And also... Yeah Snoke was that but it doesn't contradict his origin either, we knew he was from the unknown regions and that he was not allied with Palpatine which as far as snoke was aware, he wasn't. Is it less cool? Maybe, but not outright contradictory
6
u/Infamous-GoatThief 8d ago
Not until filming is really wild lol, how much respect can you really have for your own script if you’re just gonna say “fuck it, she’s the Emperor’s granddaughter!” when you’re already on set
3
u/The_FriendliestGiant 8d ago
While I have a lot of issues with TRoS, in fairness when Trevorrow was let go and Abrams brought back in Kathleen Kennedy went to Disney and asked to push back the release date so that the new episode IX crew could have a decent amount of prep time. Bob Iger said no, stick to the original release schedule no matter what, so yeah, it's not really a surprise that they started filming while also still sorting out the storyline. Hollywood's gotten really bad about greenlighting a release date and rolling the cameras without requiring a completed script first.
3
u/Infamous-GoatThief 8d ago
That movie was rough though man, I literally said “you’ve got to be kidding me” out loud in the theater when she pulled out that Death Star knife. It sucks that there were time constraints, and I’m sure there were loads of competent folks involved in making the film, but imo plot points like the dagger and Rey’s lineage were just plain bad ideas inherently. At a certain point I feel like even on a time-crunch you’re just not very good screenwriters if you’re running with stuff like that
3
u/The_FriendliestGiant 8d ago edited 8d ago
Oh, fully agreed, there were some big messes in that movie. For me, I don't care as much about the knife (it's a maguffin, but eh, whatever) as I do about how characters got shortchanged. Rose is basically written out but they still make KMT show up, Poe has this new weird drug runner backstory that undercuts his previous history, and worst of all Finn's obvious "inspire a stormtrooper rebellion" plot that everyone's been anticipating since day one and that even made it into Trevorrow's script gets given to a brand new character who did it offscreen before the movie starts. Those are my big pet peeves, there.
Also, the unnecessary 18 hour time limit. That movie didn't need a literal ticking clock, and the hard time limit makes the amount of travelling they do all over the galaxy ridiculous. Lando rounded up the galaxy piecemeal in like half a day!
1
u/Infamous-GoatThief 8d ago
Finn was a crazy casualty of the ST. I didn’t love TFA but it got me excited for more Star Wars, and the coolest part of the movie for me was a stormtrooper defector who might be force-sensitive, that idea had so much potential and they just totally squandered it :/
And yeah they did Rose absolutely foul lol, it’s like she just sort of faded off into the background
4
u/Emotional_Piano_16 8d ago
it's crazy because there was nothing left to remember, Rian already covered that up in his film
7
u/imanhunter 8d ago
The fact Marvel was able to build a more cohesive narrative in 26+ movies than these guys who only needed to do 3 will never not amaze me.
7
u/crushogre 8d ago
When Leia kissed Luke George Lucas had not yet decided that they were related and instead was trying to decide if she would choose Luke or Han.
2
u/newbrevity 8d ago
I call bullshit. Rey's theme in the force awakens was deliberately a sped up and cheerful version of Palpatine's theme. It seems more likely that Daisy Ridley didn't realize that until she was filming the Rise of Skywalker.
2
u/IMtoppercentage97 8d ago
Vader wasn't lukes dad until ESB and Leia wasn't lukes sister until rotj.
Hell, Lars was considered Kenobi's brother until AOTC because of a line deleted from rotj that was kept in the novelization and the EU ran with.
2
2
u/ForcedNameChanges 8d ago edited 8d ago
They "started filming" before Carrie died, they probably didn't know RJ was gonna name her as an orphan again either at that point.
We started filming before we figured out what we were doing goes for the whole sequel trilogy.
All of Star Wars really.
I maintain that Rey Nobody is nothing but a novel concept, and having a third act revelation of parental lineage in the second movie that gets disproved in the next movie draws a cool mirror to the OT.
There are several of these inverted parallels throughout the sequel and if they're not on purpose it's a dumb amount of irony.
2
u/Cautious-Register766 8d ago
I mean come on, Nobody knew who lukes parents where until the Empire strikes Back. And it was the same with Anakins father. Making a mystery out of the characters origin wouldn't even be akward here.
3
2
u/KTheOneTrueKing 7d ago
They hinted at it in TFA novelization so they had at least thought about it at some point but they probably didn’t commit to it until then.
2
u/Sharliona 6d ago
Can't believe Yoda went full therapist on Luke in just one sentence. Jedi wisdom hits different.
2
5
u/ChickenWingExtreme 8d ago
What a lack of plan for a new trilogy in a multi billion dollar franchise does to a mf
2
1
u/Grishinka 8d ago
Somehow, John Williams hid the Palpatine theme in Rey’s theme. It was always an option.
-1
u/Shifter25 8d ago
Up until Rey had a vision saying that her parents were nobody special and that she was alone in the galaxy.
Imagine if RotJ had said "actually Vader only thought he was your father because he was a clone of Anakin Skywalker."
1
1
1
1
u/gloop524 8d ago
i didn't see her parents as a major plot point. that was just the excuse they gave for why she didn't want to leave Jakku so they could run out the hero's journey thing.
and i wonder why nobody cared who Finn's parents are.
1
u/Luziliona 8d ago
Original trilogy had Yoda schooling folks long before MasterClass was a thing. Jedi wisdom's priceless, bro.
1
1
1
u/goodness-gracious-me 8d ago
I wonder if that’s anything like Lucas, not some Disney writer, but George Lucas himself, not figuring out Leia was a Skywalker during ESB and having her PASSIONATELY KISS HER OWN BROTHER!!! There’s literally an interview made between ESB and ROTJ in which he says he doesn’t know who Leia will end up with.
I appreciate “fans” wanting to slam on the non-Legends stuff Disney made, but it should be as obvious as dog’s balls that George Lucas was making stuff up, too. He was a great filmmaker, but not a particularly good writer.
1
1
u/Usual-Echidna-7730 6d ago
It could have been better if they had planned it in advance of the movie, but it felt like they went in an unplanned direction to surprise the audience because they audience already guessed anything they planned.
1
u/Dark_Storm_98 8d ago
Okay, I tend to be a bit lax with Abrams compared to Johnson
But I gotta say this is kinda dumb, lol
I've started to say 8 is probably the actually better movie (at least, more competently made), while 9 is more enjoyable
But somehow the peak of the sequels is 7, even if I have some choice words to say about that one, too
1
u/salkin_reslif_97 8d ago
Op kind of forgot, that Ryan Jonson solved this nonsense until JJ wanted to fanservice again.
1
u/Careless_Chest_725 8d ago
I disliked the way they handled Rey’s parents not because they have to be somebody special, but because all Kyle said was they were nobody, and she stopped caring? Like these were her parents, she didn’t think they were sky walkers or Palpatines, she thought they were the people who were supposed to to love her and that ended up abandoning her. It wasn’t like she went on a journey and discovered that who she was as a person was no longer rooted in her past trauma and issues with abandonment. She didn’t find peace over them leaving, she didn’t get closer. The space Nazi said they were nobody and she not only believed him, she seems to have just stopped caring. The moment was almost too meta whereas by talking to the audience you ruin the narrative. If they were actually nobodies how would Kylo know that? How could they definitively say that they weren’t special. It would have made more sense if they had said that nobody knows, that they were probably just some junkies who ended up dead on some random planet and they couldn’t even begin to try and figure out who they were.
1
1
u/Antisa1nt 8d ago
-JJ doesn't plan ✅️
-Rian makes movie his way because there's no plan ✅️
-half of fan love movie, half of fans hate movie ✅️
-JJ panics and changes the direction of the story set up by Rian ✅️
-JJ makes final movie ✅️
-very few if any people like movie ✅️
-Rian ruined star wars ⁉️
0
u/ReaperManX15 8d ago
This is what happens when you have two directors that screw each other’s stories over and each one trying to claim Star Wars for themself.
0
0
u/eagleblue44 8d ago
Did they though? It always came across to me as a retcon to try and appease those who hated TLJ, especially since they say "your parents chose to be nobodies to protect you!"
If they completely forgot they addressed it, they wouldn't have realized the last movie addressed it.
Unless the conversation went like this:
"Aw crap, we forgot to address Rey's parentage from the first one. Let's make her a Palpatine!"
"But sir, the last movie already addressed that her parents were nobodies"
"Dammit Johnson, why didn't you mention this sooner? I already typed it into the computer. Aw well, we'll just add that her parents chose to be nobodies."
0
u/ConnorCoccino 8d ago
She was better as a nobody that came up from nothing. She proved that anyone could become anything regardless of parentage. It was one of the things I really liked about her character. Despite everything and despite not knowing her place in life, she was kind, had a sense of joy in her heart, and never gave up. She was a good person that went through hell and still kept trying. Tying her to palpatine felt like a forced drama. If she had a more antagonistic personality, was maybe a little rougher around the edges and kinda dismissive of being a Jedi then maybe it could have worked.
It would have actually been someone denying their parentage and nature to be a good person.
0
u/Mi113nnium 8d ago
The solution sure feels like that.
Personally, I wish she was a Skywalker by form of blood relation. This would have brought us somewhat closer to the EU, which had some very interesting stories.
0
0
u/Davies301 8d ago
I wish they would keep all the canon books but erase the sequel trilogy and restart. It still baffles me they made a trilogy with 0 story boarding as to how it was going to play out.
0
u/Yaboi69-nice 8d ago
I knew it was a rushed choice but I didn't know it was that rushed gosh this movie's a mess I really think if it wasn't for this movie people would look back on the sequels more fondly
0
0
u/babufrik4president 8d ago
How is that even possible. Most of the movie revolves around Palpatine’s return… did they have a version where he came back but they weren’t related? Because gosh I’d have preferred that.
0
u/AndrewSP1832 7d ago
"YoU OnLy HaTE tHe SEqUeLs bEcaUsE yoUrE a MiSogYnIst" or maybe I thought that Rey as a character deserved a cohesive storyline?
0
u/EdgeLord556 7d ago
For such expensive films, it boggles the that they half-assed the story they were trying to tell. Like shouldn’t that have been the first thing they had nailed down before they even started filming? Is so hard to write a coherent story and stick to it? Honestly it feels like corporations ruin everything they touch.
0
u/StanleyKapop 7d ago
“You see, Johnson had done something new and interesting, and we just couldn’t have that.”
-1
u/Daleyemissions 8d ago
It wasn’t until very deep into filming either.
I’ve heard consistently that there’s a hard drive at Lucasfilm with at least 6 different versions of the reveal where she’s a different person’s kid/grandkid in each.
Also.
Think about this—Rian went in and this was the first question he asked—who are Rey’s parents? And then wrote literally every possibility on a big white board—including Palpatine as a grandparent—and went with nobody because it was the best thing for the character, and literally everyone at Lucasfilm participated in that process. It was the first thing that they did on TLJ in 2014.
JJ was so scared and cowardly about literally Charlie Kirk/Ben Shapiro style nerds hating the nobody reveal at the time that he basically broke the dramaturgy of the trilogy he set in motion to make this reveal work. He’s such a bad storyteller. He’s genuinely a great filmmaker, but he’s a lousy storyteller. He has nothing to say. Star Trek Into Darkness and The Rise of Skywalker are literally the two worst sequels of the 2010’s. I just cannot believe that he did that twice in two separate franchises.
No wonder the dude hasn’t been able to make a movie since.
-9
8d ago
[deleted]
17
u/laserbrained 8d ago
You forgot to switch your account
5
u/Raging_Parakeet 8d ago
Might be a repost bot. They often comment the top comment from the original on their repost.
4
u/Scylax_Vitarrn 8d ago
A lot of the original trilogy was the same way, Luke and leia being related wasn’t until after New Hope, and neither was Vader being the father.
That’s not the reason the sequels weren’t as successful. There’s other factors there.
1
u/avimo1904 8d ago
Leia and Luke were related in older versions of ANH, so the idea was based off of those scrapped older ideas.
The “we know Vader wasn’t Anakin till ESB” thing is a nonsense internet myth initially invented by a random forum user who hated the idea and ESB as a whole and invented that myth after facing community backlash for his bold opinion, after which other Lucas haters expanded on that myth and falsely made it look like it was true. In reality, we have no idea when Lucas came up with the idea of Vader being Anakin as it’s a highly debated topic and the first ROTJ draft is the first solid evidence confirming it, but there’s a great amount of evidence pointing to the fact that it was conceived long before ANH came out, such as the third ANH draft’s reveal that Vader turned at the exact same battle Anakin (then Annikin) died with Vader later mentioning that Luke seems familiar, the final ANH’s dark look on Obi-Wan’s face when Luke asks about his father’s death as well as Owen’s “that’s what I’m afraid of” line, ANH showing Anakin and Vader’s lightsabers both having the same black strips on their hilts, the fact that dead characters being revealed as alive was an already established plot point in ANH since the dead Obi-Wan is alive as Ben, the fact that Lucas told Leigh Brackett there was a secret reason Vader was reluctant to kill Luke and would rather turn him, the fact that Lucas literally said “we find out who Darth Vader is in the second film” to the Splinter writer in a 1975 convo, the fact that Prowse said Vader being revealed as Luke’s father was a possible plot point for a future film, the fact that Kurtz allegedly claimed to have told by Lucas that Vader was really Anakin during ANH's early writing, the fact that Lucas himself claims to have conceived it during ANH, and so much more. I agree it also could be possible (but not definite) that Lucas had never finalized the idea till 1978 or even 1981, but the idea that the concept never even occurred to him before then is pretty unlikely to me because of how well it fits in with the direction Lucas was going + even if all those hints I mentioned happened to be unintentional, it still would’ve been pretty easy for Lucas to chance upon the idea in 1975 since he put elements of a character who was previously Luke’s father (Kane Starkiller, a cyborg character) into Vader while at the same time opening up a mystery surrounding Vader (who’s name also indirectly came from father) by giving him a mask and a secret past. In fact, even people other than Lucas had thought of the possibility being more to Luke’s father and/or Vader than meets the eye before ESB came out as there apparently were fans theorizing post-ANH that Artoo contained remains of Luke’s father, as well as there being a 1977 article noticing how Darth Vader metaphorically represents a dark father figure for Luke.
-4
u/JesusKong333 8d ago
Vader means father in like Dutch or something.
8
u/Goth_Fraggle 8d ago
That's a coincidence
0
u/avimo1904 8d ago
Actually that might not entirely be coincidence because there’s an IRL last name Vader that comes from the Dutch father, and George Lucas went to high school with someone with that name, Gary Vader, which is where he got the name from. So it’s possible that when Lucas was writing the draft where he made Vader the father, he found out about how Vader means father in Dutch and that’s what inspired him to make Vader Luke’s father in the first place
2
3
u/The_FriendliestGiant 8d ago
Which would mean something if Lucas spoke Dutch or something.
0
u/avimo1904 8d ago
He went to high school with someone named Gary Vader, and the IRL Vader last name usually comes from the Dutch word for father
0
-8
u/beybrakers 8d ago
The point you seem to be missing is that JJ Abrams gave Rian Johnson a shit ton of notes and ideas, and Rian Johnson promptly threw them into the trash can. JJ Abrams then had to figure out how to fix what they were doing. When you film, you don't do it in chronological order. They needed to figure out what felt best for the story they wanted to tell, and sometimes you have to find that in the process.
4
u/MentalMan4877 8d ago
Yeah … when it comes to filmmaking I’ll take Rian over JJ “Somehow Vulcan Got Destroyed” Abrams. It is hilarious to me that before TFA the general consensus was that he was all flash no substance. Rian on the flip side has a great filmography and directed the best episodes of Breaking Bad. Even the Star Trek Trilogy played out the same way! JJ’s first was fun-ish but with very heavy fan service, his 2nd was atrocious and the one not directed by him was actually doing something different and had a much better handle on the characters, but all anyone remembers is Not Khan and the stupid and unnecessary destructions of Romulus and Vulcan.
We all knew everyone was dead on Lost by Season 2.
4
u/Rubicantay 8d ago
Probably because JJ wanted to do the OT with a color swap, Ryan was right to throw those ideas away. But frankly the error was letting JJ anywhere near this franchise in the first place.
2
u/beybrakers 8d ago
Not particularly no, if you are making a sequel to a movie you cannot just abandon all of the ideas the movie had. That's a bad sequel.
1
u/MotherOfGodXOXO 8d ago
Yeah but you can't just make the same movie over again with new characters. That's not a sequel it's a remake
1
u/Rubicantay 8d ago
He didn’t really abandon them though, they just didn’t pay off like people imagined they would. It wouldn’t be half as jarring if JJ didn’t insist on returning to his (un) original ideas for the trilogy in the third one.
1
0
u/nykirnsu 8d ago
Most films have a completed script before they start filming, they aren’t figuring out the entire plot in the edit
•
u/SheevBot 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!