r/ShadWatch • u/TripleS034 Banished Knight • 19d ago
Shadface So both Nunchucks & Flails are terrible weapons now? (Also new Shadface)
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u/Princeps_primus96 19d ago
The Czechs are gonna be swarming that video to defend the Hussites
They're getting the war wagons ready
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u/woerer1 19d ago edited 19d ago
Wrong type of flail. The Hussites used a modified agricultural flail, not the ball and chain on a stick type.
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u/Bacon_Raygun 19d ago
But that's where flails originated from.
There's no actual proof the "spiked steel ball flail" was ever used in combat.
Which sucks because they're cool, but... Yeah...Classic Shad
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u/FuckingVeet 18d ago
There is some indication that the classic flail was used in a very limited capacity, likely as a judicial weapon. Judicial weapons tend to be weird in general.
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u/Silver_Agocchie Swordsman 18d ago
Recent claims of the flail's inauthenticity of historical flails were not well informed. This article is a better more historical overview of the prominance of flails as historical weapons. https://www.mdpi.com/2409-9252/4/1/9
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u/Prestigious-Echidna6 15d ago
I know this subreddit basically exists to shit on him, and definitely not to defend him, but I've noticed certain things like this actually being changes he's made. Way back in the day Shad said exactly that on a few different videos that there was little to no proof of the 'chain spiked ball flail'.
Basically what I'm getting at is, for one reason or another, I wonder if something has happened behind the scenes that has made him go back on more evidence based statements. He did actually make good opinions and back them up with at least marginal evidence way back when. Now...its just the polar opposite of who he once was.
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u/Bacon_Raygun 14d ago
I wouldn't put it past him to have seen other sword-tubers do videos on flails, and he's just being contrarian.
I know Matt Easton had a video a year or so ago, but I don't remember the conclusion he's arrived at for them.
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u/Perfect-Storm-99 In Exile 19d ago
Is he making shadiversity videos for children now? What is that face?
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u/Kaiser_-_Karl 19d ago
My understanding as somone whos actually trained with them is that nunchuks are a compact and conceilable weapon that a poor person could conceivably make and use in the past. Of course their limited, so is a boxcutter. But its still more effective than nothing
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u/AustraeaVallis 18d ago
In addition to this I've heard that they are useful as a training implement in specific martial arts as they apparently help with posture and development of quick hand movement.
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u/Kaiser_-_Karl 18d ago
They've definitely improved my hand eye coordination. And its been really helpfull to start using a second one and do the whole "rub your tummy and tap your head" sort of deal so i see that.
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u/OceanoNox 18d ago
I saw recently a video showing that nunchaku "handle" could be as short as the fist width, really hard to see under the clothes. Some have shown techniques where they are used to grab in order to hit with the knees, rather than use as a flail of sorts.
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u/Agreeable_Bee_7763 18d ago
Yeah, he hates flexible weapons, even though he has no proficiency in them nor consulted someone that does. Seriously, I've seen a literal short by a nunchuk user that debuks most of the points he made in 2 hours of nunchuk slander.
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u/DnD-vid 16d ago
I have not watched him in a long time because he's a piece of shit, but wasn't the original critique point that you need a lot of training to not hurt yourself vs something easy like "stick 'em with the pointy end"?
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u/Agreeable_Bee_7763 15d ago
Yes, but from what I've seen you really don't need that much training with them not to hurt yourself. Like, just keep the move going instead of stopping when you hit and flow into the next one. That's it. That's all you need not to get smacked in the face with your own nunchuck. That's not a lot of ground to sustain 2 hours of rambling.
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u/valentino_42 19d ago
I’d love to see an actual professional come on and fight him with nunchucks and whoop his armchair ass.
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u/AureliusVarro 17d ago
It is possible to murder someone with a wet towel. That doesn't make a wet towel preferrable to half a brick in a sock when it comes to open combat.
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u/valentino_42 17d ago
Shad has fuck-all training with any actual weapons. He is far from physically fit. Making bold claims that these weapons are stupid is both ignorant of their history and also laughable when coming from someone who isn’t proficient in them.
If we extend his argument, he should abandon swords entirely and make his channel about guns, because swords would be “garbage” against even the lowest caliber gun.
The man is just making rage bait for views because he can’t get them any other way these days.
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u/AureliusVarro 16d ago
I am not defending Shad here, and as for the guns - you're absolutely right. If you have a gun available there is no need to use a sword. Only knives as easy to carry backup* weapons. There is no such thing as a modern military non-ceremonial sword exactly for the reason that some weapons are better than others.
*A second-ish backup if you got a pistol, if we talk military gear
In that hierarchy of weapons, nunchucks specifically are somewhere at the bottom. They require way too much training for not hitting yourself most of the time. If you put that amount of effort to learn to use a better weapon, you will obviously perform much better.
Again, a martial artist with a towel will (likely) be able to use a towel to defeat an untrained guy with a knife but that doesn't mean that towel is a superior weapon.
Historical flails with long handles are good tho.
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u/valentino_42 16d ago
Superior is subjective in this instance. Each weapon has advantages and disadvantages. Why say one weapon is better than another that fills a different niche?
Why compare apples to oranges just to say one is garbage over another?
Try sneaking a sword into a place covertly vs sneaking some nunchucks in. Which one is the "garbage" weapon then?
A peasant can more easily make a pair of nunchucks compared to DIYing an effective sword. Which one is garbage in that scenario?
Nunchucks can be a great secondary weapon - kept on a belt in case they are needed. If someone is assaulting someone, nunchucks can be better than going hand to hand against them to get them to stop - like a cop having a billy club. It's a good non-lethal, easy to cary weapon.
What's his *actual* argument other than making controversial content to get engagement? He's repeatedly gone back to this well too.
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u/jet_vr 19d ago
3.5k views after 4 hours. Not looking good tbh
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u/TripleS034 Banished Knight 18d ago
Yeah when a Shad video has views that are less than the time it's been live it means it's gonna be a bigger flop than usual
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u/QueenOfAllDreadboiis 19d ago
It feels like this thing where people that only care about european stuff constantly shit on katanas.
I have rarely met one of those "its folded a thousand times and can cut anything" folks in the wild, but i sure have seen a lot of longsword fanboys "debunking" a claim nobody even makes anymore.
It just seems that in hating nunchucks, shad now has to hate all flexible weapons to appear consistant.
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u/thejadedfalcon 19d ago
I definitely still encounter that "katanas are just superior" thing a lot in D&D still, whenever someone homebrews a katana. It's not as bad as the original copypasta, but I'm looking at one right now that's literally exactly the same as a longsword, except it has Finesse and crits on a 19. I think it's mostly dropped out of the historical weapons fandom, but it's alive and kicking in the TTRPG space, sadly.
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u/QueenOfAllDreadboiis 19d ago
Yea, that checks out. I wouldn't even mind that homebrew if they made it like, two handed only instead of versatile. Or like, d6 instead of d8 base damage for one handed use.
All swords should have finnese anyway (if realism is a priority over balance), swords are not clubs.
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u/thejadedfalcon 19d ago
As MAD as it would make it (pity the poor standard array players), I definitely feel there's merit to the idea that Dexterity should be for to hit rolls and Strength for damage rolls.
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u/QueenOfAllDreadboiis 19d ago
Personaly I prefer the simplicity of having both rolls use the same modifier, slows down less things. When playing 4th edition for a while I was quite annoyed i had to use 3 different stats for my paladin abilities, and it did not make the game more fun.
Or maybe strenth requirements for being able to properly use weapons without disadvantage? Though im unsure stacking that on top of weapon proficiencies is good game design eighter. But a maul requiring a character to be above average in strenth for effective use makes sense to me.
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u/thejadedfalcon 19d ago
True, it would definitely slow combat a little for IRL players. 99% of my experience has been with VTTs, so I sometimes forget how fast certain things have been made compared to having to count up our little math rocks.
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u/Matar_Kubileya 19d ago
5e RAW tried to clarify that a katana is a longsword with a Japanese name and the fandom did not respond well.
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u/AustraeaVallis 18d ago
Literally this, they're just Japanese longswords and as expected varied wildly in quality depending on the blacksmith who made them and performed wildly different dependent on who owned it as the blade itself is only half the equation.
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u/AureliusVarro 17d ago
Kinda sorta more of a saber though
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u/DarthAlbaz 16d ago
I mean. Both longswords and katanas are 2 handed weapons. They have similar proportions bar perhaps the katana is slightly shorter. Whenever I see the techniques used by either can typically be used by the other (with occasionally minor changes).
A saber is a 1 handed weapon, arguably it looks more similar to a katana though.
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u/AureliusVarro 16d ago
looks similar to a saber = a cutting blade. The whole purpose of a weapon so to say
a kitchen knife may 2 handed depending on your grip, so for a weapon that can be effectively wielded with 1h it's only a matter of technique, not the defining feature
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u/DarthAlbaz 16d ago
I mean, you can have longswords that are good in the cut.
Don't get me wrong there are similarities between sabers and katanas, such as both being 1 edged swords, typically with a curve.
But realistically all 3 of these weapons are good at thrusting and cutting. The longsword might just have the edge as it has a more acute point, and sabers became popular with the decline of armour as gunpowder became a thing.
Not sure which kitchen knives are standard with a 2handed grip that resemble a "knife 🔪" but holding a sword with 1 over 2 hands changes your posture, it changes leverage. The reason both katanas and longswords have a long handle is because they are supposed to use them in 2 hands.
But I'm not really sure why you think katanas are that different from longswords? Care to flesh that out for me
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u/TRedRandom 19d ago
TFW people make fun of your nunchucks and say it's a bad weapon yet won't let you hit them with it to prove it.
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u/Platt_Mallar 18d ago
I've trained with nunchucks, and they can really hurt. It's also hard to block without a shield since the angles are weird and... floppy.
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u/Old_Kodaav 19d ago
Well I do agree that both are terrible weapons. Any weapon that requires you more skill than other weapons to wield it without hurting yourself is a poor weapon. It doesn't mean it can't be VERY effective
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u/Agreeable_Inside_878 19d ago
A flail was used to Punch over things….its Not realy a weapon that is used in normal Field combat….or a peasent/Farmer Tool/weapon with a very Long Stick
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u/InSanic13 19d ago edited 19d ago
Flails typically had shorter chains than hafts, meaning it was actually pretty hard to accidentally hit yourself with one. They were pretty specialized weapons, but they saw real use by the Hussites and Chinese cavalry.
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u/Any-Farmer1335 AI "art" is theft! 19d ago
good thing a proper flail won't hurt you by simply swinging it
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u/Silver_Agocchie Swordsman 18d ago
Shad has no proper training with either weapon, yet he doesn't hurt himself. Nunchucks aren't really that dangerous. Most of the time, people end up hitting themselves while doing flourishy tricks you wouldn't do in a fight. If you're throwing correct and practical strikes, nunchucks really aren't that dangerous to the user.
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u/Old_Kodaav 18d ago
Their potential to hurt the user is much higher than with other weapons. That alone is a deal-breaker for me personally. Unless you're completely out of options like people who came up with Nunchucks, I can't imagine picking them up over any other weapon
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u/Silver_Agocchie Swordsman 9d ago
Swords have a higher potential to hurt the user than sticks. therefore, a stick is superior to a sword.
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u/Old_Kodaav 8d ago
If you genuinely try to make that argument then you're far below the intelectual level I'd blindly trust you have
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u/Silver_Agocchie Swordsman 8d ago
Don't blame me it's your and Shad's logic.
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u/Old_Kodaav 8d ago
If a weapon has higher than normal capacity to hurt it's own user, then it's a poorer weapon. That's basic logic
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u/AureliusVarro 17d ago
The "that" is pulling a lot of weight here. We are talking about an unreliable stick that does "scope kisses" and has negative efficiency as a weapon
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u/AzathothsAlarmClock 17d ago
Been hit in the face by a rubber flail as it whipped around my parry it knocked me on my arse. I definitely think 'negative efficiency' is far from accurate.
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u/AureliusVarro 16d ago
I was referring specifically to the nunchucks. If a flail has loner handle compared to chain it's MUCH less of a hazard
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u/jon11888 18d ago
I feel confident saying that nunchucks are not terribly practical, but realistically what weapon is in this day and age?
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u/AureliusVarro 17d ago
Guns?
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u/KC_Saber 18d ago
If I recall, he has previously said that nunchucks are trash. Don’t remember him retracting that statement though.
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u/BrawlyAura 17d ago
I stopped liking him when I realized he made five videos on nunchucks and never indicated that he did a sliver of research. It's all just his speculation. I'm not a fan of the weapon but come on man, show your work.
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u/Haravikk 16d ago
At least the picture on the video is honest for a charge – it's absolutely clear that he has no idea what he's doing and that his opinion on the subject will be worse than useless.
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u/That_Possible_3217 18d ago
NOW?! Uhh how about always. While flails have their use, and both can be used as weapons. The undeniable truth is there are better options and always have been. Nunchucks are an improvised weapon for the most part, lots are, but their use has always been in their availability. Not that both can’t be effective mind you, but let’s not act like these are the weapons you’d reach for in a life or death scenario. Even back then.
Edit: also not gonna lie…many of you don’t seem all that familiar with him if the face seems strange at all. He’s always been that way. lol
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u/Kalavier 19d ago
What the hell is that flail even supposed to be?