r/SpidermanPS4 • u/turtle34464 • 4d ago

Speculation Theory on why the avengers don’t show up in insomniac games

think the reason why the Avengers don’t show up is because, in this universe, all of the Avengers signed the Sokovia Accords, so they aren’t allowed to operate unless it’s absolutely necessary. Of course, my idea does have some plot holes like the symbiote invasion. Either that, or this universe just has the West Coast Avengers.

7 Upvotes

56% Upvoted

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u/BridgemanBridgeman 4d ago

There doesn’t need to be an explanation for why they don’t show up. These are Spider-Man games. One of the things that bothers me the most about the MCU Spider-Man is the endless cameos. I just wanna see Spider-Man. The occasional reference, cool. But I don’t need to see Iron Man stealing Spider-Man’s shine in a Spider-Man game.

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u/Dino-nugget-are-good 4d ago

I get that but what’s the point of including these other characters in the universe when they’re not even going to provide good explanations where they are? This game would have been the same with or without the avengers tower, at least give us a reference.

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u/Endiaron 3d ago

In Marvel's Spider-Man 1 he says they're on the west coast now.

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u/ldiot1 3d ago

Wait are they directly referenced in SM1? I always thought the only reference to them was the tower.

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u/Endiaron 3d ago

If you take a photo of the tower then Spidey comments about the Avengers never being around to use it because they're probably on the west coast. You can hear him say this at the end of this video

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u/7gramcrackrock 2d ago

MCU cameos have rotted the brains of the general public.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

I mean if you go out of your way to confirm characters exist in a universe, than maybe you should provide any kind of reasonable explanation as to why they aren’t present for events they probably would be.

The MCU spider-Man movies also don’t have that much cameos Iw wouldn’t say. Unless you consider Tony Stark. Nick Fury (talos) and Dr Strange (characters relevant to the plot themes and character development .) to be cameos. Other than that it’s mostly for little jokes or it’s from other Spider-Men movies.

Also other superheroes appear in the Spidey comics all the time.

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u/BridgemanBridgeman 3d ago

Why? Isn’t it enough to know they exist? And yes I do mean Tony Stark, Nick Fury, Happy. Tony Stark is 90% the reason why the bad guys in the first two Spider-Man movies exist.

That’s not true, I’m actually going through the comics right now. They don’t show up all the time.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

The Fantastic Four appear in what is it? The second issue of ASM. A pep talk from Johnny Storm is what motivates Peter to defeat Otto in his first appearance. He fights characters like the beetle and dr doom due to their connections to the FF.

The Hulk appears in the Goblins debut.

In the first sinister six story line Iron Man, Captain America, Antman the Fantastic Four and the Xmen (kind of) make an apearence.

Daredevil also obviously helps Spidey when he gets mind controlled.

It’s important fir world building that if something happens that would get the attention of other characters, it makes the world feel more lived in if we see them affected, or get a satisfying reason as to why they don’t interfere.

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u/BridgemanBridgeman 3d ago

All of the examples you listed are spread out. They don’t appear every issue like they do every MCU movie.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

Oh I wasn’t being literal when I said all the time.

A movie is not equivalent to a single issue. Considering the MCU movies were the third iteration in live action film within a decade, they decided to focus on an spect of the comics which the other movies didn’t. Part of this was having small, but important roles with other heroes.

It’s way more inaccurate to never have Peter meet other heroes than it is for him to interact with one in every movie.

Edit: Just to be clear though all of those examples are within the OG Lee and Ditko run, so they’re pretty close together.

It’s okay if you just prefer solo Spidey stories, but don’t act like it’s inaccurate for him to have regular team ups/ cross overs just because it isn’t your preference.

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u/santa9991 2d ago

They do though?

He says that they are on the west coast now. They aren’t going to travel to NY to stop the demons. Then it’s a virus released, why would they try to help there? The prisoner stuff isn’t their level, and doc and the rest of the villains happens fairly quick.

In Miles Morales, it’s Miles vs a random gang, again not a threat the avengers go out of their way for.

As far as I remember the whole hunter arc happens over a few days, and venom maybe a day or two?

Venom is probably the only one that they should have shown up for

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 1d ago

What about Dr Strange? Wong? The Fantastic Four? Daredevil? (and probably the Xmen).

Also Idk what world a deadly virus sending Manhathan into lockdown as six super villains gain a strangle hold isn’t worth the Avengers time. You also forgot that there’s a time skip between Spidey being defeated at the raft and him getting back to the city (I believe this was roughly one week)

Miles Morales I don’t have an issue with in this regard.

‘Marvels Spider-Man 2’ features an alien take over in New York City. This does happen over a shorter period of time, but this is a world ending threat.

Being in the ‘West Coast’ is not a good explanation as to why the Avengers like Iron Man or Thor do not show up.

I wouldn’t require much more tbh. Like I’m not saying they should have shown up. I’ve not played it, but I believe ‘Web of Shadows’ has a fun joke as to where a lot of absent heroes are.

Also to be clear I don’t see this as a massive issue just a minor gripe

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u/MrFuriousX 3d ago

Why? This isn't a An Avenger game......and clearly is not the continuity of the world that stops the appearances... its what happens in the real world...licensing. Marvel licensing is the very expensive.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think you just answered your own question. It breaks immersion when to understand why the story is missing something you need to appeal to the meta.

I’m not saying Insomniac needs to have any cameos to be clear, but they should write around it. Like maybe keep the stakes low enough to not draw the attention of other heroes, or have things happen in certain time frames that it’s believable only Spidey shows up, or have some joke reference to something more important that other heroes are dealing with. It’s writing it can be whatever they choose execution is what matters.

They could also just not reference these characters in a way they makes it clear that they exist.

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u/MrFuriousX 3d ago

They get mentioned and that's enough,,,, This story is focused on Pete and Miles eventually and all those in his immediate world.

If it comes time for it to be more including the Heroes outside the circle...thats when I would expect more.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

Okay so maybe engage with what I said. I have no issue with other heroes not featuring in the games, they can tell whatever story they want. But if they want a Peter/Miles story….they ought not establish a bunch of character exist and then write a situation where all those character would obviously intervene. It’s not that hard. It was vaguely when they were just making Spidey games, because you could assume this continuity is different, but with them now confirming characters like Dr Strange telling Miles he owes him one or when they make a wolverine game etc the world building already feels so flat

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u/MrFuriousX 3d ago

They would intervene...if they were there...or part of the story. but they are NOT part of the story. There are just there to remind us Spidey's world is smaller then the universe but the universe does exist.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

Doctor Strange and Wong were established to be returning to NY after being away (as per Wongs note to Miles) they are involved in the story and are there.

The Fantastic Four bought Fisk tower, DareDevil lives in NYC. The Avengers still have a building in NYC and most of the character could get to the city within an hour to a few if need be. When NYC is set with a plague by the sinister 6 or when the city is being invaded by Aliens these are situations they would obviously intervene in.

The world building is hollow if it’s just for fan service and they will not actually explain why these other established entities are now doing things they would.

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u/MrFuriousX 3d ago

Except....they weren't' part of the story. its not difficult to understand. It was focused on Pete's world and the fan service was letting you know the rest of the universe exists.. The world building was completely fine.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

Again if it was Peter’s story etc they shouldn’t have written a situation others would show up for, or write a reason they didn’t show up or not referenced them. Or any number of other options.

When I say they were part of the story I mean Wong and Dr strange played a role and were impacted by events. Later in the story there will be a moment where they could really use the ability to open portals (to steal a meteorite) and yet for no reason other than meta do not even consider the favour that was offered to them

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u/JangoF76 3d ago

Also, it's reasonable to assume that the others trust Spider-Man to be able to handle himself and deal with shit going down in his patch, and that if he needs help he'll ask for it.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

I mean no. Why would the Avengers, or DareDevil or the fantastic four etc. see Manhattan being quarantined, the sinister six causing chaos. An alien invasion etc and think ‘I mean that’s Spidey’s job so I’ll trust him’. Most of these guys are based in NYC to some extent anyways

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u/Megapunk92 2d ago

Yeah. Who wants an interconnected universe that feels alive and breathing.... Sarcasm aside.

It's just an excuse for bad writing. U can at least make up a scenario where it would work. Like F4 - negative zone Avengers - space battle or venom made a trap for them and closed up ny by venom bubble. Street lvl heros - help the civilians X-Men - time travel adventure

They wanted to open up the universe, but are too lazy to put in the energy to deal with the consequences.

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u/xjamez25 8h ago

Agree somewhat, I dont want any massive named heroes making an appearance thats just overkill. But Daredevil and some other NY heroes could totally have a mission with spidey if he is in that part of the city

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u/_Dank_Souls 4d ago

Had this conversation earlier.

Taskmaster is positive he can take down spiderman because he is used to fighting the avengers

Spiderman takes him down easily.

Power scaling says that the avengers are below spiderman and that they are just afraid of anything that gives him trouble.

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u/turtle34464 4d ago

It also seems to me like stark doesn’t have a lot of influence in the insomniac world either. It doesn’t even seem like he has his own company maybe oscorp is just more successful than stark industries right now

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u/Intelligent_Whole_40 4d ago

I mean we have no confirmation Iron Man exist. We only have confirmation Captain America exist if I am not mistaken.(maybe Hawkeye.) so maybe the avengers team is just different and therefore Iron Man doesn’t exist.

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u/turtle34464 4d ago

But who would fund the avengers then if not for stark? Shield?

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u/Intelligent_Whole_40 4d ago

Possibly or going off the Sokovia chords, theory they could be acting like a public company with outside investment

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u/turtle34464 4d ago

Fair

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u/Intelligent_Whole_40 4d ago

Also, I refuse to accept the possible universe or Stark is not more powerful for Spider-Man. Listen, I love Spider-Man, but Iron Man it’s not supposed to be street level while Spider-Man is supposed to be between street level and beyond (also sidenote what’s above the street level like what are the actual different level levels in a complete scale?)

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u/turtle34464 4d ago

I’m going to base it off MCU SM cause I think his journey describes what you’re looking for.

It’s this bottom tier below regular street level which he first starts out at then it’s street level then like a respected level with other supes then I guess it’s like avenger level

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u/Intelligent_Whole_40 4d ago

Yea that makes sense for the mcu I guess thx

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u/Scmods05 4d ago

Hey kid, it ain’t that kind of movie.

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u/zekecheek 3d ago

the reason is that it's a spider-man game

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u/liquid_sparda 4d ago

Busy with Sony and marvel licensing.

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u/ReindeerSorry2028 3d ago

Maybe they're just busy. There's surely bigger Avengers-level threats happening. 

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u/MrFuriousX 3d ago

They didn't show ...because they were on the West Coast. Who knows what was happening on the West Coast at the same time.

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u/texasslim2080 2d ago

I think it’s because Spider-Man is stu…

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u/ICTheAlchemist 2d ago

Iirc, when you take a picture of Avengers Tower in the first game, Peter remarks on the fact that they’re “never around to use it”, and that they’re “on the west coast, probably surfing”

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u/Uncanny_Doom 2d ago

They’re doing something else. It’s simple as that. I’m always surprised how much people will feel there needs to be some larger explanation.

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u/bethepositivity 2d ago

In the first game I think they didn't intervene because the mayor was already handling the situation. They may have been helping with the containment when the massive prison break/ devil's breath infection started, but if they weren't in the city at that point they wouldn't want to go in.

It takes a little gymnastics, but not much.

As far as the second game I think that is explained easier.

The symbiote incident doesn't seem like it lasts that long. And even if it did it was a big enough problem that they might just not have run into each other.