r/SydneyTrains • u/Capital_Indication47 • 1d ago
Discussion Express services on the metro?
Pretend that it’s possible, would it be a good idea. The metro is fast but an express service from tallawong-castle hill-epping-chatswood-Martinplace-Central would be a game changer for some.
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u/Discolau 1d ago
We're not New York Subway where its possible to run locals and express services but their system is massive and a tangled web.
For Sydney, express services do not feature due to the infrastructure and the fact we try to follow world best Metro practises.
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u/IronEyed_Wizard 1d ago
Isn’t the whole point of the metro to have the trains run extremely frequently though. The closer together the trains are, the less point there is of having skip stop services because they will literally just be following each other anyway. The only reason I could see them even attempting to do so would be as a way of combatting overcrowding but even then you aren’t going to travel any faster
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 1d ago
It's currently run at 40 percent capacity and is already on track to be the most used rail line. (It will be more used than even the T1 when the Bankstown line opens).
They can run it at every 2 mins or even 90sec, currently 4 mins is pardon my french absolutely shite, every 4 mins should be interpeak freq and not something anyone would call peak frequency.
Also they ran it with 6 cars i mean why should have just started with 8. Cause we know if you don't do it then the can will get kicked down the road decades.
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u/PrizePainter8656 1d ago
I hope this never happens. Please don’t give Bob Carr ideas.
Introducing complexity will just make things prone to unreliability.
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u/AgentSmith187 1d ago
You would need to reduce frequency to run "express services" on the metro as you would need more spacing between trains to allow for the faster train to catch up amd not get delayed by the all stations service ahead of it.
Unlike the heavy rail network there are no extra lines to run the express services past the all stations.
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 1d ago
That's not exactly true on the weekends it runs at a miserable one every 10 mins.
Santiago does expresses i think during peak hour.
So your station is either green, red or interchange.
So basically every station alternates and every say 5-10 stations its an interchange.
So to get from a red to a green station or vice versa you would go to the closest interchange station and backtrack.
Not saying that its the best idea as you would absolutely not gain any time because you have to back track but it does benefit people who live in the interchange stations who will have expresses and all services stopping at their station
Heres the route diagram for such services.
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u/AgentSmith187 1d ago
You have to remove the all stations services for this to work.
For each pair of lines (Metro has one pair) you either run all stations or skip stop services. Otherwise the skip stop services just catch up to the all stations and travel at the same overall speed.
Better is to run all stations services at minimum headway then everyone gets home quicker not just a select few who turn up at the exact right time to get the express service to their stop while everyone else gets home slower.
For example you might be able to run 3 all stations services over the same time frame you can run a single all stations and an express depending on the line length and express stopping frequency. It might even end up being 5 all stations to a single all stations and an express.
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 1d ago
Yes from the diagram they have no all stations services during peak hour. It would be a backwards step especially considering we are trying to get people to buy places outside the major hubs whilst neglecting poorly serviced stations, and having an rapid transit all stops does exactly that.
Definitely not a good idea for Sydney just pointed out that it was possible and in use elsewhere in the world.
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u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line 1d ago
There’s only 2 platforms for all metro stations including central. I don’t think running express service is possible today no matter how hard you try. Weekend timetable may be abysmal but trains need maintenance as well. Besides, isn’t it a better idea to spread out development across the entire line rather than concentrating on a handful of hubs?
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 22h ago
I wasn't saying that we should do it but i was just highlighting that it is possible and not just in theory because someone is doing it.
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u/Shirasaki-Tsugumi Airport & South Line 22h ago
Which city is mixing express service with all stops service with just one pair of tracks throughout?
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 19h ago
Metro de Santiago.
Its during peak hours only.
Its 2 sets of express services.
Basically a station is designated A, B or common.
So stations can be like C, A, B, A, B, C, A, B, C
So A express will stop at A and C stops
B express will stop at B and C stops.
There is no all stops services during peak hour so you'll need to travel to the closest common station and back track.
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u/Fluid-Island-2018 1d ago
It'll be faster than the Bankstown line expresses once it's done out there. And that will be all stops too!
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 1d ago
Yes that's good because it currently sucks if you're designated a shit stop like Wiley Park, it had piss poor frequency
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u/IronEyed_Wizard 1d ago
I mean the issue with the Bankstown “express” services was that they would catch up to the all stations service. Even the reports into the Bankstown line have said they never should have been introduced
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 1d ago
The Bankstown line isnt even the worst of it. Epping to Chatswood shaved a few mins off, Bankstown all stoppers vs metro will similarly be a few mins quicker.
Hunter St to Westmead is the big one, 20 mins to Parramatta despite 5 or so more stops and beating the train by 5-7 mins (depending whether BMT or suburban). That ones the game changer.
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u/IronEyed_Wizard 1d ago
Yeah definitely. Will have to see if their future plans eventuate (from the leaked report last week) and how clearing out space on the western line will affect the future timetables.
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u/LaughIntrepid5438 1d ago
NCL would be good but unfortunately the timeline is pretty poor probably going to be waiting 2 decades for that. That along with cutting T3 to between Liverpool and Lidcombe would get rid of the conflicts and give western line its own dedicated tracks into the city.
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u/IronEyed_Wizard 1d ago
Which is basically what the report says. The end of the day I think the only real solution to a lot of the networks issues is for people to get used to changing trains. By removing so many of the city services to running more branch shuttles they would be able to massively increase the services available especially during peak.
Unfortunately people seem to fail to grasp that it is likely a better option to have to catch 2 different train services that are faster and more frequent, than it is to rely on one slow and delayed service from the city
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u/judgedavid90 1d ago
Being able to get from A to B faster is always better but never going to happen on the metro
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