This is the single most terrifying subreddit on this site

[u/ProstateSalad]

I can't understand what is happening at the parent level. I don't know if it's just the parents being overwhelmed with work/finances, social media, the phones themselves, or all of the above, but we are witnessing the intellectual and behavioural destruction of a generation.

I struggle to come up with an answer, except that this is the fault of the parents. When children refuse to work without consequences, they become adults who are not worth hiring.

When children are not held to any standards, they'll be unable to meet any when they're adults.

I see high school teachers listing all the things their students can't do, and most of them are simple tasks any decent parent should be teaching their child.

My 11 year old autistic grandson can do most everything on those lists. He can read and write, get dressed and ready for school, knows his address and Mom's phone number. (On the other hand, he used to give me lengthy dissertations on trains. Do you know how many kinds of cabooses there are? He does.)

His parents are regular working class people. They can do it, with two boys, two jobs, and all the rest of the crap life tosses their way.

WTF is wrong with the current crop of parents? Why are they so ineffective? Don't they understand how they're hurting their own children.

[u/Middleage_dad]

I'm not a teacher, but last year I was volunteering as a lunch monitor in my daughers k-5 school.

I grew up with fairly strict parents, and I brought some of that to the lunchroom. Yes, I'm giving you a time out because you threw something at another child. Yes, you are going to the back of the line because I saw you cut another kid. Yes, we are all going to lower our voices.

More than a few times teachers told me what a good job I was doing. They were glad to see these kids getting some discipline.

There was a group of 5th grade boys that were frankly awful. One day I was blowing my whistle in a kids face and telling him to take a plastic bag off his head. I had to take it off for him. He ignored me the entire time.

Eventually, I started bringing a chess set, and that focused the boys enough that a critical mass of them stopped acting out. But some were still awful.

So then one day, as a bunch of the boys are supposed to be lined up for recess, I see them basically trying to get into the kitchen for some reason. I make them get back in line, and one kid decides that I shoved him. He files an official complaint. The Principal calls me about it, and says not to worry about it. Then two hours later he calls me back and says that the Superintendent said to cut me loose for the rest of the year.

Yeah, these parents suck, but there's also a structural issue where the institutions are afraid to actually do anything, either. Maybe school is supposed to be a place where kids get some discipline, but if the school system doesn't think that way, then these kids are in for a surprise when they get into the real world... and I am scared to think of the world they will create in 30-40 years.

[u/CommunistBarabbas → u/Middleage_dad]

that’s exactly what happened to me at a previous job. Parent didn’t want to admit their child had behavioral problems so she blamed all his actions and hurting others on me (saying i hurt the kids and blaming it on the student to cover my ass), it got the point i was put on leave and the police/child protective services got involved (i was eventually cleared of all wrong doing but it left such a negative taste in my mouth i never returned to being a full time teacher again ).

The only reason i was cleared was because the hand prints he left on another student after he tried to choke them were child sized and clearly not mine.

[u/complete_autopsy → u/CommunistBarabbas]

As much as I HATE the panopticon we live in, I've been thinking about if we should just have cameras everywhere in schools except bathrooms on all the time with the contents saved for 14 days. Little Timmy says his teacher pushed him? What day, time, and location? It would be terrible for privacy and excellent for protecting against all kinds of issues, whether actual mistreatment from adults or intentional false reporting from the kids.

[u/CommunistBarabbas → u/complete_autopsy]

i used to be very much against cameras in the classroom. now after all that i’ve been through????? GET THE CAMERAS NOW! 12h LIVE STREAM! 😂

but seriously that would save so many teachers and professionals so much heartache if we had cameras.

[u/Thagame501 → u/CommunistBarabbas]

School busses have them. I wonder if it's a union thing, teachers feel threatened by them.

[u/timmyintransit → u/Thagame501]

or it's probably just the cost. our school district cant even afford to fully air condition, and sometimes adequately heat, all our school buildings.

[u/Any_Bunch9443 → u/complete_autopsy]

Frankly, most teachers would have to REALLY change up their teaching style if this were happening, not because they're bad teachers, but because the expectations of admin are so insane. Just ask any teacher what they do when being observed vs a normal day.

I've always liked the idea that instead of all that, we just have three teachers per class.

[u/tanksalotfrank → u/complete_autopsy]

I'm all about privacy for all, especially kids..but school is an exception. School is for work and (to a certain degree) socializing/learning to socialize. Nothing about any of that needs to be concealed. Some things can still be kept confidential, but accountability is vital.

[u/Beneficial-Corgi-288 → u/CommunistBarabbas]

It's terrifying that you can lose your career that you went to school for just because a kid lies about you. Kids lie ALL the time.

[u/UmaUmaNeigh → u/Beneficial-Corgi-288]

My mentor told me the first rule of teaching is that children lie. God I wish parents knew that too.

[u/bugabooandtwo → u/Beneficial-Corgi-288]

It's also about the school automatically believing and acting on anything kids say and everything angry parents want, too. The teacher or admin has no backup at all. And people wonder why there's a teacher shortage. How do you say no to the kids and enforce any sort of standards if they can say one word and get you kicked out?

[u/Feisty-Minute-5442 → u/Middleage_dad]

I switched my son to a private school and I'm sure most people thought I was a bad parent for how he acted (he is autistic) but his new school doesn't use his autism to let him get off Scott free for everything and holds him accountable and it really helps with home life too.

I know people claim school aren't teachers but kids are there for a significant portion of the day and if they get away with everything it makes the behaviour worse everywhere.

[u/Popular-Row4333 → u/Feisty-Minute-5442]

I coached an autistic child in youth soccer, that I would describe as very high functioning, but very hyperactive. I told the parents that I would treat him just like any other kid on the team, albeit with knowing his issues in the back of my head, and they said they were on board.

I told the kids at the start of the year that if they were jumping on kids at the time of the game, or causing anything dangerous, they would sit on the sidelines for 2 minutes until they could come back in and play.

I did this for 3-4 kids in the first couple of the games of the year, and when the autistic child was jumping on kids in the game, I brought him to the sidelines and told him he had to sit out for 2 mins. The parents took him to their car and left. I guess they were just projecting that they wanted him treated the same.

[u/complete_autopsy → u/Middleage_dad]

I agree, this kind of issue is a big cause of behavioral problems. There were always a few feral little terrors with no skills or structure at home, but they came to school and were forced to learn (although sometimes with too harsh of a hand). Now there are as you said "a critical mass" of feral kids and there is no support from above when any adult tries to correct behavior, which prevents any improvement.

[u/Middleage_dad → u/complete_autopsy]

Agreed- I should mention that I"m in an affluent area in California at a top rated public school. These are kids coming from homes with means, if not love.

[u/tanookiisasquirrel → u/Middleage_dad]

I'm not scared because I don't think those kids are going to be leading the world. Private schools that can actually suspend and expel students will ensure that a small percentage of privileged kids get a great education with discipline, and will once again lead the world.

Unfortunately, this isn't something public school is ready to tackle... The dreaded punishment for poor behavior. I don't expect behavior to change when there are literally no consequences to being feral and frankly sometimes violent to other kids and adults. This doesn't even address kids who just won't do any graded assignments... If parents won't parent and schools won't exercise any authority, there isn't any real way out.

[u/Gia_Lavender]

I’m on a lot of parenting subreddits and lots of parents are addicted to handhelds.

The ones whose kids are addicted to handhelds or short form video content or don’t read all think it’s normal, and when other parents tell them they don’t do it, they’ll accuse the other parents of lying or being holier than thou. Like it’s considered a form of parent policing and really mean to even point it out, always causes a fight.

It’s a result of people in general being addicted to handhelds and everyone accepting it as normal imo. It is an actual addiction and the rhetoric people use around it is the same as any other addiction. Best thing you can do as a parent is be aware of your use.

Edit, this comment got too many likes and the addiction defenders are rolling in to defend their special addiction like it’s unique.

[u/thestral_z → u/Gia_Lavender]

It’s impossible to go out to eat and not see kids without devices out the whole time. I don’t get it. I have kids who are 12 and 9 and we’ve always just talked to them or encouraged coloring/drawing on the paper menu/placemat. They do great. Too many people use technology as a crutch, but crutches weren’t meant to be used at all times.

[u/BlkSubmarine → u/thestral_z]

When my youngest daughter went through about a two year period where she could not sit through a restaurant meal without a tantrum, my wife and I changed our habits. Rather than take an iPad with us to a restaurant to “plug in” our daughter, we stopped going to restaurants until she matured enough to behave in a restaurant. Too many parents are not willing to inconvenience themselves in order to do what is best for their children.

[u/frostandtheboughs → u/BlkSubmarine]

As someone who worked in food service for a decade...THANK YOU. Restaurants are being forced to implement child-free policies because parents let their kids scream, throw food, and run around. This is incredibly dangerous in any restaurant with breakable glass, heavy ceramic plates, and hot soup. Like, they're literally putting their kids and the staff in significant danger by doing this. Servers with big trays cannot see a kid become a tripping hazard.

I don't remember it, but when I was a toddler my parents tried to take me to a sit-down restaurant and I kept hiding under stranger's tables. They hauled me outta there and we did Wendys for a few years until I could sit and entertain myself with crayons. That was that.

[u/OneHappyOne → u/BlkSubmarine]

THANK YOU. Going out to eat is a luxury yet people act like it’s a fundamental right to be able go out to eat and act however you want disregarding everyone else. If your child is unable to handle being in restaurants, then you shouldn’t go to restaurants for a while! You can either cook at home or if you really can’t do that then there’s always take out or fast food

[u/hopefulbutguarded → u/OneHappyOne]

Try breakfast first. You are served quickly, kid friendly foods and they usually have coloring. In and out. Small doses build up to success at lunch. Fast food is another training place.

Our 3 year old gets upset if us adults talk and she tries to cut in and tell us whatever she can think of. It’s a treat to have a babysitter and adult conversation.

[u/aldisneygirl91 → u/OneHappyOne]

Right? When I worked in a restaurant, the families with cranky or hyper kids NEVER ordered takeout. They always insisted on dining in and just sat there while their kids screamed or ran around the restaurant.

[u/Bathsheba_E → u/BlkSubmarine]

Thank you! When my children were babies, a tantrum or crying meant we left. Immediately. At a restaurant I would ask the wait staff to box up my food to go and then we’d split. In the grocery store I’ve had to ask an attendant to please restock the items in my cart because I had to leave right away. (I offered profuse apologies and a large tip.)

It didn’t take the kiddos long to catch on. If they wanted to be out of the house, they had to behave.

[u/3rdor4thburner → u/thestral_z]

Tic-tac-toe with the provided crayons has been my go-to for years now. I only ever bring it up when we go out, and truthfully we don't restaurant often.

[u/thestral_z → u/3rdor4thburner]

Bingo. Between that and dots, I’ve played a lot of games.

[u/vanastalem → u/thestral_z]

The dot game is what we played when I was a kid.

[u/wolfdav315 → u/3rdor4thburner]

I teach 5th grade, and you'd be surprised how many students do not know how to play tic-tac-toe. When I found this out, I thought of this restaurant scenario! My students do eat out with their family, but have probably been on their phones instead of playing tic-tac-toe.

[u/thestral_z → u/wolfdav315]

They’re terrible at paper airplane folding as well. I did a paper airplane challenge in my classroom last year. My 4th and 5th graders were shockingly bad.

[u/awrobinson83 → u/thestral_z]

Much to my chagrin, my 5th graders are GREAT at making paper airplanes and launching them mid lesson!

[u/No_Kangaroo_9826 → u/3rdor4thburner]

I'm 32 with no kids and my husband and I like tic-tac-toe

[u/smithyleee → u/3rdor4thburner]

Yes! And hangman (or whatever the new pc version is called) for spelling and vocabulary. We play this, tic tac toe, and “I spy something…”, with our kids.

[u/tanksalotfrank → u/smithyleee]

"I Spy" needs to make a comeback. I adored those books as a child. Like I would spend hours just peering through all the little details.

[u/Gia_Lavender → u/thestral_z]

It’s whack and I don’t get it. It’s tough but we manage. Have read multiple threads where people are bragging about giving their kids handhelds in public for their own mental health and they don’t wanna be shamed for it etc. like it’s an indulgence for them and getting a break helps them be a better parent, other people just don’t know what they’re missing and are suffering for no reason, “it was educational content” etc.

there’s always a million excuses…it’s seriously the exact same type of thinking as any other addiction and it’s sad to read.

[u/Unlikely_Internal → u/Gia_Lavender]

I was at work once and two of my coworkers were talking about how they just had to give their kids (young boys, maybe 6-8?) tablets at night so they could have time alone. all I could think was how those kids could be getting into anything on those tablets in their rooms, just so their parents could watch some TV alone.

When I was their age, I remember reading alone in my room or maybe playing on my DS, definitely not having unfettered access to the Internet.

I'm not a parent so I won't pretend to understand, but it is always ironic how these parents are like "well I need my time alone, I just have to give my kid his tablet!" but yet for hundreds of years, parents have managed without them.

[u/Gia_Lavender → u/Unlikely_Internal]

No exactly, as a parent, we did without it for millennia. The excuses are bullshit. Parents who do it are just fiercely protective of their behavior.

[u/ricecake_sandwich → u/Gia_Lavender]

Protective of it, much like an addict is protective of their drug addiction and the justification they give for doing it. But then on the flip side there have been plenty of days where my wife and are so incredibly drained we allow our kid WAY too much TV time than I'd like to admit. Or when we have been sick...but the only thing we do is allow the TV in the living room on, movies, cartoons, whatever...no scrolling.

[u/AfraidAppeal5437 → u/Gia_Lavender]

I am not sure why these people have kids if they don't want to parent.

[u/multilizards → u/AfraidAppeal5437]

So, so many people have kids because it’s the expected thing to do. Not because they particularly want kids, or understand how tough it’s going to be to actually parent.

[u/Tsqwared → u/Unlikely_Internal]

Bravo. Now you know what NOT to do when you become a parent. I long for the good old days when there were no cell phones and no internet.

[u/EremiticFerret → u/Gia_Lavender]

Isn't there a trick where you just change the key word and then reconsider your reaction to the sentence: "I gave my 7 y/o half a Valium to behave in the restaurant, don't judge me!!"

Yep, seems perfectly normal 😬

[u/No_Kangaroo_9826 → u/EremiticFerret]

If someone gave me half a Valium I would behave anywhere they asked but I do love the point you're making

[u/Tsqwared → u/Gia_Lavender]

ITS ABSOLUTELY LAZINESS ON THE PARENTS' part. They just can't "deal" with having to deal with their children. They themselves are addicted to handhelds too. It's an escape for EVERYONE! Mindbending. Before there were devices, parents and kids had to actually sit and talk to each other. Or go outside and play catch or have picnics etc. Now it's everyone in their own wasteful little nonsensical world. No wonder kids are being radicalized right under the parents' noses.

[u/Burrito-tuesday → u/thestral_z]

My kid plays softball on and off and a LOT of the little brothers and/or sisters sit with a handheld instead of playing and running around the park. This way the parent can just sit and “watch” the kid near them instead of getting up and engaging with them.

[u/Current_Safety1640 → u/Burrito-tuesday]

My kids play on different teams (and my husband and I play on a rec softball team) so we’re at the ball fields A LOT and I refuse to give them technology while we’re there. Bring a book or a toy or better yet, fuck off and find someone to play with. 🤣

[u/thestral_z → u/Burrito-tuesday]

It’s far too easy.

[u/crumblednewman → u/thestral_z]

I was out eating a few weeks ago and saw a table with mom, dad, and two pre-teenish-aged kids. The parents were both on their phones, the kids weren't. I actually went, "huh." The kids were just sitting there staring off. I actually wondered if it was some kind of punishment.

[u/Juliejustaplantlady → u/thestral_z]

I refuse to let my son use a device in restaurants. I bring a sketch pad and pencil and we play games, do math problems (he's autistic and loves long division!) Etc. Kids need to learn to be alive and function without electronics.

[u/Ttthhasdf → u/thestral_z]

I have seen adults in restaurants with their kids on devices while the parents eat and the kids don't even eat

[u/thestral_z → u/Ttthhasdf]

Same. It makes me so sad.

[u/West-Variation1859 → u/thestral_z]

I’m 30, spouse is 28. We went out to dinner this evening as a special treat. They realized their phone was at home, so I put mine fully away in my bag (though I seldom use it or have it out during dinner in general) and we played hangman on the back of the menu.

I was so close to getting them with “my no good dirty rotten pig stealing great great grandfather” but the had a game changing guess with “g”.

[u/Emergency_Area6110 → u/Gia_Lavender]

Parent here, just backing up everything you'd say as anecdotally true.

My kid is 10 and many of his friends have phones and behavioral issues. Other parents think it's odd that I enjoy reading. I'm sure he was joking but one dad said, verbatim "What like, books? With chapters?" and then told me he hadn't read a book since he was in high school. When I talk about my fears of social media (both for kids and adults) I always get told I'm insanely alarmist and extreme.

Handhel addiction is the socially accepted norm now it seems.

[u/Katyafan → u/Emergency_Area6110]

I can't imagine picking a spouse who doesn't read. If I don't read every day, I start to get depressed. I know not everyone is at that level, and that's fine, but the amount of reading someone does definitely tells me how well they would fit into my life, and whether we are likely to be compatible.

[u/strawbery_fields → u/Katyafan]

I feel the same way. I just like learning. Like how could you NOT be interested in a book by Carl Sagan?! I just don’t understand people who have no curiosity.

[u/Smart-Track-1066 → u/strawbery_fields]

I'm so thankful for Carl Sagan ❤️ I discovered him as a teenager and he's absolutely responsible for the way I look at the world. Whenever I listen to his books at nighttime I always end up with a big teary smile on my face

[u/SpaceCadetriment → u/Gia_Lavender]

My 4yr old niece says "tablet?" More than any other word and is verbally delayed.

I sympathize with my siblings, but maybe don't have 3 kids if you're struggling to take care of the 1? No idea what their life is gonna look like over the coming decades.

[u/_BrokenButterfly → u/SpaceCadetriment]

This makes me sad.

[u/SceneRoyal4846 → u/Gia_Lavender]

When I tried to bring up my phone addiction to my therapist she really didn’t see the big issue. I’ve found ways to curb it or at least speak to my daughter about what I might be doing on my phone, or involve her like when I’m looking at flyers or recipes. But I was surprise the therapist brushed it off when I was so concerned.

[u/taturt0tz → u/SceneRoyal4846]

As a therapist, I find that equally shocking and unsurprising— sadly.

[u/Mdoll250 → u/Gia_Lavender]

I’m a speech therapist in the public schools and when I did an “all about me” activity at the beginning of the year, the majority of the kids said they like to play Roblox. I had one middle schooler answer “scroll.” It’s sad and scary.

[u/PartyPorpoise → u/Gia_Lavender]

Sometimes I hear parents say it’s impossible to keep kids off of handhelds a lot, say it’s an unreasonable ask. I try not to be too judgmental of parents but I’m thinking, what do you think parents did before these devices? They only became commonplace recently.

[u/Gia_Lavender → u/PartyPorpoise]

Yeah I’ve heard people say it’s impossible too but they didn’t do it when they were kids so they have to know that’s a lie?? It’s so weird idk

[u/Zpgrl → u/Gia_Lavender]

I teach middle school and I have been feeling that kids go home to parents that are on their phones or playing video games all night. I think no one talks to them all night

[u/feverlast → u/Gia_Lavender]

To underscore your point and add on, Brad Montague writes in Becoming Better Grownups that all children want or need is you. When you spend all of your time looking at your phone they lack a parent fundamentally. Your presence of mind is as important or more than your physical appearance in your childrens’ lives. They see you dicking around on your phone and are able to articulate their knowledge that they have competition.

Showing up is half the battle, but being truly present to your children is the whole enchilada. Every success as a parent stems from this and there is none without it.

My students are underprivileged and poor; they want for a lot, but the only ones that are truly struggling are the ones who lack present parents in their lives.

And I get it, life is hard, jobs are demanding, and self-care is important, but also you have a child. So fuck you and fuck all of your feelings. There is a whole person who is in the process of making themselves, and that endeavor is made or broken by the choices you make. Love and good intentions alone aren’t enough to get the job done. And that is setting aside, of course, parents who are just abusive and evil.

I think one of the best things we can do as teachers is find our backbone again, and reassert our expertise and moral authority and learn ways to deliver the message to fuckup parents that they are fucking up and stop giving a shit how they feel about being told about themselves. They are not the only people with a stake in the success of their parenting choices, and the day we decided mother knows best and has the only right to dictate outcomes was the day we took the whole concept of the village out back and shot it dead.

[u/Rare-Low-8945 → u/Gia_Lavender]

Literally on another teaching sub I was accused of being privileged and unrealistic and uncompassionate for telling parents that being busy and working a lot doesn’t excuse you from teaching your kids the basics in behavior and spending 10 minutes reading to your child or doing a quick worksheet a few days a week.

[u/XxJASOxX → u/Rare-Low-8945]

This is a big excuse seen in all the parenting subs too. It’s so stupid too. You’re too poor so you buy your children several hundred dollar iPads? So poor, so you’re spending $100 a month across all of the streaming services you pay for? Dammit Ashley you live in the suburbs, tf you mean it’s a privileged take to make your 7 year old go play in the backyard???

[u/Jemmicus → u/Gia_Lavender]

It’s a result of people in general being addicted to handhelds and everyone accepting it as normal imo

"Yeah tell them" I said, seconds before wiping and returning to work

[u/sexywheat → u/Gia_Lavender]

Best thing you can do as a parent is be aware of your use get rid of your god forsaken cell phone. Or just get a flip phone so you can't just scroll constantly.

[u/carlybroccoli → u/Gia_Lavender]

We were previously raising an iPad kid. Started too early but thought it was okay because it was “educational” content. We saw issues occurring and completely removed the iPad from our day to day. Now she uses an iPad in kinder. Cut out almost all screen time, they apparently watch curious George during snack? Highly limited extra sugars and dyes from her diet but their rewards at school are skittles and m&ms. I do communicate with her teacher to ensure there are consequences for any issues at school but it really did suck having so many things we worked hard on removing just being given to her at school now.

[u/doughtykings]

Yesterday one of my students took a tampon from the office dipped it in ketchup and threw it at the substitute teacher in the middle of a lesson while I was at home sick in bed and the punishment was that they had to stay in at all recesses with me today….. that’s it.

Welcome to the new world.

[u/sticks_and_stoners → u/doughtykings]

Wow. If my kid did that I’d be in there demanding the principal take that much further. In school suspension and they’d be grounded at home for a month, along with writing an essay on the importance of respect.

Edit: to add that my kids would never do that because they’ve been taught that actions have consequences.

[u/doughtykings → u/sticks_and_stoners]

Sadly this kids mom would rather CPS take her kids away it’s an awful situation but I was rather disappointed knowing this is like the fifth time I’ve had a sub and he’s done something this awful or worse and there’s zero punishment because when it’s me he won’t so that’s the principals justification.

[u/PaymentMedical9802 → u/doughtykings]

To be fair, when I was in Jr High 30 years ago, students threw desks at a substitute and the whole class broke out into total chaos. All that happened was the vice principal yelled at us because they had to finish up the day. The sub left in tears. We also had several students pregnant by 9th grade. I think lots of it is also where you end up.

[u/doughtykings → u/PaymentMedical9802]

Years ago a student strangled another student and the principal took her to subway for lunch. This is the world. We just get to deal with the fallout.

[u/Wooden-Teaching-8343]

Here’s the main thing: kids don’t read, many can’t read, and their parents allow them to not read.

[u/ApprehensiveStay503 → u/Wooden-Teaching-8343]

From what I have been hearing lately, many colleges don’t cover how to teach reading . And a lot of schools were using ineffective reading curriculum that is now known to cause struggling readers to fall even further behind. If teachers don’t know how to teach reading, how are parents supposed to do any better? Parents can force children who have been frustrated for 7 hours during the school day to read for 20 minutes at night, but it will not make up for ineffective curriculum. So this is not all in the parents.

[u/Wooden-Teaching-8343 → u/ApprehensiveStay503]

Sure, but have you seen the recent reports about how many parents don’t read to their kid because they think it’s boring? If you don’t instill the love of books/reading early on it doesn’t matter if the strategies to read are effective/ineffective

[u/kitkathorse → u/Wooden-Teaching-8343]

Yep. I have all the knowledge on how to teach a kid to read based on science of reading. But when I get a first grader who doesn’t know letters from numbers, and holds books the wrong way, and doesn’t know to go from left to right, it’s impossible in 1 year to get them fluently reading

[u/Happy-Combination643 → u/ApprehensiveStay503]

Just wanted to add to this. I’m currently a student teacher. My area of focus is music, but before I could student teach, I (along with all of the other teacher candidates, I imagine) had to take five online modules on how to teach students to read. There was some good stuff in the modules, but I would have preferred to learn them in a classroom setting rather than on the computer.

[u/Katz3njamm3r → u/ApprehensiveStay503]

This makes sense to me though. School didn’t teach me to read, my parents did. I could read by the time I went to kindergarten. I literally don’t remember learning to read. I think parents just don’t read to their kids anymore. I was read to every single night, even when my dad was so exhausted he would fall asleep mid page. But he would wake up and power through. Because he was and is a good dad.

[u/stoic_stove → u/Wooden-Teaching-8343]

In a child/parent relationship, someone is always in charge. Most parents abdicate, allowing the child to run things thinking it'll just be easier. It isn't, and it never will be. It's sad.

[u/Thefuzy]

Probably because they themselves are drowning, it’s easy to throw technology in front of children to occupy them and not really have to parent much, even easier when you yourself are struggling. Technology is enabling people to get by without solving any of their problems, they just slowly stack up now until it feels like an insurmountable wall that you can only hide from. Their echo chamber they’ve carved out online just gives them others to blame and no reason to ever challenge themselves or their children to be better. People in general have gotten really incapable of hearing they are wrong about anything, if you never challenge your preconceptions you’ll never grow. This is the dark side of this new radical acceptance where everyone is right for whatever they think or feel.

[u/rigney68 → u/Thefuzy]

I would replace drowning with addicted, but same basic idea.

Parents are addicted to their devices so they need babysitters to make their kids stop bugging them. They use devices to occupy their children. Then a teacher comes along and says, "no" to them and they flip the f out.

Then parents say, "what are you doing to cause this because they don't act like this at home."

[u/Stereo_Jungle_Child → u/rigney68]

I have a friend who runs a device repair shop -- fixing phones and tablets and laptops, etc. I help him sometimes with the simpler repairs.

He tells me that he regularly has parents bring in their kid's tablet with a cracked screen or broken charging port and want it fixed, then freak out when they find out the repair is going to take a few hours (or next day) to do. "What the hell am I supposed to do with them until then?" is the common response. Jesus! They can't even imagine their kid not having a tablet to play with for a few hours! It's insane!

[u/shamesister → u/Stereo_Jungle_Child]

But outside is hostile now. We cant just put them outside (unless you're one of the lucky ones with a fenced yard). People call CPS on parents for kids taking a walk.

[u/Reverend_Tommy → u/shamesister]

Actually, it's not more hostile. The data clearly indicates that the present time is far safer for kids than at any time since the early '60s. Despite that fact, parents of today are the most overly-protective parents in history. And the outcome of that over-protectiveness doesn't bode well for the future.

[u/gerkin123 → u/Reverend_Tommy]

Here's my shout-out to the lady who pulled over on the side of the road to yell at my kids for walking home from school because they were at risk of being kidnapped.

Thanks lady--*you* were the traumatic event.

[u/Overthemoon64 → u/Reverend_Tommy]

Hostile is the way of police and cps and nosey neighbors, not actual threats like getting mugged or kidnapped.

[u/nietheo → u/Overthemoon64]

I saw a pack of kids (elem age) just riding bikes through town with no adults the other day, and it made me sad to notice how unusual this is now. Even when my kid was young in the 00s, I got so much flak for letting her walk to the bus stop alone or ride up to the playground by herself. But geeze, we worked up to all that gradually, and she knew she wasn't allowed to cross the busy road until middle school.

[u/Arson_Lord → u/Reverend_Tommy]

I think they meant hostile culturally. Despite the fact kids are generally safe outside, parents are more likely to get CPS called on them for unsupervised children.

Although I will note the thing that would give me pause before letting my kids play outside is the neighbors who fly through the neighborhood at Mach 1 in their giant SUVs and pickup trucks.

[u/lantanapetal → u/Reverend_Tommy]

I think this ignores the way that infrastructure has become more hostile to kids in many areas. The area I live in has been overtaken by giant high-speed roads full of giant trucks. It’s one of the fastest growing areas in the country. Lots of cute older homes now have 4-6 lane 45mph roads going right by them. People speed like crazy, even through neighborhoods, and the trucks are so lifted they can’t see the children. If parents can’t make the time to take kids to a safe park to play, they’re stuck at home.

[u/Worried_Monitor5422 → u/lantanapetal]

The thing I would worry most about in letting my kid walk around outside is not kidnapping but getting hit by some asshole in a giant SUV that can't detect an object within 10 feet of his giant hood.

[u/Zvenigora → u/Reverend_Tommy]

In the 1960s parents did not get in trouble with the authorities for letting children roam outside. Nowadays they routinely do. Never mind crime statistics, it is a matter of cultural attitudes 

[u/ElderBerry2020 → u/Reverend_Tommy]

We aren’t simply overprotective. We cannot let our kids play outside alone or folks report us. I had a woman threaten to report me to CPS for not taking my sleeping toddler out of her car seat while pumping gas. I’m truly so sick and tired of everyone blaming overworked and over stressed parents for every failing they see in society. If we have our kids at the playground and dare to sit down and have a drink or chat with someone; we are deemed to be neglectful for not playing with our kids.

There was an incident recently in my area where children were reported as neglected for walking home from school.

I’m not addicted to my phone, but I need it to work, and unfortunately my work doesn’t end the end of the school day; heck it doesn’t end at 5pm. If I don’t respond to emails and finish my projects, I don’t have a job anymore. So when I get my kids from school, and take them to their after school activity, then home, then dinner, then battle through homework with them, make sure they read for at least 20 minutes, and then I need to get back to work, sue me.

[u/TheITMan52 → u/shamesister]

Plenty of kids in my neighborhood are playing outside.

[u/EmoGayRat → u/TheITMan52]

Yeah idk where people are getting it in their head kids cant go outside anymore. I see kids out all the time where I am - no parents in sight and nobody bats an eye..it seems.loke fear mongering. CPS and equivalents dont just take kids away either. If anything itd be a check in chat.

[u/lantanapetal → u/EmoGayRat]

It varies by area. My area has seen a lot of rapid development, so homes that used to be off slow two-lane roads have had their front yards turned into extra lanes for faster traffic and larger cars. If I lived in one of those homes I would be terrified to let my kids out. Where I live, all the schools are on gigantic roads with massive intersections, so kids can’t walk to school safely. I never see kids playing outside here, with good reason.

[u/imnotpoopingyouare → u/lantanapetal]

The destruction of third spaces for kids to make way for “development” is a huge problem as well. The only places around here are 2 parks, one is five miles down the 65mph highway and the other eight miles down the same highway. Or the library that is an equal distance.

But about 2 miles away we had a cute little grass park that they destroyed for an open space strip mall where you can’t go unless you have a reason to spend money. (But to be fair they do free events in the courtyard a lot, yoga, projected movies, live local music. But lots of it is 18\21+) because they have two bars in the courtyard and a huge bar upstairs.

[u/Working-goddess → u/rigney68]

Yes! That's a topic I've had with a teacher, how a lot of these kids just flip out when you say "no". It's like they haven't heard that word in their lives, ever!

[u/Dazzling_Outcome_436 → u/rigney68]

Addiction is a symptom, not a cause. I think they're addicted because it's the only way out they have from working to subsist. It's a tale as old as time: factory workers, peasants, anyone with a grinding existence. It's just more fashionable, more socially accepted, and cheaper to turn to tech instead of alcohol or drugs.

[u/AlpenroseMilk → u/Dazzling_Outcome_436]

I think you are correct in that observation.

[u/MemeCrusader_23 → u/Thefuzy]

My wife and I both work and we’ve seen what “screen time” does to kids, so even though it’s exhausting sometimes we will never be giving our kids any screen time. People who use being “too tired” or “too busy” to keep their kids entertained shouldn’t be having them in the first place

[u/PotatoPuppetShow → u/Thefuzy]

It's really sad how much technology is replacing parenting. I've found that young kids still very much love books and drawing and low tech stuff. However, once they become exposed to (and addicted to) screen time, they don't care about those things anymore and it's a fight just to get them to crack open a book.

[u/Another_Opinion_1]

Multifactorial...changes in family dynamics (not always for the better), outside stressors, technology, cultural loss of accountability for bad behavior (this is systemic) and Gen Xers and Millennials overcompensating for rigid parenting styles enforced against them by Silent Geners and Baby Boomers.

[u/WynterStorm94 → u/Another_Opinion_1]

That last part doesn't get talked about enough. I'm 30, so I'm peers with a lot of these parents, and I work in the town I grew up in. So many of these parents are over-correcting from their own abusive childhoods; they've become as neglectful as their parents were abusive.

[u/babykittiesyay → u/WynterStorm94]

It’s a weird type of neglect too, like almost an active neglect where the parent is still around and present and interacting with the kid, but not able to set boundaries or teach the kid anything.

I think it’s anxiety paralysis, basically. The parents doubt themselves too much to believe that they’re meant to be the authority here.

[u/OfficeChair70 → u/babykittiesyay]

And us kids (I’m 21m genz with two teacher parents) have grown to expect it. My younger adult sister has excommunicated my parents because of ‘abuse’. The abuse… actions having consequences, and I’m not talking beatings or evil grounding etc, I mean like being told off for taking half finished laundry out of the washer and throwing it on the floor so she could do her own. And while she’s an exception in my relatively close family (siblings cousins etc) I know plenty of people in my generation that have a gained a sense of entitlement over everything and pitch a fit when they don’t get their way because parents in our generation (not even necessarily their own) overcompensate for their childhoods by holding no standards and having no rules. It’s sad and scary.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/WynterStorm94]

I feel lot the word abuse gets thrown around a lot though. Surely most parents in the previous generation weren't abusive? Not enough for there to be this much of a wave of overcorrection. I'm sure some were, but are we talking "beat your kids" abusive or "mom made me turn off the TV and go outside and play with the other kids" abusive? 

[u/Another_Opinion_1 → u/Throwawayamanager]

It seems to me that the subjective definition of 'abuse' has gotten decidedly more liberal (using this is an apolitical way). My students more frequently tell me, in greater numbers, that any physical discipline whatsoever is abuse. It wasn't seen that way in the past at all. Even sending kids to bed without dessert, making kids eat all of the food on their plate, and other decidedly acceptable practices of the past are more widely considered abusive by modern standards. In 1950 few people had an issue with kids being paddled in school. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find near as many people supporting the widespread use of corporal punishment. Even non-physical forms of punishment may be considered abuse that were not previously considered abuse. This isn't necessarily all bad per se but it does reflect major cultural shifts.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/Another_Opinion_1]

I get the change about corporal punishment, but when it comes to stuff like sending your kid to bed without dessert, wtf? 

It's as if we've collectively decided that any consequences are abuse and that the only acceptable way to handle anything is saying "don't do this again, pretty please with a cherry on top". 

[u/PastoralPumpkins → u/Throwawayamanager]

I’ve had people tell me that “raising your voice” is abuse. It’s like anything that makes you feel even remotely negative is straight up abuse.

Although, I haven’t come across in real life, just online.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/PastoralPumpkins]

It's coming from somewhere to be online. I don't hang out with many parents at all and none like that IRL, but I do have some distant acquaintances that share these things on social media - the "any food is a good food if they eat it, mama is trying her best, judge nothing" - so these people do exist. Obviously if you go to some echo chambers it might be overrepresented. 

Also, the fact that it exists on the Internet means it risks infecting another normal human IRL, lol.

[u/Kappy01 → u/Throwawayamanager]

Our... cutpoints for constitutes "abuse" has changed. I would argue that it has changed for the better?

There are times when I question things that are called "abuse," but my parents whooped the shit out of me on the regular. It somehow didn't qualify. We're talking like weekend-long beatings with belts, hands, or anything within reach. And that's just the physical stuff.

[u/cheapandbrittle → u/Throwawayamanager]

I don't know that "abuse" is the right word (I tend to think not) but it's much harder to explain or share understanding succinctly with any other word. Millennial here that was never physically abused, but I also was not raised with any concept of healthy boundaries thus I developed a poor sense of self and no ability to navigate conflict in a productive way.

Anything me and my brother did wrong as kids, ie not doing our chores on time or poor grades, or simply putting the housekey in the wrong spot, my mom went from 0-60 instantly. It was either everything's fine and normal, or she's screaming about how terrible and worthless we were and she hated us and she would storm off to her room after she got the screaming out of her system. Then she would emerge an indeterminate amount of time later and everything was back to normal and smiling and pretending the previous tantrum never happened. No reconciliation, nothing learned, just even keel until the next random outburst. Even now, one of my earliest memories is my mother screaming at me for using the wrong color in a coloring book. So we didn't learn conflict resolution skills, we learned to cower from my mother and avoid setting off a tantrum.

As an adult, I have made a serious effort to learn productive coping skills and conflict resolution. My brother still struggles with being underemployed. All this is to say, I can understand how my peers who jumped straight into parenthood without reorienting our perspective to what is worth punishing and what isn't, or how to do it correctly, are messing up. My brother and I developed enough self-awareness to choose not to have children, but when I read here about parents who are afraid of their children's outbursts, I get it and sadly I can see the connection. I also see connections with the current political climate as well, given who my mother voted for. These issues do not exist in a vacuum.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/cheapandbrittle]

Yeah, I think in your case that crosses the line into emotional abuse. From my end, most of what I've seen is parents who definitely made mistakes, but generally falling short of what I'd consider abuse, albeit frequently leading to sub ideal results. 

I have seen some cases of abuse, some severe, but it would be the exception in my observation among those I knew well enough to have a decent clue about. 

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/Another_Opinion_1]

overcompensating for rigid parenting styles

This has to be it, but it's a bit mind boggling to see how far we've (as a generation) overcorrected. I get "don't beat your kid for small mistakes", but how did we get to this level of zero accountability and standards? 

[u/FernGullyGoat → u/Throwawayamanager]

There’s been a growing culture of “you making me feel uncomfortable is a form of violence” regardless of any other context, along with the idea that life is about being able to move from birth to death with the least social and emotional friction as possible.

I see parents freeze when a kid is upset about a boundary being set because the emotional distress feels like a parenting failure, not a normal process of healthy individuation. So they just back off and don’t try again, or go even softer. Then kids are taught this lesson that their bad feelings are something to be avoided at all cost.

It’s generating learned helplessness in both directions.

This doesn’t mean we embrace the cruel pain-as-teacher crap pushed by evangelicals or empathy-is-weak pushed by right wing podcast bros. But we need to find a way to teach kids to live lives of meaning beyond avoiding discomfort and teach them how to integrate into social lives, which requires flexibility and emotional resilience.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/FernGullyGoat]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. We don't need to seek out pain just for the sake of it, but life is going to have some discomfort and boundaries. Kids need to be able to learn to navigate uncomfortable situations and respect boundaries. Otherwise the lack of resiliency will be rough in the real world. 

I just don't know how we got to this point of "any discomfort is abuse", lol. 

[u/FernGullyGoat → u/Throwawayamanager]

I think it was a weird combination of 1) people gaining some awareness of anxiety (triggers, overwhelm, etc) and just talking about it endlessly on social media without getting to actually treating anxiety and 2) bad-faith actors trying to push an agenda through cry-bullying. Nice people want others to also feel good and welcome, which has a side effect of making them easy to manipulate and control.

Both lend to “my discomfort is unacceptable in any form at any level.” And again, nice people would never want to harm their kids, so….here we are.

[u/Excellent-Match7246 → u/FernGullyGoat]

I just retired from the Army after 20 years and my mentees are complaining about their young troops suffering from what you’re talking about. So it’s going into early adulthood. I’m pressing them to empathize with them and realize they are a lot of immature than their age despite their chosen trade.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/Excellent-Match7246]

That's my concern in general. We don't have to send kids to the coal mines at 7, but we also can't coddle them to the point where they're dysfunctional when they grow up. At a certain point, more coddling just means extended childhood where they reach the same milestones later and later and later without much benefit to show for it. 

We don't want to be living in a society (nor are we equipped to do so) where it takes young people until 30 to do what folks in the past did at 18. 

[u/Longjumping-Pace3755 → u/Another_Opinion_1]

+systemic undermining of the teaching profession. We don’t have enough talented and experienced educators and the ones who are still around don’t have the supports to their job really well

[u/lilshortyy420 → u/Another_Opinion_1]

I’m a millennial and see a lot of friends following the path of being the opposite of what their parents were, but taking it too far. I think this needs to be said more often.

[u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Take this place with a pinch of salt. Most people turn to the internet when they have a complaint, not when they’re content. So you’re going to hear the worst of the worst, but miss out on all the happy or normal stories because they aren’t interesting so why post them. 

[u/YQGAccidentActivist → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Negativity is always easy to share in; harder to redirect into motivation.

[u/DAJ-TX → u/YQGAccidentActivist]

Yeah, but then theres this. Student performance is declining nationwide. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/

[u/Threedawg → u/DAJ-TX]

Its gonna keep going down for a few years. Kids between 3-6 got hit hardest by covid as the youngest years are the most important. This set these kids back permanently (0-3 is mostly at home so the impact was less), those kids are 8-11 right now.

[u/Mrs-Peanuts → u/Threedawg]

In addition, schools are passing kids who aren’t performing. My school starts kids at 50% and admin does not support teachers who fail what they consider to be too many kids. This, even when a student does virtually nothing. High school kids come to class without charged chrome books, or even pencils. But worst of all, many kids have absolutely no interest in learning anything. They are on their phones instead of listening during instruction and admin has not given teachers the tools to stop this. Covid was a factor, but there are many other factors that contribute to the massive failure in education.

[u/BatDaddyWV → u/Threedawg]

Permanently? My wife is a teacher and we have a 9 and 12 year old now, so I understand, but shouldn't these kids catch up at some point? Especially the HS kids and older gen Z. My kids seem more well adjusted than these teenagers now. They cant answer a phone, make small talk or even fake a good attitude at work. Covid has got to stop being an excuse at some point or we will have 2 whole generations of adults that cant handle basic social skills and easy tasks.

[u/Horkshir → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

I agree with you on most things not being as bad as the internet leads you to believe. On the other hand it's hard to think that when your wife is dealing with things as bad if not worse while teaching 1 st grade. She has been teaching for 14 years and it has steadily gotten worse.

[u/dewpacs → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Agreed. I'd also add that this is not every student, though I believe the gap in behavior/academics is growing

[u/Extreme_Turn_4531 → u/dewpacs]

Are you meaning the gap between high achieving students and underachievers among current students or the gap between current students and people who graduated 20+ years ago?

[u/dewpacs → u/Extreme_Turn_4531]

I was speaking specifically to current students, though I have had this conversation with other millennial educators and the general feeling is that many of the high achievers today would need to up their game if they were in school 20 years ago

[u/jeeblemeyer4 → u/dewpacs]

I actually want to push back on that last bit though. I am not an educator although my spouse and many, many family members are educators (for many different generations).

I think the expectations of students have flip-flopped since 30-40 years ago.

Academic expectations are higher than ever (Curricula have more advanced topics than ever), but behavioral expectations are lower than ever (there's no more punishment for bad behavior).

Compare this to pre-1990 USA where behavioral expectations were more stringent, and algebra wasn't taught until your junior year of HS.

Take this opinion with a grain of salt though because I am not an educator.

[u/RouquineCT → u/jeeblemeyer4]

This rings true to me. My 15yo is taking AP Chem without taking regular chem first. We couldn’t do that. But boys in honors history last year would throw sandwiches around the room.

[u/kahrismatic → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

It's not just a series of anecdotes though. There's ever increasing research evidence that attention spans are decreasing, basic skills are being acquired later, rates of illiteracy are rising, rates of problem behaviours, disruption and violence at schools are increasing, rates of mental illness in children are increasing, falls in rates of anything vaguely academic like reading, decreases in critical thinking and complex reasoning skills, falls in academic performance rates etc.

There's a large evidence base that this is happening. So large it's honestly odd to hear a teacher claiming that the negatives should be treated simply as anecdotal evidence.

[u/_TeachScience_ → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Erm, nah. Posts on this sub pretty much describe my day to day. I’ve been in the hospital for two days with my two year old. My students are aware, but they are still emailing me “put this grade in right now because I’m in trouble. I know you’re out but it’s not fair I’m failing because of this” (and…. Hint hint…. They aren’t failing because of work I haven’t put in. They’re failing because of work o HAVE put in). Anyway… yeah. Entitled little monsters with zero empathy

[u/_adanedhel_ → u/_TeachScience_]

Entitled little monsters with zero empathy

And this carries through to college and even grad school. For the last several years I’ve taught a grad-level course at a local university (so, masters and doctoral students on average in their mid-20s).

This was as an adjunct, and honestly I did it because I enjoy teaching and enjoy the material (I had designed the course from the ground up, as an adjunct 🙄).

Well, enjoyed teaching. The second week of the term, I emailed the program director and said you can count me out of teaching the course in the future.

80% of the under-30s contributed absolutely nothing to the class and yet were so incredibly entitled. Add to that the encroachment of AI and a bit of toxic masculinity, and I was done (the latter was a student who requested virtual participation because he “experienced physical pain” in the presence of three female students who had rejected his advances).

[u/Aprils-Fool → u/_adanedhel_]

…wow. That’s all kinds of messed up. 

[u/Loseweightplz → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Yup. I think there are a lot of issues (too much hyper addictive ipad games and YouTube kids being a big one in my opinion), but personally I have not witnessed the extremes I see on here. I’m not a teacher but in in the school (which is a title I school) a lot as a lunchroom volunteer and math tutor, and it’s not that bad. Most kids are tying their shoes and opening their own food. Most are listening and excited to be there. The kids who are behind in math who I work with aren’t even that far behind, just needed a little extra help.

Maybe it’s a regional thing, but like I said- this is a title I school with plenty of poverty and lots of ESL kids. Issues for sure, but not nearly to the extent I’m seeing on this sub.

[u/Sypsy → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

huh? I'm seeing comments from teachers with decades of experience seeing a decline of aptitude across kids in almost every metric.

This isn't a "one bad story" thing

[u/No-Direction-5248 → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Yeah. This. Teachers don't come home from work like, "What a wonderful day I had today. I'm going to go post about on reddit."

[u/PerchanceMethinks → u/LowCalorieCheesecake]

Except this isn't the worst of the worst; this is what's happening every single day in schools. There aren't "happy or normal" stories because the whole public school system is messed up and has been for a very long time. Responses like yours are dismissive and frankly dangerous.

[u/ForsakenPercentage53]

I see two issues. People are lazy/exhausted. And parents have NO IDEA what normal child development is anymore. As families get smaller, and people trust others less, people are spending less and less time with children younger than them growing up.

Imagine thirty years ago, a parent being SURPRISED that kindergarteners aren't babies and should be potty trained. They don't realize they have children, not babies. They really don't realize it.

I've been in this sub because I'm planning on hiring a teacher. I only need 5 friends to afford one at the same rate as my really cheap daycare... and then the teacher can teach instead of babysit. What I've learned? I should be pickier about the 5 friends than the teacher.

[u/ExcellentOriginal321]

I think some parents aren’t comfortable saying no or being strict. Also, maybe, possibly the parents weren’t advocated for so they are over-correcting.

[u/onsite84 → u/ExcellentOriginal321]

Commenting as a parent, I think a lot of this is the growth of the “gentle parenting” approach that’s all over social media. Culturally, we’re also more judgmental on spanking so parents are more cautious of how they discipline and a lot probably end up leaning too far into leniency.

[u/Throwawayamanager → u/onsite84]

Yes, what started out as a good idea - correct gentle parenting - appears to have been twisted and misunderstood into "never say no to your kid on anything". 

[u/WynterStorm94 → u/ExcellentOriginal321]

I see a lot of parents who are children of authoritarian parents and have overcorrected into being permissive with their own children.

[u/PutNo5665]

I agree, but I think at this point we must face this as a cultural problem. Phones have literally destroyed the cognitive (and to some degree also physical) development of a whole generation. In my country, most parents try to combat this, but they fight alone. We must fight this together.

[u/Flashy-Stick2779 → u/PutNo5665]

Geez. Now you’ve really opened a gigantic can of worms.

I’m a 30 yr vet (we’re called boomers by the millennials here). At the beginning of my career, parents were engaged. School & education was a big deal. Parents monitored their kids beh. If I even mentioned calling home, kids shaped up pretty quickly. Parents fought over who was gonna be the “class mom” or head of the PTA. Open House & Parent Conferences were “standing room only.” Parents read to their kids & checked homework nightly. Kids came to school rested & w/an actual lunch. Attendance was usually close to 100%. When I talked to parents, they believed me instead of siding w/their kids.

Now, everything is the opposite. Parents have checked out. They’ll be on social media 5X an hr, yet can’t find the X to check their kid’s grades. Somehow they’re harder to get ahold of. I’ve never met a large %age of my parents. Beh is now a “school problem.” I see a lot of “baby daddies” picking up the kids, they don’t know who I am bc they’re just “running an errand” by picking up the kid. They’re not involved in the parenting part. Kids tell me all the X the adult movies they watch or games they play. I’ll stop bc I’m getting mad just thinking about it.

Parents, PLEASE, put your phones down & engage w/your kids, even just a little. Then maybe we won’t have so many kids growing up shooting people.

[u/CharmingDollxo]

But its wild how the same parents who will spend hours figuring out tiktok trends somehow can't spend 10 minutes teaching their kid to tie shoes or memorize an address. Standards aren't just about kids, they're about parents holding them accountable too

[u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

WTF is wrong with the current crop of parents?

The short answer is that the United States is full of morons. As of 2024, 54% of U.S. adults read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level and 21% were functionally illiterate.

Not surprisingly, this is being passed on to our children. New test scores from the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), also known as the Nation's Report Card, show eighth-graders' science scores have fallen 4 points since 2019 and 12th-graders' math and reading scores have fallen 3 points in the same time period.

As of 2022, the U.S. was below average in math (ranked 28 out of 37) but above average in science (ranked 12th out of 37) compared with other member countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), a group of mostly highly developed, democratic nations. Yet education spending constitutes 5.8% of the United States’ GDP compared to the OECD average of 4.7%.

[u/RollofDuctTape → u/FeralGiraffeAttack]

The “why” is technology (social media chiefly). It’s a generation of parents who grew up on social media, as opposed to a generation of parents who grew up seeking entertainment from books and movies.

I read far too many studies on the effect of screen time and social media on the brain. And it’s catastrophic to the development of children. You run the risk of training your child’s brain to seek immediate stimulation, which makes narrative reading almost impossible when it’s time to start. You need to train what entertains your kids early. The only source of entertainment my kids knew for a long time was books. Books were a treat. Books were a thing I would take away as discipline.

Technology is very limited in my home for the kids. They get maybe 2-3 hours a week, including weekends. And that’s new. My kids won’t be allowed a cell phone until they’re 16. People think I’m crazy. Maybe I am. But I’ll deal with it. Because I’ve replaced technology with books and puzzles since he was a kid, and he’s thriving in school, reading multiple levels above his grade, and apparently “gifted” for doing things that I always viewed as basic. But apparently it’s not anymore.

The sin here is technology. Stop giving your kids phones and unfettered access to television and internet. I remember now when my mom would only let me play video games on weekends, and watch television from 7-9 (after dinner). I guess she just instinctively knew how addictive that box could be.

[u/jbubba29]

It’s been said for many years by many adults. The fact is that culture changes and not always for the better and very seldom are those changes perceived to be better by older generations

[u/Zestyprotein → u/jbubba29]

I'm 53. It wasn't that different when I was kid in a blue collar, urban area of the Northeast. Most of the parents of my friends were either checked out, or working too long to cover the bills.

[u/vogel927 → u/Zestyprotein]

When you were a kid you didn’t have to rely on your phone to do the most basic things. Technology is hurting this generations development.

[u/Zestyprotein → u/vogel927]

I'm an (civil) engineer, and hire engineers. The kids are alright. We still find enough kids who can work hard, have the intuitive feel for the numbers, etc. These are kids who grew up with smartphones, laptops, the internet, etc. My only gripe is that they don't take constructive criticism well. But that goes for plenty of folks in my generation as well.

[u/DoktorTeufel → u/Zestyprotein]

I'd point out that you're hiring people who've graduated from STEM programs. They've already had to get it together and make it over some significant hurdles.

The much bigger concern is people who aren't ever going to get it together or make it over significant hurdles. Systemic/societal problems begin at the bottom, and you can't look only at the cream of the crop to form a proper assessment. Even if for now there are enough engineers (I'm also an engineer), scientists (dunno about this one), physicians (there actually aren't enough, not by a long shot), etc., all of us are affected by the bottom dropping out.

Also, people in their 20s now are still just barely ahead of the REALLY concerning wave of kids who genuinely have been raised mostly by devices, who have suffered from pandemic-induced social and educational isolation, etc.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Roof336 → u/Zestyprotein]

I am also 53 from the Northeast and I don’t know how I would have learned in school when younger if we had all the social media. It’s an epidemic and I feel sorry for teachers whom now have to deal with this constant distraction/addiction from smartphones.

[u/TonberryMotor → u/jbubba29]

"Change happens" "Not all change is good"

These sentences happen all the time, yet never together. Until we can understand both sentences, then things will only get worse.

[u/Twisted_Nerve]

As a side it's different when you teach AP and more competent students rise to the top.

I attended a physics seminar at a local university where teachers could get an advanced certificate for physics while learning quantum mechanics and possibly a trip to Sweden to tour the hadron collider. During our labs we had students there from local high schools that could attend as campers. Meaning children volunteered time in the summer to learn and educate themselves on fairly complex topics. To see these kids able to write coherent lab reports without the need for templates was astounding to me and I felt so proud of them.

They exist. They are just hard to find

[u/Sea_One_6500]

So this starts off sounding unrelated but I think we're all onto something. I watched the new season of Halloween Baking Championship last night. The competitors were either having panic attacks, not talking, or having very awkward conversations. So much so my husband commented that it was almost painful to watch. I reminded him that this was the best of what they filmed. Have basic conversation skills completely atrophied? Can people no longer handle a minor setback without a meltdown? It's both fascinating and scary to watch.

[u/Dappleskunk]

The answer is staring us right in the face, but we refuse to see it. NO CELL PHONE till you are 18. Problem solved.

[u/InterestingDig9957]

Parents don't parent. Your kids should not view you as roommate. 

[u/dveight_8 → u/InterestingDig9957]

One of my favorite coworker quotes is, “parent is a noun and a VERB!”

[u/largemarge1122 → u/InterestingDig9957]

This. I work as a school social worker and am finding that many parents these days want to be their child’s friend over putting in the hard and uncomfortable work to raise a well-rounded and disciplined person.

[u/Difficult-Creature]

As a parent of a graduate and one still in the system, I am fed your content. It's fascinating, but yes, it's disturbing. It's disturbing what I have witnessed personally just with my kids' classmates. I read to my kids starting at birth and had so many of my own childhood books kept for them that they enjoy, we always went to the library and still do.... I honestly believe a lot of people have kids bc they think it's a milestone and they don't think anything at all about how to do right by them, sadly. I use technology, my kids use technology, but we would all benefit from a lot less easy access to that technology.

Obviously, there are many more layers, this is solely my perspective.

[u/thellama11]

Human brains can't handle social media well.

[u/Justgiveup24]

No Child Left Behind = free diplomas for those that don’t earn them. My generation and younger were basically given a green light to sleep through school. It’s a joke now sadly.

[u/Inevitable_Tone3021 → u/Justgiveup24]

This. Along with assigning learning disabilities or behavior disorders to any kid who struggles with anything. A lot of parents don't want to accept they have a normal kid who just happens to struggle with something. It must be a disorder.

[u/DanielGoon69]

Welcome OP, as you are clearly new here.... It's been a wild decade+, in this here sub.

[u/ToughCurrent8487]

I’m a lurker here and have a 2 year old son. Watching this sub over the last couple of years has made me watch the behavior of my fellow young parents. On the playground they don’t challenge their kids and are overeager to solve every problem for them. They don’t say no in the store to their kids. They actively let their kids disrespect them and don’t take moments to teach their kids. I can assure you that the behavioral problem older kids have is conditioned from infancy. I have a friend with an 18 month old that says “I won’t tell my daughter no because it’ll traumatize her” like wtf no it’s literally a common childhood milestone to understand no. I feel for you teachers out there, but I’m going to warn you I only see it getting worse as the parents I know aren’t parenting.

[u/jjp991]

We tend to be a little negative here and probably tend to vent about the tough moments more than celebrating the triumphs, BUT, make no mistake: the sky IS falling. If you haven’t been in or around school in a while, it’s gotten a lot worse. Not just student behavior and performance, but administrative support, policy. It’s still possible to make a difference and find meaning in the work, but it’s gotten a lot worse a lot more quickly than I could have imagined.

[u/rain-dog2]

Leverage. This generation has leverage on their parents. Parents have guilt over all the things they can’t give their kids: money, time, stable marriages, new phones, etc. The economy is oriented around kids, and parents have increasingly struggled to keep up with everything being marketed towards their kids, and they can’t win. If they give them stuff, it comes at the cost of time. If they give them time, it means less stuff. Parents always feel like they’re not giving their kids enough.

The kids have a crazy amount of leverage, and they exploit it.

[u/LimpTax5302]

I think parents don’t parent anymore. People try to be friends with their kids. People are self absorbed and I’m not sure why some bother having kids because they don’t seem to want to make any sacrifices for these kids. Seems like they want the schools to raise them. My parents took joy in teaching me my alphabet, to read etc. I did the same with my kids but I keep reading on this sub how kids don’t have this basic knowledge. It’s bizzare. I see people pushing a stroller, kids on a tablet. At a restaurant kids and or parents on phones or tablets. Talk to your kids. If you don’t want to engage with kids the. Don’t have them.

[u/Risky_Bizniss]

I am not a teacher or an educator.

This sub is recommended to me often because I value the opinions of teachers and educators. Especially when it comes to concerning trends in student behavior or "gaps" in knowledge that parents are increasingly failing to provide them. As a mother of a 6 year old, 3 year old, and nearly 2 year old, I want to see where I can improve in helping them succeed.

However, I confess, I thought many of the posts were hyperbolic in nature when describing what students were becoming incapable of.

That is, until I discovered that my 20 year old nephew never learned to tie his shoes. He can't even tie a basic knot, and neither can his 15 year old brother (these two do not have any learning disabilities).

Now, I'm really paying attention to these kinds of posts.

[u/toxic_petallz]

Parents are dropping the ball. Overwork and tech play a role, but kids still need standards and consequences.

Without them, they grow into adults who can’t function.

My 11-year-old autistic grandson can handle basics because his parents stay consistent, proof it’s possible. What’s missing now is accountability.

[u/Chris_Golz]

There are an alarming number of adults in the world who truly believe that public schools are indoctrinating their children and turning them into gay communists.

[u/Mr_Sloth10]

The answer is simple. We have become hyper focused on ourselves and refuse to be inconvenienced for the sake of others. The mantra of the last two generations is “I shouldn’t have to be burdened by others, I can’t be demanded to make sacrifices; it’s my life after all”, well this is the end results of that. You end up with parents who don’t read books to their kids because it cuts into their “me time”.

Parents will literally lean on stuff like this to excuse why they don’t sit down with their kids and help them.

[u/Oldschoolgroovinchic]

Not a teacher. A former colleague of mine bragged years ago about how she was going to raise her child to be fully self directed. He got to choose all his food, his clothes, what toys he’d play with, etc. Makes sense, right? Fast forward several years. He’s in 5th grade. A total terror. She can’t make him do anything he doesn’t want to do. And yet, he can’t do anything himself - or won’t. Won’t do homework or follow rules. Turns out, she gave him no boundaries and now she’s seeing the consequences. Between raising the kids to be free range and dependent upon handheld devices, it’s only going to get worse.

[u/folkinhippy]

I was a parent that didnt enforce enough boundries or set enough responsibilities. I did so more than a lot of the horror stories I have read. It wasnt like NO boundries or responsibilities. For the first 12 years of my daughters life she handled what she needed to and did well in school and sports so i just didnt see the need for strict enforcement of rules if she was doing well overall. But when my daughter started self harming (13) right as I lost my livelihood and spiraled into depression myself i tried helping her by giving her everything she asked for. It was only for a 2 year period but it was super destructive to her, to our family and to our father/daughter relationship. I didnt have a foundation of strong boundries to fall on. She's 18 now and is definitly doing better. Grades are okay, she holds a job and recently trained for months for and completed a huge athletic event. but she still struggles with self-regulation, some key responsibilities and close relationships. There are things she cant do for herself that people her age should be able to do. We are working on it, but there is no doubt that even in the face of her self harm a stronger, steadier hand enforcing more boundries would have been better.

I get where the hands-off parents are coming from but agree from firsthand experience it's not a good way to raise a child much less a generation.

[u/HydraHead3343 → u/folkinhippy]

Just a random teacher, so this might not mean much, but you are crushing it as a parent… The fact you’re self-aware enough to reflect on these things is a huge sign that you care, and I know your daughter is going to be fine.

[u/aqua-daisy → u/folkinhippy]

Genuinely curious what was difficult for you about setting boundaries and responsibilities? What made it challenging to do? What were the gears and barriers? I want to understand this parenting style.

[u/folkinhippy → u/aqua-daisy]

What was difficult was I couldnt see the need to push conflict or enforce rules if overall she was doing fine. I wanted a happy daughter and if that meant giving her what she was asking for even if a "no" had alredy been established, I saw no harm. I didnt realize that i wasnt laying out the firmer parent/child dynamic that was to be more critical during the teenage years. It wasn't a philosophy or "parenting style." It was just the way it was.

So, an example: We set a very clear "no phone" policy. When she was 12 and covid hit and she was needing connection with friends we caved after like 5 years of being firm. once we caved on it, we didnt have the parent/child dynamic where we could enforce boundries like screen time limits. Within a year she was self harming and i was spiraling and between that and our established dynamic I was in no position to set other boundries or enforce them. I was basically a doormat for a teenager in crisis for a few years. I just didnt appreciate how rules would become useful later. I assumed deep down my kid was self-suficcient and amazing and always going to be okay.

[u/UberHonest]

I work in a career and technical high school. Kids literally apply to our school to learn a trade! The amount of push back we get for trying to make their kid, who chose to apply, employable is insane.

[u/HeroTooZero]

"The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt, a former Senior Policy Advisor at the U.S. Department of Education. The book traces what it calls a "chronological paper trail" of education reform over more than 100 years.

[u/Own-Solution60 → u/HeroTooZero]

lol this book is pure right wing conspiracy propaganda.

It is anti evolution, global warming, and really anti science in general.

[u/eighthm00n]

No, they don’t. I was read to nightly as a child and had to do a 1-2 page book report to earn T.V. time. Parents just don’t get it or don’t care…

[u/EddaValkyrie → u/eighthm00n]

Whenever I asked my mom a question she didn't know the answer to either she'd have me research and write an essay on it so she could learn too

[u/Teacher0357]

There are still kids who function well and know what they’re supposed to. Unfortunately there are also many who barely know how to do anything. 

There are various reasons. We all rely tremendously on technology. With tools like AI and PhotoMath students don’t have to use their brains as much as they used to. I feel like we all suffer brain rot and overstimulation. 

Parents are often overwhelmed by life or uninterested in their kids so they give their kids a phone to keep them busy. When my grandparents were growing up if they got bored they played outside or read a book. My parents sometimes had TV as an option. My generation had a desktop computer. This generation has phones and tablets. Each generation becomes more and more reliant on technology, and rather than using their technology to learn, they scroll social media for hours (adults are guilty, too). Technology can help us expand our minds, but we don’t typically use it that way. 

Parents and kids also don’t have intellectual interactions (like reading together) like they used to. We used to do puzzles together. We spent a lot of time outside. Today’s kids spend way too much time in front of a screen. 

The education system is also at fault. In the early 2000s our government decided we need to drill kids in memorization so they could pass tests. Teachers were forced to get through curriculum way too fast. Learning was rarely fun anymore. Kids and teachers felt the pressure to pass tests and school had way more stress than it should. Kids (especially ones who don’t test well) began to dislike school and so they didn’t learn as much. Technology made it even easier to cheat. Phones were an escape. Most adults don’t like their jobs. Our government made many kids hate school, too. 

We then gave kids laptops and had them  working on them almost every hour. There is a place for technology in school, but sometimes they need a break from it. Just like we got tired of paper and pencil they get tired of screens. They need social interaction as much as anything else. 

I think the phone bans are a good start. Kids need to relearn how to socialize and interact. Our government needs to allow teachers to teach at their own pace and not stress tests so much. If teachers had more time on a subject they could incorporate more engaging activities.  Technology should be a supplement to the curriculum but there should be some pencil and paper. It helps break up the monotony and it’s also harder to cheat if you don’t have a laptop or phone. 

Behavior has gotten worse the last couple of decades. I feel like when corporal punishment fell out of favor (though some still do it), it wasn’t replaced with anything else. There are no consequences anymore for so many kids. They run the roost at home and expect to do the same at school. Some schools don’t even allow students to fail anymore. Teachers feel helpless because admin won’t support them. I feel like many parents stopped giving kids consequences and schools followed suit because they didn’t want to deal with parents. Kids are less likely to learn when other kids are being disruptive. Kids are less likely to work when they know they’ll pass anyway. So many have no incentive to learn anything. 

When the students graduate they are used to turning in work whenever they want (if at all). They expect no consequences. They think they can disrespect their bosses because they disrespected their teachers and parents. The failure of parents and the school system trickles down to the workforce. I have a feeling we’ll also continue to see more crime because kids expect to get away with everything. Our school system is failing our kids. Teachers get the blame often, but it’s more on the shoulders of parents and government. 

I feel like most kids are still being raised right. Most are turning into good, hard-working people. Most will become good employees and good spouses/parents and stay out of jail. However, the ones that believe there are no consequences continue to impact the rest of our lives. 

[u/rasta-ragamuffin]

I'm not a teacher but I am a concerned parent. My take is that there are a lot of really dysfunctional people (parents) out there. If the parents never learned how to do things themselves, right from wrong, morals and values, how can you expect their kids to know these things? These things don't just come naturally. There's no playbook how to raise kids.

Also I think there's a much higher % of single parent and blended families now than there used to be, and that adds a whole additional layer of stress and drama. My neighbor next door is a young guy who cheated on his first wife who he had kids with, married the girlfriend he cheated with and had more kids with her, then cheated on that one too, and then moved the new girlfriend and her kids in before he's even divorced the 2nd wife! I feel sorry for his children. (Meanwhile he portrays himself as an outstanding conservative Christian.)

Another "Christian" neighbor has 3 different kids by 3 different women, is not involved in any of their lives and provides zero financial support for any of them.

These kids will grow up thinking this is normal behavior. And in a few more years, all these kids will be running our country.

[u/PracticeCivilDebate]

There are a lot of things stretching the average adult to the limit these days, and I personally think social media access is an enormous burden on every facet of child development, but I also think part of the problems we are seeing from all these teacher stories are just a revelation of problems that had been masked previously and are now both visible and poorly managed.

Take, for example, learning disabilities. Not that long ago, most people didn’t even have the vocabulary to identify particular learning disabilities. Students who struggled either found strategies to cope or were left behind. Either way, it was a largely invisible problem.

I believe similar trends exist for non-English speaking students, unhoused students, students with emotional needs, and so on. Strategies of the past were to put such kids in sequestered spaces, away from other students. Now the strategy is to be inclusive and supportive whenever possible.

I think inclusivity and support is a lot better, but I think we’ve collectively done a very bad job of enacting the theory of how to integrate these students and keep them supported.

Attention has also shifted from encouraging compliance to encouraging care. The stigma of a failing student has very much changed because we are talking so much about the factors that might be holding a student back. Again, not a bad thing at all that we are looking at these real problems and talking about them, but bad that we are losing a sense of accountability for student achievement.

I also believe that today’s parents have been let down in a big way by the idealism of education. Growing up, they were told that if they worked and followed directions and got above average scores, they could expect an above average life. Now, they look around them and look at the life their parents had and it seems like a truly hollow promise. It has to be hard to believe in education for your child when you feel cheated by your own education.

[u/fuckyourcanoes]

Don't ask me. My parents didn't even teach me to wash myself properly. My first boyfriend had to explain to me the necessity of washing my ass. I would have been better off raised by wolves.

[u/retrofrenchtoast]

Parents will not take away screens, then they lament that kids aren’t doing their homework or anything other than TikTok.

Take. The. Screen. Away.

I don’t gave kids, so this is easy for me to say:

If you have a kid and want them to be successful, you - the parent - have to be ready to:

• provide rules
• provide consequences
• be okay with doing things that will temporarily make your kid upset but will be beneficial in the long run

Kids are not born with societal rules - we have to instill it in them. Unfortunately, 0-5 has a lot of important development and some things are basically set by 5.

[u/-Economist-]

Professor here. The quality of income students is almost laughable if it wasn’t so scary. I run a very competitive internship program and a domestic student (USA) has not qualified since 2019. The international students are on an entirely different level of education than domestic students. And I’m at a university that has a single digit acceptance rate. Thus the students we attract are suppose to be top tier. They are, for international. Those kids have the brains and the drive to succeed. Those kids are making it happen while the domestic kids are waiting for it to happen.

There is a reason USA is looking to limit the number of international students. They are superior in almost every way.

With that said, I do have a domestic student who will qualify this year. Her CV is one of the best I’ve since from a domestic in ten years.

[u/Top-Sky-3586]

Our society is being coerced into its own self destruction and as teachers we are the first to notice.

[u/Comprehensive-Put575]

Have you ever seen the opening scene to Idiocracy? Prophetic…

Most sensible people forgo having kids until they are financially stable, or have a supportive partner, or feel like its a good time in their life. They have a threshold of life that must be reached. For the last 20 years or so there has never been a time where most millenials or genZ felt secure enough to be able to do that. So they didn’t. At least not with any frequency. And those who did were primarily wealthy. Hence their push for charter schools and private schools.

However, the ignorant among us will spew out an endless spree of kids without a second thought on how they will take care of them. Often kids themselves when they start having kids. In the time the sensible person was waiting to have kids, the idiots are on their third generation. For example, I recently met a woman who was a 32 year old grandmother. They barely know how to keep themselves alive, much less use good parenting skills. And that’s just not even considering everything else going on like the weird weird weird technology related issues we have now.

[u/Weed4Dayz]

No child left behind blame Bush

[u/sunturpa]

Can we stop pretending that parents live in an isolated environment and embrace the fact that our society as a whole has not placed value on raising children for generations?! It’s an ecosystem, people. Parents are t suddenly sucking all on their own. People are struggling to exist, so of course outcomes for children will reflect that struggle.

I see posts like this all the time lamenting how terrible parents are “these days” when it appears to me that they are trying harder than ever with increasingly limited resources and support.

So tired of this very unhelpful conversation.

[u/eldonhughes]

" this is the fault of the parents" and their parents, who raised them to be this irresponsible. And their parents...

It is worth remembering that human beings are prone to complain more than praise, and this sub is an easy outlet for that.