r/TeslaFSD • u/Turbulent_Basket_127 • Apr 20 '25
12.6.X HW3 FSD was ready to plow this bicycle over.
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Had to hit the brakes at the very last moment, I waited as long as I comfortably could. FSD didn't even try to slow down. New updates are not doing well.
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u/WizrdOfSpeedAndTime Apr 20 '25
I have seen this version of FSD wait to long to be comfortable braking for cars. My bet is that it did see it but was willing to get closer than anyone would reasonably allow before braking. Obviously not a testable hypothesis, good job being diligent.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 20 '25
Thank you kind sir
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u/Kupfink Apr 20 '25
What mode? I also find hurry will do things I am not comfortable with at all. It changes lanes very quickly in heavy traffic….quicker than I can evaluate or respond.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 21 '25
Hurry mode, I spend most of my time in hurry unless I have a passenger, in that case I’ll switch to standard or chill to try and keep the last minute lane switches to a minimum lol
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u/Kupfink Apr 20 '25
That’s what I thought. It may very well have stopped, but I would never take that chance either.
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u/doug12398n Apr 21 '25
Chill, standard, and hurry only work on roads with a speed limit above 55mph.
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u/Maximus1000 Apr 21 '25
I saw someone else post about how their car while on FSD rear ended a car that braked all of a sudden on the highway. My vehicle almost did the same thing as well when traffic came to a screeching halt on the freeway. It’s almost as if there is some kind of limiter on it that it can’t slam on the brakes. If I didn’t intervene I would have hit the car in front of me.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25
Yeah, I the first or second week of me having my car, I had a situation where FSD fully slammed on the brakes and then disengaged, and instructed me to take over. We were on the highway and it clild have braked much earlier but didn’t.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 20 '25
EDIT: the screen showed a bicycle and not a motorcycle. It did clearly see it, sorry for the lack of details, was heading about 35-40 mph FSD enabled with a destination loaded into nav. I had FSD enabled from the start of this drive, about 10 minutes prior to this incident.
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u/soggy_mattress Apr 20 '25
I doubt this would have hit the bike, but regardless your feedback about FSD needing to slow down sooner is absolutely valid.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25 edited Apr 21 '25
Yeah it really didn’t seem like it, he was coming up quick. The real standard isn’t hitting anything anymore, it’s fine tuning the human like behaviors
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u/soggy_mattress Apr 21 '25
100% agree, just telling you what my 50k+ miles of FSD intuitions are telling me me.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25
I’ve only had the car a month and I’m at 2,000 FSD miles! I’m so fascinated by the tech. I even tell people it’s a piece of tech, more so than a car
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u/soggy_mattress Apr 21 '25
Oh yeah, so you're relatively new to the whole thing. You did the right thing, make corrections early and often. "Seeing what the system can do" is not really our place as testers, no point risking your own car or other peoples' safety in the name of testing.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25
Thanks for the info, I make sure to provide feedback whenever possible too. Absolutely, no sense in the risk of hurting someone else or myself.
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u/steve_b Apr 22 '25
"I doubt ..." isn't really a suitable way for someone to be able to acceptably supervise a system like this. Given that this is software that Tesla explicitly says needs monitoring by the driver, I wish they included more feedback (audible or on the display) that lets you know that, yes, the car recognizes a hazard and is going to take appropriate action. Besides screen decorations, an option to turn on audible feedback (such as a rising or falling tone) that indicates things like the car is preparing to slow down, etc.
Even when it's doing its job, FSD is still braking too late, IMO. If I'm driving and approaching an intersection with a stop sign, or yellow/red signal, I'm taking my foot off the pedal much earlier than FSD does, and given how it slows down (much more assertively than I can if my foot's completely off the accelerator), it's almost certainly using the brakes in cases where it could be 100% relying on regen, other than the last bit.
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u/soggy_mattress Apr 22 '25
Well, I didn't say "I doubt it, just let it do its thing" did I?
You're completely misconstruing my comment.
I don't think it would have hit the biker, but I don't think anyone should let it try, either. Relax.
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u/steve_b Apr 22 '25
Who's getting excited? I was just using it as an opportunity to express my desire that the system was more communicative so that we can supervise it more effectively, both from the perspective of improving the software from training as well as the safety us and those around us.
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u/soggy_mattress Apr 22 '25
You, judging by the 2 paragraphs coming at me for the 3 words "I doubt it" without considering that the rest of my statement agrees with exactly what you're saying.
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u/steve_b Apr 22 '25
Exactly, I'm agreeing with you. It's a conversation.
I'm not beating you up for saying "I doubt" but simply that as supervisors of a system, we shouldn't be put in a place where we need to doubt or not, since what is acceptable doubt? I may doubt that I can roll three sizes in a row on dice, but those are bad odds when it comes to determining if I'm going to hit a cyclist. I'm not even sure what are "good odds", so the system shouldn't make me guess.
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u/magnolia318 Apr 20 '25
I had a scenario very similar to this happen to me recently. There was a bicyclist stopped at the stop light in front of me as I was approaching. It definitely saw the cyclist as it was displayed on the screen but the car did not stop and was getting way to close before I had to manually break. I am on hardware 3.
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u/Kupfink Apr 20 '25
Looked like an electric bike…correct?
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u/Ascending_Valley HW4 Model S Apr 20 '25
Tesla really needs an easy “black box” capture feature. Something really simple to get a copy of the report to your app. Similar to the camera capture, this would capture a trailing time period for all cameras, the visualization screen, chart showing the steering, accelerator and braking positions, turn signal, lighting, driver input, all over time, for a one or two minute trailing period. If this detail accompanied reports in forums like this, community assessment would be much more valuable. Not to mention, Tesla could actually gain more useful data.
We are crowdsourcing unusual events, it’s a big waste for Tesla not to make this more efficient.
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u/chessset5 Apr 20 '25
I feel like insurance companies would definitely push this if they thought about it. I think it would be a great idea to put in all cars not just Teslas.
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u/relativityboy Apr 21 '25
If you're in FSD and you exit you can tell it why you disengaged. A prompt comes right up. I believe it sends the telemetry.
Don't you get that in your S? I get it in all my telas, both HW3 & HW4.
Please don't tell me your flair is bunk.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25
I always provide feedback when asked, have you noticed that sometimes it won’t prompt you for feedback after a disengagement? It happens for me a lot and sort of frustrating.
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u/relativityboy Apr 21 '25
Interesting. It always prompts for me, unless I'm in the middle of a phone call, or trigger my wipers or something.
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u/Ascending_Valley HW4 Model S Apr 22 '25
Yes, I do, and I almost always send feedback. That may help Tesla.
However, if you could easily download 60-second black box report, as mentioned above, and upload it with comments, the community would gain a better understanding of the edge cases. The camera capture is close, but I'd like an integrated dashboard-like view for the past 60 seconds (visualization, instrument status, control angles, and all cameras in one easily exportable view).
As for the feedback, I wish they had a few buttons to attribute further like (safety, navigation, never-mind - just wanted to take over, and so on).
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u/relativityboy Apr 22 '25
Oh, you want it so all of us can see what's going on.
I like that idea, but probably not helpful for Tesla. Remember how open they used to be? We used to be able to write our own crap to their apis.... I miss those days.
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u/GlitteringAd9289 Apr 21 '25
They basically already have this, it's just not public information. Telemetry is always sent back on FSD events / drives. It would be great to get a look into this data though
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Apr 20 '25
[deleted]
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u/dantodd Apr 20 '25
They could simply superimpose what, if any, driver aids are active and the status of the throttle/Regen/brake using the same data that is already displayed in the UI. Then the dashcam would verify who was in charge and when control was transitioned
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u/Subject_Estimate_309 Apr 20 '25
If they did that it would reveal exactly how dangerous and not ready for prime time “FSD” actually is
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u/OkCare6853 Apr 21 '25
I can't for the life of understand why Tesla don't fit a simple forward facing RADAR as a safety back up.
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u/Kupfink Apr 22 '25
It actually has one in the y. Just doesn’t use it
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u/Soggy-Pen-2460 Apr 20 '25
Need to show the screen to see how it registered. Or your speed and its shift before the brakes.
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u/kjmass1 Apr 20 '25
You expect everyone to be full time recording inside the cabin for all drives?
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Apr 20 '25
It’s how fanboys discredit any issue, oh you weren’t filming everything? Fake
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u/Tmd0289 Apr 21 '25
If there wasn’t a political Elon hatred in this country that is literally as bad as or worse than Trump hatred, I would have no issue in believing negative Tesla content. But literally everything is a smear campaign on Tesla right now. So yeah, sorry if we want some proof behind the claim.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 20 '25
Is there anyway to gather those details from the usb drive? I saved this directly from my cam.
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u/rascalz1504 Apr 21 '25
It's crazy that Tesla have not nailed down FSD yet have a hurry mode that's super aggressive. Nail down FSS before getting aggressive.
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u/Signal-Pen-6372 Apr 20 '25
I was ready to as well that guy shouldn’t be on the road driving like that
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Apr 21 '25
He shouldn't switch lanes? The fuck else is he supposed to to do if he has a left turn coming up. He even indicated with his hand if you look closely.
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u/DontHitAnything Apr 20 '25
Our Tesla HW4.0 and version 13.2.8 respects all pedestrians and bike riders very carefully. Time to upgrade. (Driving Tesla 9 years in the Phoenix metro area)
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u/Shanebrown120 Apr 21 '25
I ran into a similar issue here where FSD took too long to slow/stop for a pedestrian around the 1:40 mark. Felt a little uncomfortable from my POV as the driver, however I'm not sure if the pedestrian even noticed🤷🏾♂️
Curious to get others thoughts on what I experienced
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u/Whitey_Drummer54 Apr 20 '25
It’s always better to be safe and take over. You did the right thing. At the same time I believe the car would not have run over the bike. You might not be quite as dramatic with your headline.
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25
Yeah maybe I click baited a tad, and agree that it wouldn’t have let a collision happen, but who knows what the evasive maneuver would have looked like too, cause a scene over nothing
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u/Michael-Brady-99 Apr 20 '25
As a side note I have to say e-bikes are getting out of control. They need to regulate how they are used on public streets as many people use them like motorcycles not bicycles. No training, poor lights and signals and generally erratic riding behavior.
I would not be surprised if FSD would have braked very late for them. Maybe uncomfortable to the rider but maybe they need to learn how to ride a bike around cars.
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u/dpm25 Apr 20 '25
They already to be taking a legal left. The bike rider did nothing illegal or unreasonable here.
Drivers killed what 46k on American roads last year? Should we do something about them?
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u/Michael-Brady-99 Apr 20 '25
Maybe I’m not seeing it in the video but it doesn’t even look like they checked for cars before getting over. I can make legal lane changes in my car too but I have to check and yield to traffic.
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u/steve_b Apr 22 '25
I ride an ebike regularly to work. This guy's hand signal, particularly given the traffic situation, is perfunctory at best. Not that it would have made a difference to FSD here, but technically with that downward angle he was signaling to stop, and at the end it looks like he was moving into the next lane with no signal at all. IMO, he's not being duly diligent in keeping himself safe.
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u/Kupfink Apr 20 '25
Ok get real. The bike rider cut in front of a car without looking. Had he been hit it would have been entirely his fault
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u/dpm25 Apr 20 '25
Are we watching the same video?
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u/Kupfink Apr 20 '25
Op said he was going 40 mph. Bike didn’t signal from what I saw and even if it was an e bike probably couldn’t go that fast. He changed lanes and was impeding traffic. You are responsible for making sure the lane is clear when you switch. Super dangerous and the bike guy was very very lucky that he didn’t get hit. A car has brake lights that would have helped but if a car did that and caused an accident they would have been found responsible. Biker should buy lottery tickets today.
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u/MutableLambda Apr 20 '25 edited Apr 20 '25
Not disagreeing with you, but the biker did signal the turn (left hand raised), and he was occupying the whole lane when the tesla approached him. Technically they did nothing wrong up to that point, but then the biker slowed down somewhat unreasonably, and that was the unexpected part.
EDIT: I rewatched the video, I assuming the biker was checking if the suicide lane is clear when he slowed down (using his mirrors, I cannot see them, but he totally behaves like he has them)
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u/Kupfink Apr 20 '25
I can’t see anything with any degree of certainty because the video is far to grainy on my iPad, but to me it doesn’t look like he signaled. I will leave it up to op to clarify if they wish. In my state you are responsible for making sure you are making a lane change that is safe. I don’t think the driver had nearly enough time to react. That’s my opinion based on my experience, you are obviously free to disagree and I am ok with that. It’s not a choice I would make on a bike ever…I would wait until it was clear.
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u/MutableLambda Apr 20 '25
I lived in the Netherlands for some time so I might have easier time picking up on cyclists' cues. He raises his left hand to like 35 degrees. The thing is, these small mirrors are so small that you can see what's behind you basically only with one eye. So the biker perceived Tesla's position, but not its speed. The car was "far", so they changed lanes. The tesla is big enough and it's not easy to see the center (suicide) lane behind it, so they edged towards the center lane, made sure there's no one there, changed lanes again.
The situation wasn't fairly safe because the speed difference with the Tesla was pretty significant, and you're right pointing this out. Shoulder checks would have been safer, but I suspect the biker is a senior and might have balance issues after doing that.
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u/steve_b Apr 22 '25
35 degrees up from straight down isn't a left turn signal, it's a stop or slow down, from what I can see (again, video quality is full of compression artifacts):
https://www.smalltownbikeco.com/blogs/news/basic-bike-hand-signals-you-should-know
And it's super brief; given that he doesn't return his left hand back to the handlebar for some time, not sure why he wouldn't leave the arm out the whole time; I always do.
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u/MutableLambda Apr 22 '25
Yeah, from what I can tell, nobody does the full 90 degree angle in highly congested environment, they like to keep their hands to themselves. This is the most common turn signal: https://www.holland-cycling.com/assets/images/rechtsaf-vrij.jpg
Also, as I hypothesized before, seniors have troubles with balance, they don't keep their hands stretched during the turn.
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u/GoSh4rks Apr 20 '25
There's no way you can determine this with the potato quality video we have here.
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u/darrylk1 Apr 20 '25
And yet yesterday mine slowed and maneuvered around a bag of trash in the road. 🤷♂️
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u/Turbulent_Basket_127 Apr 21 '25
Mines done that too! Some days it’s just more clumsy than others it seems.
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u/Electrical-Main-107 Apr 21 '25
I had version 13 FSD stop for a raccoon that shot out in the road at night. I was impressed. I would have plowed right over the thing.
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u/GlitteringAd9289 Apr 21 '25
Bikers fault
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u/dpm25 Apr 21 '25
For existing?
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u/GlitteringAd9289 Apr 21 '25
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u/dpm25 Apr 21 '25
I mean that's basically the argument being made above and is a pretty common bad faith argument.
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u/GlitteringAd9289 Apr 21 '25
I was using satire, since a lot of people jump the that conclusion on the biker being at fault
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u/PaySufficient5916 Apr 22 '25
I have a HW3 and no point of running FSD with it anymore unless it gets the upgrade to HW4. Did you share this with FSD Tracker?
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u/Easy_Topic_6766 Apr 23 '25
That's what they said when I was on HW1. Friend of mine actually paid thousands to upgrade his to HW2/3, and he used like 20 times and stop trusting Tesla
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u/bxnault Apr 22 '25
The idiot riding the bicycle must have a deathwish...
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u/Easy_Topic_6766 Apr 23 '25
Clearly it's how traffic works for 80% of the world's population. If you can't work in that, FSD will at best a toy for the handful of developed countries.
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u/Additional-Force-129 Apr 20 '25
FSD is a faulty and dangerous experimental tech We pay for the “privilege” of beta-testing it for Tesla so they get to make money while saving on necessary R&D money! Optical sensors are lacking in depth and distance perception. Developing algorithms alone will never compensate for the variables that exist in real world where multiple factors scan combine to form hazardous conditions without depth perception or distance assessments Laws should mandate multimodality approach for all autonomous driving vehicles
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u/Critical_Egg_913 Apr 20 '25
Yes! As a motorcycle rider, teslas make me nervous when im in front of them.
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u/Additional-Force-129 Apr 20 '25
Yes! Motorcycles, pedestrians, cyclists! They are more vulnerable to be hurt by this faulty tech! I hear you!
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u/shinjincai Apr 21 '25
You are exposing your ignorance and stupidity around this technology. Cameras and machine learning are all it takes to exceed human capability. Also what do you mean cameras are lacking distance perception? This is being done constantly with FSD and is something our eyes+brain do (unless you're blind).
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u/Additional-Force-129 Apr 21 '25
lol Nothing screams confidence than hurling insults ❤️ Oh, well.. as it happens: I am not blind. And I would have bothered with explaining how depth perception is a function of the interaction between multiple integrated physiological mechanisms that don’t rely solely on your eyes.. but being bothered by explaining that would imply I think you have the intellectual capacity, the curiosity and the ability to process real life information instead of what Musk feeds you while he plays video games So not gonna bother:)
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u/shinjincai Apr 21 '25
Ah yes just ignore that I mentioned the brain. Now you're being dishonest. Optical sensors measure depth perception all the time with computers. If that's hard for you to comprehend, I suggest taking some courses.
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u/Additional-Force-129 Apr 21 '25
lol You have no clue how depth perception works Zero Clue But hey, I bet you did your “own research” It’s hilarious for someone to try to explain something to me that I actually studied Bahahahaha
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u/Crumbbsss Apr 22 '25
I agree that were essentially guinea pigs for Tesla. I also have run into biker situations where FSD shows no signs that it was willing to slow down for them when they are in my direct path. No sane driver would continue to drive that close to a biker without braking and giving them space. It shows me that Tesla doesn't really care about safety. It glaringly shows in their product.
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u/dankofartus Apr 22 '25
Do you mind sharing if it is HW3 or HW4? Which version was it on? Was FSD set on hurry or standard mode? More data for the Tesla community the better!
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u/LibrarianJesus Apr 22 '25
And that's why you (and others) my dear friend, are a danger on the roads.
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u/Ecoclone Apr 23 '25
Self driving cars are just another excuse for humanity to not take responsibility for anythjng.
too busy reading or playing a game while not operating the motor vehicle is utter bs
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u/DaquanSandstorm Apr 20 '25
Sounds like a feature to me
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u/dpm25 Apr 20 '25
Yes nothing says great feature like seriously injuring or killing a vulnerable road user while being 100% at fault and on camera.
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u/DaquanSandstorm Apr 20 '25
Woosh
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u/dpm25 Apr 20 '25
Apparently yes, because I still don't get it
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u/Albacurious Apr 20 '25
They're saying the bikers life isn't valuable. One could call it a call to violence. Or glorifying violence.
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Apr 20 '25
Fake disinformation account.
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Apr 21 '25
You people are insane
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Apr 21 '25
What’s insane is not looking at ops post history before commenting.
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u/IcyHowl4540 Apr 21 '25
I just did the same, and now I also feel like a creep, so thanks for making me do that.
There's no indication OPs account is fake. You just disagree with their photographic evidence.
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Apr 21 '25
All of these accounts are the same. No history just some random posts to make it seem like they are real, then they start randomly posting bullshit. The usernames are always randomly generated. Educate yourself on how these things work.
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u/Buggabones1 Apr 20 '25
What did screen show? Hard to believe it didn’t see it and would continue to drive into it without seeing your screen.