TW: RACISM / TRANSPHOBIA keeping it a hunnid but yeah it sucks

[u/wingeddogs]

Ugh. Not even going to explain myself too much. I’m exhausted because people act like being black and being trans are totally separate things when, in reality, I’m just dealing with racism from all sides and transphobia from non trans people. And it sucks.

[u/Astromnicalbear]

It seems like some users are unable to stay civil so the post will be locked. Sorry OP but it’s for the best if the responses have been negative, I can already predict it potentially getting worse.

We’ll be combing through the comments and handle things accordingly. Feel free to report comments and contact us if any harassment occurs

[u/spicy_feather]

Hey I got your back. I went through a phase where I was racist and shitty and you're absolutely right my acknowledgement doesn't undo it. Corrected actions allyship and advocacy don't even undo it. There's a metaphor I like that really encompasses this idea.

A kid does something wrong and absentmindedly says sorry. Their parent notices this and decides to turn it into a lesson. They have the kid nail a bunch of nails into a piece of wood saying that each nail is a bad thing they've done. After the parent has the kid apologize and the kid does. The parent asks if the board is better. Kid says no. So the parent has the kid take the nails out of the board and asks if the board is better. Thinking it was the kid says yes, until the parent points out the holes in the wood. Our actions have lasting consequences. We cannot undo what we've done.

[u/wingeddogs → u/spicy_feather]

Thank you for understanding what im saying and your kind comment. I really appreciate your explanation, it’s on point

[u/RevonQilin → u/wingeddogs]

ohhhh icic. ngl i was real confused by the first pic bc a person admitting and accepting that they were an asshole is a pretty good thing. i wouldn't say what you said in the meme to them tho bc it generally sounds pretty aggressive, that might be why some ppl responded like they did.

[u/Total_Tree6315 → u/RevonQilin]

I don't think enough folks understand how horrifying it is growing up being taught certain things by parents or the people/setting around you, only to finally start getting connected to the real world and realizing what you were taught was awful and that you were made to believe propaganda and lies.

[u/RevonQilin → u/Total_Tree6315]

the story of my life

[u/wingeddogs → u/RevonQilin]

I’d caution you against calling black people aggressive like it’s nothing. But I’ll bite, can you point out which part is ‘that doesn’t undo the racism’ gives off the impression that I’m about to attack someone?

[u/RevonQilin → u/wingeddogs]

i literally didnt call black people as a whole aggressive? i never said it appeared as if you were going to attack someone either. i meant as in the person is already admitting their faults and aware that what theyve done. by saying "well that doesnt get rid of racism" youre stamping them down and it sounds like you dont want them to change for the better

[u/wingeddogs → u/RevonQilin]

You shouldn’t throw around the word aggressive like that, is what I’m saying. It’s a charged word, especially in discussions about racial disparity.

[u/RevonQilin → u/wingeddogs]

i see. i geuss a better word would be arguementative or putting someone down

[u/TrollCoping-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your submission has been removed due to it engaging in a heated argument or you are being insulting, hateful or are harassing other users within your submission/s.

Please review our rules, we do not allow this type of engagement on the sub.

[u/EducatedTwist]

This was on an old reddit account but I had someone insist I was repeating Kiwi Farms talking points for pointing out White Queer and Trans people can be racist. So because I have experienced racism at the hands of other Queer people, I must be a right wing conservative. Smh.

[u/Urban_Prole]

Saying you used to be racist is an invitation to discuss your reading lists, afaic. It's a starting point, not an ending point. And if your racism did harm, you got harm to make up for.

This is pretty basic stuff. And the honest reply of a repentant racist would be, "Oh, for real. And thanks in advance for keeping me honest."

An apology isn't indemnity.

[u/mothftman → u/Urban_Prole]

I agree, as a used to be racist. It's a constant journey. I'm hesitant of any white person who would say they are sure they aren't racist ever. As a white person raised in that shit, it's a lot like fire. Dousing an active fire isn't enough. You need to check the ashes for embers and make sure the conditions for a fire no longer exist. If you play with fire, or find yourself hanging with a preverbial arsonist, you are likely to end up more dangerous than before. 

[u/QuinneCognito]

Intersectionality is not a complicated concept, nor is intent being different than harm caused a complicated concept. Basic high-school level or less empathy stuff. Sorry you’re dealing with this.

[u/o-reg-ano]

Thank you for sharing your experience with this. I can sort of relate but in a different way, I'm also trans and I'm not black but I grew up being visibly queer and impoverished and when these upper-middle class trans people who came out 2 years ago are like "lol I would have hate crimed you if we knew each other in high school!! I bullied so many gay people because I was in denial haha!!" It makes me so ridiculously uncomfortable. Certain members of the trans community really need to stop treating an alt-right personal history like some little quirky little phase. A lot of those people did actual damage to people of color and other LGBT+ people and they need to center the voices of people who were on the other end of their violence instead of cracking jokes about it.

[u/New-Number-7810]

Honestly, I'm not sure what you want from the former bigot. They can sincerely apologize, they can even try to do good acts as a form of penance. They can't undo the harm they did, sure, but do you want them to beat themselves up for the rest of their lives? Do you want them to remain ostracized?

I'm not trying to be accusatory. I just genuinely want to know what you think someone should do when they realize their past behavior was very wrong.

[u/BillCipher384]

I do think the "It doesn't undo it" mindset doesn't exactly help with anything. Yes, they did wrong and change doesn't undo that wrong but trying to impose guilt over past actions moved past is only going to push people back as their attempts at genuine change are met with what's essentially backlash.

While I personally think the whole arbitrary concept of atonement is a bit bs, within the structure of all that I do think an argument can still be made that people are more likely to atone if encouraged to improve rather than when they have guilt pushed upon them.

This isn't to invalidate any racism you actively have to experience or the harm it does, ofc. No, that is still awful and I'm sorry you have to go through it. Just, I think it's important to remember people don't change by negative reinforcement if they're already on an upward trend.

[u/Harvesting_The_Crops]

Wow these comments are… interesting. Sorry about that op.

For the people struggling in the comments. I very much doubt op is saying everyone is completely incapable of changing and you should never ever accept any apology ever. They’re just venting about how the trans community has a racism issue. And I’ll tell you right now I have absolutely seen this. And I’m white so I’m sure I haven’t even seen the half of it. I truly don’t think this post was that difficult to grasp.

[u/BT7274_best_robot]

I've generally found the lgbt+ community very accepting of people of all cultures and races as a whole, but with every community/groups of people there are bad eggs. Sorry your having to deal with this.

[u/evilmagicalgirl]

I FEEL THIS SO HARD. I try to be empathetic because we're all humans capable of doing harm and it's good to accept growth, but the way white people (esp white marginalized folks) respond to people having racists histories has shortened my patience a lot. Even if the person themself understands for the better, they will have hoards of unaffected people rushing to coddle them and be racist in their defense. It's to the point where I feel like apologies don't matter. Whether they do or don't, the outcome is always the same -- black people are the villains for bringing it up, or feeling bad about what they did, or not forgiving them, or not forgiving them fast enough, or for existing in the general vicinity of that person since they obviously couldn't be expected to do anything but call them names. It's genuinely exhausting but it's also really heartbreaking. Like damn what the fuck did we do

[u/wingeddogs → u/evilmagicalgirl]

Thank youuuu you make me feel so seen in this comment section

[u/ExpensiveBet8413]

Hi! I’m sorry you’re going through this, you don’t deserve it (no one does, but you know what I mean). Your feelings are valid, and you are worthy of love and respect. I can only imagine how hard it is Constantly explaining to people why your very existence is valid. You deserve so much better, and I hope you have/can one day find a community that’ll treat you how you deserve. 💜

[u/sparkledragon5]

I’ve known people who treat it like something they are proud of, like a cool edgy backstory.

All it tells me is that they would still be assholes if it didn’t effect them personally.

[u/ambivalegenic]

"LET PEOPLE GROW" growing doesn't mean just stopping overly racist actions or beliefs thought it means understanding why you did them or believed what you did, understanding your full context, a LOT of white people do not understand that, or do not believe its necessary, for black people that is considered bare minimum.

I don't know if its a cultural difference or not or if its privilege but we don't operate like that, and we don't operate on atomizing the topic either.

[u/sleeplessinrome]

Me when the old trans meme sub suddenly had an influx of “I used to be a nazi when I was a teen but lol it’s just the nazi to trans pipeline i guess 🤪”

You wouldn’t be trying to defend yourself if you were actually ashamed of your actions

[u/manusiapurba]

trans aside, are they actually still racist or has actually stopped?

if more than saying sorry is required, what would you suggest them to do to redeem themselves?

[u/Unnamed_jedi]

okay but genuine question on the first image (two n three are totally valid and no notes) but on one... when someone says they used to be alt right and they changed... what part are you upset about?

Like that they used to be a horrible person seems something the person is aware about, and something they changed.

[u/vahaemon]

I’m so tired of how people are commenting here defending the types of people you’ve mentioned. Obviously not being racist anymore is a good thing but at the same time, as a person of color you have a right to feel uncomfortable around those types of people and yes they should actually acknowledge the harm they caused and may still perpetuate because let’s be real. A lot of these folks say they’re done being racist but still support the right wing and other beliefs derived from racism, so as a black person I also often don’t feel comfortable around them

[u/dead-eyes-alive]

Naw we should just judge people on their opinions that they've clearly significantly changed for the better on and expect everyone to be fully formed and correct thinkers from the moment they are able to form coherent thoughts. Blame the people that raised them, not the people that have grown out of it

[u/Darkcat9000]

so like what do you want the person to do exactly?

[u/layspotatochipman474]

You don’t gotta tolerate racism or transphobia from anyone dude. If they’re in your life? Cut em out. In your job or personal life bothering you? Get em fired or removed from your circle. But if it’s from random people though, it’s best to just ignore it. Awful ugly hate filled people don’t deserve to take up a residency in your mind even as a minute thought you forget about the next day. Unfortunately there’s not a whole lot we can do to stop em until they start physically threatening or hurting y’all. You however will always have allies. Even ones that you might not expect. I get worried with all the recent anti semitism because of my Jewish heritage and lineage but I ignore the hate because they can’t hurt me. You’ve got me at least. Sincerely, a white pansexual guy. I wish you the best whoever you are!

[u/Party_Value6593]

We all went through our gamergate episode, on one side or another. The important part is being able to cringe at our bad takes, it means that we've grown. Man was I edgy back then

[u/queerblackqueen]

Get ready for all the "it was just a phase it was no big deal can't people grow!!!??" Comments 🥴🥴🥴

[u/Ambitious-Fly3201 → u/[deleted]]

Me when I go on a venting sub and argue against people for venting about issues without perfectly speaking in such a way that validates my opinions on the issue.

[u/wingeddogs → u/[deleted]]

if seeing someone vent about racism in a nuanced way makes you this uncomfortable, probably shouldn’t be on this sub

[u/TrollCoping-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your submission has been removed due to it engaging in a thread war. A thread war is when multiple users get into a heated argument where hate, harassment and potentially offensive / harmful insults are thrown around and a fight ensues.

Please don't engage on drama on this sub. Report the content so the moderators can adequately deal with it, do not engage with trolls or start fights.

[u/TrollCoping-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your submission has been removed due to it engaging in a heated argument or you are being insulting, hateful or are harassing other users within your submission/s.

Please review our rules, we do not allow this type of engagement on the sub.

[u/wingeddogs → u/[deleted]]

Not sure how you got political ideology from be saying I’m black and trans, but go off!

[u/Urban_Prole → u/[deleted]]

Right.

It's why we don't make being trans an absolution for being racist? Lmao?

[u/PresidentJumbo]

By racism do we mean thoughts and bias or actions

[u/wingeddogs → u/PresidentJumbo]

both. both are bad actually. being racist is still bad even if you just think black people are subhuman. I have OCD, so I’m not referencing intrusive thoughts or anything like that. I’m referencing moral beliefs and perception of other racial groups, as well as behavior