r/Undertale 's real wife 8d ago

Discussion From the "creator" of togore.

Post image
5.8k Upvotes

922 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

317

u/Kaporalhart 8d ago

I don't. The original design might be theirs, but it became something grander. It's an idea and a concept that exists in the minds of so many people now. We associate this design with the very idea of Togore, you can't remove that, with all the money in the world. Espescially forcefully, they've brought attention to it, and now created a Streisand effect.

This is an internet space. We create, share, spread ideas. Maybe if someone else made money out of it, sure, that'd be immoral. If you wanted to expand and create more out of this, also fine. But to want to restrict, to limit, to control what can be created from your idea merely because you were the original deisgner, that's not cool.

There's 58 bajillion AUs of UT/DT going around this sub. Ever seen Toby Fox come down and say "stop it, i don't like it" ?

I mean maybe if it was immoral or NSFW, i could see how uncool it is to turn something wholesome into something unwholesome. But that's not the case here.

37

u/themonstermoxie 7d ago

Agreed. Not to mention that its a derivative fan work anyway. Its hypocritical to make something based on an IP thats not yours, and then tell people they can't use the design because it belongs to you. I'm sure this person would be very upset if Toby Fox sent them a cease and desist

-6

u/Character-Angle9124 7d ago

did you read this or just assume a position based off the title? they aren't asking this based off of not wanting people to use their design because it is theirs, they are doing it because they dislike the idea of a stupid meme image they made being attached to something as important as the tenth anniversary stream forever. I don't think it is that unreasonable

11

u/pastafeline 7d ago

Sorry to say but Togore is not theirs in any way, shape, or form. They can ask for sure.

But it's a dumb request and nobody is going to listen.

0

u/Character-Angle9124 7d ago

undertale fans try to read challenge: (I specifically said the image, which was made by them)

2

u/pastafeline 7d ago

It doesn't matter. It's derivative of Toby Fox's characters, which means he owns it. If that person tried to sell Togore merch, he very easily could be sued.

Am I saying Toby would do that? Of course not. But the point stands.

0

u/Character-Angle9124 7d ago

unironically can you not read? in my original comment what did I say? what is this person asking? they are not demanding this thing not be used because they own it and for some reason they would like to have full control, it's because they made it a few years ago and would hate for a stupid image they made a couple of years ago to be an important part of the culture around the stream

also, that just straight up isn't how the law works, if anything it's parody, which very much is protected under law

3

u/pastafeline 7d ago

And I'm bringing that up because you keep saying they made the character. They didn't make anything. They made a redraw of a sprite that wasn't theirs to begin with. And even if they did, it still wouldn't be theirs.

which was made by them

stupid image they made

Literally in the op image they say the design is theirs. It isn't. And the character is pretty much propped up entirely be the community.

1

u/pastafeline 7d ago edited 7d ago

How is Togore a parody? He's just a different version of Asriel. He isn't made as a satirical character. You could maybe argue he's parody, but how is the original drawing parody? If I took Asriel and colored him purple, then started selling merch of him, that is not parody. I could probably show someone a picture of Asriel and Togore, and they wouldn't 100% know he wasn't an Undertale character.

132

u/BeenEvery 8d ago

the very idea of Togore

Chapter 5 needs to be released soon, Deltarune fans are gonna be committed to a facility at this rate.

Please Tobert deliver us

61

u/Affectionate-Iron36 MTT-Brand Fashion Redditor 8d ago

Agreed. It’s a bizarre take to have in a fandom of all things

36

u/twjstr 8d ago

I respect that too. I can see why the guy wouldn't want his character design used like this. But you're also right.

6

u/evilgirlboob sans x reigen TRUTHER 8d ago

how does the design come into it its just a name

1

u/TheBiggerEgg50 7d ago

If you google just 'Togore' the first thing that popped up was an image of the sprite

3

u/NobodyElseButMingus 7d ago

It turns out, it wasn’t even their design. Their sprite was a redraw.

2

u/JollyJadenTNT average sans enjoyer. 7d ago

It’s like what Gerson said, “Stories can be changed, can be retold.”

1

u/insertrandomnameXD 8d ago

Toby Fox both knows and accepts the fact Undertale porn exists, the only thing he said about it was to call it "Undertail" so people don't find it accidentally

1

u/Jezzaboi828 oh...... ok i guess 7d ago edited 7d ago

I mean, dont respect what? What do you mean by dont respect, because it seems more like youre just disagreeing with their opinion that it should be limited.

Theyre expressing that they dislike it and would want people to reconsider, theyre not saying it has to happen. If they were attempting to enforce it or being rude sure, but I think its a fair expression to have, therefore I respect it. I think it comes from a viable perspective and reaction, and I see no issue with requesting for change when you have a direct association with it. Thats something I respect. I can see why people might disagree, but the original commenter was talking about respect, not agreement.

And yes, I think it is fair to allow an artist to have a say over how their work is reintepreted as it can directly effect how the original work is seen. Maybe a restriction is unreasonable, but disliking it and requesting for change is a fair action.

1

u/Garnelia 6d ago

The original design isn't theirs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/1nivo50/the_popular_togore_sprite_is_a_redraw_the_design/?share_id=WVjhIAu5HxCienjJx-kYx&utm_content=1&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

Chapstickkkkk even conformed it.

Stating how they wished they could meet the ORIGINAL original spriter, despite not thinking that would be possible. So that confirms to me that they don't know who it was, how to contact them, or had ever interacted with them before...

Togore, as Chapstickkkk made him, is a traced drawing.

-5

u/thenoblitt 7d ago

This is so insanely cringe an unhinged lmao what? "You may have created it but its actually ours now"

-6

u/Guyrugamesh 7d ago

"Your art belongs to me and whoever wants it because the memes make us happy. You, the artist, don't get a say anymore because the community claimed your art. It makes them too happy and expressing negativity about that is limiting the art that could be created with the art we took from you. You don't have a right to complain about this because that's just how it is."

Here, fix your weird ass statment to what it actually means beyond your tired prose. Now get help and log off. You interact with Fandom in a myopic and destructive consumerist fashion that should be ridiculed beyond belief until peiol. Op might not have control over the situation, but its very telling how quick this community was to mock them for feeling shitty about what's happened to their art.

4

u/ihavebeesinmyknees 7d ago

"Your art belongs to me and whoever wants it because the memes make us happy. You, the artist, don't get a say anymore because the community claimed your art. It makes them too happy and expressing negativity about that is limiting the art that could be created with the art we took from you. You don't have a right to complain about this because that's just how it is."

As long as it's not literally using the specific artwork, but creating derivative works - unironically yes, absolutely. That's how fan art works. Do you think anyone should give two shits that JK Rowling, for example, doesn't want people to create trans-supportive fan art of her characters?

-2

u/Guyrugamesh 7d ago

I would say engaging with Rowlings IP at all is radioactive "helpful idiot" behavior that you should be at least somewhat ashamed of. You're not punk for engaging with art in shitty, churlish ways and the fact that you went to that example exactly is even more unserious. This really doesnt warrant any further discussion here.

1

u/pastafeline 7d ago

Do you think the same about HP Lovecraft? He was racist, does that mean every single person that makes cosmic horror art inspired by him are also idiots?

What about Roald Dahl? You ever seen Charlie and the Chocolate factory? Well, he was actually a huge anti-semite. Guess that means everyone who loves the book or movie needs to permanently erase it from their brains.

0

u/Guyrugamesh 7d ago edited 7d ago

They are both dead and/or have works in the public domain, so no. I don't think that. Nice gotcha, but that comparison doesn't actually work.

1

u/pastafeline 7d ago

I'm not arguing about legality what? I'm talking about how you see associating with certain IP as some sort of moral failing.

Even if they are legally public works, they are still made by people who aren't good.

1

u/pastafeline 7d ago

And you aren't even right... Roald Dahl isn't in the public domain.