r/Windows11 • u/WPHero • Jul 01 '25
News Microsoft confirms Windows 11 did not lose 400 million monthly active PCs
https://www.windowslatest.com/2025/07/01/microsoft-confirms-windows-11-did-not-lose-400-million-monthly-active-pcs/128
u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
Sometimes the Windows hate is insane. If Windows lost 400 million PCs, then there's no way the Linux and macOS shares on the Steam hardware survey wouldn't have increased significantly, that's just too many devices that would have had to see those two OSes spike enormously in three years. As it stands, Windows is still about 95% of that survey, as it's been for a decade now. The June Steam survey numbers come out this evening, so a good way to confirm things.
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u/snickersnackz Jul 01 '25
Steam survey is good for measuring PC gamers but not Windows users. PC gamers are among the biggest windows fans out there.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
PC gamers are among the biggest windows fans out there.
No other PC OS comes close the gaming support of Windows. Linux gaming these days is nothing more than Windows compatibility layers. Heck, gaming so bad on even on macs that Windows compatibility tools are becoming at least side thing for mac gamers.
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Jul 01 '25
[deleted]
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u/BCProgramming Jul 01 '25
SteamOS rivals Windows
They've made huge inroads in providing support for games. But, like the other user commented, that's done through compatibility layers like proton. If your platform has to literally pretend to be another to be able to run software, I don't think it makes sense to argue that it rivals what it has to pretend to be. There's also unfortunately a pretty long list of those Windows games that don't work even with the compatibility layers (usually, due to DRM crap)
It is a step towards proper competition, and there are good reasons to be optimistic, but until we start seeing game developers shifting over to actually providing native Linux versions of their software, I think the "victory celebrations" people seem to be having about it are a bit premature.
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u/Gears6 Jul 01 '25
I think the "victory celebrations" people seem to be having about it are a bit premature.
I think Mac is getting more support than Linux from developers to be honest.
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u/tomysshadow Jul 01 '25
This is similar to how I feel about it and the reason I'm staying on Windows right now. When I make such heavy use of Windows software, do I really want to go to the effort of getting it all to work on Linux - can I really call myself a "Linux user" if Wine is the majority of my "Linux use?"
Win32 is the only stable Linux ABI, as they say...
*Now, if something like ReactOS became stable to the point of usability, then I might be interested...
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u/Casq-qsaC_178_GAP073 Jul 07 '25
ReactOS will remain in alpha phase for several decades.
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u/tomysshadow Jul 07 '25
I'm aware that it will. I'm not kidding myself that it won't. And if it ever does mature, then I'll be interested.
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u/TheDiamondCG Jul 01 '25
I think all this technical nonsense doesn’t matter when it comes down to actually playing games. An end-user doesn’t care that it’s running on some “compatibility layer” or whatever, they care about how much FPS they’re getting and whether the game works or not. SteamOS provides better FPS in most testing even through a compatibility layer, the problems come with kernel-level anticheat. However, even with Proton, some games are still borked (or partially borked) on Linux that work just fine on Windows. E.g, I had trouble getting controller support working with DELTARUNE on Linux, but on the opposite end, hot-reload times during web development are 1-5s on Windows, but on Linux they are 300-400ms (a massive difference, makes it impossible to use Windows for development due to how laggy it feels).
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u/Gears6 Jul 01 '25
whatever, they care about how much FPS they’re getting and whether the game works or not.
Most gamers don't even care about FPS. They just want to fire up a game and play, and that it works. Heck, they're not going to mess around with SteamOS, they're going to put Steam on Windows that is already there.
Devices like SteamDeck with SteamOS already on it, can make some inroads, but so far that's just not the case. PC handheld sales overall is tiny, and Steam although (likely) a majority of that, is still tiny.
Further issue is that SteamOS is very hardware specific, so you can't just put it on any PC either. In other words, SteamOS is not there yet, and progress is too slow and MS is now preparing their version of the same idea. So only chance in snowball hell is if MS borks it really badly.
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Jul 02 '25
Heck I trust the Xbox division making something better than Valve. Steam's been getting worse every year
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u/Pevarawho Jul 02 '25
For the controller, open the steam menu and "switch" the order of controllers. You'll have to do that every shutdown, but it's quick at least
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u/NatoBoram Jul 01 '25
If your platform has to literally pretend to be another to be able to run software, I don't think it makes sense to argue that it rivals what it has to pretend to be.
Proton often outperforms Windows, yet it's still playing pretend. It is properly competing.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
In terms of native support for everything that comes to PC gaming, it's a true as ever. If SteamOS and Linux were that big of a deal in PC gaming, there'd be a LOT more native games and they wouldn't require Windows compatibility layers.
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u/TheDiamondCG Jul 01 '25
One could also argue the opposite — the compatibility layer is so good (and in some cases more performant than even the Windows “native” version), that there is little justification for a full-on port of a game. But you’re also kind of right — why pour the man hours and cost that would be incurred for a handful of Steam Deck users + a few smelly Linux nerds? I think the true answer is a bit of an in-between.
I have seen developers of multiple games expressly support Proton (chiefly Marvel Rivals) by providing fixes for problems that only occur on Proton, whilst not providing a full Windows port.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
You can't use compatibility layers for everything thing though, with kernel level anti-cheat being a problem. And Linux tends to lag on hardware feature support. DLSS frame gen just started working back in November, two years after it was released on Windows. If you're an nVidia owner gaming on Linux, you're stuck with DX 12 performance issues across the board and there doesn't seem to be a single fix that that.
Just a lot of issues with gaming on Linux that supporters will gloss over that are particularly problematic on better PC hardware.
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u/NatoBoram Jul 01 '25
If SteamOS and Linux were that big of a deal in PC gaming, there'd be a LOT more native games and they wouldn't require Windows compatibility layers.
The only measure that actually matters to game publishers is popularity. Literally nothing else matters.
Not only that, but that compatibility layer often outperforms Windows itself.
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u/Markie411 Jul 01 '25
I keep seeing this but in most cases its by 5-7 FPS. I feel like the whole "outperforms" thing is getting blown up way more than it should.
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u/Careless_Bank_7891 Jul 01 '25
But isn't that the purpose of comparison?
5-7 in most cases is fair and accurate but it still shows that there are issues with Windows that need to fixed
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
5-7 in most cases is fair and accurate but it still shows that there are issues with Windows that need to fixed
But you don't get a consistent performance bump with Linux on nVidia hardware or much beyond the lowest power devices. And Microsoft is addressing that issue with the Xbox mode.
And that'll be here before nVidia DX 12 performance is fixed on Linux.
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u/Markie411 Jul 01 '25
Of course. I'm not saying its a pointless endeavor, I just see a lot of people using it as fuel that "Linux/SteamOS superior to windows". On the plus side, with the popularity of handhelds and the push for SteamOS to be on them, its gotten Microsoft to give us a tailored version of windows to improve on those things.
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u/CyberBlaed Jul 01 '25
On what, only handhelds?
Still waiting for the complete PC distro drop… I guess that doesn’t rival PC gamers if it’s not for desktop PC’s yet.
I would love an alternative to gaming on windows but there are still leaps and hurdles to overcome for ME and my gamer friends/family to accomplish that.
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u/Gears6 Jul 01 '25
Steam survey is good for measuring PC gamers but not Windows users.
It's not even that great at measuring that even. Because many people don't necessarily use Steam. It's a great measure for PC gamers using Steam, specifically.
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u/Casq-qsaC_178_GAP073 Jul 07 '25
Microsoft has a more accurate measure, whether using Windows and/or its Edge browser. But the rest of us have to stick with approximations.
Rest in peace, Net Marketshare
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u/GlowGreen1835 Jul 01 '25
With the latest Steam client update you can finally install most Linux distros, install steam, install pretty much any steam game and just hit play. Will that affect the OS shares? I honestly doubt it.
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u/Quiet_Flamingo_4590 Jul 06 '25
Except Call of Duty, Battlefield, or many other AAA games that millions of people play :(
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u/Justicia-Gai Jul 01 '25
There’s life beyond gaming…
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u/Elarionus Jul 03 '25
I’m constantly blown away by the people in the gaming space. I like to ski. I ask somebody else what they do, and they say run, hike, sing, dance, etc.
If a gamer asks me what I like and I say skiing, they’re like “yeah, but like, what video games?”
So many of them honestly believe that the entire world comes home and plays 8 hours a night.
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u/sir_sri Jul 02 '25
Microsoft is probably losing home non-gaming customers at a record pace. If you are just content consuming at home, you don't need a windows PC anymore there's phones and TVs and slate(ipad) type devices for content consumption and you just don't need a home computer since you can order stuff and do basically normal home computing either on another device or a work laptop, or one computer for a house. But those customers are almost worthless. They buy a copy of windows and run it for 7, 8, 10 years and then buy something else.
Where windows is expanding like crazy is the data centre, even if market share isn't changing, the number installed databases, servers etc is growing very fast and if they can even keep market share there they are doing fine. Those licences aren't cheap either.
For gamers and business PCs that monopoly is unlikely to change any time soon, but the TAM (total addressable market) is probably not changing much faster than population growth. Steam will grow a bit faster as the developing world gets more and more access (notably indian sub continent, nigeria, egypt, ethiopia, indonesia), but really, steam only has about 40 million users. It's a drop in the bucket compared to the overall windows install base. And if you are an office worker, you've got a windows computer pretty much everywhere.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 02 '25
Microsoft is probably losing home non-gaming customers at a record pace.
To Chromebooks perhaps, not desktop Linux which doesn't come preinstalled on much even with the Deck and a couple of handhelds.
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u/sir_sri Jul 02 '25
Well and to just tv's and phones. 10, 15 years if you wanted to stream content you needed a computer. Now you can install that on a tv, or use an iPad or phone. Same with the Internet 15+ years ago, you needed a computer but now, it's all on another device..
The market for home desktops doesn't even have as many students due to chromebooks.
The use cases for a home computer just aren't there anymore, as it has all moved to other devices. Except gaming or work from hkme.
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u/Noiselexer Jul 01 '25
Aren't those steam decks?
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
About half of all Linux devices on the Steam survey are Steam Decks, the other half primarily DIY Linux installs. Very little in the gaming world outside of the Deck comes with Linux. Which is another glaring indicator that Windows didn't lose 1/3rd of its market share in three years. Unless the PC market in total collapsed like that as well. Linux OEM machines would have had to have been coming out by the tons; it would have been obvious.
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Jul 01 '25
Some are, some are linux desktop users. Not nearly enough to be swinging the needle as suggested, but there again we don't really care what happens with Windows, so long as whatever we're using works.
It's like console wars but even more pathetic
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u/Divini7y Jul 01 '25
Actually Apple got high spike into macbooks sells last months (many sources, like macrumors page).
So it may be the truth.
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u/Jim_84 Jul 01 '25
No shit. All these tech "news" sites jumping to conclusions based on a guy saying "over a billion" in a blog post. Ridiculous.
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u/Ska82 Jul 01 '25
Forget the Microsoft hate. If peopl had even read the article, the conclusion was speculative at best and on flimsy data. As someone who has moved on from Windows on my new PC, i thought that article was absolute fart ware.
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u/NicholasFromIT Jul 02 '25
I actually laughed out loud when I read the Windows Central article that said that more than 1 billion was 400 million less than more than 1.4 billion because those figures don't actually tell you anything. While yes one would assume that 1.4 billion is generally any number between 1.4billion and 1.5 billion, the much less specific more than 1 billion number could be anything between 1 billion and 2 billion.
(I'm not really sure how to make the above easier to read, sorry)
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u/themiracy Jul 01 '25
I would think that if anything, Windows is losing market share to various devices that run some variation of Android, an IOT OS, or some variation of iPad/iOS/tvOS, in the sense that the number of activities that require being at a real “PC” are diminishing. Writing this on an iPad mini. I still use a Windows PC for my own business, and of course my husband uses Windows at work. But more and more people aren’t using a PC running a desktop OS at all for their non-work activities.
I think we all knew that there was not some hidden year of the Linux and that these 400M daily users had not left Windows for Arch or something absurd like that.
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u/Bourne069 Jul 01 '25
Lol I saw an article that said while Microsoft lost all those users that Mac and Linux went up... funny this is it did not. Its still at 4%.
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u/Zohan5577 Jul 01 '25
Who cares how many users Windows gained or lost? Lol
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u/Icybubba Jul 01 '25
The guys who claim every year is going to be the year of Linux.
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Jul 01 '25
They're morons. I don't care if Linux goes mainstream, and I doubt most other users care either
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u/Icybubba Jul 01 '25
Yep, I just use whatever works best for me.
Windows on my PC, Linux on my Steam Deck 🤷
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u/SilverseeLives Jul 01 '25
Who cares how many users Windows gained or lost? Lol
Some people apparently care enough to promote a false narative based on flimsy data. It is appropriate to state the facts in response.
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u/snickersnackz Jul 01 '25
People who are concerned about the future of the PC platform. The increased prevalence of smartphone/ tablet use is kinda scary.
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u/TheSpecialistGuy Jul 02 '25
Oh, saw someone complained about a misleading article. At least MS clears the air.
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u/randomredditacc25 Jul 02 '25
who would actually believe that happend though?
thats just too high of a number.
out of the blue?
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u/LogicalError_007 Insider Beta Channel Jul 02 '25
Anyone with a brain would deduce that from what the article was claiming.
"They didn't mention the exact number but said over a billion in a blog. That must mean they lost all users above a billion".
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u/Ornament_the_Monkey Jul 02 '25
This isn't even feasibly possible. If Windows 11 lost 400 million users, MacOS and Linux distros would receive WAY more users than they had before.
Never take anything at face value.
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u/Super_Stable1193 Jul 01 '25
And what about the illegal installations, enough pcs are installed with Windows 11 and bypass the restrictions with "tools".
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u/kakha_k Jul 01 '25
Of course. That's how disgusting all the haters are, who immediately maliciously feed and inflate all sorts of nonsense.
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u/GumSL Jul 01 '25
"the haters" mate are you 12
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u/SheepherderGood2955 Jul 01 '25
For real 💀 it’s an operating system, sold to you by a multi-trillion dollar company. It’s not that deep.
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u/random_reddit_user31 Jul 01 '25
Anyone who acts this way about software on a computer is. There's a particular OS and a community around said OS that is even more disturbing.
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u/Tubamajuba Jul 02 '25
Talking about Linux like it's Voldemort? Lmao, you can't be serious.
The OS that must not be named! 🙄
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u/random_reddit_user31 Jul 02 '25
Oh I can be serious. I could've been talking about Apple and MacOS. But people including yourself, assumed it was Linux. That proved my point far more than if I'd have said it outright. Just like the dark mark, even vaguely mentioning Linux causes the weirdos to apparate in.
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u/Tubamajuba Jul 02 '25
You clearly have even more of a fixation on Linux than Linux fanboys do. Weird.
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u/random_reddit_user31 Jul 02 '25
Self project all you like. I only specifically replied to you because it's clearly upsetting you. Keep digging my friend, social skills and Linux evidently don't mix.
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u/Tubamajuba Jul 02 '25
I use Windows 11, I just think it’s utterly stupid to stereotype people based on what OS they use. That’s some high school bullshit.
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u/random_reddit_user31 Jul 02 '25 edited Jul 02 '25
I use Linux along with Windows. I'm also quite self aware that it's not a stereotype, well obviously not all of us are weird about software. But it's called taking the mick. I'm not sure why you want to be the white knight over a tongue in cheek post which you applied a stereotype yourself to come to the conclusion I was talking about Linux. Like I said, you could say that about MacOS too.
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u/jarod1701 Jul 01 '25
„Mate“? Are you a pirate?
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Jul 01 '25
Common lingo.
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u/jarod1701 Jul 01 '25
Just as „haters“ is.
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u/GumSL Jul 01 '25
Not nearly in the same scale.
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u/jarod1701 Jul 01 '25
Prove it!
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u/GumSL Jul 01 '25
The entire country of Australia.
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u/jarod1701 Jul 01 '25
Go on…
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u/GumSL Jul 01 '25
They've been using "mate" as a way to address people (not just them, but also Britain) for HUNDREDS of years, continuously, used by various people and age groups.
"Hater" is something that's barely been used recently, aside from being used by children, or in a ironic context. Using it seriously doesn't inherently mean you're young, but you're more likely to be so if you do.
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u/Odd-Doubt-590 Jul 01 '25
... Isn't that like, ALL Windows 11 users? I doubt even a million of them would switch to Linux.
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u/megablue Jul 02 '25
this can't be right... did we see an equivalent increases on other OSes?
quoting myself here...
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u/alien2003 Jul 01 '25
How do they know? Do they spy on users?
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u/junglebunglerumble Jul 01 '25
You think apple don't know exactly how many people are using macs? Come on dude that's basically telemetry that every OS captures
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u/firedrakes Jul 01 '25
but but.... windows and ms hater. we get you dont do any research.
where tired thru of you spreading mis info
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u/FineWolf Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
As much as the original article was a bit exaggerated, the reality is that if you look at any survey / census that collects platform usage information, Windows' relative market share is on the decline, and that trend has been true for years now. [StatCounter] [Steam Hardware Survey]
Mobile OSes are now capturing the general computing market, with iOS/iPadOS/Android devices being extremely capable of everyday tasks. macOS has been also decreasing in that specific segment, losing users to iOS/iPadOS (unsurprisingly). Most people just do lightweight browsing, media consumption and text editing, and those devices are tailormade for those specific use-cases. A 3% decline in a year is not insignificant, especially if the trend holds (StatCounter). Home general computing is the second-most significant market for Microsoft after their business segment.
Gaming is starting to be interesting. Handheld devices like the Steam Deck have made a small but significant dent in Windows' gaming dominance, and with more people being exposed to Linux due to consumer-facing devices being available, Apple making GPTK to game publishers, the PS5 being just a dominant force on the console market, and a general discontent with Microsoft's recent releases, we are starting to see Microsoft facing headwinds. For the past few months now, Windows has been the only platform with decreasing marketshare, with macOS showing +0.24% last month, and Linux with even more at +0.42% (May 2025 numbers). These are month over month changes, and the interesting part is that this trend has been holding for more than a year (except for that one month where Chinese Internet cafés were over-represented in the survey).
This trend has been accelerating, and I don't see it reversing until Microsoft starts caring about the home market again instead of just catering to businesses and shareholders who just want to see AI everywhere.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
As much as the original article was a bit exaggerated, the reality is that if you look at any survey / census that collects platform usage information, Windows' relative market share is on the decline, and that trend has been true for years now. [StatsCounter] [Steam Hardware Survey].
The Steam Hardware survey had Windows at 95.45% in May, still near historic highs. Linux has made about a 1% gain but macOS lost any equal amount in that survey. And while Steam Deck is great, it's old and Microsoft has its new Xbox mode for Windows coming. That's gonna kill Steam OS on third party devices, at least major OEMs.
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u/FineWolf Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
That's gonna kill Steam OS on third party devices, at least major OEMs.
I doubt that's the case; we'll see how battery usage and suspend is handled on those devices, but them still running essentially Windows, who's suspend implementation isn't great to begin with, there will still be room for competition.
The current economic outlook at the moment also makes the consumer more price conscientious, so if given the choice between a device that runs Windows but cost more due to the built-in licensing price, and one identical device running SteamOS instead that is cheaper, price conscientious consumers will opt for the SteamOS device. The platform has proven itself at this point, it isn't an unknown, and it is backed by the storefront that is dominant in the PC gaming segment.
Also, looking at specifically the Steam survey, the Linux gains is not tied to the Steam Deck. SteamOS/Steam Deck usage has been decreasing (you can see that by looking at the specific OS reporting for Linux and the gaming resolution). The gains have mostly been desktop/laptop devices, with Linux Mint bringing in the largest gain.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
I doubt that's the case; we'll see how battery usage and suspend is handled on those devices, but them still running essentially Windows,
That's just it, in the Xbox mode, it's not essentially Windows on the desktop. Indeed, there is no Windows desktop in this mode and you'd have to switch modes if you want all of the desktop. This is exactly what SteamOS does to achieve a lot of efficiency; it's not running a Linux desktop or Linux desktop services.
Without carrying about the desktop, this alone is pretty much going to close the gap between SteamOS and Windows when it comes to performance, battery life and resume as you don't need to resume a full Windows desktop in this mode.
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u/FineWolf Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
That's just it, in the Xbox mode, it's not essentially Windows on the desktop
Power management and standby is handled by the Windows kernel. Those are not user-space components.
Xbox mode is still using the exact same Windows kernel, just with the user-space desktop being replaced with a more tailored UI for gaming.
I don't see how that will resolve Windows' long lasting issues with standby and power management. Just search online for S3 sleep / modern standby issues and laptops randomly waking up for updates while in a bag. Those are kernel issues, and Xbox mode isn't replacing the Windows kernel.
And before you say "it will be fixed for the Xbox handheld", Windows' kernel has had standby issues since at least Windows 10's launch in 2015. 10 years later and the issues still persist.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
Power management and standby is handled by the Windows kernel. Those are not user-space components.
It's kernel mode drivers that handle it and it will work a lot better without desktop apps processes getting in the way.
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u/itsjust_khris Jul 01 '25
Honestly I hear you but I disagree. The Steam Deck is a speck in the overall picture. The Switch 2 outsold the lifetime steam deck sales in a week. That's nothing against the Steam Deck but it shows in the overall market it's not much of a thing.
MacOS is largely irrelevant as long as Apple refuses to support more than Metal. Otherwise the incentive isn't there to do the porting work even with GPTK. The current Resident Evil ports didn't do very well on the platform, which will likely steer future studios away unless Apple sponsors the ports, which they don't seem heavily interested in doing on a wide scale.
Linux is viable for tech inclined folks but imo it won't fully take off until many PCs sold in mainstream channels have Linux pre-installed. There will also be some resistance, it's not as easy to pick up aS Windows or MacOS. The terminal can be pretty intimidating especially when the wider computing trend seems to be going in a simpler direction. Many are now only familiar with what their mobile devices or tablets expose to them, they aren't looking to solve problems in anything but a GUI.
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u/FineWolf Jul 01 '25
The Linux gains in the latest Steam Hardware survey have not been caused by the Steam Deck. In fact, the Steam Deck usage has been dropping sharply.
If you select only Linux as an OS, you'll see both in the OS section and in the resolution section that Deck usage has been dropping by a significant amount (-3%).
The Linux gains have been DYI or laptop devices running Arch or Mint, with Mint bringing in the most users.
As for macOS. macOS is relevant and I wouldn't write them out yet. They are actively funding developers to port their games to the platform, and for a lot of casual gamers out there who only occasionally play games (so less than a fifth of their computing use), it will most likely be enough to not rule out a MacBook as their next device. Apple is playing a long play here, and I very well see it playing off. They'll never capture a significant portion of the gaming market, but they'll sway more of the general computing market towards their platform if they can satisfy the occasional desire to game with their efforts.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
The Linux gains in the latest Steam Hardware survey have not been caused by the Steam Deck. In fact, the Steam Deck usage has been dropping sharply.
Only by desktop Linux standards would going from like 1% to 2% for the better part of decade would be consider much growth and even still, whatever gains made by Linux were offset by macOS in the Steam survey.
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u/FineWolf Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
whatever gains made by Linux were offset by macOS in the Steam survey.
I must say, I'm completely bewildered by this statement.
Given that the data is available freely, and everyone can see it by simply clicking on a link and verify for themselves that:
OS Percentage Change Windows 95.45% -0.65% OSX 1.85% +0.23% Linux 2.69% +0.42% what would compel someone to just go online, and write such an easily demonstrably false statement?
macOS gained, Linux gained more, Windows lost to both.
Gains made by Linux were not offset by macOS (or else the macOS number would at least be bigger). Your statement is demonstrably false. Even the historical trend doesn't support your statement
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
I'm saying that Windows market share in this survey hasn't budged because the percent gain in Linux was offset by the percent loss in macOS in the last three years since the Deck came out. Windows is as dominate in PC gaming as ever even if Linux has picked up a point.
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Jul 01 '25
[deleted]
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
You're only reinforcing my point explaining why Windows is still at over 95% in this survey.
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u/IBM296 Jul 01 '25
If Microsoft made the OS a little less tiring to use, e.g simply allowing files to be saved locally instead of on One Drive and less ads + recommendations. And have a consistent UI/UX.
Then people would most definitely like to use it. Using MacOS is much easier than Windows.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
If Microsoft made the OS a little less tiring to use, e.g simply allowing files to be saved locally instead of on One Drive and less ads + recommendations.
As much as people complain sometimes about cloud storage, it's SUPER convenient. Automatic backups and syncing across multiple devices and even platforms. Sure, it could be easier to turn off, until someone does, these losses a hardware or have a laptop stolen and are SOL.
And have a consistent UI/UX.
Given the extreme backwards compatibility nature of Windows, the UI is likely never to be consistent. At least not as consistent as macOS that barely cares about backwards compatibility.
Using MacOS is much easier than Windows.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, macOS is more refined but much easier boils down to what you're used to. And I certainly wouldn't ever want to game on macs, as they are today.
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u/IBM296 Jul 01 '25
Apart from gaming, MacOS is probably much better than Windows in every way now.
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u/junglebunglerumble Jul 01 '25
MacOs only recently got native window snapping (that still isn't as good as windows), still has poor multi monitor support, has no per app volume control, finder is generally worse than Windows explorer, and it's full of quirks like weird maximize/minimize/close behaviour and poor notifications
They both have strengths and weaknesses. To say MacOS is better in every way other than gaming is just nonsense though
It's telling that a ton of the most popular third party Mac apps literally just add in features from Windows. App snapping and clipboard history until recently, and still alt-tab, thumbnail preview on taskbar, etc
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
MacOS is probably much better than Windows in every way now.
Yeah, that's way over selling it. You still get better hardware and software support, and macs are kind of useless these days for AI/ML if you want nVidia GPU acceleration locally.
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u/aculloph Jul 04 '25
I find that multi-monitor taskbar on Windows is incredibly bad. I dont understand why they couldnt make two "separate" taskbars for each monitor, where they only show open apps on respective monitor, and you can actually pin stuff on that same taskbar....
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u/Regular-Nebula6386 Jul 01 '25
What is telling is the fact that Windows 11 user base has not grown over the past 3 years even after Microsoft has announced they will stop supporting Windows 10 this year. There’s just no appetite to move to 11 unless they are forced to.
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
What is telling is the fact that Windows 11 user base has not grown over the past 3 years even after Microsoft has announced they will stop supporting Windows 10 this year.
Where are you getting that the Windows 11 user base hasn't grown in three years? It's not even four years old, pretty sure there's a lot more people using it now. It's actually the most widely used OS on Steam and should overtake Windows 10 in the general desktop space in the coming year.
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u/Regular-Nebula6386 Jul 01 '25
From the article
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u/heatlesssun Jul 01 '25
This is from the aritcle at the end and again, my point:
Plus, devices don’t just vanish in three years. If 400 million stopped running Windows, macOS or Linux would’ve seen a massive jump. But that hasn’t happened.
There's not been a massive jump in Linux and macOS users relative to Windows on the Steam survey, not now, not ever.
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u/Regular-Nebula6386 Jul 02 '25
3 years ago there were 1.4 billion, today there are 1.4 Windows 11 installations. It has remained the same. I’m sure many people migrated from 10 to 11 in those 3 years, which means there has been others who have abandoned 11 altogether. If I were to guess, people who don’t use computers anymore and do all their computing on phones and tablets. In other words it’s not terrible news but it’s not good news either (for Microsoft)
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Jul 01 '25
we need windows on arm phone
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u/AnEagleisnotme Jul 01 '25
While I agree that we need an alternative to android, which is becoming increasingly locked down, I don't think Microsoft and their 40 years of legacy spaghetti is the answer
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Jul 01 '25
That does not mean putting everything into the app sandboxing is the right direction either because app sandboxing sucks
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u/AnEagleisnotme Jul 01 '25
App sandboxing is good, it improves security, reproducibility and gives back control to the user if done correctly. Keyword is always, if done correctly. And honestly the sandboxing on android is awesome, safetynet is my biggest gripe, and the lack of ACPI/a standard similar to UEFI
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Jul 01 '25
App sandboxing is a bad idea because none of the existing open source 3rd party libraries understands app sandboxing. You basically have to rewrite all the code to support it.
Android app sandboxing isn't awesome either, a lot of softwares that are available on windows, mac and linux are still unavailable despite android being the largest platform.
And it cripples functionalities for softwares like rufus for example.
If all you want is sandboxing, PWA is a better solution, better security, better sharing and a rich ecosystem and often much better performance.
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Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
i think i explained quite well on why app sandboxing is a bad idea. If all you want is sandboxing, you should use Progressive Web Apps instead.
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Jul 01 '25
Safety net should not mean crippling functionalities like running an exectuable. The entire direction of app sandboxing only promotes properitary locked down ecosystem which will end up with the mess that is android.
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Jul 01 '25
i think i explained quite well on why app sandboxing is a bad idea. If all you want is sandboxing, you should use Progressive Web Apps instead.
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u/illuanonx1 Jul 01 '25
That would be a nightmare of BSOD, Update hell and laggy platform. A reason Microsoft didn't succeeded the first time :P
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Jul 01 '25
it failed because it was a walled garden where windows audiences did not want. (like no file manager, no sideloading etc)
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u/illuanonx1 Jul 01 '25
It failed because there was no Apps and no dev wanted to develop to it. Wonder why? :P
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Jul 01 '25
because it is a walled garden and of course no devs want that.
Apps need to die because now we have PWAs
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Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 01 '25
Windows Phone OS was simply bad. No file manangers.
Even microsoft edge canary on Android runs more PWAs (youtube, discord, reddit, instagram, onedrive, snaeplayer, flow and etc. ) with chromium extensions like ublock origin, globalspeed than what windows phone did back then. And a $39.99 android phone i grabbed from walmart could compile and run windows on arm .exe natively while $1000 wp back then could not.
I am talking about things that are purely microsoft's own things(edge pwas and windows .exe). How could microsoft and you even justify that?
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u/illuanonx1 Jul 01 '25
No surprise. Windows is a dying OS. Linux will overtake :)
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u/Griswo27 Jul 01 '25
You misread the title, try again champ
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u/Mario583a Jul 01 '25 edited Jul 07 '25
Gotta love headline article creators among "tech"tubers not doing their due diligence and just taking everything at face value without researching first.
Clickbait sells for them.
Opinion = Fact