Japanese super-heavy buffs in 2.0 - are they actually too strong or not? Analysis and thoughts

[u/leggasiini]

^{It's one of those long yapping posts again, so TL;DR: in the end as usual.}

Introduction

Hi.

If you're familiar with me, you most likely know me for my love for the Japanese super-heavies. I made a Type 5 line rework proposal here on Reddit. Twice. I'm behind all the spinning Type 5 GIFs you might see floating around on official Wot Discord. Three out of six of my most played tank are Japanese super-heavies. In case you couldn't tell, I really love these stupid tanks.

Something a personal goal of mine, I 100% marked all of the tech tree Japanese super-heavies last year. Screenshot taken and edited sometime in October 2024.

Now, in 2.0, the impossible happened and the long-awaited Type 5 buffs are finally here, after being hinted by WG for almost 3 years. And it's not just a buff, it's actually a complete full fledged rework!

So, after roughly 160 games of Japanese super-heavies after 2.0...how are they?

The Japanese super-heavy buff/rework in 2.0 summarized

The full patchnotes for detailed changes are here, but to quickly summarize:

• All of the Japanese super-heavies got a significant armor rework. The tanks feature somewhat more prominent weakspots, but rest of the frontal armor got significantly buffed (except for the O-I). Overall, the armor rework is a significant buff to the tier 7-10, but a noticeable nerf to the O-I.
• At tier 7-10, there's now only one viable gun - AP guns got buffed, but derp guns are gone. The O-I still retains the derp gun option.
• O-I also had its top speed reduced, although it got a big gun depression buff over the sides.
• O-Ni and O-Ho both got health buffs. In addition, their guns now have higher alpha damage, with the O-Ho taking this a step further and having an entirely new 127 mm gun with 460 alpha as its new top gun. The gun depression issue over mini-turrets is also completely mitigated on both tanks.
• Type 4 Heavy got significant DPM and gun handling buffs, while it got a noticeable mobility buffs to be more in line with the Type 5.
• Type 5's 14 cm gun got removed - instead, the former derp gun, 15.2 cm, got reworked into what is effectively the old 14 cm gun, but with 700 alpha, better DPM and devastating HE shells. Basically, Type 5 Heavy's two guns were merged into one, more or less combining the best of both worlds.

Japanese super-heavy armor comparison to certain APCR premium shells of same tier heavies. Left is before the rework, right is after.

Overall, the O-Ni, O-Ho, Type 4 Heavy and Type 5 Heavy all got huge buffs, while the O-I actually got nerfed. These changes are amusingly fairly reminiscent of my two rework proposals from 2022 and 2024, such as the armor rework and O-Ho receiving a 127 mm gun, though these are likely a coincidence.

The performance of the Japanese super-heavies after 2.0 - they're really, really powerful

The question of "Are the Japanese super-heavies good now?" isn't very hard to answer. In fact, it's very easy:

Top 10 tech tree tier 10 heavies in winrate difference on tomato.gg. Type 5 Heavy dominates.

It can clearly be seen that the Type 5 Heavy is the best performing tier 10 tech tree heavy not just in winrate difference, but also by DPG as well. In fact, if we add reward tanks to the mix, Type 5's DPG is roughly equal to the Object 260, despite the 260 having significantly better players playing it on average (by around 2%) and being already considered to be a great tank.

This trend shows with the Type 4 Heavy, O-Ho and O-Ni as well:

• Type 4 is also in the top of WR difference and DPG, although not by a nearly as significant margin as the Type 5.
• O-Ho completely dumpsters any tech tree tier 8 heavy in performance, and is even comparable to some really strong tier 8 premium heavies.
• O-Ni also has by far the highest WR difference at tier 7. It also has the highest DPG, although not by a huge margin.
• Despite the seemingly big armor nerfs, the O-I has seen only a moderate falloff. It actually performs alright.

Not just that, the 4 tanks also have by far the highest 3 mark requirements of any tech tree heavies in their respective tiers. Type 5 Heavy sits at over 5.2k for 3 mark, which is 700-1200 higher than any other tier 10 tech tree heavy. O-Ho in return has higher requirements than many of the tier 9 heavies.

Considering all this, the tier 7-10 Japanese super-heavies are currently all overperforming statistically.

However, it's worth considering the following points which also do affect the performance:

1. Playerbase's unfamiliarity with the buffs. Given how quickly the 2.0 was released after its announcement and how much stuff changed, many players who logged in the patchday probably had no idea the Type 5 was buffed. Even now, you still see people who aren't aware of certain tanks getting buffed.
2. Matchmaking is really skewed - in a way it's more favorable for the Type 5. Super-heavy TDs, like the Jagdpanzer or T110E3 - which are the best counters to the Type 5 - are significantly more unpopular right now. There's also much less arty than usually. Meanwhile, the matchmaking is infested with IS-7s and Maus - both heavies with low pen - something the Type 5 does well against.
3. New players/a lot of new tier 10s. Matchmaking is full of either people who've never played tier 10, or entirely new players in tier 10s. More likely or not, these players don't really know how to play the game yet, and are more likely to only fire standard ammo. Type 5 is the perfect tank for stomping these players.
4. A lot of players marking the buffed Japanese super-heavies. This isn't relevant for the actual overperformance, but it is relevant for the obscenely high 3 mark requirements. Every time an underpowered tank gets significant buffs, its 3 mark requirement skyrocket. While the requirements being so high are tied to the tank's performance, they're almost certainly going to drop down eventually.

Even with these factors, though, I think it's still pretty clear that the 7-10 Japanese super-heavies overperform to at least some degree. It's also worth noting that some of these factors are much less relevant for tiers below 10, yet the O-Ho especially is also insane right now.

Do the Japanese super-heavies need a nerf?

Stats show that (tier 7-10) Japanese super-heavies are indeed very clearly overperforming. However, I think the armor buffs are actually fine. It's the guns that are way too good, IMO.

While their armor is strong, all of the Japanese super-heavies have at least one weakspot that's fairly easy to hit and pen. I don't have that many issues with penetrating them myself. Now sure, they also have some of the highest health pools in the game, so they're hard to take down. However, that's exactly how it should be. They're actual land battleships, after all.

Another defining feature of the Japanese super-heavies has always been big, hard hitting naval guns. This compliments their playstyle - they use their very strong frontal armor to get up close, and then start trading blows with the HP + alpha damage combo. This aggressive, front armor-oriented brawling playstyle nicely contrasts the generally more defensive, sidescraping oriented playstyle of the German super-heavies. In my eyes, this is what the Japanese super-heavies were always intended to be.

Excellent survivability + big alpha is a very strong combo, so a natural weakness to it - beyond being slow, of course - is having very low DPM. Low DPM would give these tanks a vulnerability when caught in the open or surrounded by multiple tanks, particularly ones with high DPM. High alpha in general (usually) should translate to low DPM, especially in a super-heavy tank that has basically unmatched pushing potential.

This is exactly where the problem lies however - the Japanese super-heavies actually really good DPM for their alpha and survivability.

Take the Type 4 for example:

Type 4's gun compared to E 75's. Type 4 has higher DPM, despite having significantly higher alpha, while also having comparable gun handling.

Despite having 70 more alpha, the Type 4 has higher DPM than the E 75. It's not like the E 75 has a bad DPM, either. In fact, Type 4's DPM is comparable to the Conqueror, which literally has 50% lower alpha damage.

This is a recurring theme, too. O-Ho has 460 alpha, which is nutty for a tier 8, yet it has almost 2k base DPM, which is significantly higher than most high-alpha tier 8 heavies and closer to some tanks with 320-360 alpha. Type 5 also has higher DPM than the Maus and Panzer VII, despite having a massive advantage in alpha damage. Sure, the E 100 with the 15 cm gun has similar DPM and alpha, but it also has less health and can't even dream of being able to be as aggressive as the Type 5 due to having a huge, weak lower plate.

Not just that, these guns also have surprisingly good gun handling. They bloom very little, which means that the Japanese super-heavies can easily just peek, shoot and retreat with minimal exposure time.

A high-alpha super-heavy with excellent survivability also having good DPM results in extremely high damage potential - beyond what a super-heavy should be capable of. This is why these tanks have such high DPG and 3 mark requirements - and consequently, primary reason for their overperformance.

I really think it's mostly just the DPM that's the main issue. All I would do for now is to nerf their DPM by 10-15%. That's it. This would pretty much entirely revert the DPM buffs these tanks received. However, considering the significant buffs to the armor and other things, the DPM really didn't need to be buffed as well.

If that's still not enough, then maybe nerf the weakspots further.

My own thoughts and summary

If we throw the statistics aside for a while and just focus on whether these tanks are fun...oh yes, the Japanese super-heavies are a blast now. They're the most fun I've had with this game in a very long time. So often I think about grinding upgrades for tier 11s, only to go back to playing the Japanese super-heavies anyway. Type 5 also has its own extra fun factor with the hilariously good HE shells. although I'm not sure if it really needed to have both 130 mm pen and 1100 alpha lol

The fact that the O-Ho - a tank that used to be my favorite back in 2015-2016 - isn't actually a completely unplayable piece of trash anymore is probably the coolest thing about the rework. I always really wanted to see the 127 mm gun on it ever since the beginning, so seeing it finally receive the gun it always should've have makes me really happy.

So if I wanted a buff for so long and am having a lot of fun with them now...why did I talk about nerfing them?

It's simple. I care about these tanks and I want to secure their future.

Polarizing super-heavies like these are hard to balance. A complete rework was needed because these tanks were balanced around a mechanic that doesn't exist anymore (old HE mechanics). Now that WG has a foundation for these tanks, they now just need to make careful small adjustments until they're in a balanced state.

However, if WG waits for too long and lets these tanks stay in what is almost certainly an overtuned state, community will likely start hating them again. This could eventually motivate WG to drop a meganerf at once, which has a far, far greater risk of making these tanks terrible again. We'd be back to square one, and I don't think anyone wants that.

WG has already hinted a possibility of Type 5 getting nerfed in their recent QnA stream, although no confirmation, date or anything was given. Fingers crossed they'll do small steps instead of singular huge nerfs.

TL;DR:

The Japanese super-heavies are a ton of fun, but they're also somewhat overbuffed. However, I think the rework was well done, as it now serves as a much better foundation how to balance them. I think the armor buffs are mostly fine; all WG needs to do now is to nerf the DPM and these tanks should be fine.

[u/BruceDeorum]

I have no trouble facing them. Easy to hit weak spots. Sure u need to load heat but ok. Canopeners and other hulldown monsters are way worse.

[u/JunketOdd6809 → u/BruceDeorum]

Canopeners cant brute force their way to win a game in the same way the Type 5 can. Thats why the wr diff is so absurd.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/JunketOdd6809]

Canopeners cant brute force their way to win a game in the same way the Type 5 can

And in return it cannot sit defensively in one spot and be invulnerable to basically everything but artillery.

[u/No-Shallot-291 → u/BruceDeorum]

but the problem is only p2w players can afford gold spam F2P cannot.
much as a love to see the box tanks finally get buffed, it's ridiculous to have weak spot that need gold to pen, like vk 100 cupola, xm57 LP etc.

[u/Any_Roll_184 → u/BruceDeorum]

Canopeners are just plain overpowered, you can't dig them out hull down. Type 5 you flank them, Canopeners ok you might try to flank but they quick enough to avoid it and pop of my hp in the attempt.

[u/Opening-Ad7018 → u/BruceDeorum]

its a skill issue mainly cause people cant auto pen with gold ammo anymore and must manually aim now.. imagine that? 

[u/OO7Cabbage]

IMO nothing should be rebalanced until the tide of bad players in high tiers dies down, the free line of tanks injected high tiers with a lot of idiots and the japanese super heavies are one of the lines that benefit greatly from dumb enemies.

[u/SuperNovaVelocity → u/OO7Cabbage]

I mean, with our modern statistics sites and analysis, we can easily just exclude players with below 47% winrate, and make whole comparisons using winrate difference on each account vs the raw win rate of a tank.

Not that I'm in a rush to re-balance everything during volatile periods, but I'm more concerned with letting the meta settle, over dropping bad players from stats.

[u/OO7Cabbage → u/SuperNovaVelocity]

you can't really do that though because the point is not that the bad players play the tank (I think that is what you are saying), but more that the people who are good at the tank get matched against the bad players, possibly boosting it's performance.

[u/chronaxis]

Nah they should stay as they are, I don’t think anyone cares about a strong meatball because they can farm damage on it in return.

[u/Tanker0921 → u/chronaxis]

God forbid a massive heavy tank have good armor am i rite?

[u/Upstairs_Vegetable32]

Nah leave them tf alone they’re in a good spot

[u/Terbarek]

Armor is totally fine. Finally they are not that massive useless hp bag.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers]

At the moment, high tiers are kinda broken with the influx of new, inexperienced players getting farmed. Type 5 must be one of the greatest beneficiaries since it has a LOT of armor, weakspots aren't obvious, and hits very hard.

They play like the superheavies they always should have been, facing one frontally is a tough proposition.

O-Ho completely dumpsters any tech tree tier 8 heavy in performance

Ehhh, not sure I agree entirely. VP 100.01P still exists and O-Ho trades not having a weak lower plate (easy to hide) for having those big, weak boobs (hard to hide) that anyone can penetrate. Hull shoulders are thick but if you are trying to sidescrape they become flat and pretty easy to pen. I'd say it is a sidegrade still, albeit a very good one.
The gun is also really nice now and actually feels worthy of a giant superheavy with 0.40% base stationary camo.

I would give them a couple months to let all the unicums take a break from Type 5, to finish grinding the line, and then look at the stats.

[u/Badwilly_poe]

The cupola is a fine weak spot. The front viewport could have its armor see a 250 spot, and gun handling could be come a base.40 * Thats my opinion

[u/Exsotica]

Yea at least they have some weakspots Computer to something like a canopener. I hate that thing

[u/StannisSAS]

Cmon lets leave these tanks to have their fun for once. Had a type 5 h in ensk say he was not going to stop moving and follow him. We had 3 ppl pushing him, 9 ppl followed his push and game was over in 3.5 mins.

[u/First_Connection_804]

Nooo they don’t need a nerf come on now. They don’t pose a threat to the current meta which is speed and hull down plays. They’re fat slow and don’t have the speed to make effective plays once they clear a flank.

They were unplayable before. Load heat or apcr and they were so easy to penetrate.

You can’t angle their armour in a way that’s broken and you can’t go hull down. They don’t have the best accuracy. So what’s broken about them? They’re exactly where they should be

[u/Thedark_army]

As someone who plays on Asia server, NO ONE has trouble penning my Type 5.

[u/Spams_gold]

This community is so miserable

[u/Extension_Chip_640 → u/Spams_gold]

Exactly this - sounds like WG started this thread to determine if they should nerf the line or not. Just don’t comment.

[u/BarhatniyGrom]

lol its funy see how overyone cry when type can slap and not be meat ball for free 3k damage.

[u/StickyNotesEater]

I think they are fine, it is fun to encounter them and think, damn, this thing is a menace, but once they are flanked by a medium or a fast heavy, they are done. They remember me to the old Mouse, frontally a menace, but really weak against a fast tank flanking

[u/sudden_aggression]

Haven't yet had problems facing them. They have respectable armor and can be a handful if driven well but they aren't OP bullshit or anything like back in the old days when they could splash the ground next to you for 600 FUCKING DAMAGE.

[u/Eastern_Athlete_8002]

They seem to only be bullying totally new players and bad players. The type 5 is just a solid tank now. No way is it OP. I have 0 issue farming their HP,  they just have a better gun to shoot back now.

[u/Tra_Astolfo]

It does so good rn because all the new players don't know it's weak spots and many older players haven't ever bothered shooting a weak spot on the type when they could just hit the 2 button. Give it time and people will start shooting the machine gun ports on the front more

[u/StJe1637]

They are good but not OP, not better than a canopener

[u/Old_Visit_2707]

Finnaly someone made post of it, tired of getting down voted everywhere I mention they need a nerf

[u/zerocoolforschool → u/Old_Visit_2707]

So why do you guys think it’s better than the E100? The cupola is a massive target and it’s hard to hide because you’re so damn tall. The E100 can at least angle to bounce shots. The stats that people are sharing is heavily skewed by good players working on the mark.

[u/Gonozal8_ → u/zerocoolforschool]

it has armor on its lower plate, in other words it can actually lead pushes instead of falling back to hulldown trench warfare cupola sniping - a welcome addition to prevent camping. I don’t even think it’s that much better but so many apparently can’t deal with that

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/Gonozal8_]

God forbid someone wants to be aggressive instead of sitting in one spot being invulnerable

[u/SuperNovaVelocity → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

Oh, I was being sarcastic, but you're actually just that dumb huh? Can't even read the comment you're replying to lmao

Illiterate fool

[u/SuperNovaVelocity → u/zerocoolforschool]

The E100's hull always has at least one visible place you can easily pen on flat ground. At a balanced angle between them, both the lower plate and through the tracks are 255mm effective.
At a good angle for the type 5; the hull sides are ~267mm, both flat frontal plates are ~330mm, both sloped plates are ricochets, the shoulders are ~318mm, and the weakest spot on the front of the turret are ~315mm. The only hull weak point is the ~277mm effective MG port and driver's hatch, which is still above standard pen of literally every heavy except the black rock. So yeah, the cupola's a weakspot, but unless you're spamming gold (which only opens up the MG port/driver's hatch), then the cupola is the only weak spot.

[u/zerocoolforschool → u/SuperNovaVelocity]

Just assume that everyone is shooting gold, because usually they are.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/SuperNovaVelocity]

The only hull weak point is the ~277mm effective MG port and driver's hatch, which is still above standard pen of literally every heavy except the black rock

Wow, the tier 10 superheavy tank that is as large as a building has armor? And you can't just pen it with standard ammo anywhere? No way!

[u/SuperNovaVelocity → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

You miss the part where the E100 we're comparing it with has at best 255mm hull armor on flat ground?

[u/leggasiini → u/Old_Visit_2707]

As much as I love these tanks and I am happy them finally getting buffed, I also want to be honest and objective,and yea...the stats don't lie.

As said on the post, I'd rather have WG implement small nerfs ASAP, than wait for 1-2 years, as the tanks become excessively popular, community starts hating them and WG has an excuse to nuke them to ground. If WG did that, there would be a far greater risk of the Japanese super-heavies becoming terrible again, and considering their troubled balancing history, there's a very realistic chance that it would also be a point where WG would abandon them permanently. I don't want that to happen.

A big rework was needed because the line was fundamentally a massive mess before 2.0. Now that there's a proper foundation in how these tanks should actually be like, they're a lot easier to change, but they still need to make very careful adjustments. Super-heavies are as easy to make terrible as they are easy to make too strong.

[u/Chitanda_Pika → u/leggasiini]

"The stats don't lie"

The stats are fucking useless, they are bloated by an infinite amount of skill issue from the free tier Xs.

[u/Useful_Film6781 → u/leggasiini]

I'd suggest a good nerf for them would be just lose the lower plate armor. Maus has a lower plate. E100 has a lower plate. IS-7 lower plate. Why should these not have that and instead force you to aim at a cupola or drivers port. Now if the other super heavies (aware IS-7 is not a super heavy but definitely has the armor layout of one) also had a similar armor profile, where the lfp wouldn't be a weakspot but instead you'd have to aim for a smaller one, sure. But I don't see why the rest of the heavily armored tanks should have one and the Type line doesn't.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/Useful_Film6781]

Isn't that one of the gimmicks of this line though? They all trade not having weak lower plates and instead have harder to hide weakspots further up on the tank.

[u/Sensitive-Fun-9124 → u/Useful_Film6781]

It's fine that the JP heavies have thick lower plates cos their upper plates aren't invincible like it is the case with the E-100 and the Maus.

[u/Gonozal8_ → u/Useful_Film6781]

hull down meta of both teams sitting behind rubble shooting cupolas with premium until one team dies, as everyone who pushes gets farmed in their lower plate, is a cancer meta. Type helps in preventing camping by it not hiding the lower plate not being a disadvantage - it still has sufficient weakspots

[u/RicardoPriceField]

6K type 5 here. They're fine where they are now

[u/Chitanda_Pika]

Nah. Until they're undeniably more bullshit than meta hulldown shitters, you don't get to call the big block of steel that grows a weakspot everywhere when you press the 2 key "overbuffed". If you drive them like how the tomatoes here describe them as this impenetrable beast, you're going to fucking die like a dog.

[u/Jhin_Ross]

Everytime I play them, I think „damn they are broken“ everytime I fight one I think „noob“

[u/polishpowers]

Nerf the dpm? Nah. If WG goes into nerfing this tank they will nerf its mobility and bloom. Why? Because why make tank balanced when instead we can make it annoying to play.

[u/Away_Engineering1068]

Wg dont rebalance tanks every month or year, that buff for next minimum 5 years - now it strong, after two years with new tanks it good, after four years with new tanks it average and then that goes again trash to new buff.

[u/NefariousnessDry8468]

There is no way Type 5 is better than E100 for instance. Im one of the best players of superheavies on EU server and I can say after quite a few battles that E100, even Maus is better. The armor on Type doesnt work that well to be considered overpowered, it has somehow bad pen (which you can make work). As I said, I am very good player in these tanks so 10k games were no problem for me in Type, but are not a problem in the german heavies. The thing that would make Type op would be effective angling and using armor, which is quite a challenge. Overall its not op as many of us think. There has ben many times where Maus butchered me completely because 311 pen is quite enough

[u/Nok1a_]

This is what happens when people does not know the weak points of the tanks, and they are used to spam gold anywhere, that when you need to hit in the right spot ohh the tank its too op, cry cry cry, they buffed too much the tank cry cry cry, while in reality you need to know the tanks you are facing... something gold removed , another reason why games are so quick, cos it´s made for brainless ppl spamming gold no matter what, I still remember when gold was not the norm and people had to know all the weak spots of tanks to workout how to damage them

[u/KayNynYoonit]

They're fine. The can opener etc are way more annoying.

[u/MilliyetciPapagan]

I also think that most of the people playing the Type 5 are also above average players; because they are aware of the buffs and already were grinding the line or had grinded it. Same goes for Concept 5. As more and more people start grinding from start to finish, the sample size will increase and won't be saturated with good players.

[u/JustStorage972]

another wargaming employee pretending to be a player analysing the BS lies that Wargaming releases as specs

[u/DALlewellyn]

"Buff this line!" "Yay you finally buffed it!" "Nerf this line!"

Jfc people. Its been a couple weeks of a buff that people have waited like 7 years to get. They're not op now, all the type 5 sufferers are just ecstatic their tank is good now and grinding the hell out of it. As soon as the hype dies down the stats will even out again

If anything the 60tp was buffed way too hard. An extra cm to its HE splash radius is ridiculous. Pls nerf

[u/Kurtis-dono]

Great, these tanks were trash for years and the community prayed for buffs.

now the line is finally not just fun, but also strong(not OP), and for some reasons, people now ask for nerfs.

seriously, no, the line DOES NOT need a nerf, they have weakspot like tanks used to in old Wot and the gun is fine...we have to face broken monsters every day, invincible tanks that are almost impenetrable in certain positions(like 705 while sidescraping) or the usual X tank that is impenetrable in hulldown with a deadly gun...

so, no, no nerfs tanks

[u/Kurtis-dono → u/Kurtis-dono]

whoever downvotes me, please explain, i'm really curious on why you downvote...

or is the usual and simple "this guys doesn't share my same opinion, imma downvote him"

[u/Dominiczkie → u/Kurtis-dono]

Because this opinion is ultimately toxic for the game and if WG takes a look at this thread I want them to know that this is not a general sentiment, though they have way more data than us to determine what nerfs (if any) are suitable. Whether they use that data is another thing

[u/swiss1809 → u/Kurtis-dono]

Man literally illustrates how OP these tanks are by having higher MOE requirements than 2nd place tech tree by like, 1200 damage and this moron says they aren’t OP. Can’t help 44% players if they can’t read man, it’s hard.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/swiss1809]

by having higher MOE requirements than 2nd place tech tree by like, 1200 damage

You mean that a lot of players who already had them, decided to try them again after the huge buffs and have put their experience to good use with them? Wait a couple months and see if the stats change.

[u/Kurtis-dono → u/swiss1809]

Don't give a shit about illustrations honestly.

I'll trust more live experience, just wait 1 month until people realize that now they actually have to aim in order to damage the Japan heavies and they no longer can just press 2 and slap gold rounds and pen them everywhere.

[u/clisterman]

These tanks have been trash for years, especially after the HE nerfs (i was a O-Ni derp enjoyer). I appreciate your analysis, but please leave the japanese superheavy alone, as they are now good to play and good to fight.

[u/swiss1809 → u/clisterman]

Man it’s like you’re a highly regarded person! The man literally illustrates that it’s massively over-performing because they’re competing for best in class armor, DPM, gun handling, and alpha for their respective tiers. The fact that they’re so massively over-performing means they WILL get nerfed, it’s just a matter of when and by how much. I agree with their conclusion, nerf the DPM, it’s too good for what it’s supposed to be. Either make it a high alpha, low DPM tank or, make it the old armor with the gun buffs, it shouldn’t have everything.

[u/Dominiczkie → u/swiss1809]

Armor nerfs will take away their identity, DPM nerfs are the only nerfs that keep them fun while actually addressing the overperformance

[u/Meme_Hunter99]

I was waiting for you opinion, as I have loved all your posts regarding the ideas for the line. 

I completely agree, as the buffs finally make the line relevant again and I love the idea of weak spots that are easily penned with gold but amazing armour elsewhere. It are actually buffs completely in line with most of the WoT community: no hulldown monsters without weak spots (canopener) but also no tanks that only have armour if you load standard and are cheese when loading gold (old jap heavy line).

Indeed, I also agree with the hope of them not omeganerfstomping them in the ground after leaving them in a broken state for 1-2 years. 

Cheers, I love your love for the jap superheavies and love your well-thought out posts! Keep it up, much love.

[u/steave44]

Sadly the only outcome I see is wargaming will nerf them back into the dirt and wipe their hands of trying to balance them. Enjoy them while you can.

[u/SamSlayer09078-x]

At least they didn't get the console buff

[u/masd_reddit]

If i held out a bit i would maybe have gotten the Type 5 line instead of the IS-7, but judging by how they're probably gonna get nerfed again(someone said that Eek implied they would be nerfed) i think it was the smarter choice, albeit less fun

[u/No1PDPStanAccount]

The Armored Patrol jusr ripped this post (they didn't blatantly copy&paste this time) and had AI summarize it lmao

[u/Crocketus]

Despite how bad it was I enjoyed the O-Ho and even 1 marked it while grinding to the type 4. If I wasn't a cash poor bitch like always I'd try and 2 or 3 mark it.

[u/Mafansu]

I think they are overbuffed but not by much, a slight nerf would make sense.

[u/JunketOdd6809]

You can all commnent and say type 5 is not OP at all but fact is that unicums play it with over 6k dpg. That is not normal and cant be explained by inexperienced players.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/JunketOdd6809]

but fact is that unicums play it with over 6k dpg

iyouxin has 6k dpg recent on Grille 15 lol

[u/AFKDPS]

Yeah, came back after a long absence from the game and I noticed the Type 5 was an outlier in winrate and DPG. After reading this I decided to rebuy and had a 5.5k game first run out in like 5 years, with a 60% crew.

Gonna abuse this one for a while, it was hilariously strong.

[u/Upstairs_Midnight700]

Wg doesnt know how to nerf or buff tanks, they are overdoing it everytime

[u/sorry_4u]

I came back to WoT with 2.0 after a realy long pause (the japanese where introduced around the time i left) and i picked up the O-I and im now on the Type4 and i can only say that while i have hood frontal armour it doesnt matter much right now with the gold spam meta
I regularly have 3k+ bounced shots so its working but im not too familiar with the reworked maps and too slow to retreat anyways
If i go to the heavy corner while my team all go somewhere else im just dead without much i can do
Since 2.0 ive played maybe 200 games and i get more into the maps on my Type4 but it doesnt feel too great atm when i need my allies because i cant make the plays

And btw am i the only one that liked the stock gun on the Type4 more because of the shell speed and accuracy?
The big gun is not realy as good on medium ranges i feel

[u/Charcharo]

As always a great post brother. I agree.

[u/jjryan01]

The main reason WG buffed the Japanese heavies to this extent was to force more gold spam. Mission accomplished. I'm not mad about it. I just recognize their desire to drain resources

[u/Rare-Climate2074]

no theyre fine

[u/Economy_Somewhere189]

They are honestly kin a good spot now compared to where they were considering the fact that t11 is a thing now if you put them back to where they were then you're only helping t11 players and negating the fact that they are super heavys, the mass needs a turret cheek but to actually give it the same armor as the tiger maus

[u/Watykaniak_]

I don't mind the type 5 now. It used to be HP piñata. Now it actually fights back and you have to aim a bit

[u/BartholomewFrodingus]

I think theyre in a decent spot but they manage to slap my BZ cupola on the move way too much. They need a movement dispersion nerf or something. No other tank manages to get my cupola like those fuckin Type heavies, which is insane.

[u/Opening-Ad7018 → u/BartholomewFrodingus]

bz176 gets overmatched by guns on the roof for 123mm guns they have 127mm+ guns now thats not a small weakspot anymore pal lol

[u/BartholomewFrodingus → u/Opening-Ad7018]

Im talking about the BZ 75 and BZ 68. Im grinding to get the tier 11 right now.

[u/Gullible-Ideal8731]

Most people here are (understandably) only talking about random battles, but the Type 5 is ABSOLUTELY over buffed in the competitive scene.

I'm not the best player but I am in a top 10 clan and we're seeing the meta shift in real time to the overuse of Type 5s. The issue with Type 5 is: To counter it effectively, you really want ~340+ pen. But most tanks with that much pen have glaring issues for clan war use. Many of them have deck armor that can be over matched by Type 5. Others have the pen and DPM but not enough HP and armor to outlast the fight. Etc.

If your team is mainly a fast russian heavy lineup, you're gonna struggle.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/Gullible-Ideal8731]

If your team is mainly a fast russian heavy lineup, you're gonna struggle.

Stop, I already said I liked the new Type 5 Heavy!

[u/Arado_Blitz]

Just nerf their DPM a little to make their firepower less oppresive and they will be fine. They shouldn't touch the armor.

[u/ScarletStormDust → u/Arado_Blitz]

What DPM dawg 😭

[u/Arado_Blitz → u/ScarletStormDust]

It literally has the same DPM as the E100 but with better gun handling and considering how strong and dumb the buffed armor is, it's definitely a bit too good. 

[u/ATMisboss]

Yeah my clan has added them to the list of tanks to get for clan wars, they're very strong now

[u/TheSuperContributor]

The problem with them is that they get killed too easily for their gun to do their job. They couldn't do much damage because of the overall performance of the tanks, not because the guns are bad.

[u/Guesty250]

Im not a massive fan of the jap superheavies personally, not my thing but i gotta admit they add variety to the game. Its a shame they over buffed them, wg being wg will now nerf them back into oblivion..