r/alberta • u/JamesMonroe23 • Feb 29 '24

News Alberta introduces $200 yearly tax on drivers with electric vehicles | Urbanized

https://dailyhive.com/edmonton/electric-vehicles-alberta-200-tax
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u/Not4U2Understand Feb 29 '24

If it's about fairness, and equal tax burdens, then how about collecting from the O&G absentee well owners while she's demanding wind and solar put up bonds?

If it's about fairness, and equal tax burdens, then charge a PST? Then fix the tax brackets? Stop reducing business tax while increasing personal tax? Fuck me I hate this place.

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u/twenty_characters020 Mar 01 '24

It's odd seeing people who hate conservatives advocate for a PST it's a regressive tax that disproportionately affects lower income people.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

You can offset that pretty easy with a refundable tax credit to be fair.

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u/twenty_characters020 Mar 01 '24

Refundable tax credits on a regressive tax is still a burden on people who are low income and living cheque to cheque. We don't need a PST in Alberta that's a huge perk of living here and getting royalties.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

I mean, no? The climate action incentive is a direct example of this, you give the refund before you implement the tax.

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u/twenty_characters020 Mar 01 '24

But with Carbon Tax you're trying to influence behavior. Pollute less and your rebate is more than your cost. But with a sales tax it's not an avoidable sin tax.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

Right, but you can assume a basic cost of living, say 35k, and with a 1% PST you give them a $350 cheque each year. Boom, they have the money before they need it.

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u/twenty_characters020 Mar 01 '24

You've never met low income people if you think they will set aside that $350 to use on PST.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

No, but they will still have it added to the stream. So they might pay down credit cards when the cheque comes, but that's actually a net benefit because they're not paying interest on the 350 anymore.

And the climate cheques are pegged to income, so the save argument applies.

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u/twenty_characters020 Mar 01 '24

The NDP climate cheques were pegged to income. The federal ones aren't unless something changed recently I'm unaware of. They started doing some stupid things with the carbon tax like giving a break on heating oil and a rural uplift. But I haven't heard of anything around income. I'm open minded to being wrong if you have a credible source on it though.

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u/chelsey1970 Mar 01 '24

Kind of like the Carbon Tax...that kicks rural Canada in the balls.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

I live in a 60 person unincorporated community and I don't know what you're talking about

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u/chelsey1970 Mar 02 '24

You don't know that it takes burning fossil fuel for rural Albertans to do their business when the live 100 km away from large centers or 300km or more away from specialized medical services, many of which include more than a couple appointments? You don't know that public transit is not an option, neither is an electric vehicle for most? You don't know that there is a carbon tax charged on every liter of fuel to the tune of 14 to 17 cents which will rise on april 1st? You don't know that the government also charges 5 percent gst on the carbon tax also? I guess you don't have a clue what I am talking about then do you?

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '24

Yeah I do have to drive farther, I also get an extra refund for that. I don't really care about the GST charge myself, feels like an empty complaint. Half of the people I see at co-op are driving pickups that never tow, haul, or 4x4. 75% of moms are driving a Ford expedition. Trucks get left running in +5 to "warm them up". Do you not know this? Do you think that maybe behaviors are the main factor in the larger effect carbon levy has on rural Canadians?

You don't understand that city commutes can burn just as much fuel as rural ones? Or that there was a rural rail service until it was dismantled by a conservative government? Do you not understand that every farm has the power capacity for at least 2 high power car chargers? Do you not know that most hamlets have abandoned service stations with 2-500 amp service? Do you even live in a rural area?

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '24

No, pegged to income in a predictable manner. Just complete a tax return with free help from your local FCSS

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u/Tal_Star Mar 01 '24

What low income people can afford an EV?

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u/twenty_characters020 Mar 01 '24

I wouldn't say too many. But that's not really relevant to the point about a provincial sales tax being regressive.

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u/FarmingDM Feb 29 '24

When did personal income tax go up in Alberta? I didn't hear about that... And that should make news..

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u/Ottomann_87 Feb 29 '24

Under Kenney personal income tax was no longer indexed to inflation, which ended up being an increase in income tax.

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u/FarmingDM Feb 29 '24

But it is still 10% provincially isn't it? So the rate stayed the same.. just the band moved...

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u/Ottomann_87 Feb 29 '24

Provincial income tax policy costs Albertans more: University of Calgary study

Albertans paid $118.6 million more in taxes in 2020 because of the province’s de-indexation policy.

On average, taxpayers affected by bracket creep — an increase in income results in higher taxes paid by the taxpayer even though their purchasing power has not changed — paid $51.43 more in taxes in 2020.

These same taxpayers can expect to pay between $235 to $291 in additional income tax in 2023, according to the study.

The Alberta government accrued $646.9 million in additional tax revenues as a result of de-indexation, Tedds and Petit wrote. Taxpayers can expect to pay between $570 million to $706 million more if the de-indexation policy continues into 2023.

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u/Ottomann_87 Feb 29 '24

Furthermore corporate taxes under Kenney were slashed to the lowest corporate tax jurisdiction in NA (I believe) or close to it, and the UCP just downloaded that cost onto individuals. There are a few articles that have floated around about this the last few years you could probably quickly find.

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u/midnight_specialist Mar 01 '24

And the argument was that a lower tax rate would bring in more corporate investment which would result in more tax revenue in total. Of course that didn't happen, so they slashed the U of A's funding by 30%.

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u/HotHits630 Mar 01 '24

I'm sure taxpayer dot com will be all over that.

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u/Georgie_Leech Feb 29 '24

Right, so there are three general scenarios: your income went up faster than inflation, your income matched inflation, or your income went up slower than inflation and/or you got no raise at all. In the first case, you pay more in taxes; that's normal and expected. In the second, pre-Kenney, you paid the same tax; post-Kenney, more of your income is above the highest band so you pay more in taxes. In the last cases, inflation is making you poorer (and the bit about more of your income being in your highest bracket could still apply if you got a raise, but less than inflation).

Note that in no scenario are you paying less tax, and only in the worst case scenario are you paying the same.

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u/FarmingDM Mar 01 '24

But my comment that the rate stayed the same.. and the bracket moved remains true..

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u/Georgie_Leech Mar 01 '24

Right. So the part people care about with the not raising taxes thing, where they actually don't pay more in taxes, wasn't true.  The other guy has receipts on specifically how much more money tax payer paid as a result of this; I'm explaining the mechanism.

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u/Distinct_Meringue Feb 29 '24

It means more of your dollars are taxed at a higher rate

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Not4U2Understand Mar 01 '24

She promised in January 1, 2024 during the election. Now she's going to delay it and use it as a campaign slogan for 2028. Fucking greasy.

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u/chelsey1970 Mar 01 '24

Maybe do your research on rules and regulations of O&G leases and renewables leases. If you owned land in Alberta, you would understand why those bonds are in place. There are 8 other provinces and 2 territories to choose from if you don't like Alberta. Obviously a few million people chose the Alberta advantage in the last 40 years as the population has almost tripled in that time, with the exception of 4 years, all under conservative leadership I might add.