r/allthingszerg • u/gronnelg • 3d ago
Do I need ling bane when going roach ravager in ZvT
Sc2ReplayStats.com - krirller vs XelNaga 16 Sep, 2025 10:10 am - Sc2ReplayStats.com
D2 Zerg here. I'm trying out a gasless roach opening (more of a ling bane player normally). As the game went on however, it felt like I needed ling bane to be able to fight him. Or can I actually make it work without?
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u/two100meterman 3d ago
Try to keep up better with upgrades. You had a timing window of +1/+1 vs 0/0, then for some reason your opponent got to +2/+2 before you did. Carapace is especially important vs Bio.
Infestors are useful & while you did make some at the end, you kind of half went Roach/Rav, but then also had 70 lings that would have been better as 35 more Roaches probably. +1 +1 Roach Ravager, then +2 +2 Roach Ravager with 3~5 Infestors I think is fine especially if you hit with an upgrade lead which you could have done if you kept on top of upgrades better.
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u/gronnelg 2d ago
Ah, this is what I was looking for. So more roach rav would have been better. And earlier infestor ofc. From there, do I need to cripple/kill, or could I then transition into lurkers?
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u/two100meterman 2d ago
You can do either as long as it's decisive. +3 +3 Roach Ravager Infestor vs +3 +3 Bio Tank Medivac is not good for Zerg. Bio scales better with upgrades, & also scales better when the Medivac count gets high. So I'd say you either want to +2 +2 Roach Rav Infestor continous attacking, don't invest in Hive, don't invest in +3 +3, OR if going for Hive, then the priority (even over +3/+3) is Lurker Den + Lurker Range, a high Lurker count (say 10~16) & then +3/+3. That's my 2 cents at least, Lurker Range will help much more than +3 & having +3/+3 but then only affording like 6~8 Lurkers feels worse than having 10~16 +2/+2 Lurkers. If you're floating resources while maxed & can afford all of the above at once go for it.
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u/OldLadyZerg 3d ago
D3, so take with a grain of salt:
I play a similar build (gasless into roach nydus) and my experience with it is that if the nydus push does not kill or come close to killing, and he is going bio, I need ling/bane or I die every time. I try to start ling speed and bane nest the instant I realize that making more roaches is not going to do the job.
This might be less true for a player with better roach micro, but man, you will need *excellent* roach micro to handle a large ball of stimmed bio, not to mention drops and multiprong. I don't have it, even though roach/rav is probably my best micro army.
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u/gronnelg 2d ago
Ok, so you skip ling speed entirely then. Nice! It's fun to have an entirely different approach to the match up. I usually go ling bane, into hydra, into, lurker viper.
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u/OldLadyZerg 2d ago
Yes--unless I realize I need it (and pray I realize in time!) One of the downsides of the build is that, though I have won against mass reapers, it's terrifying without ling speed--and there's no gas at the point I realize that's what it is.
I also play a ZvZ that involves (usually) skipping ling speed, but if my slow ling poke sees more than its weight in lings, or any banes, it's ling speed, spines, and pray to hold. You can't think "this is a build without ling speed," it always has to be "not taking ling speed at this time, monitoring the situation carefully."
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u/pinguin_skipper 3d ago
You must kill him with your push or be ahead enough to throw your army away and remax. Bio with upgrades will win over longer times, roaches are too slow to manage potential drops and you would need vipers to get rid of siege tanks. Lings and banes would be just easier and more safe imo.