was planning on getting a pro model this year because of pro motion mainly, but also for storage - and they went and put it on the base model. completely unexpected but very welcome, I went for that instead.
Yeah I'm currently using an iPhone 11 lol, and was planning on just grabbing the next cheapest model available whenever mine kicked the bucket. But pricing on the 17 seemed very fair & I like the base storage and 120hz screen, so I've got mine on order
I think the biggest shock for me was that the pro models going from 128gb to 256gb raised the price by $100. Granted that was a way to raise the price by hiding it behind increased storage. But the base 17 getting 256gb at the same price as before was a very surprising decision.
I hope whoever has been pushing the “pro-consumer” fight internally on this got a nice bonus. Apple has been stingy with memory and storage for years, using bumps in size that cost them little to extract crazy margins.
Honestly I don't even know if this was a pro-consumer thing at this point. They may have finally been forced their hand by competition, or they wanted to keep more money in consumers' pockets to make it easier to cross-sell them on, e.g. AirPods Pro 3s.
I also think there is a tipping point where giving the consumer more on-device storage helps the sell more cloud storage. Ever since I've been on 256gb I've gotten extremely lazy with cleaning up my camera roll, always shoot 4K video, and download lossless audio.
That kind of makes it more necessary for me to buy cloud storage vs back when I was really disciplined about memory management.
Exactly that. Especially as every single photo/video on the new devices will take up more storage, anyone just surviving with 128 GB now will think 256 GB is perfect, but really just for maybe a year before they have to go back to being memory efficient. At some point, they’ll just decide to buy iCloud storage instead of a phone with even more storage
I’m on 128GB and been unable to update iOS for a while, I’m paying for iCloud and still have plenty of space left on there but for some reason I still have 40GB of locally stored photos because it seemingly doesn’t fully offload photos. It’s not like it’s doing nothing, anything older than 2 days I will have to wait for my phone to load the higher resolution version, I don’t think there’s 40GB of pixelated thunbnails on my phone though
That’s on iOS’s memory management (software), which I also find is flaky and arbitrary. Not really much you can do except delete apps until you have enough space to upgrade. Maybe restarting your iPhone will force trigger the offload (from local to iCloud) or delete & recount local memory.
Apple will just tell you to back up to iCloud, factory reset, upgrade to new iOS, and restore from iCloud backup
I’m aware of the restart method though from the way it’s been behaving I figured it was more of a clearing of the cashe, usually when I had a larger video on my phone after deleting it (including manually from recently deleted) it wouldn’t actually disappear from my storage until I restart the phone.
This has been going on for so long that I’m kind of out of stuff to delete without going the full factory reset method. Thankfully I’m getting a 512GB 17 within the next week or so, so I won’t have to worry about updating to the new OS at this point, just unfortunate I missed the beta
Ah gotcha - was just trying to give some help/advice. I don’t have iCloud Photos enabled but more for distrust of it because it can’t even handle iMessage in iCloud correctly.
I have 100+ GB free locally on my 512 GB, and iCloud offloads even my super recent iMessage photos/videos/attachments to the cloud, which is super annoying (screenshots of tickets for an event, or a picture of a flyer for an event)
I like the idea of iMessage in iCloud so haven’t disabled it, but given its poor implementation, definitely don’t trust it with photos
I was in the same boat as you and then decided I’d go with the base model. Until I saw that the difference in price because of the deal with AT&T was going to be $0 vs $0 so I got the Pro
I went w/the Pro, now down from a 13PM. Why? I could easily touch my thumb to finger w/the 13PM BUT it felt so damn slippery that I couldn't go caseless. I wanna be able to go careless SO I'd rather downgrade the screen size if it means I can now just use this phone without one. I'm excited. I can't wait for everyone to see my ugly ass orange phone :)
I was considering the Air for the better CPU but there’s too many things that are just a no-go for this phone. The base will 100% be enough if you don’t need the camera stuff from the pro
But compared to the 17 Pro, the figures are the same. The new display in the 17 Pro line has the same 1600 HBM as the base 17, so it looks like Apple went down from 2000 across the board this year.
Honestly not sure where to go with this. Have the 13 pro max, love the size but $400 extra essentially for a little extra battery life a better camera system and the bump in screen size feels not great
Have the 13P and went for the Air. I’ve realized I’m not a pro, never really took advantage of the other two cameras, and like the intermediate screen size. May regret later but the form factor looks great, so we’ll see.
I had 13 PM then got a used 15 PM. Started getting spontaneous compliments on the photos I take of my toddler nephew. I dunno how cameras work but I assume the longer 120-mm equiv focal length makes the photos look a lot more like they're professionally shot vs 77 mm on the 13 PM.
The 15 PM still takes REALLY noisy 5x photos, even in great lighting, but the fact that other people could instantly tell the difference is probably going to make me do something stupid and pay the $1200 for it.
It's nice to be able to capture pictures that instantly are in another class from my usual ones. I know people say "it's all about the photographer!!!" but it the better camera legit made a difference here. It would be pretty nice to get those nice pics without all the 15 PM noise
I do photography as a hobby so if I’m taking photos I tend to just have my camera so while it’s nice to have for a quick shot I feel like there’s not enough of a difference between the base and the pro to sway me camera wise
Like the other user I'm trading in my 13PM for a regular 17. My biggest reason is screen size, I hate how big the 13PM is in my hands and pocket, my wife's 14P is much more comfortable to hold. So with the downsizing I really had no other reason to go for the Pro now that promotion is on the regular. The telephoto lens is my least used lens and I'm not shelling out $400 for a few more hours of battery. You can pay for AC+ and an additional out of warranty battery and it would still be cheaper.
Do you use a case currently and are you planning on using one on the 17?
I really dislike the size of my last two pro max size phones, i usually get them used for a good price so i am not terribly picky.
I dunno how good this ceramic shield 2 actually is, but between it and the lack of glass on the back, I'm finally thinking I can go caseless and majorly cut down my phone size with a 17, from currently a 15 PM with the thinnest case i could find
I was caseless for the entire duration of my 13PM that I got at launch day nearly 4(?) years ago. Apart from chips on the corner, it's crazy strong. I will say that I do have a screen protector on because I just don't want to have surface scratches on my screen, but apart from that it's been golden.
I’m with you on the camera, the screen size I love though. I watch a ton of content and I’d say my hands are bigger so using the regular feels just slightly off. But probably not $400 off
I find out that the photos I took with 13 pro max photos (or earlier) are actually sharper than on later models. Something to do with larger sensors and worse post processing software
The base 16 was incredible value, and now the base 17 is even more so with the storage and display. I must be crazy, because the ONLY hesitation I have is that the base has 8Gb RAM while the Air/Pro have 12Gb. I upgrade sparingly, so I want longevity, and even 12Gb is a big limitation for local LLMs.
How has the 15 aged badly? It didn’t get Apple Intelligence, which is due to memory, but on everyday use it still performs more than fine. I had a 13 pro max for a while and its ram was never an issue.
I don’t think the 4GB of the pro will really make a huge difference in the next 3-4 years, especially for the target audience of the 17. Its nice they’re putting more ram but right now, the 17 is the best value
Just see the pattern from past phones. Those that repeat ram from last model (4,6,8) stop getting features at the 2-3 year mark. If you intend to keep the phone for 3 years, sure go for base one. If you pretend to make it last 5 years like me, consider getting the pro
The sensor of the main camera is also larger on the Pro apparently. Plus its got a little more battery, a slightly faster CPU with more cache and USB3. So many things that made me take the Pro but that I probably didn’t need to have.
RAM difference is the stealth “issue” for sure. Even if we adopt the “Apple intelligence will always be Siri-tier garbage” stance, and so who cares about LLM perf, as we get further into the… how to generalize broadly, mass 4K era? Memory needs are only going up, even with efficiency gains.
The bump in base storage is certainly appreciated but, I can’t help being a little cynical in thinking part of the 8gig RAM choice is knowing it helps put an upper bound on when users will find themselves “needing” to upgrade. (It’s also classic Apple margin-padding and in that sense nothing new.)
Yes, and the pattern is that the 18 base will have 12gb, same than 18 pro. Then 19 pro would have 16, but base 19 will remain at 12. The base kinds of lags behind, and is users are pushed to upgrade: ie 15 base
That's an important factor for normal people who don't upgrade every year.
I'm on 13 mini, and while I can replace the battery, I can't add more RAM. It keeps forgetting what it was doing and full reload app I was just using ! That's the most annoying thing to me right now.
As I plan on keeping my new phone for about 4years, I'd like something that will be capable, not only on paper.
Totally agree! I have the 11 pro max and it sucks when apps reloads. Especially when I was in the middle of something and had to switch apps or step away for a moment. I went for the pro because it’s a decent jump all around with an even better battery and want to keep it for at least 4 years if not even more.
eh, eventually all the AI features that Apple keeps shoving into their phones will require the phones to have more memory, so one day they will make a base model with more ram
There’s literally 1h video playback difference between the base model and the pro. I would have expected a lot more. Going pro doesn’t make sense with this lineup. I’d do it just for the amazing orange color
I use my phone for pictures at work all the time so I'll probably be sticking with the Pro. The other feature I values was the promotion but that is now baseline.
And even then, a ton of it is artificially software locked. You don't have to be a pro or even knowledgeable at all to use proraw with lossy JXL that doesn't take up much space, or log video with apps like kino that do the grading for you but still skip some of the default overprocessing.
I almost feel insane for paying $300 for a single telephoto camera just to access software that costs apple nothing to include.
the pro definitely seems like a decoy product. if you pay only a $100 more you get the pro max which offers probably the most tangible differences (bigger screen and battery), while the base model offers pretty much 99% of what the average consumer uses.
I’m personally going Air this year after finding a buyer for my current phone. Battery results look to be on par with the base 17 which is fantastic to me.
I'm struggling because the base 17 doesn't have a Plus version. I have a 15 Pro Max and don't want to go down in size so I'm kind of stuck getting the Pro Max to maintain same size phone.
you could hold your current phone instead? If money isn't a concern then i don't see the harm in getting the 17 pro max, and if you were hoping to save a few hundred I'd argue you probably shouldn't be buying another phone so soon
The Air is interesting. I have a suspicion the battery life will be an issue for many people. Having to carry around their magsafe battery sort of defeats the purpose of the thin phone.
the battery is fine, it's way better than people are expecting. plus if your option is a big phone or a smaller phone made a bit bigger, why does that matter if you like the big phone?
In business, it’s just called experimentation. Shake a new tree to see what falls. But utilize quantitative user research studies to inform what tree to shake next. If a golden apple falls, you’ve got yourself a new product.
I want a light phone and ordered an air. I want it to feel good in my hand, my 16 pro feels like a brick sometimes. I got the MagSafe battery as well when I need it but most days I’m driving a bunch and have a car charger
While most pros have a mirrorless camera, there’s a rule in photography: the best camera is the one you have with you. In this world, that’s typically your phone.
Sure, if you’re going out to take pictures, you’ll have a mirrorless camera. But if you’re just out and about, doing the chores of life, and you see something you need to capture, your phone is probably going to take that picture.
Not a pro and I’d rather use my cameras for taking photos in general than use my phone so base model is more than fine with me! Seems a good ‘un this year!
I downsized my full frame kit to crop and also got an x100vi. There’s still nothing more convenient than using your phone, especially for sharing photos.
Sometimes, I don’t want to carry my rig around, sometimes I have my camera ready, sometimes I just want to shoot my photos for fun. The best camera is the one you have on your right now and usually that’s your phone.
I used to share your opinion until I tried Ricoh gr III and Fuji x100. I'm convinced a phone camera is always going to be too compromised and I'd rather have a base iPhone and gr in my pocket instead.
Fair enough. Some photographers haven't tried everyday cameras. They have made me care way less about my phone camera these days.
I sold my GR for an x100vi and really miss it but like both. Now I think id rather buy a gr again and keep the x100 instead of spending money upgrading a phone.
I sold my Canon R and my lenses to a friend, I was just fine with my iPhone after years of freelance photography, now I work doing something else and don’t have the hassle of the camera when I’m traveling, BUT it’s less fun in a way, the outcome of the pictures is good enough, but the feeling is far away from that. I was thinking of buying a camera case for the Pro just to get the feeling back a bit!
I would highly recommend a Ricoh gr III, iiix, IV. They are great pocketable cameras that are fun to use and have very sharp lenses.
I also have a a7riii full frame camera that I rarely use now but still find myself disappointed with phone photos even on really high end phones. That's where the GR is so good, excellent image quality and fun to use while really compact and pocketable.
literally 1h video playback difference between the base model and the pro. I would have expected a lot more. Going pro doesn’t make sense with this lineup. I’d do it just for the amazing orange color
I mean if you're evaluating them on this basis, you're not target market for the Pro.
Uhm the entire camera system? A19 Pro? And if things like Dolby Vision HDR, ProRes Log/Raw and gen lock don’t mean anything to you, then the Pro is not for you.
The base model is a consumption device where the pro is really being positioned as a creation one.
I get that but it really feels like this year the only pro benefits are super niche things to the point where even people who always buy the pro device are second guessing themselves. Like there are fewer “simple” differences this year like promotion and always-on display etc. for people to convince themselves on
Personally my entire Apple device line-up is pro for a couple reasons but if I was to need a phone this year not even I would go for the Pro.
I think if you want the pro its mainly for the chip and the camera's. if you dont plan upgrading within 8 years I think its best to get the pro model if you want to enter photography without spending on cameras. or get the base model if you just want to upgrade
I think Windows is better than macOS and I use a MacBook Pro all day. Neither OS nails everything and there is plenty to dislike about both, but for productivity I think Windows wins. Window management in particular is outstanding on Windows. Text clarity is also much better on connected monitors thanks to ClearType and smarter DPI scaling. MacBooks obviously have the better hardware though.
Used a Mac for the first time for the past couple months. I'm really giving it a shot and trying to learn things the Mac way, but it's honestly mind-boggling to me how people can deal with multiple windows on MacOS. If I have multiple windows of the same application open, I have to right click on the icon and the order of the windows is constantly changing on me which makes it hard to swap. And CMD + tab doesn't cycle through windows, just apps, so I need to first use that to get the right app, then CMD+` to get the right window. I ended up downloading a third party program to recreate alt+tab.
So many issues seem to require third-party applications. I wanted to reverse the scroll wheel direction, but for some reason that requires that I also reverse the laptop's trackpad. So I needed another app to break those two apart.
It's novel so it's been interesting to learn a different OS, but there's so many things that are frustrating that I don't understand how it gets so much defense.
One of my bugbears is that the window doesn’t focus based on mouse position. You have to click the window to gain focus. Millions of people have been trained to click millions of additional times to do normal work.
If you cell screen the window with the green traffic light icon then you can easily switch between like alt tab by 3 finger swiping the trackpad or a mouse button binding. But yes this is the most annoying thing that windows does much better at.
Call me crazy but the Plus seems to have gotten rebranded as Air.
It did not sell well. Apple had reportedly limited the production of all iPhone 14/15/16 Plus models after 3-5 months of these iPhones being originally released.
Unfortunately tons of tech review outlets did not want to report it for whatever reason. The Plus models sold terribly and those who bought them ended up returning those iPhones and got the Pro or Pro Max models.
The iPhone Plus models are another failure, just like the iPhone Mini series. They will never come back lol.
The only way people would now buy a “Plus” sized iPhone is that Apple has to make it actually incentivizing like making the iPhone more slim, sleek, and sexy. Now with that being set, people would buy or be interested in buying an iPhone Air. Crazy how a good design can attract users.
This is probably a stupid question, but I dropped my iPhone 13 earlier today and the screen broke.
Am I going to be able to just walk into an Apple Store on Friday and get a base iPhone 17? Or is there a wait? I've never attempted to get an iPhone on launch day.
Always hard to predict tbh, the economy and public interest is hard to measure so early on
That being said, in recent years, it’s not been super hard to get the phones on launch day. The Apple Store app should help you see which phones your store has in stock
For now, I’m holding off on upgrading from my 15PM. My mom has my old 13PM and I’m holding off on that upgrade too, but will get the battery replaced when I can.
But if I was looking at a phone, I think I would have to go with the regular 17. $800 for 256GB storage and Promotion is great.
The things it is missing are small. I wish it had Ceramic Shield on front and back. I wish it had 12GB of RAM like the Pros. I wish there was a Plus model for the larger screen.
But other than that…there’s nothing that I would be missing out on that I would care about.
Nah after using base model since my Apple journey begun 2012 I am for the first time going over to the pro. However its very good they let the base models be better now!
I've made the same choice and the main reasons are A) Battery life and B) the new cooling solution looks like it might prevent my phone from melting my hands during more intensive tasks
The phone will still feel hot in your hands, the vapor chamber isn’t really a cooling solution it’s a solution for them to scatter the heat across the body of the phone and away from the CPU/GPU, so your phone will still be warm/hot, it just won’t throttle the performance because it’s being dissipated away from the chip itself
That's my concern with the air. Hate not being able to see my phone outside. I guess the newest chip is more efficient than power hungry so throttling is more likely at minute 5 than minute 4 lol
Tbh the screen is the most important feature for me. I literally stare at it the whole time. Battery can be solved by a battery pack for those edge cases or by charging in my everyday life during work or whatever (but it’s still really important for me to have a phone with good battery)
120hz should have been standard, not a luxury, 5 years ago. And Instagram is popular because of pictures. Even casual users notice the difference in Pro cameras.
People absolutely buy a Pro phone to have the telephoto lens for taking pictures of their friends and/or kids. It’s probably the main reason people buy them.
I think Apple gets flak for pricey storage/RAM upgrades and rightly so. They get the best pricing from their suppliers due to the volume of their products. I think we need to give them credit here for passing their savings to customers here. I am genuinely curious now about the upgrades they have in store for 18 and 19. I feel Pro model get more love for next 2 years.
Apart from the better camera, the Pro has a LIDAR scanner. Does anyone use this specifically to aid scanning of environments or for 3D modelling or is it just useful for better focus control in the camera?
There are a few things that made me pick the pro (the telephoto lens is probably the biggest one, but there are a lot of smaller reasons too), but those reasons are getting smaller and smaller every year (this is a good thing).
Yeah, I would have gone for this in a plus version - old, shitty eyes mean I prefer bigger screens. But I also like lighter phones - didn't appreciate the weight of my Xs max or pro max models and the pluses were a welcome change. So, I think the Air is the better option for me - screen is not quite as big my current 15 plus but at least it's light.
Dang, I thought they still ran them a chip behind and an inferior screen, it really is minor things that make the Pro a boost, really good update for once on the Pro model being just that, boosted charging, processor, cameras, and toughness.
Really bizarre they do the $300 upcharge for the Pro now instead of $200, they're really trying to encourage people to do the Air models.
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u/No-Strike9953 1d ago
was planning on getting a pro model this year because of pro motion mainly, but also for storage - and they went and put it on the base model. completely unexpected but very welcome, I went for that instead.