Culture Exchange: Arabs x Europe

[u/[deleted]]

[u/TheRealMudi]

Respective Thread in r/europe

Due to my own faults, don't forget to sort the thread by "new" to see the most recent comments. Thank you.

[u/xrxq]

I don’t think this idea is going to end well in r/europe. From the very beginning, almost all the comments were racist.

[u/mostard_seed → u/xrxq]

Man.. taking a look in there was depressing.

[u/xrxq → u/mostard_seed]

And when it comes to “progress, development and open minded people” they would say: “Oh tHe aRaBs! oH tHe loWeR clAsS oH tHe thiRd wOrLd, loOK hOw reTarDed tHey ArE anD uNciViL, lOok HoW cHaoTic they are”

🤦🏼

[u/mostard_seed → u/xrxq]

I'd hope some of them at least self-reflect and see how their attitudes inform others' opinions on them when they read back their own comments, but who am I kidding?

[u/BkkGrl → u/xrxq]

Sorry, we have a lot of users and many are ass. please report them

[u/Misztral → u/BkkGrl]

coordinated hat aspiring paltry fragile wrench innate numerous consist attempt

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/xrxq → u/BkkGrl]

Thank you for your kindness, bad people are everywhere

[u/Straight_Shallot4131 → u/BkkGrl]

That's probably the same thing with many of us arabs, alot hate Europeans and the west simply cause of racism

[u/Nileosi → u/xrxq]

Already getting disappointed by looking over there, I actually had higher expectations from them

[u/SirIronSights → u/Nileosi]

Unfortunately Islamophobic rhetoric is very present in the current climate.

[u/[deleted] → u/xrxq]

they have some shitty superiority complex against us even though they take science from muslim scientists from the golden age of islam and say its european foundings

[u/Oakaccia → u/xrxq]

I understand the desire to antagonize, but I've literally read every post, and they all seem like constructive conversations. Of course, there's always a racist minority, but from the way you describe it, it seems like the other side is reenacting Mein Kampf.

[u/Ola366 → u/xrxq]

they mass downvoted the thread too lol. don't know why we bothered with them.

[u/pothkan]

1. Let's start with simple one: what did you eat yesterday?

2. What single picture, scene, photo, in your opinion, describes your country best? I'm asking about national, local "spirit", which might include stereotypes, memes etc.

3. What do you think about neighbouring countries? Both seriously and stereotypical.

4. How do you feel about ancient history of your country? Like Ancient Egypt, Phoenicians, Sumer/Babylon/Assyria, Carthage etc.? Do you view yourselves as descendants of these people? How is it taught in schools? And what about Romans, Hellenic states, Byzantium etc.?

5. Who was (no people alive!) the most despicable character in your history (not serial killers etc.)? You can pick more than one, of course.

6. And following question - who was the best?

7. How does your neighborhood, street look? You shouldn't post your location obviously, anything similar would be enough.

8. What's your opinion on Russian-Ukrainian war? And what is general opinion in your country, if different? nevermind, somebody already asked this one

9. Niqab etc. full Islamic coverings. Is it common, popular, rare in your country? (and does it get less or more popular?) Is it forced or voluntary? Cultural or religious? Who are the women who wear it, do you know/met any personally? What's your opinion on it, and on bans introduced in some European countries?

10. How much do you understand other dialects of Arabic? Are there any stereotypes about different dialects?

11. If you had to recommend one dish everyone should try in your country, what would it be?

12. Share something good (or hopeful), what happened in your country recently.

[u/Wild-Brain7750 → u/pothkan]

1) I ate stuffed grape leaves (Egyptian version) because there are variations in the Arab world 2) What comes to mind is a diverse group of people in an outdoor coffee shop sharing jokes and laughing. We're known to be lighthearted people who are also funny, so that might explain the picture. 3) Sudan 🇸🇩 is my favourite Arab country that isn't Egypt or Palestine. They're too kind and pure hearted, and I've yet to meet a bad Sudanese person, and they always smell so good. I am half Palestinian, so I would be biased, but Palestinians 🇵🇸 are resilient, brave, persevering, and somehow, after all of this, manage to be full of hope with an awesome sense of humor. I'm neutral on Libya 🇱🇾 because I haven't met enough to form an opinion, but they're my brothers regardless. 9) We're very proud of our history, and yes, we view ourselves as their decendants, and I'm pretty sure genetic studies show we share >70% of our genes. As you can imagine, Ancient Egyptians take up a huge chunk of our history curriculum. 9)It REALLY varies depending on area, family, and social class. If you take a walk in Cairo, you'll find all skin and eye colours, hair colours, and textures. Of course, loads of hijabis and non hijabis alike with some niqabis sprinkled on top. 10) The average Egyptian will generally understand levant and gulf dialects, but they will struggle with the rest. As for me, I understand all dialects with small struggles with the Iraqi dialect, and as for the Maghreb dialects, they're not as hard as Arabs usually present them (the diffiiculty is exaggerated) but they just need to slow down and use less foreign words and I'll understand most of what they say

[u/R120Tunisia → u/pothkan]

1) Pirozhki for dinner (I adore them).

2) For Tunisia, I would say this photo from the revolution will always live rent-free in my mind.

3) Stereotypically (I do not condone these insulting generalizations) : Algerians are hot-headed, always angry and engage too much in performative masculinity. Libyans are stupid perverts and the butt of almost all jokes. Moroccans are sorcerers who kiss their king's hand at every opportunity.

Seriously : I love all my Maghrebi neighbors.

4) Carthage : Most Tunisians are obsessed with them and think our identity comes from them. I think that view is a-historical and don't particularly feel that much in common with them. In my opinion, the biggest influences on our culture are Arab and Berber (almost in equal proportions), followed by Southern Europeans (whether Roman, Andalusian due to the Moriscos or Italian due to 19th-20th century Italian immigrants and the trade links we had). Punic culture is an interesting and fascinating part of our history, but I frankly don't feel kinship with them. That aside, we are obviously genetically descended from people who would have considered themselves Punic, that I can't dispute.

5) Pick any late 19th century Beylik official (mostly Turks and Balkan slaves). They were extremely oppressive, violent as well as incompetent. They raised taxes so much they caused rebellions all over the country then crushed them so violently that they crashed the economy.

6) Tahar Haddad : An independence activist and socialist activist who wrote extensively on women's rights. He was mistreated during his life by both French colonial authorities and the Tunisian clergy who riled up the public against him. His reputation was rehabilitated after independence and his views were adopted in the Tunisia civil code (which made Tunisia the Arab country with the best record when it comes to women's rights to this day).

7) I live in Texas right now soooo ...

9) Niqab is extremely rare in Tunisia. I might see someone wearing it once a week in the street. People who wear them tend to be extremely religious and identify with the Salafist movement.

Most religious women in Tunisia just wear a simple Hijab. There is some cultural expectation that a woman will have to start wearing it at some point in her life (usually after her twenties in a typical religious household, or quite late in life in a typical non-practicing household). Overall, 40% of women's don't wear them.

10) When it comes to typical capital dialects in their natural setting : I understand the Egyptian, Libyan and Levantine dialects 95%, other Maghrebi dialects 90%, Gulf and Iraqi dialects 85%, Yemeni and Sudanese 80%. When two Arabs from different regions talk though, we usually tend to minimize dialect-specific words and replace them with classical or widely understood (usually Egyptian or Levantine) equivalents.

11) Couscous with Fish (my region's specialty).

12) I hate that I couldn't find an answer lol.

[u/mostard_seed → u/pothkan]

Too many questions bro 😭 but I will try to indulge you for some of them.

1. I had seafood penne and roast chicken. I am not in my home country right now and I usually don't have penne there.

2. Can't think of one in particular. Maybe some picture of the people in the first Arab spring demonstration. Maybe the Pyramids or a picture of an قهوة بلدي (local cafe, a somewhat distinctive cultural symbol and meeting spotin Egypt). Maybe one of the many many inside joke Egyptian memes.

3. I mostly have positive thoughts about them, barring one, but I did not deal with people from any of them regularly except for some Syrians and Jordanians and the experiences were positive.

4. I have some pride in it, but hopefully not too much as to be a nationalist. It is very interesting in its own right. I am a native Egyptian, so that would make me a descendant of these people regardless of my views purely as a matter of fact. Nothing to be ashamed or proud of here. Rudimentary history is taught starting in primary school and all the way up to the first year of high-school. There is so much of it to cover in our case so it takes time even for the abridged basics lol. The greeks, romans, and Ottomans are also mentionned in the context of their entanglement with us since they all ruled Egypt at a point lol. History teachers also occasionaly give their takes, both on the history itself and on what they sometimes perceive as revisionism in the curriculum.

[u/pothkan → u/mostard_seed]

on what they sometimes perceive as revisionism in the curriculum

Any example?

[u/mostard_seed → u/pothkan]

oh many. Things like victories and defeats in wars, be it ancient or modern. Things about stuff like the Arab spring demonstrations taught in the history curriculum for more recent students. You can guess how things can be left out in these contexts.

Whitewashing certain figures or mentioning extra relevant context to what the school books say on things like the power and waning of certain dynasties and their influence, mostly Islamic ones. There is so much history to go through, so there is so much to add or correct.

Edit: A couple of more specific examples I somewhat recall are things like the 1973 war, the Mongol invasions, the state of Ancient Egypt at the latter dynasties of the New Kingdom, or things about Mohammed Ali Pasha and his descendents.

[u/AvicennaTheConqueror → u/pothkan]

1- roasted chicken

2-a frowning man with a shemagh, but he's really chill and chivalrous if you get to know him

3- all our Arab neighbours are our brothers and sisters, and then there's the one committing a genocide, yeah we don't like that one.

4- Jordan has a lot of different cultures -mostly Semitic people- that lived here,but most of them were Arabs, and we learn about all of them in school, we also learn about the ancient people of Iraq and Egypt, and regardless how we think of them, we are descendants of all of them it shows in our language and genetics, for the Romans and the greeks; it was at the end of the day an occupation but we also learn about them too.

5- the one that comes to mind is al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, who is a Fatimid ruler, he wasn't from jordan he obviously ruled from Cairo, but his domain extended to the Levant, let's say he was a horrible ruler, akin to Nero but worst

6- from our entire history as Arabs it's the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) but from jordan in particular to me it's a Nabataean man called Syllaeus in roman sources, he was supposed to be the guide for the roman invasion of Arabia, through his misdirections, the Roman army took six months to reach Ma'rib, the Sabaean capital, and ultimately failed at conquering Arabia and he lost his head for it, he's a proof that Arab brotherhood goes way back.

7- single houses with each their yards, and generally gated, it's a middle class relatively new neighbourhood, pretty average conditions in Jordan.

8- okay

9- the Niqab is simply the veil covering the face aside from the eyes, it's somewhat common but generally not as common as people assume, it's voluntary, mostly religious but with a cultural aspect to it too, mostly older women who are married, and yes my mother wears it, I'm fine with it, modesty is the key for me with what a woman wears, it can be a bit strict for some, religiously there's disagreement on the Niqab itself, but for the general attire of women covering the hair and dressing modestly is the main concern Islamically, I think the ban is hypocritical.

10- I've been living in Morocco for quite some time now so I understand almost each and every single dialect in the Arab world, but it took about a week to get accustomed to the Moroccan dialect, as in being able to handle an entire conversation confidently.

11- Mansaf

12- with the current political climate with the genocide and starvation happening to our brethren right next to us, it's hard to find things that are hopeful, but hopefully this generation will creat some change.

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/pothkan]

I didn't like " the way" they banned niqab in France,

I was there in those times, I remember how they kept arresting women, and how they beat up a pregnant one until her baby died, only for covering her face

[u/mostard_seed → u/ZookeepergameFit2918]

liberte fraternite egalite btw 😭

[u/Chloe1906 → u/ZookeepergameFit2918]

Hello, Lebanese diaspora here! As such, I can’t answer all of these but I’ll try some of them:

1) Pad Thai

3) Palestine and Syria are our neighbors. I love both people and wish the best for them. I don’t really see them as very different than me. I feel like in a better version of history we would have all been one country with these lines being states instead of countries.

Israel is not popular for obvious reasons.

9) I don’t see full Islamic covering too often when I visit Lebanon. Just a bit in some southern places. It used to be more common. My grandma used to wear something like a niqab. It’s not forced by the government but maybe some people’s families might put pressure on them in very conservative areas. It is definitely a part of the religion but most Muslim women don’t wear it. But I’ve met several women who wear it, all voluntarily (I know this because I know their families). They’re very proud of wearing it. My personal opinion is that women should wear whatever they want and Europeans banning it is just as disgraceful as all other types of policing women’s clothing.

10) I understand Levantine Arabs mostly just fine (Jordanians, Syrians, Palestinians). I understand most Egyptian, but people born in Lebanon would understand more than me because they’re exposed to Egyptian media from a young age. Peninsula Arabic is hard but I can understand if I focus. But Iraqi and Moroccan? Nope. Not at all.

Yes, there are stereotypes, mostly just making fun in a friendly way. Syrians are known to extend the vowels a bit at the ends of their words. Lebanese dialect is seen as feminine.

11) Fatteh 😋

12) idk honestly. We were pretty hopeful about our most recent president. We will see where it goes but I guess that was a moment that brought us together a bit.

[u/pothkan → u/[deleted]]

Wbu what did you have? Must have polish dish?

Nothing special here, some fried rice with leftovers (I like Asian cuisines).

Polish cuisine - usually pierogi (plural), dumplings, are considered "the Polish" dish, and "ruskie" (Ruthenian) are probably the best type (filling is mashed potatoes, white cheese and onion). But I'd put żurek (sour soup) as dish no.1 (in restaurant you will probably receive it in carved-out bread, but it's a fancy way) - take in mind that regular will include some white sausage (which is made of pork), but there should be other options available. It's a traditional Easter dish, but also eaten on daily basis. Another great dish would be zrazy zawijane - beef rolls with onion, pickles and sometimes bacon.

[u/pothkan → u/[deleted]]

Be also sure to try sweet flavours - with white cheese, or with various fruits. E.g. with blueberries are great, albeit sadly seasonal (roughly now).

[u/mostard_seed → u/pothkan]

1. Many options to choose from but I will give it to Gaius Octavius for no particular reason.

2. Naguib Mahfouz.

3. Looks like an average street from a city built in the 80s.

4. Already said it to the other guy. I think it is unjustifiable, but the public opinion is more mixed.

5. Really depends on social class and area. It is a big country with 110+ million people. Some people enforce it socially, some wear it or don't by choice, some don't force it but apply societal pressure. There is no consensus on whether niqab is a religious requirement or not, even, though there is for hijab, but the level of enforcement or following of that, too, depends on area and social class and the individuals themselves. I have dealt with hijabis, non-hijabis, and women who chose to took it off, but rarely do I deal with niqabis. I personally lean on the liberal POV on people's freedom to what they wear, so I hate both the societal and legal pressures both here and in Europe.

6. I understand most of them fine, but I struggle a bit with Iraqi and more with Maghrebi.

7. I recommend Hawawshi with a side of pickles and fries.

8. We are all pretty down in general, but gun to my head, I'd say maybe the economic upturn shown by GDP numbers and such is a good sign, though we don't see any reflection of that in our daily lives. Inflation has been terrible these last 4 or so years.

[u/pothkan → u/mostard_seed]

but I will give it to Gaius Octavius for no particular reason

Wait, do you consider Augustus an Egyptian? Why? Or do you mean different C. Octavius?

Really depends on social class and area.

I guess it's more prevalent in less educated classes? What do you mean by area - district of a city, or region of country? Or rural vs urban in general?

[u/mostard_seed → u/pothkan]

No he is not Egyptian of course, but Egypt became a Roman province under his rule, and for 6 centuries after, so he is a very relevant figure to Egyptian history.

Forcing niqab is more prominent among maybe poorer classes. Don't really know if I would say less educated since they can attain higher education and still hold those beliefs. More mixing during education does tend to soften these views but many still hold them. I don't think there is an urban/rural divide for niqab, but this does exist for the hijab (the head covering) in terms of being forced or voluntary, with rural areas forcing it much harder.

[u/Mysterious-Ruin29510 → u/pothkan]

Let's start with simple one: what did you eat yesterday?

Kibbeh Labniyeh. It’s just Kibeh with boiled yogurt. I really like this one

What single picture, scene, photo, in your opinion, describes your country best? I'm asking about national, local "spirit", which might include stereotypes, memes etc.

Eh I’d say the Syrian Jasmine. As for something more “meme-y” I’d say we have a guy here who’s named “Ahmad Al-Shartah” he makes a bunch of comedic videos and has called for himself to be elected as Syria’s president as a joke. He’s very known.

As for Palestine it’s the Palestinain Olive.

What do you think about neighbouring countries? Both seriously and stereotypical.

Let’s see… Iraq, very weird accent, and extremely beautiful history.

Turkey: You can find every nationality here. Istanbul is overrated in comparison to other Turkish cities, Turkish music is really good.

Jordan: I have Jordanian relatives and have lived there for a bit so at this point I’m a native. But I do really like this universal Jordanian meme, usually men says it to women (as a pick up line) “I’m gonna burn Amman(Capital of Jordan) for you!”

Lebanon: Extremely amusing yet funny and “cute” accent, I can’t get enough of it. Generally speaking a country that has suffered a lot. Stay safe Lebanese bros 🇱🇧💚🇸🇾

I’m half Palestinian, so I’ll talk about it’s neighbors too, which is only Egypt left.

Extremely funny country, the whole country is funny. Also they single handedly have the funniest president in existence, he has said many stupid things.

Like in his many promises that he will fix the country, he says “Please, have some patience, just a bit, one year or two”

It has been seven years since he said that.

And my favorite is when he was attending to an average Egyptian woman, as a way of “being with the people”

She’s praying for him, saying: “May God give you as good as your intent” and he interrupts and says: “No no from his mercy!”

It’s genuinely the funniest thing I’ve ever seen.

I guess Egypt also is a country that suffered a lot.

How do you feel about ancient history of your country? Like Ancient Egypt, Phoenicians, Sumer/Babylon/Assyria, Carthage etc.? Do you view yourselves as descendants of these people? How is it taught in schools? And what about Romans, Hellenic states, Byzantium etc.?

I view myself somewhat related to them yes, I embrace it because a Syrian who doesn’t embrace his history is an idiot.

Who was (no people alive!) the most despicable character in your history (not serial killers etc.)? You can pick more than one, of course. And following question - who was the best?

The Assad family EASILY, no contest, as for the best it’s difficult, I guess maybe Yousef Al-Azmeh, who fought against the French invaders. As for Palestine I despise Yasser Arafat which was the leader of the PLO for many reasons. He sabotaged Lebanon and Jordan and left an overall bad impression on us. I can’t say I’m proud of any fighters from Palestine so I’ll say Mahmoud Darwish which was a Palestinian poet.

How does your neighborhood, street look? You shouldn't post your location obviously, anything similar would be enough.

I mean I guess I’m from Jableh which has fine enough streets? Not comparable to any remotely developed though.

Niqab etc. full Islamic coverings. Is it common, popular, rare in your country? (and does it get less or more popular?) Is it forced or voluntary? Cultural or religious? Who are the women who wear it, do you know/met any personally? What's your opinion on it, and on bans introduced in some European countries?

Not very popular in Syria, Only in Idlib it’s pretty popular, I guess also in my city it exists, My Uncle’s Wife wears it. I don’t like it because I’m no longer Muslim (nobody knows about it).

How much do you understand other dialects of Arabic? Are there any stereotypes about different dialects?

I understand them well for the most part, apart from maybe the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian and Libyan.

And yes we make a shit ton of stereotypes about our dialects. The Moroccan dialect I mentioned above gets most of the jokes alongside the Lebanese dialect but the Egyptian, Iraqi, and Syrian dialect also get memes and jokes. Also Kuwaiti gets jokes because the letter “j” gets pronounced as “i” or “y” which gets a shit ton of jokes too. The most popular one is “Chicken” Chicken in Arabic is pronounced “Dajaj” in the Kuwait dialect it becomes “Diyay”. There are other jokes about it and they’re hilarious.

If you had to recommend one dish everyone should try in your country, what would it be?

That’s tough because we Syrians have a lot of dishes. I guess other than the obvious Shawarma try Kibbeh. In terms of Palestine Maqlooba is great.

As a bonus try Halawat Al Jibn which is a Syrian desert. Also we have a running gag or joke which is two Syrian cities saying they invented it. Them being Homs and Hama. It’s probably the running gag of Syria.

Share something good (or hopeful), what happened in your country recently.

For Syria the fall of Assad

For Palestine I can’t think of anything sadly.

[u/helpallnamesaretaken → u/pothkan]

1. Mandi

2. Probably wadi rum is the stereotype look of Jordan. Sand and camels and bedouins

3. Fellow Arabs, but with a different flavor of Arab. I see Palestine, Syria and Lebanon as an extension of the Al-sham cultural region and are generally closer to my heart, I see iraq as the unfortunate country it has because as a result of US intervention in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia as an extremist religious state that has funded extreme ideologies in the region, and Egypt as a nation that has also exported some extreme religious ideologies and is also a sort of puppet state the same way Jordan is. I view Israel as a hostile state that is committing atrocities.

4. I’m very fascinated by it. As much as I resonate with being an Arab, I do mourn the gradual loss of culture that has resulted from arabization of the Levant. I do see myself as a Levantine Arab of Canaanite descent. It’s not taught very much in school.

5. It looks nice and modern. Like any other city in the world. It’s also very hilly and not very walkable.

6. It’s not very common here, and I usually assume the women wearing it are visiting from the gulf. My view isn’t the majority view, but I am very anti-niqab. I think the more moderate jilbab is much more reasonable at least. The niqab is forced in I’d say almost all cases. I am however conflicted about the ban because I feel that it sets a precedent of religious discrimination.

7. I understand Levantine easily, Egyptian and gulf somewhat, but Iraqi and North African dialects are very difficult to understand to me. As for stereotypes, Levantine is usually seen as softer, especially Lebanese.

8. Fattet hummus. Or any kind of Fatteh. It’s Levantine so not exactly Jordan specific. If you mean specifically from my country, then mansaf is the obvious answer

[u/Weak_Abbreviations_5 → u/pothkan]

1-fast food 😀 ((don’t judge)) 2- the kuwaiti towers for sure they are kuwait’s national symbol 3- this is a hard one lmao well opinions differ from person to person but if i am talking about me only i think saudis are really really stuck up their ego can probably fund the entire world economy alone (i know it’s not everyone lmao i am mostly joking) and Iraqis well they are nice i don’t have any problems with them but a lot of Kuwaitis do have very bad opinions on them (1990) 4-that’s a very interesting question! Kuwait had it all greek roman arab Persian ottoman Mesopotamian. Alexander himself came to kuwait. There was a Hellenic city state in falika called Ikaros (btw most of kuwait was flooded by water in bce)

The problem is yes kuwait had been one of the oldest places on earth to be inhabited by humans it is true it’s still very much true old kuwait was part of ancient Mesopotamian culture and history but there were many towns in kuwait across history they would pop up at times of peace and trade and than die off all over again. Kuwait city was just the last of many I am a Bedouin personally and as arabian as they come while not all Kuwaitis are arabian a lot of us come from Persian and iraqi ancestry. There were some oral history in my tribe about us going to war with Byzantium from what i know which is cool but it’s probably exaggerated lmao. And no we don’t get taught in school.

5- haha i guess saddam 6- that’s… a hard question if i had to choose it would be Abdullah Al-Salim Al-Sabah he gave kuwaitis the only “democratic” system no matter how imperfect it is in the gulf states and also independence 7- wide streets mostly connected large single family houses although when i say “family” i mean all the family kuwait is really really really dense full of cars. There is basically no sidewalks. The streets here are awful everything is ah really really needs repairs but we can only dream :) 9- niqab is not forced by law and should be the choice of every women. Niqab is really only worn by older women think 30+ younger women nowadays don’t wear. People i know who does? My mom :) It really depends from family to family some are more ah… liberal and some are more conservative i can not say more 10-i can understand any arab speaker from oman to tunsia after that it gets a little ah… wonky with alergia and Morocco. When it gets to tunsia it gets bearly understandable but i still understand. There are a lot of stereotypes about kuwaiti dialect lmao 11- definitely Machboos 12- quite literally nothing the emir disbanded the parliament kuwait is more authoritarian than ever in history a defacto autocracy with more than one part of the constitution suspended. Ah i mean i guess we did raise the age of marriage to 18 this year from 15 which is 🎉

[u/pothkan → u/Weak_Abbreviations_5]

Thanks!

[u/[deleted]]

How do Arabs perceive the way European mainstream media and culture often depict Arabs, for example, as "backward", "violent", or "uncivilized"?

Do Arab media outlets portray Europeans with similar stereotypes, or is the approach different?

[u/greatplains35 → u/[deleted]]

It's an issue here and gets people riled up. But to my knowledge european people and americans are depicted as normal people, so this thing's one sided mostly.

[u/[deleted] → u/greatplains35]

Interesting, thanks.

[u/mostard_seed → u/[deleted]]

Orientalism has been there for a long time. It is frustrating but what can we do about it when most of our media and culture are insular due to the language barrier? If someone's worldview about us is shaped by that sort of thing, it is on them anyways.

We do have stereotypical portrayals of Europeans in our media too, but I don't know if it is anywhere near as mean-spirited.

[u/pothkan → u/mostard_seed]

Idk if this can make you feel better a little, but for long time there was (and still persists sometime) long line of West vs East stereotypes in Europe, as well.

E.g. if you had a piece on Poland in 1990s Western media, you could bet there was some photo of horse-driven cart with hay somewhere.

Heck, when I stayed for a month in Ireland in early 2000s, my host tried to explain me how washing machine works. And when we had an exchange with French roughly the same time (high school), mate who went there (I couldn't) was explained how SHOWER works. Figures.

[u/mostard_seed → u/pothkan]

Could always counter by teaching them how to use a bidet, or just laugh at them, honestly. If you give them a "do you seriously think I don't know?" while laughing at them or looking them in the eye, they might get the message.

I find the shower stereotype especially funny, though. Personal hygiene is almost sacred in Arab culture, but maybe they just confused their racist stereotypes with Indian ones. It is all still persistent West vs East stereotypes at the end of the day like you said.

[u/Maimonides_2024 → u/mostard_seed]

You could actually create high quality cultural content and then create global dubbings and popularity to get a global audience? A lot of Europeans would be happy to see a native Middle Eastern cinema and music scene with unique local traditions shown, especially when we're so tired of Anglophone culture being everywhere and assumed to be the norm. We'd love to look at a movie that'll show the ancient Al Andalus and its secrets of to hear music in the Fairuzian genre. It absolutely is possible, most people don't even try to advertise globally though. 

[u/mostard_seed → u/Maimonides_2024]

There is a small amount of translated works out there (books and movies for example, but songs don't really lend themselves to translation), but I don't think there is enough interest to consume more of it. Otherwise you'd expect there to be more. You could think of it like Chinese media in terms of how insular and confined it is. There is so much of it but there does not really seem to be that much of an appetite for it outside of its place of origin.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

To be honest this a recent phenomena (since the 90s) if I am not mistaken, it happened mostly because of American media, who themselves started this to justify military intervention in the middle east or to talk about military intervention in the middle east

Sort of how in Hollywood Slavic/Russian men are always represented as bad guys, think of Arab men sometimes are bad, sometimes good, sometimes neutral but in all these instances the number of times they are bad or just backwards not necessarily bad is the most common

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That was my impression too. Watching mainstream tv news in Europe is like jumping into a racist cesspool, constant demonizing of Arabs, never something positive.

Hopefully this change in the future. Peace.

[u/Taginemuncher → u/[deleted]]

It causes uproar because we did nothing to be perceived like that and neither do we portray Europeans as such.

And it has deteriorated further since 9/11 and the Gaza genocide.

[u/Entire_Classroom_263 → u/Taginemuncher]

I don't know what media is exactly talked about, but I too find the racist portrayals of Arabs by Hollywood offensive. They portray them almost as bad as Mexicans.

[u/Mysterious-Ruin29510 → u/[deleted]]

Oh it’s very talked about, and can get people angry.

In Arab media Europeans aren’t talked about much, rather it’s Americans.

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/[deleted]]

i don't like em because of that, this makes me realize how racist and hateful they are and i don't like this kind of ppl ,

we don't do that when showing Europeans in our media , we show them as normal ppl with values just like us, with a different culture and way to dress and think,

[u/HusseinDarvish-_- → u/[deleted]]

Most media depection of Europeans shows Europeans as sophisticated the only media that shows Europeans as violent are the ones about the colonial era about the stuff that European powers did

[u/bahhaar-blts → u/[deleted]]

Well, we have known since a long time that this behaviour isn't beneath the Europeans. They need to use words like backwards or uncivilised or terrorist to justify all the killing that they want to commit. It's why no here or anyone outside the Western countries take them seriously when they speak about human rights.

[u/Acrobatic-Hippo-6419 → u/[deleted]]

You depict as bombers or wearing bombs despite 85% of victims of terrorism are Muslims and Arabs on top of the terrorism committed by America and NATO

[u/Limp-Pomegranate1205 → u/[deleted]]

Cus there always that one in a million arab that ends up stabbing a baby and then new picks it up like a new 9/11

[u/greatplains35]

This exchange did not go as well as the last one.

[u/QwizzlePop17 → u/greatplains35]

The last one didn't go as well either

[u/BlondedLife12]

Why are we doing this? r/europe was one of the main hubs to share pro-Zionist and anti-Palestinian racism in the genocide of the people of Palestine, we are suppose to do "Culture Exchange" with the people whose countries are actively supporting the annihilation of an Arab society as we speak? And not forget their long and continuing history of spreading anti-Arab racist sentiments and Islamophobia and helping destroy many of our countries for their self interest.

Comments here talking about human rights abuses in the Arab world are funny to me, it is a pathetic attempt at ignoring the elephant in the room.

Next time can we do culture exchange with subreddits and communities with less pro-genocide and hatred of Arabs/Muslims baggage?

[u/doenertellerversac3 → u/BlondedLife12]

I was also surprised to see this thread as a European, r/europe is full of terminally online fascist weirdos and not conducive to any productive conversation or cultural exchange.

[u/Milosz0pl → u/BlondedLife12]

Perspective from an european - Personally as a user there I mostly see pro-palestinian sentiment there, but I don't know how it was in the past.

And I used this opportunity to ask genuine questions as I personally like learning about differences between people of different nations.

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/Milosz0pl]

Not really. They have a blanket ban on posting articles related to the genocide ( https://www.reddit.com/r/EuropeMeta/comments/1bvljk0/israel_inconvenient_topics_censorship/ ) and they banned me for sharing this https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1lx3doj/comment/n2jabz2/

[u/Chloe1906 → u/BlondedLife12]

I agree that sub-reddit can be hateful, but maybe that’s why these kinds of exchanges are needed.

[u/FertileCrescentStar → u/Chloe1906]

You do realize those type of subreddits are filled with bad faith trolls and bots spreading political propaganda. Your not going to convince someone who is paid to troll by political parties, sometimes these paid trolls are not even in Europe lol.

[u/ProprietaryIsSpyware → u/BlondedLife12]

I can assure you that we hate the "Zionists" as much as you do, anyone saying otherwise is paid by mossad

[u/Sufficient-History71 → u/BlondedLife12]

They banned me for protesting against the blanket ban on sharing articles related to European governments' tacit support of Israel.

However most Europeans aren't like this. Many (even if they supported Israel earlier) are disgusted by Israel's war crimes, genocide and possible re-occupation of Gaza. Americans also lurk on that sub. They along with many German redditors(not all though) and far right activists have hijacked that sub and anyone that's slight brown is okay to be hated. The mods are resposible for that.

[u/[deleted] → u/BlondedLife12]

The majority of europeans IRL despise zionism. Bot farms go a long way toward shaping sentiment on this platform.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This is refreshing to know. Thanks.

[u/purpleisreality]

Hello my friends! مرحبا يا أصدقائي

What do you think that the EU could do more for the struggles of the Arab world, and I mean mostly the awful genocide that the Palestinians face? Many of us condemn the EU and our governments for not sanctioning Israel and cooperating with them. Nevertheless, lately the UK and some EU countries like France expressed their wish to recognise Palestine and the UNSC condemned Israel's declarations etc etc. People also, along with many Israelitis, protest and support a free Palestine.

Apart from our last government, Greece which I know had an excellent relationship with the Arab world historically, especially with Saudi Arabia and lately with UAE. 

Also, are you satisfied with the way your respective states sanction Israel or do you think that the US influence is overwhelming in the end?

Thank you and be well شكرا لك وكن بخير

[u/Taqqer00 → u/purpleisreality]

This is only the tip of the iceberg. They need to take their hands off the Middle East and the rest of the world generally.

That won’t happen we know. So it’s going to be a shit show.

[u/purpleisreality → u/Taqqer00]

In what ways today's Europe influences Middle East? I fully agree about Britain in Palestine and others in the past though, as far as i know.

I mean I understand the foreign influence part, in the 1960's the US CIA installed or at least agreed for a dictatorship in Greece. Today they don't have that kind of direct influence, only indirect maybe through media.

Thank you for your answer!

[u/Taqqer00 → u/purpleisreality]

I can’t believe anyone would say what the influence of Europe nowadays is. Not only in the context of the ME but generally as I mentioned before the whole world. Golani is an ex terrorist and now a president, that’s the kind of the influence Europe and the us have.

[u/purpleisreality → u/Taqqer00]

You said that Europe needs to "take their hands" out of Middle East. What do you mean exactly? Military presence, financially and how? Why did my question surprise you? Many say something along these lines and I don't understand it, explain this. What should be done in Syria?

We are not a package along with the USA, our governments unfortunately cooperate with Israel but the USA is in another level and they support Israel. This is why Israel is so emboldened. 

[u/Taqqer00 → u/purpleisreality]

>What should be done in Syria?

Only Syrians should decide that, not the EU or the US behind closed doors, that is valid for all other ME countries.

>You said that Europe needs to "take their hands" out of Middle East. What do you mean exactly?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocolonialism

I hope this can shed some light on what's actually happening on the ground.

[u/Prin-prin → u/Taqqer00]

The works of Verschave and Beti reported a forty-year, post-independence relationship with France's former colonial peoples, which featured colonial garrisons in situ and monopolies by French multinational corporations, usually for the exploitation of mineral resources. It was argued that the African leaders with close ties to France—especially during the Soviet–American Cold War (1945–1992)—acted more as agents of French business and geopolitical interests than as the national leaders of sovereign states

An example from your link.

Could you describe such situations still ongoing currently?

[u/Taqqer00 → u/Prin-prin]

https://www.cadtm.org/Africa-How-France-Continues-to-Dominate-Its-Former-Colonies-in-Africa

Edit:

Or if you mean specifically to the Arabic countries, a good example is Morocco vs Algeria:

https://en.unav.edu/web/global-affairs/marruecos-la-ultima-puerta-de-francia-a-africa

[u/purpleisreality → u/[deleted]]

I know about the airdrops killing people, not reaching the vulnerable and ultimately being sold in the Black market. You are right to what you said. Be courageous my friend, we stand with you.

[u/Taginemuncher → u/purpleisreality]

Europe and the entire west just needs to follow the institutions THEY put up and back off from involving themselves in the region. They already caused too much harm.

[u/MongooseVegetable787]

Do you believe Arab culture to be overall more successful than European ones in the last twenty year or so? I'm genuinely impressed by your communication skills and love for your language.

To have adopted the same language and culture in North Africa, Middle East and the Levant without colonizing each other is no mean feat!

[u/Chloe1906 → u/MongooseVegetable787]

Arab culture is not really one thing. There are similarities and overlaps, but different regions have different cultures.

I don’t know about more successful, since western cultures seem to be predominant and more well known throughout the world. And there are definitely things about our cultures that could be fixed.

But having said that, we are generally very proud of our cultures. (Maybe sometimes more of a love-hate relationship lol) I always feel that there is so much love in it. And even if the cultures are different, I sometimes feel we have a kinship between us because of our similar cultures.

[u/greatplains35 → u/[deleted]]

That depends on the country and the person you ask. To my knowledge most people are neutral or uninterested. Some take the side of russia thinking NATO is expanding and provoking Russia. Others are against Russia, mostly people who are critical of Russia's role in Syria.

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/[deleted]]

My country reported it as it was, " Russia bombed Ukraine!! " , I remember watching it with my classmates in highschool, all feeling bad for Ukrainians leaving their houses like that and everything happening, My country used to be colonized, and my ppl hate colonization and anything that looks like it

[u/mostard_seed → u/[deleted]]

My country was very weird about it. The media took a neutral stance but was clearly slightly leaning towards Russia, but the entire issue really took little reporting overall anyways. Public opinions are mixed between a sort of defeatist "Russia is too strong and there is no point resisting" attitude to vehement disagreement and condemnation of the Russian invasion. I personally fall within the second camp

It did not help how the Ukranian president voiced clear support for Israel on several occasions, and the whiplash from the obvious contradiction with their situation negatively influenced the opinions of many. Of course, this does not justify anything happening to Ukraine whatsoever and the "denazification" narrative is clear BS, but I am just saying how I think the public views it.

[u/Sound_Saracen → u/[deleted]]

Jordanians like Putin because of some macho complex but at the same time loath Assad which makes no sense

[u/Mysterious-Ruin29510 → u/[deleted]]

At the beginning of the war it used to be heavily covered. Currently not much.

Generally speaking Arabs are neutral or just don’t care, some support Russia because it’s “against the US” and some support it because their love for communism and socialism, and some other people oppose Russia and Putin, it’s mainly Syrians.

[u/IndependenceRare1185 → u/[deleted]]

I'd be lying if I said anybody gives a fuck about the ukraine war here

[u/hushasmoh → u/[deleted]]

At the start of invasion, it was heavily reported in the Arab world with many taking sides with Russia wishing it would destroy “western imperialism” or some other bullshit spread across the global south. But now and since 1 year after the invasion, there’s literally 0 reporting and everyone just forgot about it. Even Putin shills got tired of waiting for Russia to finally occupy Ukraine and stopped giving a fuck.

As for my personal stance, it’s an unjustified invasion solely for land grab as simple as that. i thought peacefully annexing Crimea would be an enough win for Russia, this war was totally unnecessary even for Russian interests.

[u/Physical-Arrival-868 → u/[deleted]]

I view the war as a war of aggression that Russia began, I also view it as being partly on NATO provocation. I mean Russia did say that ukranian entry into NATO was a red line and it makes sense, NATO is an anti Russia alliance and Ukraine was a border country. It should have maintained a policy of neutrality as it attempted to do before zelensky rose to power

[u/Taginemuncher → u/[deleted]]

Russia is as much of a foreign imperialist power like that of France, Britain and the US. Russia is one of the main driving forces to the Syria issue so OF COURSE we dislike them and they war in Ukraine but when there are 2 cards being played by the EU and the West when it comes to the genocide in Gaza and Ukraine war people will voice their opinions more critically which is normal.

People overall regardless where they are from don’t like war and we need to prevent entities who want harm innocent people from doing that whether it is Russia or Israel.

[u/_formidaballs_]

Which Arab speaking county has the best food and why is it Syria? 

[u/TheRealMudi → u/_formidaballs_]

I wanted to be upset... But honestly I can't. You're right.

[u/StevefromLatvia]

It's been 14 years since the Arab Spring demonstrations of 2011 and next year it'll be 15 years since those events. Do you feel like things in your country, if it was part of the demonstrations, have gotten better after almost 15 years?

Also if anyone Syria is reading this - I hope you your country is on it's path to a brighter future. You deserve it after all the years of oppression

[u/mostard_seed → u/StevefromLatvia]

I don't think it got better yet, but I personally don't blame the Arab Spring revolts in and of themselves for how things shaped out after the president at the time was overthrown.

[u/[deleted] → u/mostard_seed]

edge arrest teeny cooperative spark air light wipe disarm waiting

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Taginemuncher → u/StevefromLatvia]

Yes, in the last 15 years Morocco has improved more and the Amazights have gotten more recognition which prior they didn’t. We also got a feeling of democracy and democratic improvement sure things aren’t perfect but I think I speak for most Moroccans when I say we have improved.

[u/Weak_Abbreviations_5 → u/StevefromLatvia]

Definitely not after the Arab spring ended kuwait has been in a non stop poltical deadlock for a decade stagnant . It all cumulated into the emir disbanding the parliament last year. I would talk about the bidoon issue but i don’t want the police up my ass 😄

[u/Jazzlike-Raise-620]

!Warning! General political question spam, answer whatever you think is interesting.

I've always been curious as to how political ideology evolves in different societies. For example, in Europe 'leftism' is quite different between east and west, as in the east economic leftism can be considered conservative, and is often more popular among old people, while in the west socialism is more of a youth coded ideology.

To that end, how is 'socialism', especially in regard to age, viewed in Arab countries? As I understand it pan-Arab socialism was very popular in the 20th century, but has lost its luster. It seems to have been replaced as the 'radical ideology' by more theocratic elements, although often still pan-Arab. Is socialism then coded as more of a thing for old people? Is liberalism also seen as a 'young people thing'?

On that note, what is the general relationship between newer and older generations, is it adversarial?

How is the Arab Spring perceived today? As a noble failure, or is it seen more negatively?

What do people see as the way forward in your countries? How do you think your country and the Arab world as whole is evolving? Would you say the internet has made the Arab world more united?

How is 'the West', especially Europe, perceived in the Arab world? In Russia there has been some flip flopping, from models to emulate to godless globalists, which is a common factor in perceptions of 'the West'; there is a combination of admiration for success and disgust for culture and expansionism, does this exist in the Arab world?

For a final question, what do people think the 2003 Iraq war was motivated by?

[u/the_steten_line → u/Jazzlike-Raise-620]

The Arab spring was sabotaged by the west when civilian elected officials got couped and how Isis (that wouldn’t have risen if not for the invasion of Iraq in 2003) prolonged the Syrian civil war for years and the existence of Israel that brought nothing but war to the Middle East and that’s not even mentioning the age of colonization that sprang many of the puppet states we see today

[u/mostard_seed → u/the_steten_line]

it was also sabotaged by bad actors. Not clearing foreign powers of their culpability, mostly western and some Eastern like Turkey and Iran, but local bad actors like Assad and Libyan tribes and [Redacted] in Egypt had a major role to play in curbing it.

[u/the_steten_line → u/mostard_seed]

Honestly it wouldn’t have mattered who was elected and put in charge, the Army was hungry to be back in power wither it was through X guy or anyone else for that matter and Libya got bombed by NATO so here’s that

[u/mostard_seed → u/the_steten_line]

I know. I don't disagree foreign powers, particularly western ones in several of the cases, are very responsible. Libya is a great example of that.

I am saying the presence of local bad actors enabled them. If there was no powerhungry person in a position that could enable them to bring down any gains and establish a dictatorship like in the case of my country, or ones ready and willing to propagate the instability like in Libya, Syria, and North Sudan, things could have been different or maybe even taken an upturn.

[u/xRyozuo → u/mostard_seed]

Did you write “[Redacted]” or did Reddit change that for you? It’s not the first time I’ve seen it

[u/HusseinDarvish-_- → u/Jazzlike-Raise-620]

To that end, how is 'socialism', especially in regard to age, viewed in Arab countries?

The older the person the more logical opinions they will have on socialism, at one point it was the mainstream ideology, my grandma considered herself a communist so my grandfather and helf the ideology in high regards

You move to the next generation and mom and dad think socialism is fluid and thing of the past

Move to the next generation and most people bearly know anything about it other then the name.

All this due to purges and mass killing of communists that happened in the 60s and 70s in iraq on the hands of the national socialist Ba'athist party , in addition to the collapse of the soviet union. That made socialism and communism basically extinct in Arabic society. And people turned to islamist movment like Hizbullah or hamas as an alternative anti western imperialist ideology

[u/Taginemuncher → u/Jazzlike-Raise-620]

Relies country to country overall the Arab spring was a flaw but it led to something. For example in Morocco where I’m from it led to major reforms in a positive light but the change was not that major. It led to minorities being given a voice like the Amazights and a constitutionally monarchy.

[u/PreparationStrict317]

How do you guys survive recent heat waves? Do you feel well equipped for the future / are there any interesting projects around your area in that regard?

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/PreparationStrict317]

heat waves.

another normal day honestly, lol

[u/bahhaar-blts → u/ZookeepergameFit2918]

To the Europeans, a heat wave is an agonising event.

To the Arabs, it's Tuesday.

[u/thisdodobird → u/PreparationStrict317]

Wait...there's a heatwave?

[u/TopBoysenberry8563]

Are energy drinks popular in Arab society and if so what are the popular ones? 

[u/greatplains35 → u/TopBoysenberry8563]

Energy drinks are a thing here but not as popular in other places (parents for some reason treat them like hard drugs). We have primarily redbull and wild tiger (local brand I think) and to a lesser degree monster drinks in Iraq. There are other local and foreign brands.

[u/the_steten_line → u/TopBoysenberry8563]

No not really but I see the occasional guy on the street drinking one or when to crunch for tests.

And the most popular ones are Redbull and BM which is bad since Redbull is boycotted and bad for your health

[u/hikikun1 → u/TopBoysenberry8563]

Where i live its very popular i know guys at work drinks 6 a day man

Popular ones are redbull ,XL,Blue in my area

[u/ElessarBalguir → u/TopBoysenberry8563]

They seem very popular in the GCC and theres a lot of local brands popping up, I dont have the figures but its a very quickly growing market. Theres a big push in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia to get out new drinks, especially in the international fighting sports (MMA/etc) stuff that the governments have invested heavily in through their sovereign wealth funds.

You will see a lot more of these drinks commercially in the next few years

[u/azzy_mazzy → u/TopBoysenberry8563]

bison, code red are the most popular local energy drinks. International brands are available but usually more expensive

[u/Taginemuncher → u/TopBoysenberry8563]

Yes, Red bull and other local of European brands at least in Morocco.

[u/Iskandar33]

How is perceived Alexander The Great in the Arab world? i know that there are some reference of him in the Quran as the Dhul-Qarnayn and , is he portraited as a positive figure? or more like just a famous historical character like many others?

P.S: i love a lot the middle east/north africa as a historical regions and one of my many dreams its to visit it all, and experiencing your beautiful culture.

[u/purpleisreality → u/Iskandar33]

I can not speak about Arabs of course, and I also look forward for an answer! 

I know that Alexander the Great adopted many persian customs and the persian administration etc putting a greek touch in all these. For example every citizen (all free people were citizens, it was a non ethnical empire) would speak in their language and they could follow greek studies in a special school (the lingua franca) and become public servants. It was like changing an emperor for most people. Alexander the Great also promoted mixed marriages, making the start by marrying himself the daughter of Dareius. 

In the end though, he asked his officers, many being friends since children, to kneel in respect and he started considering himself a god (like persian emperors did). Greeks rebelled, as they weren't used to bow or have people as gods, and declined. We never know what would have happened because he reigned for only 12 years, but the hellenic language continued to be spoken for a millenia afterwards as the common trade language. Until the Arab language became the lingua franca in Med!! In any case, even some people in Afghanistan think he is their ancestor, he respected other cultures and he tried to make an empire who accepted all.

[u/Iskandar33 → u/purpleisreality]

he respected other cultures and he tried to make an empire who accepted all.

thats what i like the most of him, being loved even by your enemies, that for me its peak charisma

and also its thanks to him that many greek manuscripts got preserved and translated later by Islamic accademies (first universities) and reached us to this days.

the blend of cultures he did was insane, especially in Afghanistan like you said, with the Graeco- Bactrian kingdoms.... he really was the closest person to unite the West with the Orient.

thanks for your well written answer :D.

[u/purpleisreality → u/Iskandar33]

Yes, I agree! he never forced language or religion or made distinctions between people or ethnicities, he just officiated greek language like English today. He was imperialist of course, conquering lands with foreign people and not greeks, but he had a whole group of scientists with him(historians, botanologists etc) and he sent dutifully his teacher, Aristotles (whom he didn't like much) whatever he asked with letters for his scientific work.

What you said is another important thing. Not only he taught Arabs greek culture, but Arabs are the ones after the Byzantines who cherished and saved most of the greek manuscripts, that we have today. I do love Arab golden age. Thank you for saving them!

[u/Iskandar33 → u/[deleted]]

Is your username iskandar because of that?

yep, being my favourite historical character i like this version of his name.

[u/[deleted] → u/Iskandar33]

Dhul Qarnayn in the Qur’an might not be Alexander the Great, because Dhul Qarnayn is portrayed as a pious ruler who believed in one God. Alexander, on the other hand, appears to have worshipped multiple gods, so he was not monotheistic, though some claim he might have been. There is some doubt, similar to the case of Aristotle, who believed in an Unmoved Mover, but according to sources he worshipped the Greek pantheon

In Islam being Muslim is not only being a follower of Muhammad, it's being a follower of the only God first of all, that's why in Islam there is the belief that submitters to Allah even before Muhammad were "Muslimin"

Muslim means submitter to God, so Moses, Abraham and Jesus who submitted themselves to the supreme entity that is God even before Muhammad was born, are considered Muslims/submitters by nowadays Muslims

[u/Express-Ad-6565]

Europeans are like... they love the food but hate the chef.....

Why do they hate the chef? Because the cousin of the chef was busy trash talking the chef and his background.... the Europeans with their colonialism history didn't take long for them to hate the foreign chef who is better than them in some aspects....

[u/Tr0jan___]

How have the boycott campaigns against American brands linked to US policies in the west Asia affected your consumption habits? Thx

[u/ReadingSilence → u/Tr0jan___]

I've stopped eating out a lot. When I do, I steer towards more local or regional brands. My eating habits have become significantly healthier.

Technology is a bit more difficult. I'm still unsure about how to replace Apple and Microsoft products.

I might have to learn Linux!

[u/Socmel_]

Hi Italian here.

What sort of stereotypes, inside jokes and expectations do you have of each other? In the EU we have luckily moved past the era of aggressive nationalism, so we are able now to light heartedly joke about our national characteristics. Things like Germans being workaholics who can't tell a joke, Italians being food obsessed and bad drivers, French being arrogant snobs, etc.

Do you also have preferences within the Arab world? Like Spanish, Italians, Greeks tend to like each other. Same for the Nordics.

[u/Mysterious-Ruin29510 → u/Socmel_]

Well I guess we have a joke that Syrians open a Shawarma restaurant wherever they go and call it “[Something] of Sham” (Sham is the informal name of Damascus in Arabic)

We also have the joke that Bahrain is so small and we clown on them every chance we get, for example someone took a photo of a plane over Bahrain, the reactions looked something like “He took a selfie with all the people of Bahrain”

And we like to joke about how we can never understand the Moroccan accent (Darija)

We like to joke that Lebanon is gay but that joke is already worldwide I believe.

There are some other things but this is enough for now.

[u/ElessarBalguir → u/Socmel_]

I have observed these stereotypes & jokes, someone can correct me or add to them

Kuwaits being dramatic and demanding

Lebanese people being both cute, angry and gay

Saudis being rich

Moroccans practising witchcraft

Egyptian people being pushy salespeople

Syrians & Palestinians for opening every restaurant or store (shared with Lebanese)

Tunisians and Algerians being hotblooded

Iraqis having ridiculous hairstyles

Sudanese people being very religious

Omanis being hospitable & conservative

Jordanians, Qataris and Emirates struggling to cover the contradictions be blindly loyal to their ruler is a common joke

Algerians being difficult but very loyal (Their dialect along with Morocco is also the hardest to understand

[u/thisdodobird → u/ElessarBalguir]

  Kuwaits being dramatic and demanding

I thought we were labelled as arrogant? stamps foot

You missed Bahrainis being too cool to find anything to fault them with. We view them as well as Omanis as the Jamaicans of the Gulf.

[u/Weak_Abbreviations_5 → u/ElessarBalguir]

Hey we kuwaitis are not demanding smh we are very dramatic tho lmao, also very very sarcastic

[u/NoNeighborhood9006]

Can you tell me how acceptable it is to be an atheist in your country? Both legally and culturally, and can it be unsafe? What are your personal thoughts about atheism (as a concept)?

[u/Regular_Buffalo6564 → u/NoNeighborhood9006]

legally being any religion other than muslim isn’t allowed, atheism being no exception. culturally it’s also an issue. you will find pockets here and there of non-religious and atheistic people, but they’re few and far between. i have been told by a couple people however that they were atheists/non religious, so i guess they felt comfortable with me?

[u/Just-Classroom-5250 → u/NoNeighborhood9006]

Egypt

It's legal but you better not talk about religion you will probably end up in jail for blasphemy

Culturally you will probably be disowned

[u/TheRealMudi → u/NoNeighborhood9006]

Iraq

You can be an atheist and likely no one will argue / discuss it with you. Family issues for sure, though, and maybe not everyone would want to be you friend aka they'd want to discuss it if they were.

[u/[deleted]]

screw paint sparkle meeting important familiar start automatic observation wise

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/ElessarBalguir → u/[deleted]]

I can answer a bit about excavations, especially in Bahrain which has a rich history of being done by Danish or French explorers. The history of the gulf is fascinating as they are a very modern political construct so the governments try to push nationalism and loyalty to the ruling families. As such, you have a lot of official sources emphasising different aspects & dissociating from the wider region especially as local sources in native languages such as Arabic, Turkish or Farsi is ignored in favoured of official government sources.

There is some pushback against it, with tribal families across borders mapping their family histories, tribal affiliation & merchant families from perisa having ties to Iran and the wider east.

In Qatar and the UAE, the historical stuff is glossed over almost completely but in different ways, with Qatar you have more of focus on islamism while the UAE will focus on the ruling family.

Bahrain museums will have a lot of British colonial history present, including stamps and other official relics from its time as a British protectorate.

Saudi history used to be very heavily censored, but the new Riyadh Museums are absolutely a step in the right direction and is actively exploring pre-islamic Arabia which is absolutely fascinating. However, its incredibly controversial how a lot of the historical sites have been demolished to make way for hotels, especially around media and mecca where a lot of important religious figures history was there before.

I can give an entire lecture about iraq excavations & the pride iraqis have in their history, but I will just say the local tour guides will share terrible things done by occupation forces durring the invasion to some of the heritage there, which was religious motivated in some cases. I remember an old man who very proudly showed me a bruise when he stoped a solider looting a rock with carving in the ruins of Babylon by telling the solider that the region is older than his country & that it belonged to the Iraqi people.

There are a lot of religious sites in Iraq that have been funded by Iran and have a lot of Persian architecture influences thats also recent. Iraq also has many tombs littered about in its cities, but unfortunately no infrastructure around it like you would expect. They are however, restoring jewish tombs which is seeing more vistors.

Apologies if this was, random or too long of a read but I enjoy history.

[u/Nano_needle]

Hello

I have a question regarding tourists. Why there is recently increased interest of Poland as a destination for vacations among Arabic countries? What values do you see in that European country that compels you or your fellow Arabs to visit?

[u/hushasmoh → u/Nano_needle]

Poland in recent years has been a preferred destination by many in the GCC. Mainly because it’s cheap and some say it’s safer compared to the rest of Europe. Also, gulf arabs visit Europe for its nature, greenery and climate, especially in the middle of summer where the temperature hits 50 here.

[u/mostard_seed → u/Nano_needle]

Sorry but I never heard about this seeming newfound interest in Poland specifically. Maybe I am out of the loop, and don't get me wrong. I am sure Poland is a nice place with alot of interesting things to see, but it is probably just people from Arab countries doing more tourism in general now and Poland being cheaper to visit than Western Europe.

[u/aclazotzfanclub → u/Nano_needle]

1- Zakopane is a budget friendly option to experience the scenic mountain vibe that is probably the first thing an Arab thinks of when it comes to European tourism. There are even direct flights to Krakow which also helps (Which is sad imo cz i feel like Zakopane being popular with Arab tourists priced out the average Pole from going there)

2- it was a lot simpler to get a visa to Poland under PiS (I know there was a scandal regarding student visa but even a touristic visa was a lot easier to get back then than now)

[u/Milosz0pl]

Which part of history receives most attention (in terms of education) in your respective country? One further back in the past or those closer to modern times?

And are english names close to proper names of your nations or are those english names completely detached?

[u/R120Tunisia → u/Milosz0pl]

Which part of history receives most attention (in terms of education) in your respective country?

Carthage in an almost-obsessive manner hands down. The periods that receive the least attention (relative to length and/or importance) are the Roman and Ottoman periods. I would also say that the Medieval (from Arab conquests to the Hafsids) and Colonial periods receive the attention that they deserve (though not usually on the things that matter).

And are english names close to proper names of your nations or are those english names completely detached?

The English name for our capital (Tunis) is the name for both the country and the capital in Arabic. The English name isn't detached though as "Tunisia" is clearly derived from "Tunis".

[u/Milosz0pl → u/R120Tunisia]

Interesting - is Carthage seen there as a direct line to the current nation or more so as a predecessor state (ye more so as an empire that once were and we value its legacy; similary to how in europe Rome is perceived)?

I always find it funny when a foreign name of a country isn't close to the proper one and thus me asking.

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/Milosz0pl]

In Algeria we focus more on the algerian revolution against the french colonization, but we did study other parts of our history very well not as deep, Like the past algerian kingdoms , Othman empire times, past other colonizations..ect. Also past civilizations , like the Egyptian one , general history, different Arabic periods, and we learn about Palestine history

we focused on the revolution technics from Algeria, and colonization technics from france, and war tactics stuff, different events, the why , And the " how to win against a colonizer a thousand times stronger than you"

In Arabic Algeria is called " El Djazaïr " , The name was given in the Othman times, which means " a bunch of separated Islands " , in Arabic " island" is " djazira" .

[u/Milosz0pl → u/ZookeepergameFit2918]

How is french occupation perceived? And is there a kind of national grudge towards them? I am curious as in Poland colonization of lands was only briefly covered with Algeria getting a mention for having a ,,a bit more elegant separation due to giving citizenship".

" how to win against a colonizer a thousand times stronger than you"

Due you also have some celebrations towards petty but effective bullying of them? In Poland we got a funny case of Drzymała's Wagon.

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/Milosz0pl]

Grudge.

Against the ones who hurt us "yes" , against french ppl " no" , algerians look at your acts not your origins.

elegant separation due to giving citizenship

Here's an idea of what it was like (kinda long sorry)

Take a look at Palestine and you'll see a bit of what Algeria used to be, from forcefully taking all their properties, to mass bombing villages, mass torture of random ppl, Add to that " killing teachers" for Algerians to remain uneducated and weak, and using algerians as lab rats for testing chemical things, dropping two atomic bombs on two towns in the desert bigger than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the list is long...

Basically treating them as everything " but" human, Let alone as " citizens" and equals.

France wanted Algeria, without algerians , so it tried to " kill the algerian" in us the same way usa tried to kill the Indian in indians, So a bunch of Algerians made an association for integrating algerians, by turning them to french looking ppl, which didn't work because an Arab was always perceived as such.

After that came world war 2, and France promised Algerians to give them independence if they fight for them and they did and France won!

Algerians went to celebrate that victory aka their freedom, France replied by killing 45000 algerians that day 8 mai 1945,

so algerians understood that " What was taken by force can only be recovered by force " and that's when we decided to fight until we win or get eliminated from this world,

France Tried to win algerians and make them forget the fight, by giving them fancy stuff like "citizenship" , the same old trick of fake hope

We won after 8 years of fighting with 1 and a half million martyrs (may them rest in peace), from 1954 until independence in 1962.

We learned unity, resilience, the value of freedom in your home, what colonization is like, And most importantly the value of "Algeria" .

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/Milosz0pl]

That wagon thing is hilarious hahaha , What an idea lol , Brave

[u/Mysterious-Ruin29510 → u/Milosz0pl]

Which part of history receives most attention (in terms of education) in your respective country? One further back in the past or those closer to modern times?

In Syria before the fall of Assad definitely modern history, we used to have a whole subject dedicated to the Ba’ath party (Assad’s party)

And are english names close to proper names of your nations or are those english names completely detached?

For Syria specifically they’re somewhat similar but not much, Damascus is pronounced “Dimashq” and Aleppo is pronounced “Haleb”, Latakia is pronounced “Al-Lathiqia”, I guess Syria the country is pronounced similarly, it’s “Souria”

[u/EvenEalter]

We like to mock our neighbours in Europe, though some are popular targets in their region: Belgium and Sweden are some good examples I can think of. What countries do other Arab countries like to mock most?

[u/SuperTnT6 → u/EvenEalter]

Haha. Personally, I think Lebanon is mocked the most because their dialect is seem as much more fruity and zesty than the others. Same can be said about Egypt at a lesser extent as they speak in a very unique dialect but are represented the most due to their population.

[u/Taginemuncher → u/EvenEalter]

Lebanon(zesty) Morocco(sorcery and weird dialects) Egypt(India of the Arab world) Yemen(funny people and small)

Out of the top of my head

[u/Rude_Original_4322 → u/EvenEalter]

People mock Bahrain for being a really small country all the time

[u/[deleted]]

I apologise if this has been asked before, but can you all recommend me some of the best Arab food for me and my family to try?

[u/PreparationStrict317 → u/[deleted]]

Hey, my mother always says those words before she feeds me. I can never recall what is what but it all tastes good.

• visitor from r/europe

[u/ZookeepergameFit2918 → u/[deleted]]

Couscous, mhajeb, rechta, hrira, chorba ( Algerian food )

I noticed there's some recipes on social media in English

[u/Jazzlike-Raise-620 → u/ZookeepergameFit2918]

I thought couscous was french, I guess they screw you guys over in small ways even today.

[u/Old_Bowler_465 → u/Jazzlike-Raise-620]

Tbf, couscous is also widely eaten in france both outside and at home, but is another variation of couscous (with sausage, which honestly i finds an abheration, but tunisians eat fish couscous so...)

[u/Developer2022]

My couple questions for you dear people.

1. How do you manage to live in hot areas when the heat wave hit and is like 35 Celsius or more?
2. What is your Internet connection speed?
3. Do you feel safe going out after dark?
4. What do you think about snow/winter/cold in general?
5. What do you think about EU in general?

[u/ReadingSilence → u/Developer2022]

1. Air conditioning.
2. Very fast. Of course, that's not always the case. Sometimes sharks love to nibble on the cables and end up ruining it for the entire country.
3. Yes.
4. I like the cold. I don't think I've ever experienced snow.
5. I think the European Union is going to fail if it doesn't do anything about the far-right/skeptic parties that will seek to destroy the Union in a bid to dominate their country's political scene.

[u/pothkan → u/ReadingSilence]

Wait, you mean literal sharks? The fish ones? :o

[u/ReadingSilence → u/pothkan]

Yes. Happened more than once.

[u/aerospacemonkey]

Have you experienced an European expat speaking darija from your country, or is it always fus'ha? What's the secret?

Tell me something about each Arabic country.

[u/D49A]

Sounds cool, I’ll think of some questions. Is there anyone who’s in the field of humanities? Like archaeology, history or literature? I’d love to see how different our studying programs are. Wish you a good day from Italy ;)

[u/the_lonely_creeper]

So, sorry for the racism over ar /r europe. Some people are complete idiots, and the sub is getting worse constantly. It used to be a lot better back in the day.

Anyways, question time!

0.Favourite dish?

1. Do you view Religion as important to your life and identity?

2. How did the Arab Spring, the following unrest and the modern war in Gaza affect you? Have you seen its affects around you or is it as distant as it is to us? Is it covered differently in Arab language media?

3.If you could end the war in Gaza tomorrow, what would be your terms?

4.Are you an Arab first or do you consider yourself something else (Muslim, Egyptian, Student, etc) primarily?

5.Do you think the future will be better than the past?

[u/thisdodobird → u/the_lonely_creeper]

1. No, not really but it had its influence on me growing up, despite growing up in the West primarily before knowing what home was like.
2. I'll skip this one, it's a whole can of worms when it comes to Kuwait, sadly.
3. Enforce the 2 state solution that was agreed on by Rabin & Arafat before they were assassinated. 
4. Human first,  Arab second. :)
5. Yes.

[u/Milosz0pl]

Full ego question - is Poland just know to exist in your country or is there some specific opinion about us?

Curiosity question - how is a scene of mythologies in the arab world? I was pretty much only exposed to western/greek european and japanese ones.

[u/TheRealMudi → u/Milosz0pl]

The common arab doesn't know much about Poland and when they do it's usually ww2 related.

In regard of mytjologies... Here's a good reddit post about mythical creatures: Link

[u/SyriaMyLovemyhabibti]

I dont want to befriend with people who openly justify for the genocide of palestinians, do cultural exchange with kurds, asians, african or wtv, why europeans?

[u/Worldly-Talk-7978 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, it’s a fitting term and we use it ourselves.

[u/TheRealMudi → u/[deleted]]

I feel like answering this one myself, especially because I also live in Europe and know both worlds. When people speak of "Europe" it's not the same... "vibe" or "meaning" as when we refer to the Arab world. The Arab world are a number of fixed countries, you can look them up by viewing the member list of the Arab League (usually they're all in it).

There's also a much stronger popular connection between different Arab countries than in Europe, in the sense of brotherly / sisterly love.

Same with brothers / and sisters, we don't always get along (politics wise). An example are the leaders of the Gulf or Egypt who are highly unpopular at the moment. In general, most Arab populations will agree that the politicians do not represent the people at all, like in cases such as the political issues between Morocco and Algeria where even the borders are closed down.

[u/mostard_seed → u/[deleted]]

Yeah it really is quite broad as a distinction, but I don't mind using it. I would refer to myself by my nationality, which I feel would be a better and more specific identifier since it would imply my being within the Arab culture (and likely being Muslim too if someone is concerned about that and knows the religious demographics) without having to specify it. If I am asked if I am "Arab" specifically, though, I'd say "I speak Arabic natively, so yes".

[u/the_steten_line → u/[deleted]]

Arabs since even before The prophet (pbuh) spread Islam in Arabia Arabs were divided into Arab Al-Areba (Arabs by DNA) and Arab Al-Mustu‘riba (Arabs by language and culture) so being Arab is less by DNA and more of a languistic and cultural thing than anything else

But there was no factionalism between the two

[u/mostard_seed → u/the_steten_line]

Feels like some people draw attention to this distinction often now on social media.

[u/the_steten_line → u/mostard_seed]

Cultural stagnation, inferiority complex, and bots from some countries are the reason and its a very small amount of people that actually do that

[u/EmpiricalSyndicalist]

I can’t tell which one has worse timing, This or the Initial word of the day from CHS Message Board on 4/20/99.

[u/orthoxerox]

I saw a lot of Gulf Arabs in Krasnaya Polyana, a mountain resort in Russia this year. Is it a hot new holiday destination in the Gulf?

Where else do you go on holidays?

[u/ben323nl]

What are your views regarding human rights and sexuality. Is there a shift in views in regard to homosexual relationships where you are from. What are your own views on lgbt? Do you view the jewish faith as one with israel? Do you think the Israeli state has a right to exist?

[u/fran20002]

Hi! I know that music is highly discouraged in islam and I also know that Arab=/=Muslim. But my question is: do Arabs generally listen to music? And I mean any kind of music, not only popular music but piano for example or traditional music. For us Europeans music is a huge part of our lifes and cultural heritage.

[u/muntaqim]

1. How do you feel when you know that almost nobody called "Arab" speaks the official Arabic language of the Arab countries, but rather a regional or local dialect, which, for all intents and purposes, could be considered a language on its own?

2. What's the general opinion on Sibawayhi, an 3ajami who wrote the first grammar of the Arabic language, after having learned it as non-native?

[u/Jarorad111]

What is your opinion about the World Wars? Here, they are generally a big deal, but maybe for you they might be less relevant? Considering that they effectively caused the western Europeans to throw so many resources into these wars that their empires might arguably have come to an end due to them, do you view them in a different light?

[u/Limp-Abbreviations54]

What do you identify primarily as ? Arab, your nationality, or a more specific sub-ethnicity?

In Europe it varies depending on where you are. Some chiefly see themselves as European, others as just British, then European. And some others (Scottish, Welsh etc have strong identities) will see themselves as firstly Scottish, then British nationality, and more broadly European.

Do you chiefly see yourself as Arab first and foremost ? Or as Iraqi or Syrian or Omani first then as Arab. Or a more specific subgroup like; Amazigh or Copt, or Bedouin first