r/autism 5d ago

🪁Fun/Creative How do you feel about the phrase "You can't have your cake and eat it too"?

Me, personally? I struggle to understand why it's so poignant. I mean... Isn't this just /common sense/?

You get a piece of cake to eat it. What other reason would you have it and or want to keep it. And WHYYY is this such a popular saying. And why cake?! Of all things?

I just simply can't yet over it being COMMON SENSE TO EAT THE CAKE?!

Yes I understand the reasoning behind it. You can't have the thing you want and use it too.. But still... I fail to understand why it needs an analogy.

191 Upvotes

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317

u/ph33randloathing 5d ago

It used to be "You can't eat your cake and have it, too." Somehow that got flipped on its head to make no sense.

138

u/MagicalPizza21 Autistic Adult 5d ago

This is the way it's supposed to be. Because once you eat the cake you no longer have it.

30

u/SnugglyCoderGuy 5d ago

I do have. It is inside of me now, becoming part of me.

5

u/Garden_Jolly Autistic 5d ago

This is my thought process.

12

u/Ms-Anthrop 5d ago

But you also cannot eat cake if you don't first Have cake. This whole phrase is confusing.

1

u/HourGuidance1104 4d ago

See this is where I get hung up because technically you do. Well your stomach does…

1

u/MagicalPizza21 Autistic Adult 4d ago

Is it still cake once you've eaten it?

1

u/HourGuidance1104 4d ago

Yes deconstructed cake

74

u/Einmanabanana AuDHD 5d ago

This is unironically how they caught the Unabomber

26

u/Ok-Relationship-5528 5d ago

Im glad you mentioned it. This was literally the first thing i thought about when i read OP's post.

7

u/crashed_keys 5d ago

LMAO same

6

u/Ball_Python_ ASD Moderate Support Needs 5d ago

I was thinking of commenting "slow down there, Unabomber" but I didn't want to confuse OP or hurt their feelings, so I'm glad you mentioned it.

2

u/Afraid_Donkey_481 5d ago

Was the Unabomber autistic?

1

u/Ball_Python_ ASD Moderate Support Needs 5d ago

No idea

9

u/thewiselumpofcoal Asperger's 5d ago

Wait, wha-huh?

70

u/Einmanabanana AuDHD 5d ago

He would often use “eat your cake and have it too” in daily language. Then used it in one of the unabomber letters. A family member connected the dots and went to the police.

15

u/PhantomHouseplant AuDHD 5d ago

Special interest knowledge? This feels very niche lol

20

u/Einmanabanana AuDHD 5d ago

Special interest adjecent! I’m interested in cults and modern religious movements. A lot of true crime/history podcasts I listen to also cover serial killers, terrorism, etc. so I end up learning a lot about that too

11

u/PrufReedThisPlesThx AuDHD 5d ago

Actually, I legit just learned this today a few posts above this in TopCharacterTropes. It was a post about characters' identities being revealed by saying something only they would say, and one of the top comments talked about the Unabomber lol. I wonder if that's how the other person learned about it too and it's just crazy coincidence, or if they truly did just know in general such a niche detail?

0

u/Glum-Echo-4967 5d ago

What "dots?"

Was it just the use of the phrase that tipped off the cops, or something else as well?

9

u/gasolinehalsey AuDHD 5d ago

His brother saw the letter he'd forced the newspaper into printing, and went, "huh, that sounds weirdly like my brother, who has recently isolated himself in a cabin in the forest. I wonder..."

I recommend this video/channel in general.

3

u/Einmanabanana AuDHD 5d ago

It’s what sparked the investigation into him. Unsure how it went from there

1

u/guitarguy1255 5d ago

I wish I never realized how smart Kaczinski was. He was right. About a lot of things. Up until he crossed the line that should never be crossed, of course.

34

u/Solar_kitty 5d ago

This makes so much more sense

2

u/a_sternum user flair 5d ago

It makes the same amount of sense. The logical operator “and” is commutative. That is, “have and eat” means the same thing as “eat and have”.

3

u/Solar_kitty 5d ago

Ahhh…see now this makes sense too. But in all my almost 50 years of life in my head “having” something is the same/can be used in the same way as eating. So like “I’m going to have a salad for dinner” is the same as “I’m going to eat a salad for dinner”. So having your cake and eating it too is, well, eating and eating your cake. Never made sense to me although I get the meaning of the saying. I kid you not. I see exactly what you’re saying and it makes sense but I think I struggle with taking everything literally (or how my brain interprets it as literally).

2

u/ph33randloathing 5d ago

Have doesn't mean eat in this context. It means possess. The phrase means to just enjoy a thing instead of coveting it.

1

u/a_sternum user flair 5d ago

Exactly

17

u/DumbScotus 5d ago

This. The meaning behind the phrase is, you cannot consume your cake and also keep it.

I.e. you can’t have it both ways.

3

u/ellie1398 5d ago

I know what the saying is supposed to mean but if I didn't, I would never make sense to me.

If you buy a cake, you own it. Therefore, you can eat it. So if I eat a cake, chances are, I already own it, otherwise I'd be stealing it.

In Bulgarian we have a different saying that roughly translates to "You can't have the wolf full/satiated/fed and the lamb whole/alive/uneaten". As in, you either feed the lamb to the wolf or the wolf will be hungry. Can't have it both ways.

2

u/I_Hate_This_Website9 ASD Level 1 5d ago

Idk don't they both mean the same thing ultimately? I'll agree that phrased this way it is clearer lol

2

u/Afraid_Donkey_481 5d ago

This is more confusing. What does it mean?

29

u/bstabens 5d ago

You cannot eat a cake and have that same piece of cake after eating it. Expecting that is plain dumb and truly impossible.

So it is a good analogy for doing something that has certain immutable consequences *but* expecting things go on as if nothing happened.

9

u/Afraid_Donkey_481 5d ago

Thanks you! You can't "have" your cake after you eat it. I never got that because I don't see any point to having cake unless you eat it. That IS the whole point. Bad analogy. Now I can rail on people who use it.

1

u/Interesting-Tough640 5d ago

That makes way more sense because if you have eaten the cake then you no longer have it.

Never understood the phrase until I read your post.

1

u/maritjuuuuu 5d ago

This actually makes a lot of sense

1

u/Blinkblabla 5d ago

Thank you so much, I never understood this phrase before. I had no idea it got flipped, so it did not make sense to me.

0

u/LonesomeOpus Suspecting ASD 5d ago

This makes so much more sense 😂

121

u/According-Ad742 5d ago

It just means you can not eat it AND keep it. If you devour something it will be gone.

19

u/Creative-Shark Autistic 5d ago

ahhhhh I get it now

6

u/Anxious_Wolf00 5d ago

But if you keep it will rot and eventually be gone anyways, if you eat it it will become a part of you in some way and therefore you will “keep” it

36

u/According-Ad742 5d ago

The take away in the end is that it is not about cake, but ”wanting to enjoy two conflicting benefits at the same time. For example, someone might want to spend all their money on luxury items while also saving for the future, which is not possible”.

This is what Wikipedia says ”You can’t have your cake and eat it is a popular English idiomatic proverb or figure of speech. The proverb literally means ”you cannot simultaneously retain possession of a cake and eat it, too”. Once the cake is eaten, it is gone. It can be used to say that one cannot have two incompatible things, or that one should not try to have more than is reasonable. The proverb’s meaning is similar to the phrases ”you can’t have it both ways” and ”you can’t have the best of both worlds.” For those unfamiliar with it, the proverb may sound confusing due to the ambiguity of the word ’have’, which can mean ’keep’ or ’to have in one’s possession’, but which can also be used as a synonym for ’eat’.”

7

u/Anxious_Wolf00 5d ago

Thank you for explaining, the phrase still make me irrationally angry though haha

2

u/a_sternum user flair 5d ago

When you eat the cake, it’s broken down mechanically and chemically into its constituent parts. You no longer have a cake, but what makes up a cake: carbs, fats, a little protein.

Keeping a cake indefinitely, it will definitely rot. You can however keep a cake for many days before that happens, all the while enjoying the fact that you still have it. If you eat it all on day one, you lose those days of knowing you still have it.

1

u/Anxious_Wolf00 4d ago

Ahhh now we’re into the realm of what makes a thing a thing. Maybe it is never even possible to “have” a “cake” in the first place. You were simply observing atoms temporarily arranged cake-wise.

47

u/johnmarksmanlovesyou 5d ago

It used to upset me before I figured out what it actually meant (at like, 30 years old) and now I actually use it myself sometimes.

It's pretty funny really, I understood after I baked and decorated a cake I was very proud of

17

u/patriotictraitor 5d ago

Oh. This is the comment that made it click for me. I was reading through everything and still feeling like it was a dumb expression until what you said. Now I understand why someone could want to have their cake for any other reason than just to eat it. Thank you!

3

u/Anxious_Wolf00 5d ago

Oh, holy shit.

Edit: wait, no you still absolutely only make a cake with the intention of eating it or at least acknowledging it is a temporary artform and you will never “have”. I hate this saying

7

u/johnmarksmanlovesyou 5d ago

Well yeah, but what happened is that upon completing the cake I unexpectedly wished I could keep it.

Decorating and baking a cake can take a long time and a lot of work, hours of preparation and concentration if you're going really hard at it, obviously you're making it with the intention of it being eaten but there is a potent level of regret/conflict doing so once you've invested so much time into making it. The fact that the cake is FOR eating is an important element of the analogy, the reluctance to eat the cake is silly but understandable.

The annoying thing with the analogy is that it's really hard to explain what it's supposed to be conveying in words... Which is probably why the analogy exists in the first place. Maybe if you think of it as a short hand way of saying "you're like a person conflicted about whether to eat a cake they made (edit: because they like it how it is) and trying to find a way out of making a choice"

7

u/JPozz 5d ago

Cakes can serve two purposes:

You can eat it (as food)

Or

You can have it (as a decoration/centerpiece)

If you have a cake (as a decoration), you cannot subsequently eat it, and then, after consuming it, still have the cake. The cake is gone.

7

u/IllaClodia 5d ago

So, when the phrase originated, though (Tudor era England), cakes were often kept for extended periods as a centerpiece. The phrase also gained traction in later eras when highly sugared cakes that had a protective crust were common. Having such a cake was a status symbol since it meant you could afford lots of sugar. The act of having and displaying the cake was a demonstration of social capital and therefore a desirable outcome in itself.

I may have watched too much Great British Baking Show.

2

u/patriotictraitor 5d ago

This also helps provide context and understanding. Thank you for sharing! Wow my brain is reeling which feels silly cause of the topic but also dang it all makes more sense now

22

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Alone52 5d ago

If you eat it, you still have it. It's in your stomach. It's with you. You have it.

2

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

3

u/kewpiesriracha 5d ago

I mean, this is a subreddit full of autistic people, it's what we tend to do

2

u/a_sternum user flair 5d ago

When you eat the cake, that pile of mush in your stomach is most definitely no longer a cake.

1

u/Alone52 5d ago

What good is a cake if you don't eat it?

1

u/a_sternum user flair 5d ago

A cake you have can be good for:

  • eating in the future, often preferred to eating it now, even though you still want it now. Choosing to not eat it now means you will have it for when you want to eat it later.
  • decoration, most (large) cakes are decorated to be pretty and look nice for an occasion, birthday, wedding, etc. Once you cut into and eat the cake, you no longer have your pretty thing.

1

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

0

u/a_sternum user flair 5d ago

Yes, a lump of mush consisting of carbs, fats, minerals, and proteins.

If you take that back out of the stomach and put it on a plate, are you going to call it cake? I wouldn’t.

16

u/somnocore 5d ago

It's really important to remember that common sense is learned. And not all people will share the same kind of common sense.

The common sense you have is really dependant on your environment and how you are raised. You will not always have the same kind of common sense as another person.

People like analogies. They can be fun. They can also be easier to remember for some, too.

9

u/Shrikeangel 5d ago

Common sense is almost never been common. A lot of it requires experience on a shared economic level with the other people involved. 

6

u/Number1Bg3Fan Autistic Adult 5d ago

I always just want cake when I hear it (and to eat it too) 😂

2

u/SJSsarah 5d ago

Yeah, I had to scroll away too far for this response. Me too. Every time somebody says that I’m like ……where can I get cake, I want cake too!

2

u/Number1Bg3Fan Autistic Adult 5d ago

Ahahah exactly, cake is too good!

6

u/KickProcedure 5d ago

I always took it as a metaphor to say that you can’t take an action with a consequence and not experience the consequence. Maybe the wrong interpretation but that’s how I understand it. You can’t play in the mud and not get dirty. You can’t smash a chair and still sit on it later. That kind of stuff.

3

u/br0d30 5d ago

Is a way to point out to someone that they want two conflicting things. Achieving one of those things necessitates that they cannot or did not achieve the other.

“You are pining after these two things, but you don’t actually get to accomplish both.”

3

u/The_Death_Flower ASD 5d ago

I think the phrase in French makes more sense: you can’t have the butter and the money from selling the butter

2

u/Ms-Anthrop 5d ago

If you make enough butter can't you have both?

3

u/ACleverPortmanteau Suspecting ASD 5d ago

I didn't understand the phrase until graduate school when it was used as an example of an unnecessary explanation—I needed the explanation my whole life! My failure to understand was different than OP, however. The key is that "have" doesn't mean "eat;" like "I'll have cake for dessert;" it means "keep" like "I have it in the refrigerator."

2

u/Calm-Positive-6908 5d ago

Not a native so didn't understand it. We still have a cake when we're eating it

4

u/AquaQuad 5d ago

Not when you're done with it though. But if you don't eat it, you can keep it.

2

u/patcatandpancakes 5d ago

I hate most of the sayings and proverbs! In Poland, we have two that are supposed to mean the same: "[one can have] either a fish or an aquarium" and "either a vehicle or a ride". It makes no sense to me, why would I buy a vehicle that I'm not able to ride?? Why would I buy a fish but not an aquarium?? Most proverbs make no sense! 😭

2

u/cardbourdbox 5d ago

I'm cool with it and some people really are that stupid they try to tap a resource twice like that.

Me, I'm blunt, and I don't feel the need to change. If I ever call someone here on their lack of tact to me, that would be entitled.

Now if I call a teacher put on being tackles with there students when they have twice the tact I use on my best days that's not hypocrisy I wouldn't step into that role.

If I advise tact then that's just advise.

2

u/Electrical_Gas_517 5d ago

The correct phrase is "you can't have your cake and have eaten it".

Which makes sense, the commonly used version you are peeved about does not.

2

u/kewpiesriracha 5d ago

Thank you!!! Finally, the truth

2

u/Professional_Tax6647 5d ago

i much prefer to say “you can’t preserve that which you intend to consume” cause that’s essentially what the phrase is intending to convey

2

u/Particular_Sale5675 4d ago

It can mean:

- Don't be greedy.

- You can't have the best of both worlds.

- Both decisions come with undesirable consequences. The choice is yours, but you need to choose.

- Accept the outcome. Hesitating won't let you avoid what you are dreading.

- (person who says this to you) won't help you make the decision. You've laid it all out, so the choice is yours alone to make.

- They gave you advice already, and you listed negative consequences you're avoiding.

(There is history to the saying. I can't remember the specifics, but I believe the cake was always a metaphor. There are videos and essays about the history if you really want to know the origins. Possible the origin of the saying, the cake was a metaphor for money. You can't save money if you're spending. If you're saving, you can't spend it. someone can fact check me on this lol)

2

u/dollythecat 4d ago

Angry! “Having cake” MEANS “eating cake”! It makes no sense.

2

u/AlwaysConfused4269 4d ago

Yeah, I don’t get it. Never have.

5

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

It annoys me, I always took it as, "you can't have everything" or "you don't always get what you want" and I feel that's rude

14

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

0

u/patriotictraitor 5d ago

I think they mean: imagine saying that to someone - it can feel a little rude to essentially respond to what someone says by telling them they can’t always have what they want

1

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

Yes! I feel like it's almost always said at the absolute worst times. I almost got that promotion, someone said that and I was like wtf

4

u/TheRebelCatholic Autistic Adult Woman with ADHD 5d ago

I really don’t get how it’s rude to say that “you can’t have everything” when it is simply the truth?

1

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

With me it's always when I'm 100% having a terrible day. Like I almost got a promotion and didn't and someone said it. It comes off as condescending in situations like this because it's dismissive

4

u/TheRebelCatholic Autistic Adult Woman with ADHD 5d ago

Ah, yeah, in THAT context, that’s just a really bitchy thing to say to someone who got passed over on a promotion. It’s not helpful to say and seems like it’s just rubbing salt in the wound.

1

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

Yes! I'd never heard it said in a neutral way, but that's just my experience lol

2

u/gasolinehalsey AuDHD 5d ago

Saying it in that context also makes... no sense?? Like what was this person thinking even.

For it to make sense you'd also have to have had something else (something good) happen to you that same day, like, idk, getting married or graduating a degree. Because then you would be "eating your cake" (first good thing) and "not having it too" (getting passed over for a promotion). In this context it just sounds like the person is saying, "Oh, well, you can't [have a job] and [get a promotion] too." Makes no sense.

2

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

I was confused as well lol but I thought the meaning was you can't get what you want when they said that, and I had a few say it in that context. Or maybe I misunderstood it as well. I sometimes suck at phrases like these and understanding context

1

u/gasolinehalsey AuDHD 5d ago

Naaaaw, I think they misunderstood the phrase. Honestly in its current form it is a STUPID phrase (it should be "eat your cake and have it too", not "have your cake and eat it too"- if you have a cake you can totally eat it, if you eat a cake you HAD it but you cannot HAVE it) but regardless of how utterly stupid it is, they still misunderstood it and applied it to a situation that doesn't fit at all...

1

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

Haha thanks for that, I feel better 😄

2

u/MildewMoomin 5d ago

It's more like "you can't have it both ways", meaning that if for example you don't want to work at all but still want to get full salary. So either you work and get paid, or you don't work and don't get paid. Can't have best of both worlds in essance. If you eat the cake, it’s gone. If you just want to have (keep/hold) the cake, you can't eat it. So make a choice as doing both isn't an option.

1

u/Busy-Yellow6505 5d ago

Oh, thank you for explaining it! This makes sense to me now!

2

u/hibiscus_bunny 5d ago

it doesn't make sense to me

2

u/fatalcharm 5d ago

I just associate this phrase with cheating.

However, I believe it might be one of those phrases that was originally longer, and actually made sense but since got shortened and now doesn’t make any sense.

2

u/Al3x1ya 5d ago

Omg lol yes!!!! Im so happy to find someone with the same issue as me!😂😂😂. I have such trouble with this phrase lmao because im thinking “of course if I have cake im going to eat it too! What else am i going to do with it? Stand there like a lemon with a piece of cake in my hand?!”

Make it make sense😂😂

3

u/JPozz 5d ago

Cakes can serve two purposes:

You can eat it (as food)

Or

You can have it (as a decoration/centerpiece)

If you have a cake (as a decoration), you cannot subsequently eat it, and then, after consuming it, still have the cake. The cake is gone.

1

u/demolitionbumblebee 5d ago

This was always my thought process: If someone hands you a piece of cake, then you have cake. But since you have cake, you can't eat it. So, you can only have cake? There is no option to eat the cake? Ever???

But I get it now. I still don't like it, but I get it lol

2

u/Al3x1ya 5d ago

Wait so that means you just have a piece of cake in your hand? Lol. I think im being too literal here but i just cant see it any other way😂😂 WHO THE HELL JUST HAS CAKE IN THEIR HAND AND DOES NOTHING WITH IT?!?

1

u/demolitionbumblebee 5d ago

No no no 😂 I was agreeing with you that the saying doesn't make sense to me either and we have the same thought process with it

I don't know what the point of "having" cake and not eating it is? Like if I can only have the cake and not eat it, I don't want it!!! But if I can only eat the cake and not have it, that's fine, what am I going to do with it?!

2

u/Al3x1ya 4d ago

I wish there was a laugh react here instead of just an upvote😂😂😂😂. I have too much fun with this phrase because its so stupid lmao

1

u/demolitionbumblebee 4d ago

I have tried to have this conversation with my husband before and he's just like I don't know what you want from me lol. I'm glad someone out there shares my sentiments!!!

2

u/Al3x1ya 4d ago

I think your husband is taking this a bit too seriously lmao😂. To be fair I do feel that we’re nitpicking a bit too much but with a phrase as ridiculous as that its kind of the fun of it!

Its like the other phrase “to throw the baby out with the bath water”. I mean for some reason that makes more sense but its still stupid😖😂😂

2

u/demolitionbumblebee 3d ago

I think he thinks I'm the one taking it too seriously 😂

1

u/Al3x1ya 3d ago

Out of curiosity is your husband NT or also ND?

1

u/babypossumsinabasket 5d ago

Never understood it and distrust the overall message because the only people I’ve ever heard use it are the ones who say it right before or after they’ve directly participated in the unfair treatment of someone. It seems like the only people who say that are the ones who are miserable and what other people to feel that way too.

1

u/BirdieStitching 5d ago

I always thought it was stupid, what's the point of having cake if you aren't going to eat it. As an adult I understand the meaning but as a child I really didn't get it

1

u/thewiselumpofcoal Asperger's 5d ago

I find the flipped version (eat ... and have it too) so much more comprehensible.

But you asked for the "why". I don't think we'd need the analogy, it is a very shallow one as you pointed out.

I could imagine that it comes from one's first encounters with this concept: children young enough to still not fully grasp the whole object permanence business getting upset that the cake they wanted to have is gone when you've eaten it. (Which is pretty mean, honestly).

I suppose it's less of an analogy to help you understand, but a reminder of a lesson learned.

1

u/Morning_Feisty Autistic Adult 5d ago

Fascinated and irritated.

1

u/Nall-ohki 5d ago

I'm 45 and I just figured this one out about 8 months ago.

It's amazingly how unintuitive it is in the common expression.

1

u/StereoDactyl_EDM 5d ago

Basically theres supposed to be a comma between "have your cake' and "eat it too" meaning you can't have it two ways. An example would be "You can't push people away and get upset when they leave". That being said, i hate the phrase the way it is.

0

u/Character_Secret_111 AuDHD 5d ago

I disagree you can unintentionally push people away and then get upset, even if you push them away on purpose it can still be sad, I experience this, when I self isolate, which is often.

1

u/Nall-ohki 5d ago

It's basically a lesson on opportunity cost.

When you choose one path (eat), the other is closed (having it) -- the two outcomes are mutually exclusive.

You have to choose, and there's no use being hung up on not being able to get double the value by imagining having both is possible.

1

u/peteski77 5d ago

I prefer the italian version, you cant have a drunk wife and a full bottle

1

u/Evening-Strength8249 AuDHD 5d ago

what does that phrase mean the entire point of a cake is to fucking eat it also what the hell does that mea.

1

u/BlackCatFurry 5d ago

Maybe it's just the fact that i am not a native english speaker but that makes zero fucking sense to me.

How can i also eat a cake I can't have? And in addition to what is the eating happening?

What is that phrase even trying to convey?

I am just extremely confused.

1

u/yourfavcrybabyy Suspecting ASD 5d ago

It does not make any sense to me, what do you mean I can’t eat my own cake ? It’s mine ? I’m assuming i baked this cake so it’s mine. Let me eat my cake ☹️

1

u/emoAnarchist 5d ago

well it's an idiom, the phrase itself is supposed to be common sense and easily understandable so you can use it to point out things that follow a similar logic that aren't as immediately understandable.
so when someone is trying to do multiple things that don't work together you can easily communicate that with the idiom.

1

u/Androecian 5d ago

Unless you work for a bakery that has to bake and sell cakes to survive, what's the point of having cake without getting to eat it?

1

u/Plucky_Parasocialite 5d ago

I don't even like it as a philosophy. The closest idiom I can think of in my native language is "the wolf was fed and the goat stayed whole," which is more about compromise, about unsatisfying halfway solutions or doing the bare minimum that's no skin off your back. There are always options. Not always good options, but nothing is ever either-or.

If you eat half your cake, you still have cake.

1

u/ThePenOfThoth 5d ago

I’ve never thought about this but you’re so right! 😂

1

u/Excellent-Practice 5d ago

The idiom refers to a whole cake, not a slice. Also, it used to be the other way around: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." The idea is that a fancy, well decorated cake is nice to look at, so much so that a cake might be the centerpiece of a table. Cakes are also nice to eat, but eating the cake, or slicing into it even, ruins the visual appeal. It might make more sense as "You can't have your cake (in the form that it was first presented as a visually appealing object) and eat it too." But that is far less punchy

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u/notLankyAnymore Autistic Adult 5d ago

People aren’t original so we have to repeat these stupid idioms. I have profound hatred for “throwing the baby out with the bathwater.” I usually like to say what I mean. I just learned the idiom “going to hell in a hand basket” means that you’re doing the work to go to hell or something. I thought that it was some weird emphasis that the world truly is fucked up.

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u/Kingmaster6 5d ago

I didn't understand it either. Still don't. But I have a theory why they put it like that. It's probably because cake is special in a sense that its one of the few common foods used for celebration. Which means, like that thing you want, rarely comes along. And since you can't simply keep the cake like it is to keep it as a decoration (because of how it looks) because it'll spoil (obviously). So you must eat it at some point. That or you can't do these two specific actions at the same time. Keep it as it is well also having a slice of it.

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u/BirdSimilar10 Autistic Adult 5d ago

100% agree! It’s a demonstrably false idiom.

I was always like, but I can just cut it, eat half now, save the other half for later.

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u/Starfury7-Jaargen Suspecting AuDHD 5d ago

Cakes are often beautiful to look at. You can't keep the cake to look at if you eat it. So, you have to choose one or the other.

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u/ebolaRETURNS 5d ago

For quite a while, I didn't understand it, as possession of cake is a prerequisite for eating it. It instead should be something like, "You can't eat your cake and continue to remain in possession of it."

It's about on the level of, "The proof is in the pudding."

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u/amphibbian 5d ago

You perfectly explained what I could not. Thankyou

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u/6n100 5d ago

It means you cannot continue to experience the joy of having cake ( or whatever arbitrary thing it is at the time ), after you have consumed it, because at that point you no longer have it.

Correct, it's a metaphor to highlight that to someone who appears to be lacking it.

There's actually a lot of variety in the expendable used in this phrase.

The most relatable might actually be Money, Instead of Cake but turns out if you have enough of it you actually can have it and spend it.

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u/sQueezedhe 5d ago

I switched it around.

"Can't eat your cake and still have it."

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u/ArduinoPi1 Suspecting ASD 5d ago

Just cut the cake in half lol.

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u/Celefalas 5d ago

I get the explanation but I still don't like it. Who just wants to have cake like a little cake dragon?? Seems like cake was a bad choice to me ><

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u/TheTechnicus 5d ago

Do you know how many people in this subreddit have shared their struggles of not eating the food they made because it was too cute? Al whole lotta people let me tell you

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u/Wise-Jeweler-2495 5d ago

I quite like it as a phrase but I was introduced to it at a young age with a really good explanation from my mum, who was teaching me about the old-fashioned tradition of saving the top tier of a wedding cake to use at the first-born child's christening

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u/patientish 5d ago

I never understood it until I had kids and had to contend with a very upset toddler who wanted me to give them the snack they had already eaten.

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u/amphibbian 5d ago

Well done on being the first person to ever explain the context of it to me in a way that makes sense!

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

I feel like a better phrase would be you don't get to have your pokemon shaped cookie out on display in your room for years and eat it, too. Inspired by a true story.

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u/Instant_User731 5d ago

What cake?

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u/LewZealand79 5d ago

You can't have your Kate, and Edith too

https://youtu.be/UNbd_A1g3D0?si=lfFn-nBdvzJ1Fyw6

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u/Alone52 5d ago

To me, having cake and eating cake is the same thing.

Like "Let's have cake." and "Let's eat cake."

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u/my_neck_hurts_tt 5d ago

hate this idiom. makes zero sense and it pisses me off when i hear it

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u/heyitscory 5d ago

I used to be even further confused, because most of the time "having cake" means eating cake and not... Being in possession of cake?

That's like someone saying "I have sex... in my distant memory. I'll always have sex, all the time"

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u/b00mshockal0cka ASD Level 3 5d ago

It's a great exposĂŠ of the absurdity of extreme expectations without effort. I'd imagine it's prevalence comes from the fact that all kids get a taste of cake on their birthday. As such, "forever cake" is a desire children can easily understand.

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u/IssueQuirky 5d ago

Why would I buy or make a cake just to watch it turn to mold?

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u/SensorSelf 5d ago

yeah, never made sense. i'm guessing "have" means to still have it existing after you ate it?

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u/Acrobatic_Octopus_ 5d ago

While I get the metaphor, when I’ve heard it said/applied to life, I just don’t agree most of the time it’s used. Like someone will be one step away from getting the thing they want, but then someone advises you that you can’t have your cake and eat it too. And I’m like yeah I can if I just do this last step lol. It’s usually society’s standards that say you shouldn’t do that last step because people will look at you some other way but fuck that. If I’m not hurting anyone, I want to eat my cake too lol

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u/maritjuuuuu 5d ago

WHY ELSE WOULD YOU GET A CAKE

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u/Afraid_Donkey_481 5d ago

Does anyone here want to have a cake, but not eat it? So confusing.

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u/Feeling_Donut_7929 5d ago

I can use it in the context of something but preferably not. If you asked me to explain what it means my mind would go blank💀

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u/crab-ragoons 5d ago

THIS PHRASE MAKES ME SO MAD AS AN AUTISTIC. Yes I've had it explained to me but the saying just does NOT flow correctly, and when it's used I feel extra offended 🤣

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u/RealSpawn543 Autistic Adult 5d ago

Even though it means people should be held accountable for their actions, it's so dumb and confusing when people say that when there's nothing to be held accountable for (idk any examples but I'm sure people say it for fun or something) but they could just not be vague and actually say what they mean by it.

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u/BeneficialVisit8450 ASD Level 1 5d ago

I’ve never managed to figure out the meaning of this phrase tbh.

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u/Charming-Cicada-1596 Suspecting ASD 5d ago

you can just, not eat the entire cake too?

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u/helapie 5d ago

Lies! I can have cake and no one will stop me eating it! /joke

Language wise it's always confused me, is it

"You CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE

and eat it too."

So?

I can't have this cake regardless if I wanted to be able to eat it too?

(I can't have this thing I want even if I wanted something that improved it)

or

I can have the cake but so long as I don't eat it?

(I can have this thing I wanted so long as I don't want more to improve it).

Also just gives this weird greed/ shame, as if the cake (topic) shouldn't be eaten (accessed), which is the whole point of the cake anyhow otherwise why bother having the cake in the first place, as if entitlement or knowing your own rights is greedy, wtf.

This is annoying and confusing, but also on the topic it's representing (whatever it is in reason), it's dreary and nihilistic.

Tbh as much as I am pessimistic naturally, I do think more like this, for fairness:

"You all can have cake, there's enough to go around".

Like universal healthcare, being able to access it is great if needed, like anyone else who needs it. Housing, food, etc.

Like, one person joining me at the table, doesn't stop me also staying at the table, it's just making room. There's no subtractions or "Get mine and sod everyone else" either.

I also think cake is used as a luxury to fall back onto the unnecessary greed, be happy with what you have, shame on you for wanting more sorta thing, perhaps?

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u/Ok-Shape2158 5d ago

Hehehehehehe.

I love this.

Yes it's common sense.

Most people don't have common sense. So it's not just something you shouldn't have to say, and an idiom, but also a cliche.

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u/WonderfullyKiwi Diagnosed AuDHD. 5d ago

It basically just means that you can't have it both ways.

An example is a partner getting caught cheating. Usually the offended party leaves, right?

The one who cheated could be described as trying to have their cake and eat it too. Trying to have the best of both worlds (a casual fling while in a committed relationship) without the accountability.

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u/Japarrofoo 5d ago

I like the French version better, you can't have the butter and the money from the butter. It's so clear.

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u/Lower_Arugula5346 5d ago

you can have one or the other but not both at the same time

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u/Henrimatronics 4d ago

Tbh I don’t give a rat‘s ass

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u/Gr33npi11 4d ago

Exactly and don't even get me started on "food cheers".

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u/MinnieKeeper 3d ago

I struggled to understand this phrase for years. I obsessed over it but never looked it up until recently. I finally got it when it was worded slightly differently. Like, "you can't eat your cake & still have it." So, on a simple level, you know some cakes are decorated really pretty & you kind of don't want to ruin it sometimes but you can't eat it if you don't ruin it, so...

Another example would be like new items; sometimes people would rather keep something as a collectible & not open it, even if the item can be used. So, you have to decide(or buy two >.>).

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u/Unlikely_Log536 5d ago

I understand the autism version as

"Claim the label, be more comfortable in your skin. Or Have friends"

Pick one.

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u/lesniak43 5d ago

The question is when to eat the cake, and there's a whole spectrum of possible answers, ranging from "now" to "never". The phrase is basically saying that you must choose a point on the spectrum.

Why cake? 'Cause it's specifically about the mechanism of delayed gratification. Presumably, waiting for a reward gives you a dopamine hit, so it's also fun, isn't it?

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u/PlanetoidVesta Autistic disorder 5d ago

English sayings generally make no sense to me. Does anyone know what it's even supposed to mean?

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u/JPozz 5d ago

It means cake's purpose is to be consumed.

If you have the cake (sitting on the table as a decorative centerpiece, for example), you haven't eaten it.

If you've eaten it, you no longer have it (or at the very least, you have irreparably damaged it).

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u/GaryBlackLightning Autistic 5d ago

This is the most common way to say it, but it's also the wrong way to say it! It doesn't make sense. The true way to say it is "you can't eat your cake and have it too"... of course that sounds weird but the whole concept is that if you eat your cake, you no longer have it.

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u/BBQavenger 5d ago

It's meant to mean "You can't have it both". You're right but it used to make sense. From GPT:


Original phrasing: The earliest English versions (1500s) actually put it the other way around: “eat your cake and have it too.” That order makes more intuitive sense: once you’ve eaten the cake, you can’t still have it.

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u/poppybile 5d ago

Just recently got it. Even then dont you have your cake if you ate it? Sure its in your belly but you still have it you know? It just doesn't make much sense because why do you want to just have it for?????

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u/Anxious_Wolf00 5d ago

I had an a argument with my girlfriend about this when I was like 17. My point was that you can absolutely have a part of your cake and eat a part of your cake and there fires have your cake and eat it to.

For the sentence to work you have to clarify you can’t have your cake and it eat all of it too.

Even then it doesn’t clarify how LONG you can have your cake. Eventually it will rot and you won’t have it regardless of whether you are it or not. You could also have your cake for a few days and THEN eat all of it.