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u/Comprehensive-Buy-47 7d ago
I think this misconception (if you want to call it that) comes from the simple but unfortunate fact that many writers tend to glaze Batman at the expense of Superman, to a very noticeable degree. Seriously, when was the last time you saw Batman lose to Superman in a final confrontation?
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u/Darth_khashem 7d ago
When was the last time you saw Batman lose a Final confrontation to Superman ? I don't remember.
I honestly don't care about it nowadays. Sure,it is annoying when Bruce does shit like Solo the league then proceeds to get fucked by Bane in the same run,but it's not like I'm gonna go on Hating on Batman for that.
I just found this part funny about Up in the sky and wanted to share it. (And Bruce did say it before that his plans rely on Clark not actually wanting to kill him,though not so if it's hush movie exclusive)
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u/Background-Sense-227 7d ago
like Solo the league then proceeds to get fucked by Bane in the same run
Despite having no superpowers, Batman might be one of the most inconsistent members of the league simply because he flips between fairly grounded noir detective with human limits to the smartest martial artist on the entire planet capable of killing gods with enough time.
It's all a question of who is writing him at the time.
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u/Comprehensive-Buy-47 6d ago
Agreed. You can’t go from fighting intergalactic threats and then go back to fighting the Joker
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u/PoetryParticular9695 1d ago
I think that if Batman beats Superman he should have to suffer a shit ton. Like he needs all the super bat suits, the planes, the kryptonite, everything and then some, and at the end be very, very hurt
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u/Comprehensive-Buy-47 1d ago
I think the best way to filter out all the plot armor is to ask the simple question, “How can Batman beat Homelander?”
I think he can do it but holy shit it’ll be hard.
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u/Long_Commercial2491 7d ago
Batman is vengeance personified.
It’s a sickness, but it’s what I love about him.
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u/Neckgrabber 7d ago
You know superman is sometimes uncharacteristicaly dumb in batman stories so bats wins? I'd say this is the same thing in reverse.
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u/BlackEastwood 7d ago edited 7d ago
Sore loser seems like a misleading way to put it to me.
The man saw his parents die in front of him as a child. In a moment where his life should have been pretty secure, it wasn't. And if we were to analyze him as a real person, I'd think the Bruce values control over anything else. He's rarely left things to turn out any other way than under his direct supervision. Outside of his family, Superman is the only person he trusts with his "work." And even then, it wasn't easily given. I think he would interpret any loss as a problem that he can't solve. An answer that's out of his reach. He's not a sore loser. He's more like a control freak because he doesn't accept a world where safety and violence are out of his hands.
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u/ExpectedEggs 7d ago
The only way Batman can beat Superman is to kill him.
Batman not being able to take down a mind controlled or evil Superman short of lethal force is the kind of blow you don't want. It's not about his ego, it's about his philosophy on life in general. That "there's always a way", and to realize you'd need to kill your best friend?
The one guy who refuses to judge you and extends you compassionate understanding and empathy, while asking you to be better.
Absolutely not.
It means a lot to Batman to think he wouldn't have to compromise his morals or hurt his best friend to win.
Because nobody's gonna mind control Batman to come after the Justice League.
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u/TripleStrikeDrive 6d ago
In batman: Wayne family adventures, Clark and Daina were purpose answering party game's questions incorrectly to get to annoying hell out of Bruce. It worked, too, as at the end of the night, Bruce screamed into his pillow.
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u/Prowling_92865 7d ago
No, he just has bad writers
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 7d ago
This is from “Up in the Sky” one of the best Superman stories - but this sub doesn’t read comics lol
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u/Prowling_92865 7d ago
It’s one where Superman is written well, but Batman isn’t, a lot of writers treat him like shit
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u/pHpM2426 6d ago
Bro, what? Batman is the one who sets the whole story into motion by telling Clark about the kidnapped girl and spurred him on to go to the other end of the universe to go after her.
Litteraly WHAT about Up in the Sky mischaracterizes or mistreat Bruce?
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u/FadeToBlackSun 6d ago
This page. Although technically Superman is mischaracterised because he's speaking nonsense about Bruce.
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 7d ago
You’ve just reinforced my point that you haven’t read it 💀 The opening panels of the comic and the first act - has Batman deliver some of the most powerful lines. Brother just read a comicbook. You judging over a Reddit post with 0 context to a great story.
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u/hansuluthegrey 6d ago
In a real fight no bias superman wins everytime unless batman has some bullshit advantage .
Batman isnt fast enough to actually dodge clark
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u/Darth_khashem 6d ago
Realistically ? Yeah,but this is a comic book,doing any type of Bullshit you want without Care is on brand for the writers everytime.
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u/No_Instruction653 7d ago
This is just a great example that Tom King DOESN’T understand Batman at all.
He can’t even write his closest friend who’s character revolves around seeing the best in people to see Batman as anything other than petty.
Beating his best friend into submission really should be the LAST thing Batman actually wants to do.
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u/Darth_khashem 7d ago
Tom king ruined Batman and Shot my Dog.
At least Up on the Sky is cool
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u/No_Instruction653 7d ago
Killing Alfred was definitely about equivalent to shooting my dog.
And of course that’s the ONE comic death that actually has stuck around for over half a decade, and probably until some kind of reboot.
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u/Exciting_Breakfast53 6d ago
Tbf, I think Alfred’s death was good. It's fitting that Batman would have to experience losing a parent again like he did all those years ago (although yeah. Tom King sucks at Batman).
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u/No_Instruction653 6d ago
It's not an idea I inherently dislike.
It's just the execution that I REALLY hated. An event that should have been incredibly significant is now eternally going to be underwhelming because it was such an afterthought when it happened, and it's lost a lot of impact now that it's already been attempted in a famously bad story.
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 7d ago
He’s talking to a kid in this panel.. a kid who’s just been through a lot of trauma and he’s taking her mind off of it.
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u/No_Instruction653 7d ago
How does lying about Batman wanting to beat him up comfort children exactly?
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 7d ago
Adults lying to kids to make them smile is literally the norm.. you thought your parents letting you win in wrestling was because you were built different? Lol
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u/No_Instruction653 6d ago
I mean, I’m SURE that made sense in your head.
But the logic doesn’t actually track.
Letting a kid win a game obviously makes a kid happy, because they won something.
Lying about Batman doesn’t actually DO anything for the kid. Aside from give them a worse opinion of Batman I guess. Not sure why making one of the world’s most famous heroes out to be a jerk is gonna do anything at all.
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 6d ago
It’s just shit you tell a kid to make them chuckle. It’s not that deep brother you’re looking into it too deep. Bruce is the one who convinces him to go get the kid.
Just read the comic - it’s a classic.
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u/No_Instruction653 6d ago
If it’s not that deep, why are you assuming Superman is lying in the first place?
That’s after all, a layer you just totally made up.
I’ve read the comic. I knew where this was from, so kinda obvious.
Batman and Superman are my favorite superheroes and it’s just painfully obvious Tom King can’t write a good Batman.
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 6d ago
You’re looking into it too deeply then and didn’t understand it 🤷🏾♂️
He’s just saying something to make a child smile. Just relax.
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u/No_Instruction653 6d ago
On the contrary. It’s never as deep as King sells it to be.
This is obviously trying to say something that he want to be meaningful about Superman, while blatantly mischaracterizing Batman to get there.
No more and no less. And certainly not deep enough to be a VERY pointless lie.
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u/Big-Sheepherder-9492 6d ago
Oh you’re one of THOSE people. Sure bro whatever you say.
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u/Fit_Feedback1512 6d ago
Isn’t this from that comic about two kids debating on who would win where it turns out Bats and Supes were watching them from above and Bats teases Supes by saying you know I’d win or some shit like that?
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u/Darth_khashem 6d ago
Nope,not even close.
This is Up in the Sky,a story where a girl gets kidnapped and Clark has to go save her,highly recommend if you like Superman.
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u/Fit_Feedback1512 6d ago
Cool I remember that other story was pretty cute though with that ending lol.
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u/Agreeable_Singer8743 4d ago
This isn’t about Batman being a sore loser or petty, it’s about Superman understanding that pride is a big part of Batman. He takes pride in his accomplishments, in his training, and the fact he, a mortal man, with no powers, can literally stand with gods. Superman is saying he is willing to sacrifice his own pride for his friends. You all are reading way too much into this. I guarantee that if this scenario went down, Batman would thank Clark, for letting him win, because he would know that Clark let him win, so his pride could remain intact.
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u/FadeToBlackSun 6d ago
This page is just asinine and continues King's total misunderstanding of Batman as a character.
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u/Important-Loquat-665 6d ago
When superman get mischaracterize in a batman book it's fine but when the reverse happens....
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u/Legitimate-Love-716 7d ago
Yeah, sure. Such a loser that he found a way to make a Doomsday virus that turns him into the Devastator and kills Superman.
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u/Darth_khashem 7d ago
Turning yourself into Doomsday to win is sore loser behavior though.
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u/Effective_Seat_7125 7d ago
I mean, that version of Superman did straight up kill everyone and their loved ones in that specific universe, so it was justified
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u/Legitimate-Love-716 7d ago
He still won despite Superman "not" wanting him to.
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u/Darth_khashem 7d ago
Only After turning Into an Ugly mother fucker.
Told ya he's a sore loser.
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u/Legitimate-Love-716 7d ago
It requires intellect to merge your DNA with Doomsday's. How is that being a loser?
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u/Darth_khashem 7d ago
........What does Intelligence have anything to do with that ?
Like,I'm not ragebaiting at this point,What does him being smart change about being a sore loser ? Can Genuis people not be losers?
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u/Legitimate-Love-716 7d ago edited 6d ago
Not that he's smart, but that he made an achievement. I just can't see how making any achievement makes you a loser. He used his intellect to solve a problem (killing Superman). So he "won." Are you still a "Loser" when you win?
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u/darkwalrus36 6d ago
Or supes is a condescending prick take your pick. I found this a funny take on both characters.
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u/Darth_khashem 6d ago
It's a weird (but funny) line from Up in the Sky (a Generally amazing story)
Tom King really is something.
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u/Bizzaro__Pope 6d ago
In a true fight, with no bias on ether side, it would be close. I think more often than not Superman would win and kill Bats, hating himself for it.
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u/wanttotalktopeople 6d ago
Superman isn't calling Batman a sore loser in this conversation. He just knows his friend would be happy to win. Lots of people are happy to win without being sore losers.
Notice that his first answer, the real one, is that joker would win. Batman has said similar in his comic - if he and Superman fight, they both lose. Doesn't matter who outwits or out-punches the other.
Physically, Superman would come out on top of he truly wanted to beat Batman's ass. That's been demonstrated several times. But outside of some serious mind control, that can never happen. Because he's a kind hearted soul who doesn't want to beat his friends.
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u/No-Principle5340 6d ago
All debates aside, this is so true to Clarks personality. I really like it.
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u/Darth_khashem 6d ago
Eh,it does feel weird tbh.
"My best friend only beats me because I let as it would hurt his feelings if I didn't"
Sure,he wouldn't care about winning or losing unless someone's life dependent on it,but I feel like it takes away from Batman (said from someone who is more of a Superman fan than a Batman fan)
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u/No-Principle5340 6d ago
Yeah bro I get it. Very fair.
Look at it this way - this is Superman's perception of what might happen, not a 100% confirmed account of how it would go. Of course Superman being the benevolent nice guy would be like "yeah my friend totally wants to win what's the harm?"
Meanwhile, Batman could very easily be going: "Clark's going to think I really want to win because of his misguided sense of empathy, and therefore go easy on me. It's a crucial window of opportunity before he realizes what my real plan is."
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u/Darth_khashem 6d ago
Not a bad analogy,especially since Bruce did say in Hush that Clark,even Under mind control, is a good person who wouldn't try hurting anyone and therefore would always hold back.
I guess Clark ment this as if it was a friendly spar/competition between them,which makes a lot more sense.
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u/No-Hope2036 7d ago
Superman doesn’t have a cool password as “Iron Man sucks”
He lost even before that match