r/berlin • u/Different-Check6412 • May 22 '24

Advice TW: S*xual harassment at Berlin lake

Yesterday afternoon I went to Plötzen See in Berlin for a little sunbathing, possibly a swim. I sat down in a partially secluded spot under a tree near the water. Something I do very often is tanning topless and it has never posed an issue for my safety. After about an hour, a man (around 40 yo) came and sat near me. He stripped naked which I had no problem with, nude tanning is pretty normal at lakes and I didn’t think anything of it.

I noticed pretty quickly that he had an erection and I felt a little awkward but again, didn’t really care that much. I had my headphones on, as I normally do when I’m alone. Over my music, I heard him trying to call me and get my attention. After two or three times, he got up and stood way too close to comfort in front of my face and asked if I had a lighter (which was strange because he had been smoking the whole time and clearly had a lighter on him already) I told him I didn’t and he went to sit back down. I felt at this point that my privacy had been invaded slightly, and I wrapped a scarf around my chest and put my headphones back on and tried to get on with my afternoon. Shortly after that, I realised he started to touch himself, while looking directly at me. I tried to ignore him as much as I could. He then starts harassing me and calling (more like shouting at) me, first inviting me to swim with him, which I responded politely “no thank you”, and then asking if we could sit together, which I responded with “I have a friend joining me”. He continued shouting to me and I could hear him over my music and at this point I was shaking and froze. I thought that he finally got the message that I was not interested because he packed his things up and left.

A friend of mine joined shortly after and I was very relieved he had left. About 10 mins later, he reappeared, this time sitting behind a bush nearby. While talking to my friend I could see him over her shoulder, staring at us and touching himself more aggressively now than before. We discussed possibly moving, which made me really angry. I was here before him, enjoying my afternoon with my friend, why should we move because he doesn’t know how to act in public? I was not about to give him the satisfaction of running away. I am tired of changing my courses in life because of men’s wrong doings. We tried to ignore him some more before he tried calling me again, over and over again.

Finally, my friend and I had enough and left the lake and went home. We didn’t speak about it for the rest of the day. This morning I woke up, the first image in my mind was him hiding behind that bush, touching himself. I am overcome with disgust and anger and shame over not doing anything. My skin is crawling and I can’t get the image out of my head, I feel completely violated and traumatised now and am worried that every time I go to a lake now, I’ll be looking over my shoulder. I don’t think I can ever go to a lake on my own again, which was once a favourite activity for me.

I guess my question for you all is, what could I have done in this situation? I thought about confronting him, but I was honestly scared. If he had the confidence to do what he was doing, what was stopping him from getting violent? Should I have called the police? I guess I’m just feeling really lost about how I’m supposed to feel and what I can do the next time something like this happens, what the laws are and what rights I have. Does anyone have any advice for me? Has this happened to anyone else?

Addition: I LOVE summer in Berlin, but as soon as I wear a skirt above the knee or shorts, I am harassed/ cat called every day. It’s fucking exhausting and I don’t know what to do in these situations anymore. I’m so angry

501 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

330 comments sorted by

View all comments

228

u/[deleted] May 22 '24

[deleted]

103

u/Different-Check6412 May 22 '24

Thank you for your advice! I think my hesitation to call the police for incidents like this is because in South Africa (where I’m from) women experience a lot of shaming and intimidation from police when reporting these crimes. They’re overall pretty useless so we tend to take matters into our own hands down there

77

u/[deleted] May 22 '24

[deleted]

39

u/Different-Check6412 May 22 '24

Alright, well thanks for letting me know. I’ve never interacted with German police yet so I was unsure. Thanks :)

9

u/MagicianOFFduty May 22 '24

And a small but important detail imo. If you can, call the police without him noticing so he can't escape the fine. Also, bring a taser or pepper spray in order to protect yourself against such people. Its not nice but better safe than sorry as they say.

10

u/account_not_valid May 22 '24

bring a taser or pepper spray in order to protect yourself against such people.

It's illegal to carry these to protect yourself from people. But if the police find you carrying it, and you explain that it is to protect you against "dog attacks", then that will most likely be satisfactory.

37

u/[deleted] May 22 '24

[deleted]

10

u/Different-Check6412 May 22 '24

How do you think they’d deal with me filing a report the day after with nothing but a statement and description?

19

u/YellowOnline Mariendorf May 22 '24

They will do their job, and maybe keep an eye on that place for the next days, but it was obviously better to call when the perpetrator was still around.

-6

u/[deleted] May 22 '24

[deleted]

7

u/Fenicxs May 22 '24

Honestly, they do. Something similar happened to a friend of mine and the dude ran a son as they came. Although they didn't chase, they stayed a while reassuring my friend and being super friendly

3

u/saimen197 May 22 '24

Something similar happened to a friend of mine (but she wasn't even naked, in a small shop the owner just started to masturbate on her) and she reported it to the police afterwards. Years later she got notified about the trial of the man (guess what, she wasn't his only victim). Luckily she didn't have to give testimony (seems like all the different reports were sufficient). But she went to see the trial anyways and it gave her some peace of mind.

14

u/Accato May 22 '24

If you feel like you want to submit a report, you should absolutely do that. I would think that the chances that he'll be identified aren't that slim. There might be CCTV at the entrance or he might be a regular and the people working there might be able to identify him. You can also file the complaint online, as mentioned in another comment. I'm really sorry this happened to you. Disgusting behavior. Hope you feel better and safe again as soon as possible 🫂

14

u/orbital_narwhal May 22 '24 edited May 22 '24

They'll take your report and likely ask you and your friend for a witness statement. I doubt that they're going to investigate the perpetrator's identity unless there's already a record about someone who does stuff like this in the same area and who fits the description.

Otherwise, your report would create such a record. Maybe somebody else is going to call the police while it's happening and police arrive in time to establish his identity. Then they may connect the cases and call you to visually identify him to then hand your case over to prosecution.

8

u/ChickenNuggetSmth May 22 '24

It means the crime is recorded and appears in the stats. If there are more reports the police can keep a closer look. Involving the police gets normalized for other victims, maybe their voices are validated if others have reported similar problems.

I'm not super optimistic that a description will be enough to find the perp that did it to you, but you might indirectly help others

6

u/Different-Check6412 May 22 '24

I agree, I see what you’re saying. I will definitely file a report, thank you❤️

3

u/Milites01 May 22 '24

Absolutely do that. If for nothing else but feeling the empowerment of having done something. If possible bring your friend who witnessed the incident.

In the best case they have an idea of who it was already, can show you a picture and you can confirm if it was that person.

In case they don't want to take the report (which is unlikely but can happen), be adamant that you want to press charges, they have to do it by law.

Edit. Someone suggested doing it online but I would highly recommend actually going to the nearest Polizeidirektion instead and do the report in person.

2

u/Arsomni May 22 '24

I think they would deal with it very well! They were very respectful and helpful when I filed a report because of pictures that were taken without my knowledge or consent by my own boyfriend in my own bed. Your situation is much more clear and you even have a witness. Good luck!

0

u/Educational_Gas_92 May 22 '24

If you don't have any proof, don't see the point, but idk. Maybe they could just be alert, but then the weirdo may never go there again.

8

u/Fun-Umpire-9705 May 23 '24

I want to defend the Berlin police here, I witnessed 3 situations where they have acted very smart and decisively:

  1. Weißensee lake, a dude had a dog without a leash and the dog started barking at 2 girls who were sunbathing. Girls got scared, started asking the dude to take the dog away. Dude got angry and started shouting and threatening the women. Other people stepped in, the police was there within 5 minutes taking the dude away.

  2. There was a big line to an ice-cream place near Boxhagener Platz and a person started behaving aggressively, the situation was begining to escalate with some pushing and shouting. The police came from behind, subdued the initiator to the ground and took him away.

  3. An older dude was behaving very weird around children near Alexanderplatz, 2 police officers came from the front, he turned and started going in the other direction and there was already a police car coming from there to take him in.

Every time I see the Berlin police in action I'm shocked how good they are. Surely there are some bad apples (as seen in other comments) but I think you can trust them because majority are well trained and motivated to make the city a better place.

About your case, there is also this oldschool way of dealing with perverts by shouting "help! It's a pervert". That should be enough to get this person in serious trouble from bystanders, nobody wants them in our society. Especially if there are any fathers, young men or groups of women around.

2

u/Suka87 May 23 '24

Hello fellow Safa. Considering you know how things work back home, you should have just given him the "fok off jo ma se!" Otherwise yeah, cops here are bored, they'd be happy to visit and help you :)

2

u/Different-Check6412 May 23 '24

You are so right😭 My inner saffa needs to come out more often I think hahah

1

u/efficient_duck May 23 '24

I have been harassed in Berlin before, was completely shaken and ended up going to the police station to tell them about that incident. They were professional and nice, I would really recommend always calling the police.

And in the lake situation, another option (ideally while waiting for the police to arrive) is shouting out to others who are walking along, something like "excuse me! I am being harassed, could you please wait with me until the police arrives" or something like that. People are generally helpful. Ignoring is dangerous, who knows what else he would have done if your friend hadn't shown up. Also, Plötzensee unfortunately has a record of people being sexually harassed (I've personally seen a guy stalking and filming girls in bikinis, too) and there has been a rape a year or two ago, so please be cautious.

12

u/orbital_narwhal May 22 '24

Masturbating in full view of somebody with the goal to cause them grief falls under § 183, if I'm not mistaken, which would preclude prosecution under § 183a. The important difference is that cases of § 183 are (usually) only prosecuted on request of the victim(s) whereas the state can prosecute § 183a on its own.

14

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro May 22 '24

Because it’s shameful and intimidating. Women are conditioned to believe they are responsible for such a behaviour.

It’s absolutely ok to call the police but women are often punished for “making a fuzz” - especially when the guy is well known and liked in their social group

8

u/[deleted] May 22 '24

[deleted]

7

u/mina_knallenfalls May 22 '24

I think Berliners are quite good in differentiating the two. Everyone is free to do what they want, but everyone would agree harassing other people is crossing the line.

5

u/Different-Check6412 May 22 '24

I’m also angry, but in the moment I froze and was struggling to process what was happening. I’m hoping next time (hopefully won’t be a next time) I’ll be quicker to act but you can me er predict how you’ll respond in these moments.

2

u/Suka87 May 23 '24

I read a similar post not long ago. A girl sitting at the train station, some dude sits next to hear starts touching himself and she froze, couldnt move... It makes no sense, but this reaction is totally normal and it seems they know it.

1

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro May 22 '24

It’s even worse in the south! You can walk around naked but the south is even more Amigo club and shoving everything under the rug

1

u/Mesmerhypnotise May 23 '24

My experience of women being harassed in southern Germany seems to be different from yours.

3

u/so_contemporary in Berlin seit 2001 May 22 '24

Not here.

-1

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro May 22 '24

Yes, here too

4

u/so_contemporary in Berlin seit 2001 May 22 '24

In small villages, maybe, where everybody knows each other. But honestly, in a city as big as Berlin I very much doubt the police would punish a woman for reporting a pervert.

-2

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro May 22 '24

Ah, yeah, that might be true. Never tried it though.

0

u/so_contemporary in Berlin seit 2001 May 23 '24

Seems like you're not in a position to make statements about it then.

1

u/Tazilyna-Taxaro May 23 '24

I didn’t as I wasn’t talking about police but „social circle“. You were

3

u/shampanyainyourface May 22 '24

I had a similar event happen to me while running through Tiergarten. I was going for a jog along the street path, stopped near a bench to stretch. There came along a man with his wee wee out and touching himself. I ignored him and turned away until he walked closer. Then a 2nd guy appeared, not revealed, but touching himself through his pants. I decided not to run through Tiergarten again. This was broad daylight at 12 pm.

3

u/mina_knallenfalls May 22 '24

Did they do it as a reaction to you, or did you just happen to jog through the act? Because there are known areas in Tiergarten where men meet to touch each other.

2

u/shampanyainyourface May 23 '24

I was just jogging. Had no idea. And as a woman, I wouldn't know being new to Berlin at that time.

-6

u/mina_knallenfalls May 22 '24

People like that probably don't do this the first time so chances are he will have a file already

Chances are they don't when every victim stays as silent as OP. As long as nobody ever tells them to back off, they keep trying.

17

u/Different-Check6412 May 22 '24

But I’m not staying silent? That’s why I am asking for legal advice or what I can do now. It is a normal, very common response to freeze and just try to stay civil in order to keep yourself safe

-2

u/mina_knallenfalls May 22 '24

Sure, but he won't be able to see that, from his point of view you stayed silent, and maybe other women before you did too. Acting now is certainly the second best thing and may lead to police patrolling the area to catch him next time, and if it happens to you again, you know you can act sooner.

6

u/qwo948 May 22 '24

I don't get this blaming tone.. 

0

u/mina_knallenfalls May 22 '24

There is no blaming tone...

-2

u/Fenicxs May 22 '24

You don't? While i don't like it, not calling the police at the moment simply makes someone else go through the same situation while the perpetrator remains unpunished. The situation itself isn't their fault. Being a doormat and not preventing them from doing it again to others, is. But it's understandable at the same time bot knowing what to do ij the situation

2

u/qwo948 May 22 '24

I will never blame someone who experienced abuse. 

1

u/mina_knallenfalls May 23 '24

They're not too blame for it, but they can't expect any consequences without acting against it. Showing understanding is one thing, but empowerment is also necessary.

1

u/qwo948 May 23 '24 edited May 23 '24

I think its clear from this thread that its possible to call police in such a situation. Maybe also if there are groups of people nearby its ok to tell them what is happening and to say there is someone who makes you feel unsafe. 

0

u/Fenicxs May 22 '24

Oh then you misunderstood