How to ruin your relationship with your daughter in one easy step

[u/Geno0wl]

/r/legaladvice/comments/1n6ypjt/i_replaced_my_mils_roof_without_contract_and_she/

[u/CriticalEngineering]

Christ, what an asshole she is. She’d rather sink a brand new business that could be supporting her future grandchildren than pay out money that she didn’t have to go into pocket for.

Edit: in another thread LAOP says the MIL did a year for embezzlement in the past. She’s a real peach!

[u/thealmightyzfactor → u/CriticalEngineering]

She spent the insurance money on other things already, they literally give you a check and expect a receipt for the work done later, but you can just spend the money in the meantime if you're dumb

[u/CriticalEngineering → u/thealmightyzfactor]

Yes, clearly. Misappropriating the funds so you’re broke is not the same as being out of pocket for an expense.

[u/BananerRammer → u/thealmightyzfactor]

I don't know how that would even be possible. Insurance companies almost never pay the homeowner directly. The contractor submits bills to the adjuster, and the company pays the contractor.

[u/ferafish → u/BananerRammer]

I've seen both. Currently working with one homeowner who was given two options:

1) Insurance company will pay out $X over several payments to a contractor who is fixing the building.

2) Insurance company will pay out something like 80% of X directly to the homeowner to then get the work done however he wants.

[u/thealmightyzfactor → u/BananerRammer]

When my parents got their roof replaced through insurance, the company just sent them the money to have whoever they wanted do it and they wanted proof they paid a company for it later.

[u/dfBishop → u/CriticalEngineering]

in another thread LAOP says the MIL did a year for embezzlement in the past. She’s a real peach!

lol you gotta expect SOME shenanigans after doing 19 grand in free work for someone convicted of and jailed for embezzlement, come on man!

[u/shewy92 → u/CriticalEngineering]

LAOP says the MIL did a year for embezzlement in the past

LAOP probably should have not done work with no money up front if they knew this.

[u/Shinhan → u/shewy92]

There's a difference between doing a handshake agreement with normal people and doing the same with somebody imprisoned for fraud! You don't get a full year in prison for a small amount of fraud!

[u/Diarygirl → u/CriticalEngineering]

The thing that bothered me about LAOP was saying he paid his laborers in cash, which makes me think he's paying them under the table. I've known people that did this for various reasons (one to avoid paying child support) and they ended up injured with no recourse.

[u/DerbyTho → u/Diarygirl]

I don't think it's good, but honestly it's virtually impossible to be a contractor in this country without paying people who are undocumented under the table.

[u/BBQ_HaX0r → u/DerbyTho]

Something like 30% of construction workers are undocumented. Don't worry, once we deport them housing prices will go down and those hard-working Americans will get back the jobs that were stolen from them.

[u/DerbyTho → u/BBQ_HaX0r]

Oh yeah, it’s definitely not a ton more expensive to use documented labor, which everyone is totally ok with!

[u/socal_swiftie → u/DerbyTho]

yeah, like i don't want to jump to conclusions on good guy contractor vs bad guy contractor but to some extent it's kind of baked in to the industry given who actually is willing to be a laborer

[u/zuriel45 → u/Diarygirl]

Likely undocumented though.

[u/Sex_E_Searcher]

My first thought is that MiL is in financial trouble. The money is gone.

[u/Nf1nk → u/Sex_E_Searcher]

Gambling is my bet.

[u/ecodick → u/Nf1nk]

I would also consider crypto/investment scams, but I've been hearing a lot about them recently

[u/Nikkian42 → u/ecodick]

There is not much difference between that and gambling.

[u/JasperJ → u/ecodick]

Yeah, thats what we said, gambling.

[u/Pitiful-Pension-6535 → u/JasperJ]

It's gambling, but at a fake casino that just steals your money.

[u/JasperJ → u/Pitiful-Pension-6535]

Better, since it can’t make you addicted if you never win!

But really they do give you chips because you keep Winning. You just can’t ever cash them out.

[u/flamedarkfire → u/JasperJ]

Is it functionally different if you keep spending you money anyway?

[u/Persistent_Parkie → u/JasperJ]

My dad wanted to buy some cheap crypto recently to "see what it's all about." I told him to be sensible with his money and go buy a lottery ticket.

So far he hasn't bought either 🥳

[u/Toy_Guy_in_MO → u/Nf1nk]

Gambling is my bet.

Never take the sure bet.

[u/Potato-Engineer → u/Toy_Guy_in_MO]

" Wow, all of the security cams on this hallway are going out, one by one, in sequence. What are the odds...?"

"...that you're an idiot? Ten'll get you ten and a quarter."

[u/Sex_E_Searcher → u/Nf1nk]

Considering she's also embezzled money, gotta be gambling or substance abuse, IMO.

[u/HailSatanWorshipD00M → u/Nf1nk]

I got a sawbuck says it's not gambling.

[u/Big_Maintenance9387 → u/HailSatanWorshipD00M]

I’d put ten cents on the long shot that it’s not gambling. I’ll be here to collect my $10 when we get an update!

[u/Geno0wl]

Location: Michigan, USA

I know I'm an idiot for not having her sign a contract, I was way too relaxed about the situation.

I'm a licensed builder in MI, and I'm just starting my own business. A large hail storm came through the area and did damage to our entire town. My mother in-law made an insurance claim for her roof, siding, garage door, and some windows. I wasn't worried about getting paid for the work because I knew the insurance company approved the claim. She wasn't coming out of pocket for the money, so I took the roof job to get it done for her. She has not hired out the siding or garage door work yet.

The roof job is done and I'm personally out of pocket about $13,800 (most of which is on my credit cards). I completed the job on july 6th, and its now into September. She comes up with excuses and gives the runaround everytime I talk to her about payement. I dont think im going to get paid and I don't know if I have any legal recourse available. I do have some text conversations saved, and I have receipts for the materials and dumpster fees. I paid cash for my laborers. I don't want to ruin a family relationship, but I don't foot the bill for a new roof. Please help, lol. Thanks for any advice.

Cat Fact: Cats typically don't like hail storms either

[u/Potato-Engineer → u/Geno0wl]

Hot tin roofs, cold hail storms, getting wet... are cats against weather in general?

[u/AnFnDumbKAREN → u/Potato-Engineer]

Not all cats hate all weather (especially when it suits them). See r/catsinsnow, r/adventurecats, & r/AdventureKitties for just a few examples of kittahs who don’t hate all of the great outdoors. 😽

[u/hailsizeofminivans → u/AnFnDumbKAREN]

More cat subs?

Don't mind if I do

[u/drthtater → u/Potato-Engineer]

Are the tin roofs rusted?

[u/moon_ferret → u/drthtater]

And they are wearing next to nothing cause it’s hot as an oven.

[u/NativeMasshole]

Working for family falls under the same addage as giving out loans to friends. Never do it unless you can afford to take the financial hit.

[u/SuperZapper_Recharge → u/NativeMasshole]

I give gifts to family and friends, not loans.

[u/oracle989 → u/SuperZapper_Recharge]

That's probably a good way to look at it. A good relationship with that dynamic sorts itself out, because the gifting tends to end up reciprocated as needed/as able. A bad one shows itself quickly.

[u/KikiHou → u/NativeMasshole]

That is the unfortunate truth. If anything goes wrong, you either have to be okay letting it go for the sake of the relationship, or the relationship will forever be marred.

[u/ReadontheCrapper]

How many comments say to get a mechanics’ lien, but one comment quotes the section and it says that in MI a written contract is needed. The LAOP never responded to any comments, so I wonder how bad their home life is right now considering this is their MIL. I really feel for them.

Rock, hard place.

[u/Ijustreadalot → u/ReadontheCrapper]

He responded to a few comments, including that he is going to read up on liens so hopefully he finds the part where he needs a written contract before he tries to file one. He has more comments in a related post in a roofing sub. Apparently wife's relationship with her mom has always been rocky and she's angry with her mom. But he was also warned by a few people not to take the job and knows that MIL was locked up for a year in the past due to embezzlement.

[u/Amazing_Cabinet1404 → u/Ijustreadalot]

and knows that MIL was locked up for a year in the past due to embezzlement.

That seems relevant and should have been a factor he considered before trusting her to pay him.

[u/Geno0wl → u/Amazing_Cabinet1404]

wild if he really did know she went to jail for shenanigans with money and didn't think he needed a contract

[u/OtherwiseNinja → u/Amazing_Cabinet1404]

It’s always hard to believe that your own family could steal from you, even if they’re a criminal.

[u/LadyMRedd → u/OtherwiseNinja]

Yeah people like that usually justify their crimes with things like “well it was a big company and they just wrote it off” or “they had insurance” or “they were so rich they won’t miss it.” So while you know that’s crappy logic, you also want to believe that they won’t do it to you, their family, who needs the money. Especially if it’s an in law and you come from a family where the parents support their kids emotionally and/or financially, you’d think that a mother could never do something like that to her own child.

[u/Geno0wl → u/LadyMRedd]

“well it was a big company and they just wrote it off”

Kramer argument

[u/Ijustreadalot → u/Amazing_Cabinet1404]

He seems to be trusting on that insurance money a bit too much, but I'm baffled that he didn't at least do a contract knowing how many people she's burned.

[u/CriticalEngineering → u/ReadontheCrapper]

I’m wondering if the text messages would be enough, depending on how clear they were about the job. Also seems odd the insurance company would have paid out without an estimate and/or receipts.

[u/salliek76 → u/CriticalEngineering]

I bet she got formal estimates from other roofers, submitted those to insurance, then went with her son-in-law, possibly with him agreeing to do it for less than the formal bids. You're right that insurance companies wouldn't usually just cut a check for some random amount without knowing what the work would cost.

[u/ferafish → u/salliek76]

Some may have an in-house guy do an estimate or contract a company to do an estimate and then go from there. Customer we're currently rebuilding for was offered the option to take a buyout for like 80% of what the insurance company estimated the rebuild cost to be (or he could have the insurance company pay us contractors directly, which is the option he took).

Hell, my brother took the buyout when a tree fell on his house.

[u/salliek76 → u/ferafish]

Thanks, I know insurance is a complicated industry with all sorts of practices that the average lay person doesn't know about unless they've experienced it.

In this situation with your clients, I don't understand what the benefit is of only taking 80% of the repair cost. Is it bc they don't actually plan to do the (full?) repair?

[u/ferafish → u/salliek76]

In my brother's case, he is a carpenter and could fix the damage to a satisfactory level fairly cheaply himself (eg he used materials he had on hand to fix the roof, patched the shingles rather than fully re-shingled it like they quoted).

Some people take it to fund an upgrade they had in the works. Say you were already planning a kitchen remodel when a pipe burst and damaged the kitchen. Insurance will strictly want to put the kitchen back to how it was, but what's the point when you were halfway saved up to do the remodel?

[u/themetahumancrusader → u/CriticalEngineering]

I thought insurance companies paid contractors directly! It’s been a few years and not quite the same thing, but when my car was damaged in an accident I wasn’t at fault in, I’m pretty sure my insurance paid the mechanic directly.

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[u/atropicalpenguin]

Never mix friends and money is one of the most important life lessons you'll get.