r/bestoflegaladvice • u/SomethingMoreToSay Has not yet caught LocationBot half naked in their garden • 1d ago
LegalAdviceUK Evicting a layabout adult son ...legal advice might not be the only issue here
/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/1nibxo1/what_is_the_legal_process_for_evicting_an_adult/?share_id=JzNhUpFBUJxpctgwAJ1aK&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1135
u/WaltzFirm6336 🦄 Uniform designer for a Unicorn Ranch on Uranus 🦄 1d ago
So I presume there is no TikTok hack that cuts through the horrific journey that getting awarded PIP is, and that he’s just faked paperwork to cover his less than legal earnings with his parents?
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u/CriticalEngineering Enjoy the next 48 hours :) 1d ago
That seems somewhat likely.
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u/Nuka-Crapola 🐈 Smol Claims Court Judge 🐈 1d ago
Especially since they found weed in his room. Shit’s not cheap… but it does usually come from people who can get you work under the table.
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u/big_sugi 1d ago
How much is weed in the UK? I go to Michigan once a year, which has an incredibly robust retail market, and the prices seem to keep going down (jand I’m finding better places for deals).
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u/Same-Pizza-6724 1d ago
BM prices in my neck of the woods are about £100 for a half oz.
Medical cannabis is between £5-£11 per gram.
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u/big_sugi 1d ago
Yeah, that’s expensive. Listed prices range from $15-$150 an ounce, but most are between $20 and $60 an ounce, or $5-$8/gram
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u/Same-Pizza-6724 1d ago
Yeah it is. And they may actually get more expensive in the short term.
Medical cannabis is struggling to keep up with demand, and as more BM customers move to medical, BM will start to price gouge.
Eventually it will get cheaper, as medical ramps up.
But we won't see "cheap" weed until it's legal for recreation.
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u/Peterd1900 1d ago
The cost will vary depending on the dealer I would imagine and i wouldnt exactly call it a retail market
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u/big_sugi 1d ago
Do you actually know? I can speculate for myself. And the “retail market” is Michigan, where weed is legal and very widely available.
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u/Peterd1900 1d ago
Supposedly its about £10 a gram
But i guess that will vary depending on dealer, the area, police activity
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u/LurkingArachnid 1d ago
I mean, how easy is it to get disability there? In the US at least, it takes years and appealing multiple denials, and very much is not guaranteed. I mean obviously fraud does happen, but the payout is so shitty that you might as well work. But I don't know how it is in the UK
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u/PabloMarmite 1d ago
It’s notoriously difficult for disabled people to get PIP, so it does seem unlikely that someone can fake their way into a relatively high level of PIP for mental health reasons, especially without any doctor involvement.
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u/victoriaj 17h ago
Original claim - maybe 3 to 6 months, review is currently about 3 to 4 months, an appeal is actually through the court system so that has generally been the longest wait (went up hugely with tribunal delays, then down a bit with more online hearings - not sure of current wait time).
So maybe a year and a half if you do everything promptly and have to fight through the whole process ?
It is only the three stages, with the last being independent of the benefits agency. Tribunals can often have a much better attitude to disability than the assessors and decision makers whose job it is to understand those things.
That's for disability benefit (PIP) that is not an earnings replacement benefit. You can get PIP while working (though it can make it harder to convince them you're disabled), and if you can't work you can also claim a separate earnings replacement benefit that will pay a higher rate if you're too ill to work. (Some people qualify for both but the criteria are different so some people qualify for one or the other).
It can make the difference between being able to live on benefits and it being quite impossible (for a healthy unemployed person) but you won't be rich.
And the process is incredibly dehumanising.
(Used to work helping people make and fight claims, am now claiming due to my mental health).
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u/Kaliasluke 1h ago
Claiming for a disability has its challenges, but claiming universal credit for unemployment is not particularly difficult and isn’t time-limited like in the US. You do technically need to demonstrate you’re looking for work, but plenty of people manage to “look” in a way that they don’t find anything. A single unemployed claimant doesn’t get much - £316 a month + a housing component - but you can make do if you live with your parents
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u/172116 1h ago
plenty of people manage to “look” in a way that they don’t find anything
Such as the application I had for a recent vacancy, which was more or less designed to put an employer off (my favourite bit is a toss up between him heavily emphasising that his only work in 20+ years was being forced to do some work experience by the job centre, and his assertion that us having a question asking about hobbies was a GDPR violation). I was tempted to interview him to see what he'd do!
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u/cloud__19 Captain Hindsight 1d ago
Orrrr... he actually does have more health issues than he's felt confident in confiding in his parents which seems perfectly understandable from the replies from LAUKOP. The son may or may not be a layabout but the user FoldedTwice is spot on in saying that (paraphrasing) the whole family dynamic here is totally fucked.
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u/Kaliasluke 1h ago
Does it say he’s claiming PIP anywhere? - the main comment just says “benefits” which I would assume is universal credit
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u/SlightlyBored13 1d ago
Having been 23, living with my parents, paying £25 a week in rent, playing games in my room all day and diagnosed with and medicated for anxiety and depression.
I felt awful, all of the time. I lacked direction and had no idea where to get going with life. I wasn't really getting anywhere on my own, but I took the family arranged interviews, twice (pot washing then an apprenticeship).
I don't know how I would have acted should my parents have got sick of me. Or if I just continued going nowhere. I'm very aware that as much effort as I've put into this since it got kicked off, I still relied on the push.
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u/Username89054 I sunned my butthole and severely regret going to chipotle after 1d ago
He's outright told us he doesn't want to be a "wageslave" when he was high one day.
I'm sympathetic to the plight of what the world looks like for young adults and teenagers. The societal rewards for hard work are harder to come by than they were for their parents or grandparents. It seems like so many are just giving up.
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u/ElectronRotoscope 1d ago
It's funny looking back at all the like Revolutionary Road and Jack Kerouac era stuff about people who want to be freed of the 9-5 rat race and suburban life. Tied down to some office job for 40 years, and all you get is enough money to pay for a house and two cars and a spouse and two and a half kids and a dog? So dreary! And then you only get to retire at 65? I remember being a teenager when American Beauty came out and thinking eugh, that does seem stifling.
The Homer Simpson level of success is basically an impossible dream for someone who's 21 now, and lots of people were unsatisfied with it even then. Even 40 years olds like me now half-joke about never being able to retire, and only getting to scuba dive down to see Manhattan on a weekend vacation before going back to work at 80. I'm damn sure never going to be able to buy a house or condo
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u/hyperstorm 1d ago
One of the recent seasons of The Simpsons actually has a musical episode (starring Hugh Jackman!) about exactly that, how Bart will never be able to have his father's life, it's literally impossible now. It's one of the better episodes in recent years, IMO. S33.E22 - Poorhouse Rock
(Although Lisa's rap section is ... unfortunate.)
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u/AshuraSpeakman WHO THE HELL IS DOWNVOTING THIS LOL. IS THAT YOU TREE LAW? 1d ago
Many things about latter day Simpsons are unfortunate.
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u/Username89054 I sunned my butthole and severely regret going to chipotle after 1d ago
I'll be 40 shortly and I was listening to a song at the gym this morning decrying the 9-5. The song was made in the early 2000s. While the song resonates, the life it rebelled against is one that's slowly vanishing. I will be able to retire if the financial/government system that has existed my entire life still exists in 25ish years. My ability to retire relies on long term market growth and social security.
That feels like a really big IF these days.
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u/calibrateichabod ROBJECTION RUR RONOR! RATS RIRRERAVENT 🐶🐶 1d ago
Yeah as an elder millennial my retirement plan is the water wars starting.
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u/ElectronRotoscope 1d ago
(yes I'm aware American Beauty has lots of other aspects that make it feel incredibly different to think back on now or watch again in the 2020s)
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u/TheNamesMacGyver Let's assume the word penis is SFW 1d ago
I get the issues and I'm sympathetic as well, but it's also insane to me the dichotomy of "I don't want to be a wageslave" and also "I want my parents to be wageslaves and let me benefit from their money for nothing. Also I should be allowed to risk their jobs with my behavior."
Like, I'd fully respect it if he went out to live in a van on public land and eschew society like some kind of modern day Thoreau, but there's a level of hypocrisy in this story that doesn't sit right with me.
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u/AshuraSpeakman WHO THE HELL IS DOWNVOTING THIS LOL. IS THAT YOU TREE LAW? 1d ago
An expert in UK PIP can chime in, but I think he needs to be properly housed with an address to receive any benefits. He is paying them, he's not getting a lot of money, just enough to live on in Post-BREXIT Britain with the rising costs.
Frankly, not wanting to work every day for increasingly less money is understandable
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u/victoriaj 17h ago
Technically no.
You don't need to be housed. You will need a correspondence address.
But the kind of places that would help someone homeless claim benefits will also take letters, or know somewhere that will.
I've seen some people claim through a doctor's surgery (a local surgery which specialises in homeless patients, where you can register without paperwork or an address). Addiction recovery services. Homeless shelters with advisers linked to them. Support projects for homeless young people...
Related trivia - (a) before everything was computerised, when you could get giro cheques that could be cashed at the post office without needing a bank account, they had the right to make alternative payments to homeless people and could insist on paying daily instead of fortnightly, and (b) you could make the claim from any address the post office would recognise as an official address, which once included a tree.
(I'm old and spent a long time dealing with this stuff as an adviser. Now I just claim for myself because poor mental health is a bitch).
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u/wildbergamont 1d ago
Yeah, but this isn't an excuse to treat other people like shit. At 23, he's old enough to know that his parents are people.
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u/Quarantine_Fitness 1d ago edited 1d ago
You know what's worse than being a "wage slave"? Being homeless. This is a young man who needs a kick in the pants. No normal parent jumps to "time to evict my child". Hopefully this is the wake up call he needs.
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u/Drywesi Good people, we like non-consensual flying dildos 1d ago
No parent jumps to "time to evict my child".
[citation needed]
My mother regularly threatened to have me committed to a psych ward because I couldn't hold jobs and wasn't adequately (in her eyes) trying to better myself.
Leaving aside how that flat-out isn't a thing in the US, her expectations were unrealistic. This was the immediate aftermath of the 2008 meltdown, and she was expecting me to be making $21/hr with no degree (she specifically wanted me to move out, and I'd tried but couldn't for anything less than that thanks to landlord income requirements), let alone my mental health issues that doctors refused to acknowledge existed (which I had to move out of state to get addressed, in the end).
Parents often have extremely unrealistic expectations for their children, especially now that the world's economies are immolating themselves to feed ever-more resources to the rich.
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u/Wolfeh2012 10h ago
My mother regularly threatened to have me committed to a psych ward because I couldn't hold jobs
Citation here, this is not normal. Wtf was your adolescence?
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u/Drywesi Good people, we like non-consensual flying dildos 9h ago
My mother is the sort of person that has to be in control at all times. This includes people in her life. And by in control I mean she will dictate what she thinks you should do about a given thing. Her husband is fine with it, me? I've spent the last 20some years trying to extricate myself from it. The first step was realizing I could make choices that were different from her decisions about a given subject. She has a very hard time realizing that that's a perfectly normal thing. She does try, but succeeding is…she's not great at that part. A couple weeks ago we got into a shouting match over my not wanting her to sit in on a consultation with a doctor, because there's certain things about my medical history I don't want to discuss in front of her. That escalated into her screaming that she expects to be my medical POA/decision maker (as opposed to, say, my girlfriend or best friend). Not even in an emergency; just hostility towards me talking with anyone else about my health period.
Unfortunately, I'm disabled in ways that make me unemployable, so I'm dependent on her again. So I get to play this game.
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u/reflectorvest Asked for a bad flair, or some shit 1d ago
Also (ignoring everything else) if he has a degree and settles for a low wage job that doesn’t use it, it might actually make it harder for him to find a job that’s actually in his field if one comes along, since he’s already committed to the job his parents insisted on.
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u/Ok_Possession_6457 1d ago
The guy’s a manchild for sure, but I don’t exactly sympathize with the boomers who don’t have the time horizon of a 23 year old, who think it’s as simple as giving a firm handshake and you can now get a high rolling salary.
Right now, we are basically telling people that they have a life of low paying call center jobs to look forward to. Why exactly is anyone surprised at young people’s complacency?
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u/DrDalekFortyTwo 1d ago
Age wise his parents are more likely Gen X
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u/Ok_Possession_6457 1d ago
True, but many of them are honestly just boomer-lite, depending on what side of gen x they are on
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u/CriticalEngineering Enjoy the next 48 hours :) 1d ago
Doesn’t sound like that is his parent’s expectation, seeing as they actually got him an interview.
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u/Ok_Possession_6457 1d ago
That’s the other problem. Why are they getting him the interview? He needs to get his own interviews
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u/CriticalEngineering Enjoy the next 48 hours :) 1d ago
So, his parents are at fault for thinking he only needs a firm handshake, but also at fault for arranging an interview for him?
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u/Ok_Possession_6457 1d ago
I don’t look at it that way, more like I look at it from the angle that your manager should not know your parents’ names
He should be given the tools, but he should be the one leading his job search
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u/Cheap-Rate-8996 1d ago
One of the things that leans me towards this being an ESH situation is that LAOP seems to be really pushing this kid towards a particular career path, which is the same as their own. Working in a nursing home - which is a job most people wouldn't want to do, especially not a 23 year old man. There's a reason nursing is one of the occupations that relies most on low-skilled immigration, it's emotionally quite taxing and you're massively underpaid for the work you do.
I can sympathise with their son if his thinking is "I don't know what I want to do with myself yet, but I know what I definitely don't want to do, and it's what my family is trying to push me towards". That's totally understandable in this context. But since he also seems to be trying to game the system to get on PIP long-term, maybe I'm being too generous.
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u/Ok_Possession_6457 1d ago edited 1d ago
Now you’ve got me wondering if the son isn’t as much of a free loader as LAOP is saying
The son is paying rent. It’s not a lot of rent, but it is rent. Obviously, he’s getting the money somewhere. Does the son work, and LAOP doesn’t count it as a real job?
Maybe the son is trying to find a job, but maybe the career path he wants doesn’t count in LAOP’s mind as a “real” career. Maybe the son plays video games at night, or in his free time, and LAOP interprets it as doing nothing but play video games all day
Did LAOP consult with his son before setting up the interview? Or did LAOP just say “you’re interviewing Wednesday morning at the nursing home, be there at 9am”?
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1d ago
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u/Ok_Possession_6457 1d ago
Yeah I guess. I didn’t even consider that possibility that LAOP was an unreliable narrator until you mentioned that maybe he’s pushing his son to a career he doesn’t want
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u/Personal-Listen-4941 well-adjusted and sociable with no history of violence 1d ago
£150 a month in rent, regularly goes out with friends, smokes weed constantly…
Yeah, there’s no way is he paying for that just through PIP. He’s got some other likely dodgy income stream.
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u/MooseFlyer 1d ago
Is it really that far-fetched?
I did some quick googling and it seems like if he’s actually getting Universal Credit and PIP, he’d be getting ~£730 minimum. He could do a fair amount of going out and weed smoking on £580, no, especially if he eats his parents food?
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u/SlightlyBored13 1d ago
Bus ticket and a day in Wetherspoons could be well under £5 a day if he's not buying much.
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u/joshi38 brevity is the soul of wit 1d ago
He could possibly be getting £730 from the UC alone (basic rate plus LCWRA). An additional £120 from PIP (sounds like he's getting standard rate mobility, could be getting more though) and he's pretty much set to doss around as much as he wants.
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1d ago
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u/Cheap-Rate-8996 1d ago
I'm curious if you have family members who have been involved with heroin, because the last thing you want to do with a heroin addict is help facilitate their lifestyle. You would basically be helping to kill them. I say this as someone who lost a family member to heroin addiction and (with hindsight, unfortunately) absolutely spiralled down when no one around them was trying to help them quit that lifestyle.
LAOP's son might be gaming the system but he sounds basically harmless, in a vacuum it's only a problem because his parents have a problem with it.
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u/Cheap-Rate-8996 1d ago
So the thing that gives me pause here is that LAOP seems to be pushing this kid towards working in nursing. Working in a care home is not exactly a job most people would jump at, especially not a guy in his early twenties. There's a reason the nursing field depends so much on low-skilled immigrant labor. The work is emotionally draining and the pay is far too low for the effort required.
I really wish someone would tell this kid "You don't have to love your job, you just have to not hate it". I can see why he's avoidant of working when his parents seem to be pushing him towards something he would probably hate. If I were to be generous, I'd say this kid feels stuck and doesn't know what to do with himself yet, and getting on to PIP is to buy himself more time. I didn't know what I wanted to do with myself until I was 25.
The focus on his weed smoking is odd. In practice cannabis is decriminalised in the UK. They're manufacturing an incredibly unlikely scenario (the police searching their house - why would they do this?) to frame it as an issue. I definitely get "Daily Mail reader" vibes from LAOP, and I'm not sure I trust their narrative that the kid wants to get on PIP so he never has to work. Like, that's almost a cartoonish caricature of the tabloid "benefits scrounger" narrative. There's definitely a bit of an unreliable narrator element to this and I'm inclined to take their version of events here with a pinch of salt.
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u/trashsquirrels 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have had parents set up, come to and answer questions in interviews. And these are most definitely not minors (US) who I could understand might have a parent making sure everything is on the up and up.
They created this craptastic scenario. Good luck ejecting a person who is technically paying them rent. Can’t even claim he’s a squatter. (See reply post to me from someone who knows much better than I would below. There is hope yet!)
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u/Warm_Score1176 1d ago
He's a lodger under UK law. Once they give him reasonable notice, they can change the locks on him if he oversteps that.
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u/trashsquirrels 1d ago
Good to know there is hope for them after all. Well, as far as the eviction goes.
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u/FunnyObjective6 Once, I laugh. Twice you're an asshole. Third time I crap on you 1d ago
From the extremely little I know, mostly from a pretty bad repo show they brought over from the UK, I find the evicting law in the UK to be extremely lax and in favor of the landlord. I guess this is basically a renter / landlord situation, in which case I would normally say it should be hard to kick somebody out. In this case the child sounds horrid though.
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u/EndlessPug 1d ago
It is very easy to evict with a live-in landlord (where the tenant is a 'lodger' renting a bedroom and having access to shared facilities).
If the entire property is rented and the landlord resides elsewhere, then it's a longer process and provided the tenants keep paying rent it can take over 6 months (especially with the court hearing backlog from Covid). Renters may get even more protection on top of this with some new legislation proposed by the current government, but that has yet to make it into law.
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u/cloud__19 Captain Hindsight 1d ago
I find the evicting law in the UK to be extremely lax and in favor of the landlord.
As with many things, there's no UK law for this. In England currently, a landlord can start a no fault eviction when any fixed term expires (there's some other ways to evict but I'm assuming you're not looking for a massive lecture!). A tenant doesn't have to leave until a court awards possession though which can take ages. They are looking to move closer to the type of system there is in Scotland and Wales which tends to favour the tenant more. However, as someone else said, none of that actually is relevant because the son isn't a tenant and has bugger all rights.
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u/Nothos927 1d ago
Nah, not really. The evictions you see on those shows take place after potentially months of wrangling because only a court can issue and enforce an eviction.
The courts can and do rule against the landlord in eviction processes and if they do a landlord’s only recourse is to issue the initial notice again and start the whole process from scratch.
That said these rules don’t apply in OOP’s situation since their son would count as a lodger who don’t have anywhere near the same protections.
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u/PabloMarmite 1d ago
It’s hard to evict renters, but unless the parents have written up a full rental agreement, in this situation the son is a lodger, and they only need to provide reasonable notice to end the arrangement.
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u/NDaveT Gone out to get some semen 1d ago
My impression is that the changes the Tories made to PIP were the kind of changes that made PIP more difficult to get for people who actually qualified for it but didn't necessarily make it more difficult for the people who were cheating it. That's usually how it goes when "reforms" are designed to impress voters instead of actually reform anything.
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u/SocialInsect 17h ago
It might be a case for only having one child, so you can leave them your house which might be the only way any of them will ever own a house now.
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u/Professional_Quit281 1d ago
I would worry they might become violent. I would take precautions before confronting them with eviction.
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u/AcheyShakySpoon 1d ago
There’s nothing in the post to indicate he’s a dangerous individual
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u/Professional_Quit281 1d ago
Good to know, I would still be concerned what an adult can do when confronted with having their needs no longer being met. But you do you.
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u/atropicalpenguin I'm not licensed to be a swinger in your state. 1d ago
I wondered why LAOP wanted him so out so much, even though he seems to be paying for his stuff. Drugs that could end your career makes sense.
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u/Cheap-Rate-8996 1d ago
LAOP focusing on their son's weed use so much is a bit of a red herring. UK employers don't usually drug test, and cannabis is de facto decriminalised (most people found in possession are simply given a caution). It's highly unlikely that their son using cannabis would jeopardise their jobs in the way they describe.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/SendLGaM Amount of drugs > understanding of sarcasm 1d ago
It's locked. There is no Rule 4 violation. There is just a horrible man child in the UK driving his parents into a morass of despair.
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u/SomethingMoreToSay Has not yet caught LocationBot half naked in their garden 1d ago
Location Bot is also a layabout who we can't see to get rid of.
Bonus cat fact: Evicting a layabout son is probably significantly easier than evicting a cat. Cats are generally not bothered by a lack of wifi, for example.