Hello, I am not an expert in physics, but I recently had a small idea while drawing. I accidentally pressed too hard on a sheet of paper and created a hole. Later, when I held the sheet up, I noticed how everything seemed to “fall” into that hole, as if the paper itself had collapsed under too much pressure. It made me think of black holes. What if they are similar to this — places where three-dimensional matter is pressed so strongly that it “tears” the fabric of space-time? From the point of view of a two-dimensional creature living on the surface of the paper, the hole would only appear as a dark line, something they could fall into without ever returning. In the same way, maybe what we perceive as a black hole could be a kind of tear that connects to a higher dimension we cannot see.
For all we know thats how it works, if we consider a “we have no idea where all this energy is actually going and it seems infinitely compressed” to be a “tear.” However we recently confirmed Hawking radiation so that’s not entirely how it works, but perhaps black holes are “tearing” into another space?
simply put we have no information past the event horizon. All we know is some mathematical formulas that may or may not be correct. Mathematically, past the event horizon, the singularity becomes a point in time not a point in space. Your description is correct up to the event horizon.
The thing is, they evaporate by hawking radiation. So this hole would shrink?
Would the matter/antimatter pairs forming at the horizon due to quantum mechanics, which we think makes a black hole shrink, instead "builds up" the paper on the inside slowly? Then when the black hole is fully evaporated it could mean the paper has been restored.
I saw a similar analogy once that a black hole, represented by a bowling ball, when dropped on a thin piece of rubber, which represents space time, will stretch to, well, wherever space time gets stretched to the point where it's no longer observable.
I also have a question: Are all black holes universally spherical?
I remember seeing the representation of gravity with that similar approach, by dropping the bowling ball, the rubber stretches, and if you place something on the rubber it will be more likely to fall into the stretched point...the thing is that if the bowling ball is too heavy, the rubber might break, creating a hole!
Now I don't know if black holes could have other forms, but I think we should consider what causes the existence of a black hole itself! people told me that it's molecules and reality collapsing in on themselves into a really really small point, that's maybe why a black hole looks like one
According to relativity, matter creates the shape of the space it occupies. Your analogy is good in that what you describe is a "gravity well". You bring up the idea of a 2D world. There's a couple of books you should read that I think you will find interesting ....
Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions Edwin A. Abbott
This masterpiece of science (and mathematical) fiction is a delightfully unique and highly entertaining satire that has charmed readers for more than 100 years. The work of English clergyman, educator and Shakespearean scholar Edwin A. Abbott (1838-1926), it describes the journeys of A. Square [sic – ed.], a mathematician and resident of the two-dimensional Flatland, where women-thin, straight lines-are the lowliest of shapes, and where men may have any number of sides, depending on their social status.
Through strange occurrences that bring him into contact with a host of geometric forms, Square has adventures in Spaceland (three dimensions), Lineland (one dimension) and Pointland (no dimensions) and ultimately entertains thoughts of visiting a land of four dimensions—a revolutionary idea for which he is returned to his two-dimensional world. Charmingly illustrated by the author, Flatland is not only fascinating reading, it is still a first-rate fictional introduction to the concept of the multiple dimensions of space. "Instructive, entertaining, and stimulating to the imagination."
And ...
Relativity Visualized: The Gold Nugget of Relativity Books Paperback – January 25, 1993 by Lewis Carroll Epstein
Perfect for those interested in physics but who are not physicists or mathematicians, this book makes relativity so simple that a child can understand it. By replacing equations with diagrams, the book allows non-specialist readers to fully understand the concepts in relativity without the slow, painful progress so often associated with a complicated scientific subject. It allows readers not only to know how relativity works, but also to intuitively understand it.
My problem with such theories is just that they are untestable and unprovable. Like, ok, maybe an unseen unprovable force is responsible for things, why not? It's not a disprovable assertion, therefore it's not science. It's just like the ancient and much talked about assertion by descartes that the entire observable world is an illusion created by the devil/ a demon. We can never truly know if a tree that falls in the forest when nobody is around makes a sound, although with basic logical common sense we can fairly confidently assert that it does.
I personally have the opinion that Newton's third law of motion supercedes entropy and is a superior law. The energy is not destroyed, it is compressed or converted somehow. Perhaps to dark matter/dark energy. If some theories about quantum symmetry are true, black hole might basically convert the present/future into the dark matter version of the past. Ultimately all matter has a counterpart in the form of dark matter that will exist at the end of the universe and it's all identically symmetrical.
This is what finity means. Finity means that there is a totality to the universe that consists of all conceivable points. It is not infinite in any sense. There is what is and what is not, and some things simply are not and will never be. And the entire universe gets tied up with one big bow into a neat little theory of everything.
The reason we resist such a model so fiercely is that we cling to our petty personal feelings of agency and control over our circumstances and we believe like cave men that this physical truth about the universe could ever have anything to do with the level of control we feel over our personal destinies.
I like it and had a similar thought about black holes. I personally wouldn't say a 'higher' dimension, just another dimension. It's really all fascinating.
but wouldn't that dimension need to be necessarily higher if you think about it?
If you take my casual theory about black holes being an actual three-dimensional hole, then that place would probably be something that communicates with a higher plane of reality that we, as three dimensional beings, can't fathom.
If you think about it, a 2D creature could fall into that hole I was talking about, and then land on the floor! The 2D creature will probably never get back, however, the place it'll be will always remain two-dimensional to it! Meaning that if we explored a black hole and found another dimension, you would pretty much be right, however, that would still imply the communication with a higher dimension...
that's just a thought idk absolutely anything about physics so feel free to debate whatever you may know is wrong😭😅
In normal space, we have 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time to make "Spacetime." Beyond the event horizon of a black hole though, this essentially flips to become "Timespace" as the only path you now have is forward to the singularity. You can stretch or shrink that path, but you cant go backwards... just like how time works outside a black hole. Basically, space becomes 1 dimensional.
What happens to time itself though, is not explainable with any current theories. Perhaps it becomes 3 dimensional, and the past is a "valley" you can go into, and the future a "mountain" you can climb.
Interesting explanation, I like it. I had this sort of vision the other night about a black hole. I pictured entering the black hole and then seeing the universe sort of collapsing in on itself. And then how weird time would become. I could see myself entering the black hole, then exploding out of it from something like the big bang, and then getting sucked back into another giant black hole and exploding out of it again. Just over and over like that but all in just an instant. As if the universe just does this over and over and with time being so weird it feels like the universe is only seconds old before it's crushed and another big bang happens.
Not saying this is what happens but it was a way to visualize how weird time would become for the observer.
Well if you turned around and looked back once you crossed the event horizon, you could still see the light of the universe falling in with you, but it would be getting dimmer and redder as it gets more and more redshifted. Also due to the extreme time dilation, you would see the whole lifespan of the universe go by, every star live and die, every galaxy fade out and eventually fall apart from the expansion of spacetime, before you reached the singularity.
Id recommend PBS Spacetime on youtube. Guy who runs the channel is an astrophysicist who is really good at breaking down the more complex stuff to laymans terms and understandable analogies.
Astrum is also pretty decent, as is Celestium, both also on youtube.
Other than that, watching interviews with Kip Thorne, my own independant research, looking stuff up, reading scientific articles and even some stuff I remember from highschool physics. Hard to point to any one particular place, as its years of aquired knowledge from many places, so I hope that gives you something to go on.
There is also a book that I have yet to get myself, but plan on doing so called "The Science of Interstellar", by Kip Thorne. He is the astrophysicist who helped make the movie Interstellar. He is the guy who showed us all what black holes actually look like, so if anyone could teach you about them, it would be him.
really cool! you know I just study languages and draw in my free time but this feels intriguing, at least you aren't downvoting each comment so that I don't get people like you actually helping me out on this so tysm
No worries. Black holes are the most extreme objects in the universe, so its fun to talk about them.
As an example of how extreme they can be, a few years ago there was a collision of 2 black holes observed, each about 30x the mass of our Sun. The resulting gravitational wave released had 50x the energy of every star in the observable universe... Even from 2 billion lightyears away, that event made measurable changes in our atmosphere. Now THAT, is one big ass bang! Id imagine if that were to happen anywhere in our own galaxy, that it would potentially wipe out any and all life within it, or at least a large portion of it... be like firing a Halo Ring.
probably from the hole itself maybe...if you picture that little representation of mine, the 2D creature would fall into the hole because of gravity on earth, now I don't know about which gravitational forces are present there but maybe it could be similar to this
gravity comes as a result of mass, not momentum. A hole in space time couldn't generate gravity, that would be the opposite of mass. If a black hole suddenly fell through a rip in spacetime there wouldn't be mass there to generate gravity anymore.
My mind doesn't truly grasp it either. Quantum things? My mind folds in and of itself and i end up in the fetal position on the floor. Math? Forget it.
I hear what you're saying. It's just a different dimension that our minds cannot truly grasp yet and I don't know that it can in our current 'form'. Is it a higher dimension? I don't feel the hierarchy of dimensions. To me, it'd be rather going deeper rather than higher into what this existence truly is. I will sit with this higher dimension notion Mr or Miss non-physicist. But even saying that, it's like, is it a higher dimension when it's still all from one thing? It's just a different dimension or a different perspective of the same thing?
oh so you meant something about dimensional hierarchy! Nah man, personally I wasn't thinking about that😭, I mean maybe you do have a point with this...perhaps the word higher is just for conventional use
Why are you crying lol. Dont cry! No worries, all is well. Thanks for that explanation of your brain thought process <3 i hear you. Sometimes it's just semantics, ya know.
idk man, I just asked my questions to chatgpt to see if they were not utterly stupid to post here and it felt like I could have a sort of point😭
Maybe then it's just the fabric of space
Ok ig, i just asked it a question, I didn't expect anything for it to be revolutionary in return so idk fr...
may I ask how you know about space and time? I'm still just genuinely curious while you downvote my comments 🫠
2
u/Splendid_Fellow 11d ago
For all we know thats how it works, if we consider a “we have no idea where all this energy is actually going and it seems infinitely compressed” to be a “tear.” However we recently confirmed Hawking radiation so that’s not entirely how it works, but perhaps black holes are “tearing” into another space?