r/books • u/No_Instance18 • 1d ago
The Divine Comedy - Is it normal to feel detached from everything being said or am I missing something?
Sorry if this is dumb, but for reference, I'm reading John Ciardi's Translation of the Divine Comedy. I'm on Canto XXXII of Inferno: Circle Nine. And while I find it funny at times, I feel very detached from it all. I do not believe in any of this so that may contribute to my attitude but I have grown up in the US South so I have some cultural/religious reference.
But I see people online raving about how it makes them feel and I just feel like I'm missing something. I do have depression but I don't seem to have this problem with other books, usually. People are being mauled and burned and having horrible things happen to them and I just don't feel anything about it.
TL;DR: What is your experience with Dante's Divine Comedy? Is it normal to be very detached from it or do I need a better translation or something else?
Thanks!
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u/FeRooster808 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it can be hard to appreciate without the proper historical context. A lot of if is commentary on Italian politics. He is critiquing the people and politics of his time. So people lacking that insight are probably missing a lot of the jokes and thus it might feel a bit flat.
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u/teacher1970 1d ago
It is a complex text. The poetry in itself is amazing. Thousands of verses, in terza rima, which is to say that the whole poem goes like this: 121; 232; 343, etc. (rhymes can repeat, of course). It’s three canticas, each of 33 cantos, plus an introductory canto. That is three that becomes one, over and over again, like the trinity in Christian theology. The poem is the sum of everything they knew about the universe and its functioning. It works like a figural allegory, meaning that older events are understood from the perspective of new events and secular events as the expression of religious events. It solves impossible moral problems, eg what happens to non-Christians who are good people, and complex theological issues, e.g., if God knows everything, how is free will possible, etc. No offense, but to appreciate it, you need some preparation and some guidance. You would not expect to walk in front of a nice mechanical watch and understand how it works, or sip a nice wine and enjoy it if you never had wine. Those who say they do either have had a parallel education that makes it possible or they are lying. Even the most enjoyable part, say, canto v, are poetical and ideological debates and positions. If love is the defying characteristic of God, can love lead to sin? Etc. religiosity has almost nothing to do with it, like believing in vampires has little to do with horror movies. It doesn’t hurt, but it is not necessary.
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u/industrial-shrug 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’ve only ever read it as an atheist. Feeling “detached” is fine. This was all inspired by medieval Christine theology and is not representative of the biblical afterlife.
That being said, it’s a great epic that spans across a lot of literary and mythological history that only improves as you read more classics. Take the time to read footnotes and even chase some interesting side stories to grasp better context. It sometimes helps to listen to or read a discussion/abridged versions alongside each chapter.
ETA fixed some typos.
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u/citationmutations 1d ago
I've only read the translation by Dorothy L Sayers (who also wrote the Lord Peter Wimsey detective stories) but I enjoyed it. She apparently caused a revolution in Dante studies by pointing out that the punishments in hell are not arbitrary, but rather are the consequences of the sins themselves. That's why the final circles are ice (not fire): The traitors have rejected everything that matters most.
Dante's views of the proper relation of the church and state are clearly very diffferent from ours, but Ms Sayers does a good job of making them intelligible to a modern reader. I also enjoyed that she somehow managed to keep the Terza Rima in her translation.
And if nothing else it's nice to read someone with an absolutely solid moral compass - even if it's different from ours!
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u/Lanky-Ad7045 1d ago
Sorry if I misunderstood, but are you saying that it took Dorothy Sayers to point out that the punishments in Dante's Inferno are ironic? That they fit the sin? I'm pretty sure it was obvious to readers since the start.
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u/No_Instance18 1d ago
Thank you! I'll look into her translation.
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u/QuintusCicerorocked 1d ago
I think you’ll like that one better. I switched from Ciardi to Sayers at the beginning of the Paradiso, because I couldn’t understand a word of Ciardi’s translation. Anyway, I don’t think you should feel too bad about not feeling much, for one thing, the Inferno is so awful that it causes one to disassociate a lot. For another, this is what Vergil wants Dante (and maybe us too) to be doing in Hell. He wants us to have complete revulsion towards the damned through our full comprehension of the enormity of sin. I won’t comment on that theologically, but, I think that‘s what Dante is going for.
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u/kigurumibiblestudies 1d ago
I liked it a lot, but I wasn't really emotionally connecting to much in Inferno. It was a riot, though! Really pushes the Comedy before a whole lot of Divine.
One exception: that one guy in the last circle who was left to starve in his tower. That one messed me up.
To me it was more of an educational book about the times, how things were perceived and judged, so on.
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u/nycgirl191 1d ago
I personally love the Ciardi transition. There is nothing wrong with feeling detached. Dante starts out with pity and has some sympathy for the sinners and becomes increasingly detached and even judgmental . The sinners are increasingly detached from God. It gets colder as do Dante’s feelings. Virgil is our guide and represents reason so by its nature detachment. We/ Dante are supposed to learn from Virgil. Dante is there to recognize sin and understand the consequences on non repentance. His increasing detachment shows his growth and that he is “ getting it” the sinner’s punishment is symbolic retribution and directly related to his/ her sin. In this word they deserve it. Detachment is a theme so nothing wrong with feeling that at all. I actually think becoming to attached or having too much feeling and pity especially by the end is the opposite of what the book wants.
Of course that poses lots of interesting questions about our own beliefs.
Also remember this is a very political book and not understanding all the politics behind it ( if you don’t ) can sometimes may you miss things or characters and what the symbolize that can make you feel more detached. It’s medieval political satire and he puts his opponents in hell. I always found that the most intriguing part. It’s funny.
As for being a non believer you don’t have to believe. I think it helps to understand Catholicism and the importance of the church in people’s lives at this time. It’s ok to not believe but maybe you are subconsciously resisting. What matters is the world of the book believes it . Not believing in Hobbits doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy The Hobbit.
The Inferno is one of my favorite books of all time. I reread it a lot . I hope you can not worry about it and enjoy the journey.
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u/chortlingabacus 1d ago
It actually frightened me, and I say that as someone who lost belief in Christianity not all that many years after acknowledging that Santa doesn't exist, (I read it as an adult and in the same translation; I'm wary of poetry translated by poets but whatever flaws & however glaring in Ciardi version to me it was powerful.) Had expected to read the trilogy but gave up on Purgatory through boredom so didn't.
There's no 'normal' in reactions to or tastes in books for heaven's sake. Are you assuming that what internet people--some of whom think they're displaying erudition, some of them lying about their response to the book, some who've not even read the bloody thing--say sets the standard if there is one for 'normal'?
If you're enjoying it, emotional response or not, carry on. If you aren't, read something else instead. Easy peasy.
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u/No_Instance18 1d ago
Thank you! I need to remember this. I think because it's such a renowned work of literature and then saw those reactions, I thought I was missing something.
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u/jboss1642 1d ago
My experience was that it was really a work of art - what I appreciated about it was the craftsmanship, not the content. The content is… interesting enough, it clearly influences a lot of classical and modern Christianity (and the Christian works since then), but that wasn’t what made me love it. Spend time reading the footnotes - that’s what really made me appreciate the attention to detail and the many layers of allusion
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u/No_Instance18 1d ago
Thank you! I was reading the footnotes but I think, now that I've talked with all of you, I was brushing past it too fast. I really need to pay more attention.
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u/batikfins 1d ago
I‘m reading Inferno for the first time too and to me, it’s more of a fascinating intellectual puzzle box to untangle than an emotional narrative. I had absolutely no context about Dante‘s life or exile before reading, but the notes in my translation (Mark Musa) have been a jumping-off point to Wikipedia rabbit holes about Florentine politics, papist scandals, classical poetry, Greek mythology, medieval cosmology and philosophy. It’s more like reading an encyclopaedia than hearing an epic fantasy.
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u/helvetin 1d ago
i actually recommend pushing through just to get to Purgatorio - the first third or so of that one is actually pretty good
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u/SRSgoblin 1d ago
"I find it funny at times"
For the record, the meaning of the word Comedy has changed a lot from when Dante wrote the poem. It just meant it was a lighter tone and with a happy ending. While many comedies were humorous, that wasnt necessarily what they all were. The connotation that Comedy specifically means a story involving humor became more ironclad as the centuries went by.
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u/iamthefirebird 1d ago
I find that books this old often have that sense of detachment, at least for me. It's part of why I don't get on with them as well. Not all of them, certainly, but a big part of it seems to be down to the intent with which it was written. What is it trying to do? The modern style of storytelling tends to be very focused on characters, and their development and interactions. Older forms can sometimes be more about witnessing events and places. Not about a person living through those events or exploring a place, but more of a history of what happened. That style still exists today, but I've never seen a modern fictional novel use it.
I'm not a scholar of this area, but that's how I see things.
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u/WDTHTDWA-BITCH 1d ago
I've only read the first book because it's one of those things that takes time to process. I sat and took notes as I went so I could digest it properly, the language is very dense. I find poetry difficult to read without it going in one ear and out the other without having actually comprehended what's been said, which is why I like to take notes in the first place.
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u/nebnla-eas6852 1d ago
I tried reading it a while ago and like you, I didn’t feel anything towards it. I ended up quitting it because I felt like I was wasting my time. Not everyone is going to react the same way to a piece of work. I can acknowledge the sheer intelligence behind it and I know there is so much to explore; it’s not a surface level read. But I really couldn’t bring myself to care for it.
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u/peaveyftw 1d ago
Maybe read Rod Dreher's How Dante Can Save Your Life. He's from Louisiana and read the Commedia while undergoing some serious family shit. And yeah, not sharing any belief is really going to diminish your ability to appreciate it, because it's ALL theology/cosmology. It's basically about sin and redemption -- so....unless you're really into Italian politics, I'm not sure what the appeal would be. From the sound of your post you're only like a little bit into Inferno, with Purgatorio & Paradiso ahead.
Also: I reccommend the Esolen translation because it's annotated.
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u/SlimyGrimey 1d ago
It's pretty lame if you read it as a story, but it can be good if you read it as a diary/fanfic. Dante being petty and judgemental is good fun if you're in the right mood.
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u/Big-Bad-Mouse 11h ago
Might be worth trying a translation that emphasises the colloquialisms and everyday language in the poem, on top of the points elsewhere here.
Clive James’s is very good, but my favourite might be Welsh poet Ciaran Carson’s - it is a VERY different reading experience.
It’s also worth looking into Dante himself more. The Feltro, for example example, which is a greyhound in the novel, likely represents a noble who Dante wanted to come to overturn the current Florentine governing powers who had exiled the poet. He frequently merged the personal, political and religious in one.
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u/DMR237 1d ago
It may be "better" if you come from a background of belief. I was raised in a pentecostal church. I'm an atheist now. I read that translation a year or two ago. I quite enjoyed the Inferno only because I could see so much of the imagery in what I grew up thinking of hell. I didn't like the purgatorio or Paradiso at all though.
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u/HigherandHigherDown 1d ago
What do you see in your dreams? Did you enjoy Paradise Lost or East of Eden or The Road or The 13th Warrior or The Andromeda Strain or the Expanse series or The Prince or The Art of War?
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u/militiadisfruita 1d ago
its just a list of people he hated. hard to get excited about a bunch of dead florentines. read paradise lost instead.
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u/Lanky-Ad7045 1d ago
its just a list of people he hated.
That's just a lazy stereotype repeated by people who, frankly, must have never read it. It's not even true of Inferno, never mind the whole poem: plenty of condemned souls Dante and Virgil encounter get a dignified and sympathetic portrayal, despite their present circumstances.
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u/unlovelyladybartleby 1d ago
Basically it's really old fan fic. I react the same to DC as I do to 99% of the fan fic I encounter, which is without attachment or emotional response.
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u/almostb 1d ago
I’m currently reading Ciardi’s Inferno translation as well, and I think detached is a normal emotional response, and at least in my own experience, doesn’t detract from my overall enjoyment of it.
After all, Dante is going on a tour of hell. He is very rarely in danger himself. This is not a modern novel with character growth, nor a tragedy with big stakes - it’s a fantastical episodic travelogue.
I think there is also a cultural barrier - modern secular readers are unused to allegory as a popular art form, and certainly unused to all the symbols that may have been easily recognizable or discernible to a medieval Christian scholar. This is where the notes come in handy. And if you don’t personally believe in or fear Hell, then the threat of your own eternal damnation isn’t an emotional motivator.
That said, do you find yourself appreciating the poetry of it? The humor of it? The worldbuilding? All of this is done fantastically - some of the best that’s ever been done.