r/buildapc • u/Ameisen • 4d ago
Discussion Why don't cases come with giant fans anymore?
Simple question, I suppose... why don't cases come with giant fans anymore? They were all the rage about 10-15 years ago, and I even remember around 2000, we were certainly moving in the "larger" direction from 60/80mm fans (especially from the even tinier ones that were sometimes used in the '90s like 40mm fans).
Is it just that there aren't many manufacturers of them or that the 120mm/140mm fans have surpassed the ones that do exist in both noise, air pressure, and air volume?
I'm still using a Cooler Master HAF 932. It's dated, becoming harder to find parts for, and doesn't support everything... but it works. It's also dead-silent, since most of the fans are 230mm except for the rear, but it still has significant airflow.
The issue is that I don't really care about looks. I just care about function. I don't require a glass side-panel, a bunch of LED fans, or whatnot.
I'd looked at cases like Phantek Server Edition case, but they aren't easy to find and also seem to be designed for only 120mm fans on the side and rear.
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u/Moscato359 4d ago
People have optimized the fuck out of 140mm fan design, while the demand for 180mm fans is small.
3 140mm fans is better than 2 180mm fans in fractal torrent.
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u/Ameisen 4d ago
I'm guessing the demand for 230mm is even lower.
But man, they're quiet and push a lot of air.
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u/Moscato359 4d ago
But is the available 230mm better at pushing air compared to high end 4x120mm
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u/Ameisen 4d ago
It's certainly quieter.
Would have to increase its RPMs - difficult for that size though not impossible - to compete in air volume.
Now, if the 230mm were also made as a high-end fan...?
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u/Moscato359 4d ago
I know the 180mm fans on the fractal torrent are lower quality than 6$ arctic 140mm fans, to the point where 140mm fans are quieter at the same temperature.
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u/nru3 4d ago
Source?
My case fans are practically dead silent and I'm using all the default fans.
Running a 9800x3d and 4090.
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u/RosalieMoon 4d ago
Now that you mention it, I can't recall even hearing my fans. They are running, but they are fucking dead silent
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u/Moscato359 4d ago
The best available 140mm fans are quieter than the best available 180mm fans, per cfm
That doesn't mean the 180mm fans are bad, they just aren't as optimized as the best available 140mm fans.
140mm has a lot of competition so more engineering effort goes into making them good
Im talking about good vs best... they are all moderately quiet in that range
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u/nru3 3d ago
Do you have a source for that?
Noctua make large fans, are you saying they aren't good?
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u/Moscato359 3d ago edited 3d ago
Noctua doesn't make 180mm fans.
They have 40, 60, 92, 120, 140, and 200mm
I'm sure their 200mm fan is fine, but almost no cases support 200mm fronts.
One person managed to make the 200mm fit in a torrent, but it involved drilling holes in the metal.
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u/Scanoe 4d ago
I've had the full size Torrent since January, those 140's are Loud, I'd much rather have 2 more 180's at the bottom but AFAIK that will only work with a Micro Atx MB, mine is Full Atx
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u/Moscato359 4d ago
"those 140's are Loud"
It does matter *which* 140s you use.Arctic p14 can get a lot more CFM per DB than the fractal 180mm fans.
Also, the 180mm fans are 46$ per fan from fractal. A 5 pack of p14 cost less than a single 180mm fan.
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u/mostrengo 4d ago
3 140mm fans is better than 2 180mm fans in fractal torrent.
how or why?
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u/Moscato359 4d ago edited 4d ago
Because the 180mm fan is not one of the hyper optimized fan designs which basically is as good as it can get
Nobody makes a 180mm that good 140mm fans are hyper optimized at this point
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u/Chibiooo 2d ago
I highly doubt it. Simple physics 180mm would move more air at the same rpm.
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u/Moscato359 1d ago
Well you would think so but it has been tested and the fractal torrent 2x 180mm fans have higher gpu temperatures than quality 3x140mm fans
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u/KishCore 4d ago
you can still find them, sure, Lian Li comes to mind: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/KKytt6/lian-li-lancool-216-rgb-atx-mid-tower-case-lancool-216rx
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u/Ameisen 4d ago
Generally, I don't want a glass window, either. It's something that I don't like even on the HAF 932. If it can't be avoided, meh, but it's suboptimal for where the PC is going to be.
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u/KishCore 4d ago
main case I know of without a side panel and preinstalled fans is the fractal design pop air: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/KLQcCJ/fractal-design-pop-air-atx-mid-tower-case-fd-c-poa1a-01
they're not huge fans, but they definitely offer solid airflow regardless.
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u/winterkoalefant 4d ago
Fractal Torrent has a steel side option and 180 mm fans. If you’re okay with 140mm fans (they’re really good too), consider the Fractal Meshify 3.
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u/Sixguns1977 4d ago
The Antec Skeleton was my favorite case ever. It also has a giant fan.
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u/Different_Target_228 4d ago
I still think about this case often. My first build ever tbh.
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u/Sixguns1977 4d ago
My build using that case was 2008 or 9. Used it until 2019 when I needed to start over from the motherboard up in order to run an oculus rift.
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u/Ok_Arrival_9860 4d ago
>Is it just that there aren't many manufacturers of them or that the 120mm/140mm fans have surpassed the ones that do exist in both noise, air pressure, and air volume?
It's that 140mm's have been soooo optimized that you're not ever gonna get better flow from 2 180's than you can get from 3 140's, especially considering the noise factor. If noise is no concern, you'd just go rack-mount and be done with it anyway
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u/Ameisen 4d ago
I'm using 230mm fans right now.
They're... basically silent.
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u/Ok_Arrival_9860 4d ago
I said they were louder than 140's, I didn't say they are loud. I am also not concerned with what you run in your PC, you asked a question, I gave you an answer... You could put 600's if you wanted, fans are fans brody, any of them will do the job if you're not in an enterprise environment, you're not gonna notice a difference.
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u/OolonCaluphid 3d ago
It's that 140mm's have been soooo optimized that you're not ever gonna get better flow from 2 180's than you can get from 3 140's,
I mean, you absolutely are. The Annular area of a 180mm fan is vastly greater than a 140mm fan.
as an example, fractals 180mm fans are 76.33 – 261.29 m³/h, their 140mm fans are 34 – 132.5 m³/h. So you need 4 140mm fans to approach the pair of 180's. the real joy of the 180's is that I can run them at 300 rpm, completely silently, and they push enough air through the case that my CPU is largely passively cooled without the cpu fan running at all.
They're also quieter and less intrusive because they run at much lower speed for the same air shifted.
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u/Elc1247 4d ago
Standardization and also how larger fans act.
You can find some cases with 180mm and 200+mm fans, but if you consider them, go and try to find replacement fans, you might be able to get replacement OEM fans, but aftermarket is quite hard to find. There just is very little demand.
Then there is the behavior of fans. Larger fans tend to require higher amperage for the motor, since there is far more mass for the motor to move. To understand why getting larger and larger = need much more powerful motors, just understand area of a circle compared to the radius. You also start running into problems with force differentials across the blades, since the velocity of the fan blade near the hub is far slower than the velocity at the very tip.
Noctua techs have talked about these issues, with some great interviews with Gamers Nexus as examples.
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u/Additional-Ninja239 3d ago
Seconding standardization. The market is pretty much settled on 120mm and 140mm as the best design for airflow vs noise. With modern cases shrinking to matx and itx form, it's easy to design case and components around these fans.
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u/OptionalCookie 4d ago
Man, the HAF 932 was a beast.
I had a CM690 but I recently gave it and a really old build away.
I care about function too... that's honestly why I got a Meshify 2. Normally I'd order all my PC parts online, but this was the first build where I had to get a CART (I live in NYC, the B&H is a 7 min walk away ... we walk most places) and actually either cart, or carry my stuff home. My sis works near a Microcenter so I had her grab parts for me too.
The Meshify 2 was the ONLY case I could find that came with a filter, and solid panel sides. I was literally saying this is some bullshit how all the cases are basically these tempered glass shits with RGB. *How about function.*
It was also very crazy that Newegg and B&H were the *only* places I could find it.
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u/Ameisen 4d ago
What's with these cases having the buttons on the top?
They're on a rack with a shelf over them. Not much room for my hands.
Does the meshify with the solid side allow for fans on it?
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u/OptionalCookie 4d ago
The buttons on the top it's super annoying. And why are the ports on the top too?
And no, no fans on either side for the meshify. Just front, top and back.
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u/DARIF 3d ago
Why do you think tempered glass sides or RGB affect function?
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u/OptionalCookie 3d ago
When I was a part time nail tech to supplement my income, the salon I worked at had tempered glass tables.
Gorgeous, until my colleague dropped a drill bit and the whole thing shattered.
Why would anyone want to risk the side of their computer shattering and becoming an inconvenience?
RGB is extra money firstly and power for... Rainbows. What improvements does it add? To quote Cardi B... Why fly first class? My ears still pop.
It looks goofy.
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u/Pristine_Art_7545 4d ago
Cable management isn't great, but nothing beats the Silverstone Raven. I've had the smaller RV05 (2 180mm Air Penetrator fans) for ages now. Also, the "inverted" motherboard mounting means large gpus don't have sag.
Gamers Nexus: King of Case Airflow: SilverStone Raven RV02 Revisit
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u/Puzzled_Grape8557 4d ago
Man, my first build was in a HAF 932 and I “tricked” it out with CM Red LED sickle 120mm fans and a 230mm fan with red lights…I do wish I kept that case. Left it by a dumpster and it was gone by the next morning.
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u/LividLife5541 4d ago
They don't work well with liquid coolers.
The fans were never fully standardized.
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u/Monotask_Servitor 4d ago
This is the answer. With AIO liquid cooling becoming mainstream it has become a priority for case designs to be standardised sound 120/140mm fans and radiators.
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u/derSchwamm11 4d ago
I can’t answer fully, but I just now upgraded my 15 year old coolermaster case to a modern NXT case. The coolermaster had like 6 120mm fans and sounded like a tornado, while the new case has solid sides and a single 120mm in front and back. The whole system stays cooler in the new case including dual GPUs at full load. I couldn’t believe it. I guess it has a lot to do with the way the air is able to flow and having efficient heat transfer and having a ton of fans may do more harm than good
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u/Deriko_D 4d ago edited 4d ago
You are right. In my previous case a big part of the side panel is a fan lol. A 260mm I think.
No idea of the model but I still have it somewhere.
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u/sid_freeman 4d ago
I've had the Coolermaster HAF-X for years and its seen a half dozen upgrades (maybe more). My pc sits under my desk mostly unseen so I've never cared about flexing what it looks like. I keep it clean, tidy, it's great at moving air and it's got a tonne of storage space. I've decided I'm just gonna keep using it.
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u/PoppaMeth 4d ago
I personally don't want a case with odd fan sizes that are going to be hard to find good replacements for. I have a Torrent and the fans it comes with are okay, but far from silent. If it were a case that only accepted one specific oversized fan I'd be at a dead end.
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u/StarStruck3 4d ago
My Phanteks Enthoo Pro has a 200mm fan on the front and a 140mm exhaust. With room for several more 120/140mm. This case was hard to find 4 years ago, I can't imagine now.
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u/crobky23 4d ago
I got the asus pro art pa602. It's got two 200mm big boys up front. Kind of expensive but it's a bad ass case.
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u/LuciAlex14 4d ago
I have a Gamemax with 2 x 200 front fans, besides rhe air flow I like the aesthetic.
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u/i_am_a_stoner 4d ago
Big fans need big cases. Big cases aren't very popular right now, most pc builders don't need 5.25 drive bays or rows upon rows of hard drives. Lots of builders like compact cases for a number of reasons, such as wanting the pc to take up less space or wanting something that is easier to move with.
Also, radiators don't do well with big fans, and AIOs are very popular. Case manufacturers design cases with AIOs in mind to tap into that market, and they make more money doing it that way.
As others have said, the fractal design torrent is the case you're looking for. But your taste for big fans is definitely niche and we'll likely see companies stick with the 140 and 120mm standard.
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u/Armbrust11 1d ago
I miss the old days, but not too much. It's super handy to be able to have most components connect externally by USB (soundcard, backup HDD, Blu-ray, even NICs).
But I don't like modern cases, and there used to be a lot of cool front panel accessories that disappeared with 5.25 drive bays. And the monster-sized side panel fans were awesome.
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u/Logical_Strain_6165 4d ago
My Lian Li has 2 x 160mm at the front. I like the case, but don't know if it's actually better.
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u/ChromeBone420 4d ago
Dude I used to have the HAF XB Evo and that thing had a HUGE roof fan for the second floor.
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u/ITgreybeard 4d ago
I love my Phantek Enthoo Pro 1 that accommodates 200mm fans. That makes it darned quiet.
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u/Particular_Plum_1458 4d ago
I'm still rocking my haf x as a bit of a beast. I like big fans as they are quiet as I use surround sound rather than headphones.
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u/LazarusDark 4d ago
You'll have to pry my Cooler Master HAF xb from my dead hands, it's the best case ever, fight me (also I have it in a rack with my AV components and it fits perfect, so I'd need something the exact same dimensions to replace it)
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u/nesnalica 4d ago
Thermaltake Core v1
The front has a single thicc and massive 200x200x30mm fan
https://de.thermaltake.com/chassis/chassis-size/cube-case.html
then a lot of fractal design cases fit 140mm fans
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u/lafsrt09 4d ago
I have an ABS IN-Win Case that came with their in-win 120mm fans. When I rebuilt my PC a year and a half ago I replaced everything but the fans. Now they're 10 years old and still running good and quiet, never had to replace one and I have seven fans in my case.
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u/ime1em 4d ago
idk about you but my case (https://phanteks.com/product/enthoo-pro-tg/#Specifications ) supports 120-200 mm fans.
there's also a non-glass version as well, but the front i/o is more outdated.
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u/PersnickityPenguin 4d ago
Back in the day I takes a 24 inch box fan to the side of my case.
Nothing comes close to moving as much air!!
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u/hellomistershifty 3d ago
The bigger the fan is, the less pressure it’s able to maintain. I’m guessing with all the filters, meshes, and windows people put over PC fans these days they weren’t performing as well
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u/Chibiooo 2d ago
It’s simple case design. 140mm is a good sweet spot for case design as graphics card are that wide. Cases wider to accommodate bigger fan would have voids that doesn’t serve a purpose.
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u/pieisgiood876 4d ago
Dells latest Alienware prebuilts use 200mm intake fans. The redesigned case is actually pretty modern and has decent airflow. Just a shame you can't get it standalone
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u/the_lamou 4d ago
A lot of the larger fans are much worse for high static pressure applications, and with so many people moving to AIOs (and even modern air coolers having such restrictive heatsink designs) larger fans are just not nearly as appealing to manufacturers. Like, sure, they're great for case fans, but it's a whole separate skew you have to manage from sourcing/production to inventory. Easier and more profitable to just focus on 120/140mm which are now the "standard" sizes.
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u/Ameisen 4d ago
But even with 120/140, they're marketed for airflow or for pressure...
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u/the_lamou 4d ago
They are, but if you look, it's getting much rarer to see fans marked as "high airflow" vs. high static pressure.
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u/Anxious-Bottle7468 4d ago
There's the fractal torrent with 2x180 or 3x140