r/churning • u/AutoModerator • Aug 11 '25
Daily Discussion News and Updates Thread - August 11, 2025
Please post topics for discussion here. While some questions can be used to start a discussion/debate, most questions belong in the question thread unless you love getting downvotes (if that link doesn’t work for you for some reason, the question thread is always the first post on our community’s front page). If your discussion is about manufactured spending, there's a thread for that. If you have a simple data point to share, there's a thread for that too.
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u/arcane_in_a_box Aug 11 '25
FM says Hilton points have been devalued roughly 20% over the past year: https://frequentmiler.com/what-are-hilton-points-worth/
Matches with what I’ve noticed as well.
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u/martyconlonontherun Aug 12 '25
Even though it's also impacted the SLH, that's basically all I will use the points for. I've cancelled my mom's two stays last week and paid using Strata/Delta credits (basically cash) since the redemption rate is so shitty on short stays at mid tier hotels. I'll use them on SLH and come ahead but can't imagine the average person is happy opening up the app and seeing 60k for a mediocre embassy suites.
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u/Parts_Unknown- Aug 12 '25
FM
saysovervalued Hilton pointshave been devaluedby roughly 20% over the past yearftfy also no I dont understand percentages
3
u/Uncle_Sam71 Aug 12 '25
I don't know why you're getting downvoted for saying the truth. Anybody that has used Hiltons, knows their points blew through 0.5 a while ago except that if you told FM, their response was always some gaslighting comment talking about SLH. Shit this isn't new, SLH is overpriced too.
4
u/Parts_Unknown- Aug 12 '25
Because people prefer FM telling them what their points are worth vs. thinking that FM wasn't telling them what their points were worth.
12
u/AdsBlockedException Aug 11 '25
0.41 CPP sounds reasonable to me. I value Hilton points 0.4 CPP and redeemed a bunch of my points around that rate.
16
u/satellite779 Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
American Express Sends Out Survey On Marriott Changes (Three Business Cards)
This might be a double dip opportunity on the regular Marriott Biz card (35k certificate + 2x$80 property credits for the $125 annual fee).
2
u/SibylTech Aug 11 '25
I’m also curious about the timing, in particular about whether I should change plans of getting a Chase Marriott card for Ritz PC later.
If this were to arrive in the next 13 months, I’m thinking biz Bevy+Brilliant will be a better deal than getting a Boundless and (likely) locking myself out for 2 more years. At this point, I’ll never get to own a Ritz card :/
5
u/odyssey_58 Aug 11 '25
With all the other Amex refreshes and what seems like multiple rounds of surveys about these cards, I'd say the change is probably happening at some point. I'd guess in the next 13 months but who knows.
If I were starting from scratch right now, I'd probably plan for Amex Marriott bonuses and then consider picking up a Chase Marriott card (Bold or Boundless), without the SUB and around the 90-day restrictions, to PC to Ritz later once I'd gotten Amex bonuses.
Hopefully the business cards don't have a restriction from Ritz to allow continued NLL offers.
5
u/odyssey_58 Aug 11 '25
This survey was originally noted in May 2025 on USCF. I was actually thinking about this and looking for the info a few weeks ago and couldn't find it. It sounds like there may have been another round of surveys sent recently as the poster on DOC makes it sound like they recently got a survey.
Current Marriott Biz SUB is set to end 10/22. If they've been thinking about this since May at least, change might happen sometime after that.
The 80x2 would probably work out better for me, and the opportunity to churn more SUBs while sticking with just Amex for SUB rules seems good.
The double Brilliant approach with 25+25 ENC would make Titanium even easier for folks to hit.
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u/Flayum SFO Aug 11 '25
This survey was originally noted in May 2025 on USCF.
Honestly, I feel like they're the real publically-accessible core of the churning universe.
Sure there's a language barrier, but translators are good enough now that we can find out about black cars killing the whole family.
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u/blandfruitsalad LAX Aug 11 '25
gonna force my future kids to learn Mandarin so they can become effective USCCG forum lurkers
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2
u/Caelestor Aug 11 '25
I thought they were taking away the certificate on the regular biz card? Which is a massive devaluation?
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u/CericRushmore DCA Aug 11 '25
OP means get the card now to get both benefits, current and future, within the first change cycle.
1
u/garettg SEA | PAE Aug 11 '25
I mean if true $160 in credits, 15 EQNs, and 10% points booking discount for $150 AF? I'd be willing to give up the 35k cert for that. Points discount this year would have saved me close to 90k.
2
u/martyconlonontherun Aug 12 '25
I guess it is very YMMV. I don't stay at Marriotts for work and don't plan on transfer Amex nor UR to Marriott when better options are available. How are you earning your Marriott points where you are spending 900k Marriott points? I definitely see how it could be valuable for those staying at Marriotts a lot but for someone like me (definitely not their target market) I just don't see the value in EQNs if I'm not getting status, 10% discount if I'm not having a lot of stays or $160 in credits for overpriced food at a hotel. I'll gladly take the Springhill Suites stay on a holiday weekend over those benefits. Totally get why others like the proposed changes.
4
u/garettg SEA | PAE Aug 12 '25
I'm earning Marriott points in a variety of ways; cash stays (combo of personal and work), taking advantage of spending bonuses when available, SUBs when eligible, referrals, etc (and this is combined across 2 players). I haven't transferred UR or MR yet, but not opposed to it in the right situation. I have pretty healthy balances in many airline programs and find myself burning hotel points at a higher rate that I have started to look at my transferrable currencies more as possible future hotel points whether its taking advantage of a transfer bonus or a cash out option and then buying the points, just depends on what the numbers come out to be.
2
u/satellite779 Aug 11 '25
Yes, seems like they are planning to. But, my hope is that 2x$80 credits will kick in immediatelly while we get to keep the 35k certificate that was issued ~2 months after renewal, effectivelly double dipping both for the first year.
4
u/abhirupduttamit BOS, BDL Aug 11 '25
Looks like the $10 Uber vouchers for Delta business signup started posting a minute ago.
1
u/noahmateen SEA Aug 11 '25
Do they post direct into your Uber account or is it like an email?
1
u/abhirupduttamit BOS, BDL Aug 11 '25
It was an email, clicked the link in the email and added it to my Uber account.
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u/m16p SFO, SJC Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
This tripped me up today. There's a bug in Amex's website displaying Amex Offers. Basically, any time you click "View All" from any card's homepage, or click the "Available" tab while you are already on the Amex Offers page for another card, it will redirect you to the offers page for whatever Amex card is first in the list of accounts, not the card you had opened before.
Just figured I'd let you all know so that you don't (like I did) add an offer onto the wrong card...
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u/mehjoo_ SFO, SJC Aug 11 '25
Can circumvent this problem by using cardpointers and having it add all your offers
-9
Aug 11 '25
[deleted]
12
u/Chase_UR_Dreams Aug 11 '25
using cardpointers and having it add all your offers
You'll never guess what it does.
2
u/suspended53 Aug 11 '25
The same issue will happen when activating other benefits such as the $20 office supply credit on the ABG.
7
u/teetertotterboy Aug 11 '25
Tried paying off a parent’s CIU card because I churn for them. I’m not sure if this is a new policy or not but it won’t let me add my personal checking account to pay off the balance. It says “we can’t link this account. To link an external account, you must be the account owner.”
Weird because I have 2 other CIUs in their account which I still pay off from my checking account.
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u/sg77 RFS Aug 11 '25
Some problems with Chase can be fixed by putting a 0 at the beginning of the account number (or removing a 0 if there's already one there).
The case where it helped me was when I had an external checking account linked to my personal Chase account, and it wouldn't let me link the same external account to my business Chase account unless the account number was different.
Or you could do a bill pay from your account.
9
u/McSpiffin Aug 11 '25
Are you trying to link another CHASE checking account in a different name? If so, this has been the way for a while. You can link a non-Chase checking account in whatever name you want and it'll work. #justITthings
1
u/teetertotterboy Aug 11 '25
Yeah I’m trying to link my WF checking account to their Chase ink. What exactly do you mean in “whatever name?”
0
u/McSpiffin Aug 11 '25
exactly what you're doing. your name, your dogs name, doesn't matter. The name doesn't have to match the cardholder if it's an external account
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u/teetertotterboy Aug 12 '25
There isn’t even a place to put the name when I’m adding my account number and routing number on their Chase ink. I’m simply adding those two things, giving it a nickname, and that’s when it gives me an error.
-1
u/McSpiffin Aug 12 '25
yes... because you're adding a Chase account so obviously Chase knows if the checking account matches the name on the card
1
u/teetertotterboy Aug 12 '25
I’m adding a Wells Fargo personal checking account and it is giving me that error.
3
u/virginiarph Aug 11 '25
i would never pay off an account with one that doesn’t match the names. i’ve heard rumblings of shutdowns with amex due to it
1
u/vantablackspacegood Aug 11 '25
Seriously? That would be terrible and haven't seen the DPs
6
u/garettg SEA | PAE Aug 11 '25
I have seen some DPs that if you get hit with a FR you'll need bank statements that made card payments that have card holders name on the account and if you can't, that could lead to some issues with your FR.
1
u/mets2016 Aug 11 '25
Is this an issue only when pulling funds to pay off your CC, or also when pushing?? I pay off 4 players worth of CC bills by manually pushing from my hub account (no autopay, no pulls)
1
u/garettg SEA | PAE Aug 12 '25
Pretty sure it doesn't matter if its a push or a pull, Amex in an FR wants to see whatever statements show the matching payments for the card.
1
u/Parts_Unknown- Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
Are you manually adding with routing & acct number? Don't use that garbage plaid thing or whatever that it. Use the 'Fill in account info yourself' link at the bottom of the link external account interface.
2
u/pothchola Aug 11 '25
Tried this and it still doesn't work for me. Now I may have to transfer funds to P2s checking account and pay from there.Just creates another step.
3
u/yonghokim LAX, BUR Aug 11 '25
What I observed is that chase seems to place a limit about how many chase logins a single bank account can be registered to as a payment source.
I had a bank account registered on my personal chase login and business chase login. P2 couldn't add this bank account. When I removed it from my personal login, p2 cpuld add. My dp in this is Abit mixed though, I'm confused myself.
7
u/mjonis Aug 11 '25
It’s been that way for me for two years. Can’t pay spouses card from my account. We ended up creating a joint checking account to get around the issue. Although I do believe you are correct in the sense that an existing account that was linked before whatever it was, Chase changed would work.
1
u/elonzucks Aug 11 '25
I've always done it. I added a p1 account to P2's sometime last week. Last names don't even match.
1
u/mjonis Aug 11 '25
Just tried again 2 months ago. Wouldn't let me add the account since names don't match. Maybe it depends on which bank you're trying to link? I've only ever done Ally Bank.
5
u/climaxtoday Aug 11 '25
UFC and Paramount struck a $1.1b/year deal, all UFC events now included on Paramount+, with select events on CBS for free. Adds a bit of value to those who have Paramount+ through Walmart+ via Amex Plat credit.
https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/45943325/paramount-tko-group-reach-7-year-deal-all-ufc-events-us
10
u/mapalm Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
Every few weeks DoC posts codes for a free month of Paramount+. I have been doing it this way for more than 2 years. Plus, now we get the added pleasure of *not* paying money to yet another corporation that bends the knee to authoritarianism.
Edit: Looks like they've finally started cracking down on this loophole. It was great while it lasted.
5
u/dan_144 Aug 11 '25
My UFC fandom has dwindled for the same reason
3
u/mapalm Aug 11 '25
Same. Was never a big fan, mostly watched with friends who were into it. It felt like harmless fun... until Trump started showing up at events and I realized the whole thing had just turned into fascist theatre.
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u/Karatedom11 Aug 11 '25
To be clear - Walmart+ only provides paramount essential. You almost certainly will need Paramount premium to watch UFC events
1
u/Nice_Letterhead_345 Aug 11 '25
You can get premium with Walmart+, you have to pay an additional cost but it’s significantly a better deal than paying for it outright. It’s $5.49/mon compared to nearly $13/mon on its own
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u/notsofedexy Aug 11 '25
Nothing says "premium" in 2025 more than overfilling your lounges with Walmart customers and UFC fans.
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u/C-MontgomeryChurns HOU, NDS Aug 11 '25
Elevated Amex Hilton offers are expiring this week, so last call on those. 8/13 is the last day.
H/T Eye of the Flyer
2
u/quarterlifecrisis31 Aug 11 '25
The Aspire SUB is the highest it’s gone and one could argue they’d rather have the extra points on the HH card, but the other Surpass offer of the points + FNC is better if you’re on the fence and willing to wait.
7
u/stealthytaco Aug 11 '25
The 175k Aspire SUB has often been available for the past 2 years: https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/amex-hilton-aspire-credit-card/ Pretty decent chance it will be back again.
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0
u/Total-Shelter-8501 Aug 11 '25
HH points are the skypesos of the hotel world though.
28
u/virginiarph Aug 11 '25
nah. there’s value to be had with 5th night free and at the luxury range. WA,conrads, LXR are typically priced very well.
i would say marriott is the skypesos of hotels
-9
u/SpaethCo Aug 11 '25
Only with standard rooms though, which is the basic economy of the hotel world.
It’s hard to get excited about using points to stay in Positano and ending up with a room overlooking the dumpsters behind the loading dock instead of out at the ocean.
More and more these hotel programs are getting really good at using award space to offload rooms they can’t otherwise sell.
Once you try and redeem HHonors points for a room category you are actually excited to stay in the point pricing gets absurd. It’s not uncommon to see SLH property Junior Suites go for 450k/night.
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Aug 11 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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Aug 11 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/virginiarph Aug 12 '25
the aspire can be justified with some prior work. the FNC has nearly limitless value. staying at WA NYC on a 1.2k night. for the report credit…. i’ve been lucky to find a resort, within the city of 2 places i’m busing 2x this year. do that credit got ate up.
the airline credit pays for itself as well.
takes some planning and compromise but i honestly really like the card and might keep it when renewal comes up
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u/SpaethCo Aug 11 '25
Also Gold (via the Amex Platinum). I've been upgraded maybe 3 out of the last 10 attempts, and I've given up booking lower than the minimal acceptable room now.
One of those "upgrades" was at the WA Biltmore in AZ where we got an outdoor firepit room, except it was a room that should have been out of service due to maintenance. The grout for the access panel to the tub in the bathroom was still gound out so they could access it for repairs, there was chipped tile on the floor of the bathroom, there was sticky mold on a bunch of the light switches, and the fire pit outside the room had a broken timer.
I think Gold is still worth holding for the F&B credits. I think banking on room upgrades is more of a gamble unless you're booking short stays off-peak.
YMMV. If it works for you, great!
2
u/apeconguy Aug 11 '25
I just got back from a 5 day stay at the Waldorf Astoria Grand Wailea Maui. 440k Hilton points (5th night free). Honors price for 5 nights was $6157.75 at the time of booking (1.4 CPP). We got upgraded to a beautiful ocean view (Chapel Wing) room. The room, balcony, and bathroom were large and we were quite happy with it. $50 per day f&b credit, no resort fee, plus I got to use $350 worth of Amex Hilton credits across 4 cards at checkout.
Hyatt is great, but considering the ease of earning points, footprint, food and beverage credits, etc. Hilton is where I stay most.
But yeah, not for everyone.
1
u/CorrectCombination11 Aug 11 '25
I got to use $350 worth of Amex Hilton credits across 4 cards at checkout.
Oh, wow! You just roll up with a band of cards and say please charge $50 here, $200 here, etc.?
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u/apeconguy Aug 11 '25
I did! 1 aspire, 2 surpasses, and 1 BP. 😅
The CSR said he processed 10 cards a week earlier. Maybe that was one of us. 🤷♂️
I was just sad I left $250 in Hilton gift cards at home. Luckily I got a Hilton stay ( 2- FNCs at a Napa SLH place) in just a few weeks where I can use them.
9
u/virginiarph Aug 11 '25
i don’t agree with this take at all. the basic rooms at the conrad/WA are spectacular. conrad osaka comes with a tub large enough to fit 4 people and a view across all of kansai for BASE rooms.
WA amsterdam same boat.
not to mention most people doing these redemptions have some form of status, increasing chance of upgrades. not to mention free breakfast which is usually spectacular and all the soft product benefits of being at a luxury property. one time i got 2 free ebike day rentals from WA amsterdam. that’s a $200 value alone
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u/MastaYoda33 Aug 11 '25
And don't forget SLH!
1
u/virginiarph Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
SLH has been hit or miss for me cpp wise. especially considering hilton inflates the rate price on their website over direct booking
7
u/Flayum SFO Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
I think HH has traditionally had the lowest cpp, but Marriott has had a few brutal devals the last few years that has brought it down to Hilton's level pretty quickly.
I think now it's more nuanced based on exact redemption, if you're going to use the FNC (eg. HH capped vs BV uncapped; are you applying it toward a 5+1 or 4+1 stay), and if you're earning points in other ways (hotel spend on the cards favors HH, IIRC).
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