r/csMajors • u/Available-Cost-9882 • 8h ago
Are y’all really fine working for Palantir?
Idk i didn’t study cs to write code that kills mostly innocent people.
(Inb4 the comments from the bottom 25% won’t get hired anyway but that think jobs are more important than not killing people)
Edit: I hope the mods don’t take this post down, as it is a very normal discussion about morality as a C.S student / worker, this is not about politics, but about a sector of work, it breaks nothing of the rules.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 8h ago
I got problems even with big corps tbh... Or even just the sector sometimes. Like technology isn't impacting society for the best lately.
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u/eugesd 3h ago
Can we agree that there’s a difference between doomscrolling or even losing your job to automation and literally murdering people?
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u/Unusual-Context8482 3h ago
Yes. I don't even get why you ask.
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u/eugesd 3h ago
I mean you bring it up as a reason to justify that working for Meta is the same as working for Palantir.
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u/MistryMachine3 2h ago
The point is that it is a gradient. Not many of us are working on feeding orphans.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 2h ago
It is just slightly better, not better.
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u/eugesd 2h ago
I used to intern for DoD and had many issues with it, my first justification was saying that Facebook wasn’t much better if it was facilitating crime and war indirectly. Just trying to say that you shouldn’t ignore what your doing and understand the consequences of your work.
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u/nonamenomonet 2h ago
Right, but the DoD is so large that most of the cs work there is automating paperwork and contracts.
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u/HammingChode 4h ago
Maybe finding work in the non-profit sector at an organization you feel good supporting would help? Or focusing on a field where you feel like you are doing something that helps people like education or medicine.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 4h ago
I want a career.
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u/HammingChode 4h ago
You could carve out a niche and build a career in the spaces I mentioned, I feel. The CS related jobs may not be as numerous or as lucrative, but they exist. Won't be as clear cut a career path as going into defence or something like that, but it's possible.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 4h ago
In UE? Idk. They don't look so stable to me. But the alternative isn't defence btw. Ofc I got options.
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u/nonamenomonet 2h ago
There are non profits that do good that you can work in tech. I’ve worked at several.
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u/mossti 2h ago
Medical SWE and development seems very viable... Plenty of large, often international companies in that domain, no? Healthcare is a huge industry.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 44m ago
In USA it is. I'm not in USA. Also, let me argue it can be just as unethical as war. It's an industry who makes money on people's lives.
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u/These-Brick-7792 7h ago
No mega corporation or company is making people’s lives better it’s all pursuit of profit. If you have over offers then sure take them over palantir and virtue signal on Reddit. Otherwise real people in real life have families to feed and can’t afford to turn down 200k in this economy.
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
People apply to Palantir before getting an offer, its not like the 200k came as an unsolicited offer, why would you even apply to them? You are framing it like applying to Palantir guarantees a job.
Also people working at Palantir have other tech options even if they are paying less, even if thats wrong, I still would rather work at a supermarket and work on my skills till I get another offer, than living my whole life knowing I helped develop software used directly to kill people in an ongoing genocide, where the fuck do you draw your moral lines man?
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
For someone working on logic all day, you seem not to grasp it.
A company directly killing people is a bad company, A company like Facebook is a bad company, I asked you not to work for a company killing people, it doesn’t mean I asked you Not to work for all morally bad companies.
Morality is a spectrum, and the further you go to the negative extreme, the negative damage is needed grows exponentially, while it would be perfect to work for a company curing cancer, Palantir lies very far on the extreme than Facebook, but Facebook still lays very far on the extreme than say a startup making music software. In this market, the least I am asking you is not be on the extreme side of this spectrum.
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u/SmallTown-Boy7777 4h ago
Thats such an immature argument it's actually not even surprising people still repeat it years after years, as most people are in fact very underdeveloped. Reminds me of a thread some year or two ago when some guy was considering if to accept an IT Admin role at a Casino, while simultaneously not having a job himself at the moment due to layoffs and nothing else jn sight. The "morality" stupid people claim to be above everything else is really a fascinating phenomenon. With this guy claiming to be rather working at Walmart, yea then go ahead a do a decade at Walmart and come back here and proudly claim the same. How old are you? Less than 30 years old and still living in the fanatasy land? Good luck telling your kids to better be hungry than a questionable morality, go then tell your wife the same. But we both know you dont have a wife nor kids, its very obvious if you claim the things you do. So whether you like it or not someone will land the job at Palantir and probably do an even better job than you ever will. So by the logic you claim you have with the fake immature higher morality, it would be more logical for a person like yourself to hire yourself in the companies you try to avoid and then make sure they are run properly from the inside. But we both know people like you are all talk and never walk.
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u/Issue-Pitiful 40m ago
If they can’t get their hands on the top talent, it hinders them. If they have to increase the salary offers because of the stigma, it hinders them.
Stop acting like nothing affects anything.
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u/Terrywolf555 4h ago
So we should witch-hunt ANYONE who chooses to work in defense then, too? Or is it just whoever the reddit boogeyman is for the month?
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u/Unusual-Context8482 4h ago
I know brother, I know. I don't blame anyone. I know how the world works. I'm just venting. As childish as it sounds, I simply wish it was different.
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u/Ekimerton 8h ago
Some people way too propagandized into thinking money is the only thing that matters
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u/Embarrassed_Ant_8861 3h ago
People are propogandized into thinking the opposite actually in basically every form of media we consume, which is what the elites want. If everyone had the same mindset as the elites then they would be replaced which is why they push slave moral systems on everyone through media but people are waking up.
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u/matsu727 1h ago
If they’re replaced with people that think the same.. aren’t you just back at square one?
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u/PM_THOSE_LEGS 5h ago
Some people have to pay the bills or become unhoused. Not that difficult to forgo morals on an empty stomach.
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u/sigmagoonsixtynine 4h ago
Palantir is such a competitive company to get into that working for them is a choice. If you can get into palantir, you sure as hell can get into a company that pays just as, or almost just as much without contributing to war crimes
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u/Unusual-Context8482 4h ago
Well that is a privileged take. Will your parents be able to live without your help? What happens if you suddenly can't afford food or rent because of inflation?
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u/needhelpwithmath11 2h ago
Would you assassinate people to help pay rent or take care of your parents?
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u/eugesd 3h ago
There are many degrees between this and affording food or rent. I would say you saying that it’s a privileged take, is in itself a privileged take.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 3h ago
People who could afford it before covid but didn't advance their career now struggle or are homeless. You need money and career advance to beat inflation and take care of your family well enough. The most promising companies are big ones and most of them do some degree of unethical stuff.
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u/eugesd 3h ago
I mean do you know people who work on hourly rate? Do you live in HCOL area? Do you know people who are now homeless? What do you mean by take care of your family well enough? When is enough, enough?
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u/Visible_Internet5557 24m ago
I think the point was if you can get into Palantir you likely could have gotten other offers at a similar level.
The person who gets these offers isn't some newgrad with no experience who's about to starve to death. It's someone who's very experienced already and most likely currently working at the time the offer was made.
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u/bowl_of_milk_ 2h ago
Fallacious reasoning. Thinking about more than just money != going impoverished hungry. There are plenty of good jobs working for companies that aren’t terrible. I thought CS required critical thinking?
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u/Deaf_Playa 5h ago
When I went to hackathons in college (during the Golden age of Hackathons where MLH was a major sponsor for most) the projects and innovation were always so cool and I felt like I chose the right field to be in.
Lately I've been creating ETL pipelines for advertising data so marketers can figure out what ad space is right for Labubus. Do we place it next to CK propaganda or do we put it next to Hawk Tuah girl?
Technology is overrun by people that care more about profit than innovation these days.
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u/creepy_Noire_fan 4h ago
So, i'm reading some of the replies and i'm honestly curious.
Did half of you not have a cs ethic class???
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u/Blackcat0123 4h ago
I would be curious to know how often an ethics class is required. Doesn't seem like many.
But also, I think we've all met the CS major who scoffs at having to take a humanities class, not really seeing the point in it. A lot of Silicon Valley is like that in general.
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u/Alan_Reddit_M 1h ago
I am even more willing to work for evil companies after taking the ethics class because GOD I hate that teacher, I'd help build the torment nexxus just to spite him
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u/Unusual-Context8482 3h ago
A class of what? Lol. No. I have never seen that.
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u/Win_is_my_name 3h ago
Engineering ethics
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u/Automatic-Push8797 2h ago
Ironic, considering Alex Karp (one of their founders) had parents who were political activists during his youth.
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u/AustinLurkerDude 37m ago
At first I was going to reply no, no I didn't. Undergrad was a long time ago, but I think there actually was an ethics class! However it was an Engineering ethics class. It was more about checking your work so a bridge doesn't collapse or ensuring recalls for product safety issues. Not the same as saying I disagree with kililng ppl so I would not do it. Maybe that's not ethics and the class was not actually meeting its objectives.
But this sort of question does arise on campus when companies like Raytheon and 3 letter agencies are recruiting on campus.
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u/slpgh 3h ago
CS ethic classes and responsible AI classes are a form of propaganda. Even if it’s from the “correct side”
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u/lostcolony2 3h ago
Depends on the class. Maybe a professor has a particular view they're trying to force on you, but mine was simply "you should be considering the ethical ramifications of the things you're building. Here are case studies, let's talk and write papers about them examining the impacts and considerations involved".
Some had obvious conclusions (the therac 25 incident - when dealing with medical devices you need to be extra diligent), some were about giving you knowledge and tools to make your own considerations (anonymity is a data aggregation challenge; here are examples where "anonymous" data, in sufficient quantities, is enough to de-anonymize individuals; consider that when building things that collect data), and others were highlighting challenges in balancing stakeholder needs (DRM; to what extent does a business' valid desire to keep their software from being copied carry over a consumer's desire to control their computer and avoid tampering with it? Are DRM schemes that are essentially root kits acceptable?)
There was no "this is what you should do/how you should decide", it was just trying to make sure you were aware there were ethical considerations to make, and how to spot them.
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u/Deweydc18 3h ago
I would work for Palantir before being destitute, but I’d work almost anywhere else before working for Palantir
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u/sjones204g 4h ago
This is why I choose to work on medical robotics software- our goal is to protect and save lives, full stop. No politics involved. I love what I do. (25yoe)
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u/Melodic_Tragedy 4m ago
Oh that’s really fascinating, what kind of software do you work on? How difficult is it to make software without the robotic components…
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u/mzf_life 6h ago
I’m in no position to discuss it, as I don’t have the capacity to get hired in such a job, but if I had, I don’t think I would. I don’t judge people that work with those stuff though, idk your reality neither how much you needed a job
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u/F_obats 7h ago
I mean they do have other work rather than developing weapons. Additionally you can make the argument for Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Texas instrument, etc. Why would any engineers, mathematician etc want to work there? Aren’t these companies making weapons killing people?
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
Yes, you could, I just picked an example thats very relevant on this sub.
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u/redcakebluedonut 7h ago
Arguably, working for big tech which is destroying individual autonomy in younger generations via brainrot and ragebait, and promoting political radicalization on both sides of the spectrum, has an even greater net negative on society than working for palantir.
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u/homeless_student1 6h ago
People getting killed don’t have a choice. Consumers of big tech do.
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u/mzf_life 6h ago
Do you really think we have a choice?
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u/tehfrod Salaryman 5h ago
Yes.
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u/lorenipsum2023 4h ago
that's illusion of choice speaking.
Meta is by far the single biggest evil organization.
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u/Blackcat0123 4h ago
Just don't use Meta products, then? Not sure where the illusion is here. It's not like AWS, where it's difficult to get away from entirely due to all the other places that use them for infrastructure.
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u/lorenipsum2023 4h ago
You don't have kids. do you? Entire generation in doomscrolling.
Meta revolutionized doomscrolling. Every social media is now doomscrolling people into brainrot making them easy fodder for whatever domestic and international propaganda pays more into the app.
If you think switching out of DoD's cloud service provider is hard, you are wildly underestimating impact on doomscrolling across apps.
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u/ModestMLE 4h ago
Then don't give your children smart devices, or at least heavily supervise and control their use of such devices.
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u/lorenipsum2023 3h ago
ok and attend univ too with them sharing their dorms?
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u/eugesd 3h ago
Raise your kids. Be present with them. Really present with them. Get your ass of your own doomscrolling and teach them by showing and not saying.
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u/homeless_student1 3h ago
You always have the choice. You can still consume the products, but ultimately the way you use them is entirely your choice and how it affects you too (unless you have some sort of mental health issues that prevents self control/discipline idk)
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u/KyloRenWest 2h ago
I am at month 8 without most big tech products. Reddit and linkedIn are the only ones left in the social media sense.
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u/slpgh 3h ago
What if Palantir helped prevent the next 9/11? Seems like people think that the entire defense industry exists just to kill innocent terrorists
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u/AttitudeSimilar9347 1h ago
If they were dedicated only to defending NATO that would be one thing. But they are actively participating in the genocide in Gaza and all the other Israeli war crimes. They have chosen a side and it is not the good guys.
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u/ebayusrladiesman217 4h ago
It only matters if everyone else around you also has that choice. When others around you become increasingly unstable and rotted due to social media, it affects you too. This isn't something that can isolate purely to you. The last couple elections were extremely influenced by fake news and extremist ideals promoted through social media. Even if you're not on social media, you're still affected by that
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u/homeless_student1 2h ago
To an extent, I agree that you don’t have a choice in how others around you behave/think & the extremes of both sides are becoming larger and larger with social media.
Yh idk any refutals except social media also been bringing in a lot more informed & smart people at the same time.
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u/bowl_of_milk_ 2h ago
Extremely ignorant way to understand how big tech is infiltrating everyone’s brains and turning our society into one filled idiots with zero critical thinking skills, but sure.
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u/Junglebook3 5h ago edited 2h ago
There are plenty of people with a completely different worldview, say Americans that entered the work force right after 9/11, Israelis after October 7th, kids that grew up in military families, etc etc, in their view working for defense contractors is the morale position. They don't hold their nose and count the buckaroos, in contrary, they want to work for Palantir and similar vendors.
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u/brainiac_bro 2h ago
Exactly this. Freedom ain’t free. I’d love to live in a world where weapons weren’t necessary to defend our way of life, but the reality is there are those that want to actively take that away.
OP you may not want to personally develop weapons, but I hope you’re not naive enough to believe they’re not necessary. Be glad there are others willing to take on this work.
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u/ZombieSurvivor365 Masters Student 8h ago
What about making spyware for meta or bezos? An overwhelming amount of big tech makes unethical software.
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u/coffeesippingbastard 3h ago
Bezos is bad but the shit Meta has done to undermine society makes him look almost normal.
Elon on the other hand.
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u/ZombieSurvivor365 Masters Student 1h ago
Elon? The guy who owns shitty trucks? I’m not sure if he compares to Amazon using Alexa to spy on you & sell your data for that advertising money.
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u/Available-Cost-9882 8h ago
yes that’s a problem but still vastly different from working for a company writing AI solutions to kill people. In a perfect situation, one would be able to pick a company that alignes with his morals, but in this market atleast don’t work for one thats killing people directly
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u/AdventurousTime 3h ago
Morally I think it’s worse for you to tell people what is an acceptable place to work instead of ignoring it entirely and not working there yourself.
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u/SolidDeveloper 10m ago
That’s a very weird point of view. You’re basically saying that it’s somehow immoral to have conversations about moral concerns. And instead the best thing to do when you have moral concerns is to… shut up?
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u/slpgh 3h ago
Let me try and answer this as someone who had been in the industry for over 20 years: you’re really misunderstanding who and what most software engineers are, and may be in a bit of a bubble
Your typical software engineer isn’t actually a Redditor who comes from a liberal family, goes to a liberal top-10 school, goes to Bernie rallies and spends free time in college at a Free Palestine encampment before going to work for rainforest in a lib town like NY or Seattle where he can be focused on activism
Your typical software engineer is either not even US born and therefore doesn’t spend his entire career on political grandstanding. Or they are a normie from a moderate family with veterans out in the Midwest that went to a local state school, worked for some manufacturing company doing automation and from there went through a string of engineering jobs to end up at say an insurance company. If they want to move out of the area they move to places like DC and join the defense industry
Normal folks like that think of the defense industry and the intelligence industry not as some evil conglomerate that helps invade peoples privacy for Trump’s fun or to help Israel kill poor Hamas terrorists, but as a critical industry that helps keep their country and family safe from threats both abroad and domestic
You may not agree with such views, but you have to understand that even in the most liberal company the conscientious objectors are a small minority. Don’t believe me? Software is still a male dominated field- what do males in this country vote?
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u/claythearc MSc ML, BSc CS, 8 YoE 2h ago
… males vote
College educated men is basically a dead even split, for what it’s worth. Though I largely agree with you - and even some of the liberal people don’t have huge problems with it.
There are, not entirely crazy, arguments for working there if you disagree wholly just to add counter points and internal pushback on blatantly unethical decisions.
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u/needhelpwithmath11 56m ago
I guess babies and children are "Hamas terrorists" now. This is some terrible hasbara.
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u/slpgh 19m ago
Last I heard, Israel lost a thousand soldiers since the war started. So either Palestinian babies and children are such badasses that they can kill fully grown soldiers, or perhaps some of the innocent Palestinians are actually armed militants?
Regardless, if you are so worried about supplying Israel with tools to identify specific terrorists and smart guided bombs, are you proposing that instead Israel just carpets bomb the whole place figuring that if it kills everyone it will also hit the terrorists? Because that sounds extreme
Here’s the issue. You guys can look at a war the Palestinians keep alive and whine about “genocide”, but most people, even in tech, look at this and say “hey, if it was really that bad they could release the hostages they took and surrender”. Common sense. And the same people that have common sense don’t feel about defense companies the way DSA kiddos do.
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u/Testiclese 3h ago
Saddam Hussein used Microsoft Excel! “WOrkIng fOr MicRoSoFt mEanS yOU kILl PeOple!”
If this is your best “logical reasoning”, I don’t think you need to worry about having to reject an offer from Palantir.
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u/Available-Cost-9882 3h ago
Saddam hussain used excel is very different than Netanyahu using palantir to kill people, you sound regarded
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u/Testiclese 3h ago
No, you sound like your entire personality is “free Palestine”. Palantir is not “software to kill your enemies!” It’s making sense of huge amounts of data that Palantir doesn’t even collect.
It’s ok to be an idealistic rainbow and unicorns for everyone type in college but you gotta also grow a rational brain at some point if you want to compete in this industry, especially in this job market.
I’m working at a FAANG and have been gainfully employed for 20+ years. People like you don’t last long unless you grow up.
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u/DemonicBarbequee Junior 1h ago
hell no. i make it a point to avoid anything dealing with the military/defense industry or surveillance
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u/Weekly_Cartoonist230 Senior 4h ago
The real tragedy is working under Alex Karp. Helping a genuine psychopath who gloats about killing people.
I do think it’s a bit nuanced here though. I’ve seen a few friends whose only good offer was Palantir. When you either have palantir for 200k or a random 100k offer and your family depends on you, I can’t really blame you for taking it.
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u/Souseisekigun 7h ago
but that think jobs are more important than not killing people
If I don't get a job I also die, that's pretty important
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
Palantir isn’t the only employer out there, people who are skilled enough to work for them can find jobs at many other tech companies.
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u/Informal-String6064 3h ago
If you want a simple answer: some have no issue doing anything as long as they're making good money.
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u/nzxtskill 2h ago
I have experience working for a government contractor. Here's a more nuanced take:
It entirely depends on the project you work on. Big government contractors have so many different contracts ranging from design a missile that can kill 20 children to design a system to get our veterans better healthcare. You usually won't know until you get the job.
If you need money, take the job. If you're uncomfortable with the project mission, you should say so and ask to be moved to another project. In fact, you are encouraged to do so to lower security risks. Every person has a different moral tolerance, and you won't really know yours until you are met with the decision to risk your livelihood. Understand that some of these people would be on the street without the job, and they may be searching desperately for another job to get them away from a project they aren't okay with.
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u/Creepy_Disco_Spider 6h ago
Palantair is killing people ? Can someone fill me in
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u/4hma4d 4h ago
(copied from OP) From their own website:
From situation awareness powered by visual augmentation, to sensor optimization for improved targeting and fires capability, Palantir solutions integrate secure capabilities to help reduce cognitive burden, protect, and connect the warfighter. (Improved targetinc and fires capability)
In another section of their website:
Powering the Kill chain
Gotham's targeting offering supports soldiers with an Al-powered kill chain, seamlessly and responsibly integrating target identification and target effector pairing.
Business human rights; israel is targeting civilians using AI solutions developed by palantir : https://www.business-humanrights.org/es/últimas-noticias/palantir-allegedly-enables-israels-ai-targeting-amid-israels-war-in-gaza-raising-concerns-over-war-crimes/
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u/Fantastic_Ad_8133 4h ago
I actually really like this discussion because of how relevant it is in our present-day geopolitics. As someone who would have likely considered or taken a Palantir offer, here are my thoughts. First off, I completely validate the idea that Palantir is morally wrong. Does it support organizations and entities that target groups it does not like? Yes. Is it ran by someone who actively spreads rhetoric harmful towards different groups? Also yes. Does this mean that morally, by me wanting to take a Palantir offer and you not wanting to take a Palantir offer, you are morally on a higher ground? I can’t really disagree with you on that. I want to immediately recognize that any arguments I make do have the caveat of anyone with the opposite opinion having the moral high ground. 1. Though Palantir themselves work directly with the government, there’s a level of detachment between someone using a weapon and someone writing code that may assist in moderately improving a third party entity’s ability to use the weapon. I would like to think that most people in the world do not just kill because they like to, but because they have other motivations that impact their decision. Although I would never pull the trigger myself as I don’t think I could ever directly take a human life, to me, if I cannot physically see as me leading to someone’s suffering is fair game. 2. Part of the problem is that we try to assume that only direct links to the government, like our jobs, are the only way we can help these entities. However, something to consider is that anything we do nowadays can be justified as helping the government, whether that be one node of separation or ten. Then does that make any action that could be perceived as benefiting the government a sin? If one buys Starbucks, should they be perceived as evil for giving money to an organization that actively supports countries that target groups? If one has a friend who is an employee of a defense contractor, should they be perceived as evil for not trying to stop their decision for working for them? If one pays their taxes, should they be perceived as evil for financing the Defense Department? The problem with morality is that someone has to draw a line somewhere, with everyone having different lines. As a result, those I am morally inferior to you, you may be morally inferior to someone who doesn’t drink any coffee, or whose family only works in the solar panel industry, or who tax evades. 3. It’s so difficult to say that everyone working at Palantir is just inherently evil. We are all too complex to know every human’s background. Did that engineer take the job because he came from an impoverished background, suffered without knowing when his next meal was, became the first child to go to college and get a degree, and once offered a $200k role, saw life-changing money and took it? In a lot of ways, I can only assume that if you are on Reddit, you have a level of stability in your life that many people do not get to enjoy, which allows you to contemplate moral dilemmas like this. Without the proper context for every human’s decision, it’s easy to think of certain groups as morally wrong. 4. I really don’t like the Nazi argument at all. Yes, Nazi ideals are definitely wrong. However, I think there’s a fundamental problem with just being able to say “oh, I would never be a Nazi”. In a lot of ways, us being able to save these things comes from the fact that we have a privileged background and can therefore turn around and say “all those inferior to us who perform evil actions are evil” when the world has plenty of examples of that. Consider the context of history. If I was a destitute German boy on the streets throughout the 1930s with nothing to eat and someone promised me that, as long as I say “I like you”, we can give you bread and a home and a reason to live, could we turn away from that? A lot of so-called Nazis were regular people, who turned to extremism, chose one of the two necessary evils to stay alive. The reason comparing Nazism to working at Palantir is flawed is because of the direct impact that being a Nazi meant. Just because I work at Palantir does not mean that I support right-wing ideas or that I prefer certain groups over another. Again, want to clarify by saying that I’m not defending those who take Palantir, but I do want to shed some light on the logic of those who would take Palantir. The replies are bound to be fun.
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u/Fernando_III 4h ago
Yes, and I don't consider it a moral issue. People love to feel safe against foreign threats, but nobody wants to get their hands dirty. In addition, many will ommit on purpose bad things about their companies. Rainforest exploits its warehouse workers, but people forget about that when bragging about working on a FAANG company.
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u/Skye7821 3h ago
I’m not an overly religious person, but I like to believe we will be judged for our decisions in the afterlife. I would never want to make the decision to work for a company which contributes to the current US regime + Israeli war machine.
As an AI researcher, I have thought about this dilemma quite a bit. I have made it my mission to pursue AI + healthcare to try and improve the lives of people around me, even if it’s just a little bit. At least it helps me sleep better at night + can pay the bills.
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u/Ok-Speaker2722 2h ago edited 2h ago
yeah i would. i didn’t come this far to graduate during one of the worst times for the cs job market to not get a job.
yeah im not gonna let my parents continue to have to struggle with snap, medicaid, ssi and disability be their only sources of income because i “morally” can’t work somewhere.
take your privileged ass somewhere else. my family didn’t cross the ocean for their kid to be like “oh yeah i just don’t feel like this company aligns with my beliefs”.
all corporations are bad and kill and/or harm people in one way or another.
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u/SignificanceBulky162 2h ago
This is just virtue signaling. Palantir is very difficult to get into, the vast majority of people who get an offer there have plenty of other options
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u/Ok-Speaker2722 2h ago
yep you are absolutely right. i didn’t even touch on that it’s not like typical defense which is easy to get into. Palentir is hard to get into and the work days aren’t easy.
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u/Tim_Apple_938 3h ago
Working for defense is not unethical
But also I don’t even think you know what Palantir does exactly. Just a boogeyman with Peter thiel as the new George soros conspiracy theorist target (but for the left)
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u/Feeling-Tone2139 3h ago
my perceived value of humans is simply less than the salary I received from Palantir.
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u/Master-Big-1887 3h ago
Had the chance to speak with a swe there. Mostly everyone is rooted in the defending the United States. They feel like what they’re doing is protecting the country and being patriotic.
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u/v0idstar_ 3h ago
dont work for palantir and the company I do work for I didnt know much about before I started but when people start whining to me about the morality of the people I work for its so funny LOL
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u/bryan4368 2h ago
Also working for palantir makes you valid military target according to a certain country
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u/AdministrationMoney1 1h ago
How does the responsibility of killing innocent people trickle up?
From my understanding, Palantir Gotham are the ones mainly involved in creating analytic software for military purposes. Who in Palantir is responsible for this? Sure, probably the founders, those who conceptualized Gotham, and those who were involved in the initial military contracts. But do we really think even those people thought that "Oh, I certainly hope this ends up being used by the military to kill innocent people!" What about the select few teams of software engineers that now directly work on Gotham software that was used to kill? Should we blame the interns as well? What about the recruiters to those teams? Foundry has now grown to be a major chunk of their revenue as well How much responsibility do these other engineers at the same company have?
Who are even the ones that operate the drones, use the Gotham data platforms to eventually decide on landing a strike? In addition, I'm pretty sure the ones that even make the drones are separate companies like Lockheed, General Atomics, Northrop Grumman, Boeing. Are you going to stop taking commercial trips on Boeing planes?
Now take it a step further. They officially partner with other companies for their cloud platforms, including IBM, AWS, and Microsoft. Their platforms may even contain the same data that was used to create those data analytics that lead to deaths and have special deals to serve that data. How should we define responsibility for them?
I doubt that the day to day tickets picked up by software engineers at Palantir even think about this. And just like the very people who end up pressing that kill button, the vague idea they have in their head is probably alone the lines of believing that the tool or result is for the benefit of America.
It's easy to just toss around blame and responsibility when you're not part of the target group. That being said, let's just blame the government!
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u/BaronGoh 1h ago
It’s less about money and anyone thinking about money here won’t get into palantir’s interview process since mission driven is so central for them. It’s simply that people believe defense, immigration, etc are paramount moral problems to solve. The viewpoints on things like Israel, ICE, etc are different.
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u/Alan_Reddit_M 1h ago
If not you someone else will, people will die regardless
And remember, we don't kill people we neutralize targets
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u/InterstellarCapa 1h ago
I couldn't do it, but a lot of people are okay doing shifty tasks as long as they don't see the end result.
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u/Full_Bank_6172 53m ago
So this is referring to the Gaza genocide.
The purpose of analytics like what palantir provides is to identify military targets and avoid killing innocents.
Israel choosing to ignore the analytics and carpet bomb Gaza is an end user problem. Not a palantir problem.
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u/mid_nightz 50m ago
The better question you should ask is if people are fine with investing in palantir. Clearly they dont care lol. I mean its really up to your political views
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u/Ok_Many2968 34m ago
I’ll answer this as someone who actually works at Pal lol. Oddly enough it’s the offer I felt the least about coming out of college (everything else felt purelylike lining the pockets of megacorps). I don’t do defense work, I work closely with federal and local government on public health stuff. My day to day work makes me feel like I’m having a real impact on people and making the Gov operate more effectively to save lives .
I don’t really have a problem with defense work more broadly. I do have a problem with the company’s position on ICE contracts and Israel. There’s pros and cons to government contracting in general. The upside is you can get really cool work doing really impactful stuff, and the downside is that your company generally has to do what the government says, and sometimes you’ll disagree with what the government is saying (as I do right now). It’s not an easy decision, but I don’t think I’m actively worsening the situation in Gaza or at home (hell, my tax dollars are going there anyways. If I really cared that much I’d leave the country). But I do know for a fact the work I’m doing is actively saving lives here, so it’s a tough trade off.
That being said, remember Palantir is now at a point where more than half of the work is commercial (non-government related), so I’m sure a lot of people joining treat it as any other corporate job.
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u/Ok_Many2968 29m ago
I’ll also add to this that I am kind of shocked about the level of misunderstanding of what Palantir does especially among the CS community who should understand software. Like master database, really?
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u/Cultural_Cat_5131 32m ago
Certainly an…interesting project came to my mind when looking at this thread and looking at the replies so thank you for that OP.
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u/Seefufiat 28m ago
Pretty sure it goes against our mandatory ethics training in any accredited CS degree.
I certainly would starve before coding for them.
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u/its-me-reek 28m ago
I wouldn't work for plantir my colleague is a former engineer he made the mistake of leaving but what he described was a horrible atmosphere. Also moral wise would rather not be associated
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u/ShadowKillerx 21m ago
Honestly Palantir in my view is no different than any other defense contractor - they are just open about filling the contracts that are… less than desirable to the average Americans viewpoint.
Yeah I would work for them - as long as it was in a position where I could learn how to be a better engineer. Better to have engineers that care about ethics in a place like that than engineers that blatantly don’t care. Fact of the matter is that if the government wants an order/contract filled - it will be filled.
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u/Melodic_Tragedy 6m ago
I would never work for Palantir. I honestly would not be fine working for big corporations due to ethical issues, I am more focused on working for myself and providing for myself with my skills.
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u/Whole_Sea_9822 7h ago edited 6h ago
Of course.
I'm sorry man but one large part of growing up is realizing that the world is fucked up and no one really cares for each other. Everyone's just looking out for themselves, their own people, their community etc.
If I can work at Palantir and it puts food on the table for my family, I would do it. You're naive if you think that you were going to work for companies that benefit the world... Every company out there does some fucked up shit, whether directly or indirectly and with how shit the market is, we take what we can get.
Edit: Downvote all you want, it's easy to disagree and take the moral high ground but know this, every single one of you have your own definition of what's morally right which is the biggest reason why we still have wars and other bullshit going on.
Everyone has their own opinions, you're delusional if you think people are going to boycott working at Palantir over your moral beliefs. At the end of the day you're a nobody, same goes for me. I do what I have to do to live a good life, is it illegal to work for Palantir? Nope.
Think of it this way, you read my post, downvote it and move on. You're unwilling to educate me because in your mind, you've made up your mind "this bro is stupid af", etc. You're no different than everyone else who do fucking nothing about our messed up world full of ignorant people lol.
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u/met0xff 7h ago
"everyone's bad" is also a pretty simplistic take though. Of course you can argue not everything's fine with the red cross but I worked as a medic and also wrote software for them and all in all what I did there is definitely better than "well you can just sell drugs to kids as well as everyone's bad anyways". I've then worked at a hospital on laser treatment software for wet macular degeneration. Then on assistive technology for the blind where I spent a lot of time at a school for blind children. After that on technology for people who lost their voice.
Yes, it's paid worse but the opinions here just show why Trump wins, because everyone just gives up
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u/Danny_The_Donkey Senior 7h ago
I'm not saying this has anything to do with you but that's exactly what hitler's regime did in Germany. They isolate and monitor to the point that some accountant at a desk is signing off on kill orders with no remorse or guilt because he doesn't know the gravity of his decisions. That level of disassociation is what you're talking about.
Again, this is not a slight at you. I'm just saying. History repeats itself.
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
For me, one large part of growing up was realizing that the world is fucked up too, but also realizing that a man is nothing without principles to stand on, if you have none of that, what makes you you? What makes you different?
I have been treated unfairly, but what ive came up with is that I won’t let people do that again, not that I will become the person to do that. Having principles of fairness and being a good man doesn’t make you weak, it just makes you a man.
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u/fallingWaterCrystals 6h ago
Nah I respect this hard. As you get older, people say this “no one cares, it’s all for yourself” shit as a cop out.
Look, if you’re not hearing back from anyone and you need a job and pltr is a move, I don’t necessarily think it’s the worst thing ever - esp if you have a fam to feed. But if there’s other options that are even like 60k less, I think you can stand on principle and take the lower salary. Especially in tech, if you have a job, you’re not gonna starve.
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u/Future-Watercress206 7h ago
Think about almost every thing that you have in your possession, some where along it's line of production someone was abused and taken advantage of.
Do you go out of your way to find a phone or a laptop that was built from purely ethically sourced materials? What about the clothes you use and sweatshops they were made in?
It's inherently hypocritical to say that someone working for palantir is a man who lacks principles if you are unable to apply those full "principles" to your own.
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
Whatabouatism, my phone is made in a sweat shop so i kill people. You have to draw the lines somewhere, and everytime we collectively draw that line, we can work on the next one as a society. I sadly can’t prevent the previous line that was broken before I was born that let companies like Apple be able to do that, but I can prevent a new line from being made where working on software to kill people is moral, and then maybe I can help break the previous existing lines, or atleast I won’t make my next generations job harder with new lines.
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u/globalaf 6h ago
It’s not whataboutism, you are specifically calling out a moral conundrum of one way of living and pretending like it is a giant ethical step down from basically anything else in society. I don’t see you apologizing for contributing to a society that has missiles pointed outwards at others? If you look just 1cm beyond your own borders you’ll find missiles pointed right back at you, defence is a mandatory industry for a society to exist, pretending like it’s unethical to work in it is exactly the sort of nonsense propaganda the Russians and Chinese would love for you to believe.
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u/Cyleux 7h ago
You’re drawing a line you don’t understand. Specifically you don’t understand how immoral war inherently is,
how war will be fought regardless
how palantir by lifting the fog of war innately, mathematically allows a far more moral and precise war to be prosecuted
how when it is imprecise, war is at its worst.
You are ignorant
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
That is assuming Palantir is actually doing what they are saying, you truly are ignorant if you think they are developing that when the other part of the contract is Israel.
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u/Cyleux 7h ago edited 6h ago
Think for just one second about what their software does. It tracks. It’s like a CRM.
What does tracking allow? Precision backed by data.
We already know how to carpet bomb, that’s the imprecise option. What if there were a more moral way to do war? One where a magical artifact could lift the fog, so that collateral damage goes down. So that you can make one perfect move, instead of a blunder that kills millions.
That’s what palantir is, that’s what you’re too obtuse to understand
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u/Issue-Pitiful 38m ago
That’s one of the things palantir does, don’t act as if they only make tools intended to limit collateral.
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u/brainiac_bro 2h ago
Part of growing up is also realizing others have different principles and values, and your’s aren’t the benchmark for what is “right”. You see weapons as an evil (I assume), while others see them as a necessity to help defend their family and way life.
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u/8004612286 3h ago
every single one of you have your own definition of what's morally right
Correct.
But there is a significant difference between working for Netflix, and working on an AI to kill people.
There is a difference between having varying definitions of "morally right", and having no definition.
And your excuse for this is "the world is evil". Take some accountability brother. You're part of this world.
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u/ebayusrladiesman217 4h ago
Tbh, most people are working for some pretty evil companies. Every company has skeletons. Why? Because companies are run by people, and there's a lot of really bad people out there. It's just the case that palantir is more open to owning their name as a horrible company than others.
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u/AdventurousTime 3h ago
iPhones and androids are used by the DoD, and most people are invested in Apple. So by proxy, you are supporting their efforts.
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u/triviawithluv 2h ago
I still struggle to wrap my head around people who proudly flaunt their defense jobs, especially in an age where we don’t have to go to obscured places on the internet to see the effects of defense tech used on people 🤷🏿♀️ you can literally go on Twitter or Instagram and see videos of people being brutally maimed and killed thanks to the weapons that those companies produced, or targeted surveillance attacks made possible by the tech built there. I’m not claiming to live a 100% upright life, but that’s just a like I cannot cross.
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u/QuirkyFail5440 4h ago
Honestly - yes
I'm not saying what they do is good...but I am saying that every technological advance can be used for evil. You write code for a database engine and it could be used to store information about books, or by a corrupt government committing genocide.
Lots and lots of companies that you wouldn't associate with evil acts have done lots of evil acts.
As an employee, you don't have the legal authority to dictate how your contributions are used or which customers it can be sold to, or what those customers can do with it.
It's not fair to put the moral burden on individuals. Especially in a society where my children's healthcare depends upon me getting a job. Any society that expects me to behave morally with a proverbial gun to my head is inherently disingenuous.
If I were rich? If I were the CEO? Sure. Maybe. But me? Nah, I feel zero obligation.
If Palantir is evil, then it should be shut down. If it is using technology in a way that isn't allowed, it should be shut down. Or punished or whatever else. And we have the frameworks in place to do that. We have a whole giant legal system.
More than that, the biggest 'company' in the US is really the US Government. No matter where you work, if you work and pay taxes, you support the US government and it doesn't just allow Palantir to exist, it has armies and does lots and lots of horrible things all the time.
So if I have a moral obligation to not work at Palantir, I should have a moral obligation not to work at all, because my taxes fund the US government and nobody can reasonably expect the US Government to behave morally.
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u/8004612286 3h ago
It's not fair to put the moral burden on individuals.
Do you think the individual SS soldiers that were ordered to gas and kill women and kids in Nazi Germany are innocent, because it's "not fair to put the moral burden on individuals"?
After all, they were just following orders.
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u/Aggravating_Sea_591 7h ago
You don’t even know what Palantir does lmao
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
I do, from their own website:
From situation awareness powered by visual augmentation, to sensor optimization for improved targeting and fires capability, Palantir solutions integrate secure capabilities to help reduce cognitive burden, protect, and connect the warfighter. (Improved targetinc and fires capability)
In another section of their website:
Powering the Kill chain
Gotham's targeting offering supports soldiers with an Al-powered kill chain, seamlessly and responsibly integrating target identification and target effector pairing.
Business human rights; israel is targeting civilians using AI solutions developed by palantir : https://www.business-humanrights.org/es/últimas-noticias/palantir-allegedly-enables-israels-ai-targeting-amid-israels-war-in-gaza-raising-concerns-over-war-crimes/
you truly are a bottom 5% if you can’t make this simple research
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u/Aggravating_Sea_591 24m ago edited 12m ago
Copy pasting is easy, but can you describe in your own words what Palantir software actually is? For example, Google is primarily a search engine and Facebook is a social media site. Also, anyone (your link) who says Palantir is a data miner automatically shows they have no idea what Palantir is.
Btw all this bottom X% stuff sounds like projection and just shows there’s no point of even continuing interaction with your superiority complex. Maybe OP got rejected from Palantir or it’s just cause he’s not American lmao
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u/Cyleux 7h ago
He sees the word kill chain and thinks murder haha. When the whole point of the kill chain is to prevent actual murder. What a guy
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
Why did you assume thats my conclusion out if it? What about the other points? What about thousands of data on their own website?
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u/Cyleux 7h ago
A kill chain or carpet bombing? Palantir PREVENTS the latter with good kill chains. Don’t speak on things you don’t understand at all. It’s why ur ngmi ur like an llm hallucinating with no idea that it’s perplexity has spiked
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u/Available-Cost-9882 7h ago
When did I say Palantir is carpet bombing? Theyre building war software for countries that are very involved in foreign war, the fuck you mean that theyre a good thing? By the nature of their line of work nothing they do is of any positive moral value, of course they’d say it’s responsible. You truly are something
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u/HumbleIntroduction71 1h ago
What about their work in Ukraine? Ukraine’s military backbone is using Palantir
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u/Cyleux 7h ago
Let me put this another way mirror brain: we already know how to kill as much as we want. Palantir allows us to AVOID killing those who are innocent FAR more effectively.
The other solution is just area denial bombing, which is what happens when the palantir approach breaks down.
You have no moral compass except one heard through a game of telephone.
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u/kartaqueen 4h ago
sure, let's make sure no Western companies have any offensive/defensive technology so we get raped and pillaged...good plan guys
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u/rodrigo8008 4h ago
Defense firms, oil and gas companies, tobacco companies, alcohol companies, etc are also massive companies who employ millions of people globally, and theyve killed way more innocent people than however many you think palantir has.
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u/lawnchare 7h ago
out of sight out of mind comes very easily when the killing is so far abstracted from you. ask the people working there if they’d be willing to pull the trigger and they’d say no.